TeX, LaTeX and Friends

Joseph Wright

6:47 AM

TeX Live 2022 binaries available

3

Skillmon

7:06 AM

@cis I wrote expkv and friends, which are way too young to be in any of those packages. AFAIK, only one package that isn't written by myself uses expkv.

Joseph Wright

7:28 AM

Hmm, HiTeX doesn't seem to be properly set up at the moment

Faheem Mitha

The name HiTeX just cries out for terrible jokes.

Which I shall refrain from attempting.

Skillmon

@FaheemMitha the question is, is it high tech, or do you great TeX?

Faheem Mitha

7:46 AM

@Skillmon great TeX?

Skillmon

@FaheemMitha s/great/greet

Faheem Mitha

@Skillmon Ah yes, greet.

David Carlisle

8:06 AM

@Skillmon I could give you a hint

@PauloCereda [ 1/30, ??:??/??:??] update: arara [12485k] (61370 -> 62256) ... done didn't survive a day without needing an update? :-)

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle but there is no hint viewer for Linux yet, afaik.

David Carlisle

@Skillmon it was just a silly comment offering non-help with your question

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright I seem to have no format instructions either. What do they want as name? hitex / hilatex?

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer That was my guess

David Carlisle

@JosephWright tlmgr: cannot find depending packagehitex.x86_64-cygwin

Joseph Wright

8:15 AM

@DavidCarlisle Er, didn't get that one

joseph@palladium l3kernel % hitex
This is HiTeX, Version 3.141592653, HINT version 1.4 (preloaded format=hitex)
**\relax

kpathsea: Running mktexfmt hitex
mktexfmt: mktexfmt is using the following fmtutil.cnf files (in precedence order):
mktexfmt:   /usr/local/texlive/2022/texmf-dist/web2c/fmtutil.cnf
mktexfmt: mktexfmt is using the following fmtutil.cnf file for writing changes:
mktexfmt:   /Users/joseph/Library/texlive/2022/texmf-config/web2c/fmtutil.cnf
mktexfmt [INFO]: writing formats under /Users/joseph/Library/texlive/2022/texmf-var/web2c

David Carlisle

@JosephWright you probably were not expecting to get cygwin binaries

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle That is true

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Of more immediate interest, (u)pTeX seems to have changed handling of Unicode chars

David Carlisle

@JosephWright oops?

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright oh, do they handle them now "normally"?

@JosephWright I can't find ini-files either, so I guess they still have to do some work here.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer I seem to need to remove quite a few of the .uptex.tlg files, but I wonder if that also means we need to change some of the macros that 'opt out' for upTeX

Paulo Cereda

8:25 AM

[ 1/16, ??:??/??:??] update: arara [12485k] (61370 -> 62257) ...

@DavidCarlisle ^^ oh no

@DavidCarlisle ooh :)

@DavidCarlisle we didn't have much for this year's release, so a gentle dependency bump would cover that. :)

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright hm, my only example in pdfresources still errors in the same way. What did they change?

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda [ 100001/1000000001, ??:??/??:??] update: breakfast [12485k] (61370 -> 62257) ...

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

hmmm a breakfast package

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda only two easybook updates today at ctan.org/incoming

2

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh

@Rmano you got mail :)

Joseph Wright

9:01 AM

@UlrikeFischer I'm not 100% sure yet

Rmano

@PauloCereda thanks! Answered!

daleif

9:46 AM

Hmm, interesting, just answered a question where the source of the problem seems to be that \normalsize was never executed in the preamble, and thus any subsequent package that set up lengths using em units, would all end up being zero.

0

Q: Booktabs table lines not showing

I am using a conference template (see https://sice.jp/siceac/sice2022/01.html) to write my paper. When creating tables with the Booktabs package, all lines in the table are not showing. Plain tables work fine. Could anyone help me out here? The packages I included: \usepackage{multirow,makecell,b...

David Carlisle

hmm texdoc clsguide only says a class must define \normalsize not that it execute it. (not excuting it avoids loading fonts you are npt going to use if th font families are changed in the preamble) so booktabs is at fault here, it ought to guard against 1em=0pt and if so set those lengths in pt values as if 1em=10pt

@daleif ^^

or it could set them \atbegindocumnt, after the fonts have been set up

samcarter

@PauloCereda Yesterday, a TV documentary mentioned that there is a tiny settlement called Brazil in northern Germany en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6nberg,_Pl%C3%B6n It has something like 19 inhabitants :)

daleif

10:03 AM

@DavidCarlisle hmm, good point. I've just never seen a single class not load \normalsize before. Plus it loads some packages I haven't seen before: rawfonts and oldlfont

David Carlisle

@daleif oh wow roll on 1992 :-)

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh

Joseph Wright

10:30 AM

@Skillmon github.com/latex3/latex3/pull/1060 might be of interest

cis

10:43 AM

I'm so mainstream (ehhh?) that I only know pgfkeys.
I could imagine Ulrike creating a new edition of the "skaks stuff" with pgf.
As long as she does that. Although in her case...

Ulrike Fischer

@cis if I ever find time to rewrite this I will use expl3 and l3keys.

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer :)

@UlrikeFischer And l3draw?

cis

@UlrikeFischer Ah yes, I understand. I think flexibility is important. That if I want e.g. "black figurines" for my particular application; that I don't have to rape the whole package.

Ulrike Fischer

@JosephWright well here I only care about the user interface. Which means lots of nodes so that people can draw with whatever they want.

@cis black figures only need a correct font setup and will then work directly out of the box. That is not related to tikz or the keyval system.

Paulo Cereda

11:00 AM

Can someone with an updated TL test if arara works in the terminal?

$ arara --version

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda works fine on windows:

C:\Users\Nililand2020\Documents\Tests>arara --version
Picked up JAVA_TOOL_OPTIONS: "-Dfile.encoding=UTF8"
  __ _ _ __ __ _ _ __ __ _
 / _` | '__/ _` | '__/ _` |
| (_| | | | (_| | | | (_| |
 \__,_|_|  \__,_|_|  \__,_|

arara 6.1.6
Copyright (c) 2022, Island of TeX

Paulo Cereda

@UlrikeFischer Thanks! It failed for me in my workstation, but in this computer it worked flawlessly. I am trying with my laptop now...

daleif

hmm, I would have sworn that I haven't installed java on my Linux box

Paulo Cereda

@daleif oopsie. :) Thanks for trying <3

Marcel Krüger

@PauloCereda arara works for me both in TeX Live 2021 and 2022 on Linux.

Paulo Cereda

11:07 AM

@MarcelKrüger phew, thanks for confirming! I was afraid the last update had some exec problems...

daleif

@PauloCereda The opposite (I can run arara on my, would have sworn that I couldn't as I never want java on my system)

Paulo Cereda

@daleif ooh Java got in :)

daleif

@PauloCereda I need to purge my system

Paulo Cereda

@daleif oh no

daleif

Interesting, I get an error on arara after updaring

arara --version
bash: /opt/texlive/current/bin/x86_64-linux/arara: Permission denied

cis

11:10 AM

I meant in the automatic chess annotation (lan, san, ....) that one can also have black figurines there. You said that was unusual. I mean I've definitely seen that before.

Wow, I would like to write a converter that can output all sorts of different chess annotations, depending on ones choice.

See here: "Chess notation examples" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_notation#Notation_systems_for_humans

Just for the fun of it.
But I'm not good enough. I can't write whole packages.

Paulo Cereda

@daleif You got the same error I got in two machines out of three!

I might need to write to Karl.

daleif

But this works

bash /opt/texlive/current/texmf-dist/scripts/arara/arara.sh

Paulo Cereda

I need to write to Karl :)

daleif

Ahh, no, isn't it just missing exec rights?

It does. Running chmod 755 /opt/texlive/current/texmf-dist/scripts/arara/arara.sh and then it works just fine.

Ulrike Fischer

@cis sure it is unusual, but it is not difficult, not more than typesetting some chars in bold or italic. You only need a font which supports bold and italic and then need to use \textbf or \bfseries.

David Carlisle

11:19 AM

$ arara --version
  __ _ _ __ __ _ _ __ __ _
 / _` | '__/ _` | '__/ _` |
| (_| | | | (_| | | | (_| |
 \__,_|_|  \__,_|_|  \__,_|

arara 6.1.6

@PauloCereda ^

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh Cygwin?

Marcel Krüger

@PauloCereda Odd that this isn't happening more consistently. I just updated my mirror and got a arara update, but even after the update to 6.1.6 arara.sh was still executable on my system.

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda yes but not sure if it's actually updated, most of the binaries are not there yet

cis

Look, I would (if I could, which I can't) program it something like this:

figurines=true|false % sets only white annotation figurines (usual)

figurines*=true|false % sets white annotation figurines at white moves, black annotation figurines at black moves

Paulo Cereda

@MarcelKrüger same with my machine! I wrote to Karl, let's see what he says. :)

cis

11:23 AM

@UlrikeFischer Are you happy that I'm showing such great interest in your chess packages? Hehe... :)

Joseph Wright

@UlrikeFischer :)

Ulrike Fischer

@cis no I'm not. As I already wrote a number of time I have other things to do, and would greatly prefer if your interest would lead you to read the documentation and the code and develop solutions yourself instead of trying to push me to do it.

8

mickep

What is the biggest change in TeXLive 2022?

samcarter

@mickep the 1 became a 2 :P

David Carlisle

11:53 AM

@mickep hitex ? (but whether that will still be a thing come 2023 we will have to see)

mickep

Oh, I see.

gusbrs

@PauloCereda As @daleif, I also get bash: /usr/local/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara: Permission denied

Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs Thanks for confirming! I can reproduce on all my machines by tlmgr install arara --reinstall . Looks like Karl might've missed a chmod +x arara.sh . :)

gusbrs

@PauloCereda Just reporting as well. :) But, if that was the case wouldn't the problem be affecting everyone who got the latest update? How come it works for some/most people?

Paulo Cereda

12:08 PM

@gusbrs Computer Science is witchcraft. :)

2

daleif

@gusbrs what does ls -l -H /usr/local/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara give?

cis

I basically only have one problem left (I guess you know which one: "movement history").
But I'm afraid that that doesn't work with the package functions or that it doesn't work in an elementary way.
And I can't solve this myself (even if I read the manual 5 times or more).

gusbrs

@PauloCereda That must be it! :-) Of course, there are also the people who do not need system permission. ;)

Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs @daleif interestingly enough, for some, arara is a symlink to arara.sh. For others (it happened in a machine of mine) arara was the actual arara.sh in desguise!

gusbrs

@daleif Probably as you presume:

-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 576 Feb 27 10:58 /usr/local/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara

Ulrike Fischer

12:11 PM

@cis simply wander through the game info and collect the data to create a key list and then use it.

gusbrs

@PauloCereda For me it is a symlink.

cis

@UlrikeFischer Sounds logical, but I don't know how to start there. I tried various things (I guess you saw it ;) )

Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs in 2/3 machines of mine as well. :)

paulo at ravenna in ~
➜ file /opt/paulo/applications/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara
/opt/paulo/applications/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable

gusbrs

6 mins ago, by Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs Computer Science is witchcraft. :)

Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs this :)

samcarter

12:15 PM

@PauloCereda symlink also on mac

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter ooh

paulo at ravenna in ~
➜ file /opt/paulo/applications/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara
/opt/paulo/applications/texlive/2021/bin/x86_64-linux/arara: POSIX shell script, ASCII text executable

paulo at ravenna in ~
➜ tlmgr install --reinstall arara
tlmgr: package repository ctan.dcc.uchile.cl/systems/texlive/tlnet (verified)
[1/2, ??:??/??:??] reinstall: arara.x86_64-linux [1k]
[2/2, 00:01/10:37:56] reinstall: arara [12485k]
running mktexlsr ...
done running mktexlsr.
running mtxrun --generate ...

@gusbrs @daleif ^^ :)

gusbrs

@PauloCereda :) Who needs Harry Potter?!...

daleif

@PauloCereda that is why I added the -H, it gives us the result of the symlinked file (had to look it up)

Paulo Cereda

@gusbrs Yep. :) When you have some time: youtube.com/watch?v=AaZ_RSt0KP8

@daleif yup, thanks :)

gusbrs

@PauloCereda will do, thanks. But, for the gist of it, I could probably add some more examples to it from my own computer. ;)

Paulo Cereda

12:24 PM

@gusbrs haha

David Carlisle

2:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle and then there were three

Alan Munn

2:15 PM

@gusbrs Did you delete the answer on the linguex referencing because it didn't work? It seemed like a reasonable answer to me.

Joseph Wright

2:38 PM

@DavidCarlisle I hope you are thinking about templates, now we have keyvals sorted ;)

David Carlisle

@JosephWright er... github.com/w3c/mathml/pull/269 (not to mention the day job)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle I guess I have to let you off this time ;) I'll get @egreg on it :)

gusbrs

@AlanMunn Still worried about this? :) But no, I deleted because you asked me to clean the comment thread below it and, as I had stated, I was no longer willing to engage with the OP, which would be required to clean just the comments. But it's done, it's gone. And there was nothing special in the answer either, so it should not be of particular concern. So please be at ease.

Alan Munn

@gusbrs I understand why you got annoyed at the interaction, but deleting a perfectly good answer because of that seems a bit petty, honestly.

gusbrs

2:54 PM

@AlanMunn I'm sorry if it seems so to you. And I fail to understand why you're so concerned with this. But, if you'd like, I can undelete it. What I won't do, is engage the OP again and, at this point, I won't touch just the comments either.

Alan Munn

@gusbrs As I said earlier, I am generally interested in linguistics related questions because I tend to answer lots of them, since I know the main linguistics packages well. And I'm interested in the general 'health' of the site, so seeing good answers deleted doesn't seem in its best interest, nor do acrimonious comment threads. That's all.

Paulo Cereda

Note to self: create a sillynguistics package. :)

3

gusbrs

@AlanMunn Oh, I certainly get why you are interested in linguistics and related packages. But that particular answer was a completely trivial cleveref setup. I also don't find the comment thread much "off-tone", and I actually find it useful that these sort of things stays around, so that people know that other people bother when they do certain things. Still, today you get to choose: "answer and comments" or "no comments but no answer". Which is it gonna be? ;-)

Paulo Cereda

3:10 PM

@AlanMunn suddenly I thought, hey why isn't Alan's name in italics? and where's his diamond? then I realised you weren't elected. Guess you will always be a moderator in heart. :) <3

4

Alan Munn

@gusbrs Oh I wasn't trying you to address the comment issue again. But I do think you should undelete the answer.

@gusbrs Extra bonus: you'll get a 50pt bounty. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda David Carlisle ⋄ Still, some deserving people get that styling.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle ooh

gusbrs

@PauloCereda As you see, he's definitely "on the job" regardless. :)

@AlanMunn I've done so. And, thank you, but please no bounty, there's really no reason for it in such an answer.

Alan Munn

@gusbrs The bounty was added by the OP. :)

gusbrs

3:21 PM

@AlanMunn Oops, I hadn't seen it... I deleted it again, but you have my promise I'll undelete after the bounty expires.

Paulo Cereda

3:40 PM

my bounty lies over the ocean

oh wait, wrong lyrics

gusbrs

@PauloCereda :)

Szabolcs

4:53 PM

I am using biblatex. In some specific cases, I want a citation of the form Foo, Bar et al instead of Foo et al. Is this feasible / easy with biblatex?

Ulrike Fischer

@Szabolcs you can locally change maxnames.

Szabolcs

@UlrikeFischer Thank you. I know that I need to RTFM, but if you can give an answer off-hand, could you kindly give me a hint on which command to use for the local change (as opposed to setting it in the \usepackage)?

Ulrike Fischer

it is a counter. \AtNextCitekey{\defcounter{maxnames}{2}}

Szabolcs

Thank you so much!

Alan Munn

5:09 PM

alrogithm2e redefines \chapter to add extra vertical space in the LoA. Why do package authors not understand that packages should not do this kind of crap. Grrr.

Phelype Oleinik

@AlanMunn Must give them a sense of control :)

Joseph Wright

@AlanMunn Oops

Faheem Mitha

6:08 PM

I was wondering what the popular options are for templating type things in TeX. E.g. one has some data, and one wants to insert it in a TeX template, perhaps with some postprocessing, like calculations. with LuaTeX this is quite easy. But are there packages that do this kind of thing?

TeXnician

6:21 PM

@FaheemMitha ctan.org/pkg/texplate, although it's limited. Otherwise use any language you like with a good templating language (Python for instance has several) and simply process the output after running a script using TeX.

Faheem Mitha

@TeXnician Thank you for the reference.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton ooh twitter.com/rabbitdoingwork/status/1498365252328726533

Faheem Mitha

Typo alert: "By separating more strickly". Pg. 44 of the LuaTeX manual. Can anyone here fix it?

It seems \AddToHook is defined in something called "ltcmdhooks", though maybe I'm wrong there. And if not, where is it defined?

It's used in this answer, tex.stackexchange.com/a/635074/3406 which I'm trying to understand.

Paulo Cereda

6:44 PM

@FaheemMitha have you tried calling texdoc with that name?

Faheem Mitha

@PauloCereda With what name?

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha l t c m d h o o k s

Faheem Mitha

@PauloCereda Yes, it brings up a document.

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha No, \AddToHook is documented in lthooks (texdoc lthooks). ltcmdhooks just adds an extension that allows you to add hooks to commands

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik ooh Peter Pan-esque. :)

We need a croc who ate a clock. :)

Faheem Mitha

6:49 PM

@PhelypeOleinik Ah, I see. Thank you.

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda must... not... hide... jokes... in... the... code...

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik DO IT

@PhelypeOleinik <3

Phelype Oleinik

@PauloCereda You're a bad influence <3

Paulo Cereda

@PhelypeOleinik oh no

samcarter

7:45 PM

@FaheemMitha A colleague of mines loves cookiecutter for all kinds of templates -- have not yet it myself

Faheem Mitha

@samcarter Pardon?

samcarter

@FaheemMitha cookiecutter.readthedocs.io Seems to come from the python community, but apparently one can also do other projects with it

Faheem Mitha

@samcarter Ah, Python.

LuaTeX along with something like YAML is probably a better choice. I just wondered if there were other choices out there.

In the answer tex.stackexchange.com/a/635074/3406 appears the mysterious sentence:

\AddToHook{shipout/lastpage}{\label{LastPage}}% replaces package lastpage

Perhaps this is actually not so mysterious, but I don't understand how the lastpage package works, to start with. Nor how this is supposed to replace it.

Ulrike Fischer

@FaheemMitha the lastpage package sets a label on the last page and most of its code simply tried to ensure that it is on the last page. The hook does the same.

Faheem Mitha

@UlrikeFischer So one doesn't need the package, then?

Ulrike Fischer

7:55 PM

@FaheemMitha no, not longer. The hook code should work fine imho.

Faheem Mitha

@UlrikeFischer OK.

How long has the hook mechanism described in lthooks existed? I think I only started seeing it relatively recently.

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha Since october 2020

Faheem Mitha

@PhelypeOleinik Oh, so quite recently then. How did one do such things before?

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha Depends what things you mean. Some hooks (like \AtBeginDocument) existed before and were just replaced by the new mechanism. Others were provided by etoolbox, and others didn't exist at all

Faheem Mitha

@PhelypeOleinik By "things" I meant hooks, generally.

Phelype Oleinik

8:03 PM

@FaheemMitha Well, yes, lthooks is about hooks :)

Faheem Mitha

So I suppose it was more ad-hoc before.

Joseph Wright

@PhelypeOleinik Rollback fixed?

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha There are several though. Some are old hooks with a new machinery (e.g. the begindocument hook/\AtBeginDocument), some are hooks that were provided by etoolbox (e.g., env/<name>/before/\BeforeBeginEnvironment) or other packages, and other hooks didn't exist (e.g. the cmd hooks)

@JosephWright that would be rm latexrelease.dtx :)

@JosephWright But yes, hopefully

Joseph Wright

@PhelypeOleinik :)

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha Also the big selling point of lthooks is the ability to reorder code in a hook based on rules. That didn't exist before at all

Faheem Mitha

8:10 PM

@PhelypeOleinik I see.

@PhelypeOleinik So, did shipout/lastpage exist before?

Phelype Oleinik

@FaheemMitha You had to load the atenddvi package and use \AtEndDvi

mickep

Do people still use dvi?(!)

David Carlisle

8:26 PM

@FaheemMitha it is defined in latex if you have a current system

@mickep yes

Joseph Wright

@mickep Oh yes

mickep

Oh, I thought it was dead since ~20 years or so.

David Carlisle

@mickep you don't use dviluatex ?? :-)

mickep

@DavidCarlisle No, dviluametatex.

David Carlisle

@mickep pstricks needed dvi (until @MarcelKrüger went and implemented it in Lua so made that comment false) xetex only has dvi (xdv) output, psfrag mostly needs dvi, some people just type "latex" as that's what it says on the tin, and they get dvi whether they wanted it or not.... The japanese (u)ptex engines all make dvi output....

mickep

8:31 PM

@DavidCarlisle Wait, so xetex is not giving pdf? Or is the xdv file automatically being converted to pdf?

Joseph Wright

@mickep The latter

@mickep XeTeX makes .xdv files then calls xdvipdfmx to convert to PDF, unless you stop that with --no-pdf (as we do for example in l3build, as there's a performance hit)

mickep

@DavidCarlisle I remember drawing figures in xfig, getting the labels "correct" with psfrag. You make me sentimental :)

@JosephWright I see, thanks for the info. I live in the pdf bubble.

Joseph Wright

@mickep You don't find yourself on the LaTeX kernel team :)

mickep

@JosephWright There are no teams! :P

Joseph Wright

@mickep Only Zuul?

mickep

8:35 PM

(true, I don't)

There Are No Teams

►

David Carlisle

9:09 PM

@mickep as @JosephWright says it calls xdvipdfmx in th background but architecturally it is really a post process, it has no pdf backend all backend processing drawing, image inclusion happens via \special in the dvi output.

Marcel Krüger

10:57 PM

@mickep I'm guessing that's meant as a joke, but if you know about someone working on that please let me know.

Ulrike Fischer

11:09 PM

5

Happy St. David’s Day

David Carlisle

11:26 PM

@UlrikeFischer everyone should have a day named in their honour, although of course you are an hour early

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