TRPG General Chat - 2022-01-14

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Hot RPG Questions

12:08 AM

2

Q: Where can I find an ability that prevents True Seeing from penetrating a transformation?

Recently, I read a comment or forum post saying that there was an ability, to the best of my recollection it was a feat in a Dragon [Magazine] issue, which would negate true seeing vs. shape changing. I have been unable retrace my steps, and have come up dry in my search of indices. I'd like to f...

dnd-3.5e content-identification shapeshifter disguise

AncientSwordRage

12:22 AM

@V2Blast good edit on the Mobile Feat question

> Mobile Feet Your free zone movement on your turn lets you move one additional zone.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW woop

lol

AncientSwordRage

Drizz't put his bracers of speed on his feet as having his hands too fast threw him off.

> These boots were made for When you use Overcome to move through multiple zones on foot, you can move one zone even if you fail the roll, unless you fail by 3 or more.

> These boots are gonna You can use Athletics to attack prone opponents. When you succeed with style, you may reduce the value of your attack by one to add your Provoke ranks as a weapon value.

AncientSwordRage

12:36 AM

When he was being taught sword fighting his mentor taught him the x-stop, where you catch a blade between your own two swords. Years later Drizz't innovates kicking the person who's sword you caught

I can neither confirm nor disprove that RA. Salvatore has never seen a real sword fight

Kicking them in the nose, IIRC.

AncientSwordRage

@nitsua60 I I thought it was to the chest to push them back? It's been a solid 20 years though so I could be wrong

1:00 AM

I'm having strong flashbacks to the fight with reanimated Zak over the acid pools and Driz'zt using that technique a couple of times to "reawaken" more of his native memories. But it's also been a while for me, so I could easily be misremembering, too =)

AncientSwordRage

@nitsua60 the reanimation bit is the only other bit I remembered

1:24 AM

@AncientSwordRage I think RA learned the Kendo martial art ... but I am not sure where I heard that from

Save Our Souls by The Dice. A demonic heist game. A hack of Stealing the Throne. Steal back your sold soul.

"Jack into a dirty and demonic alternate reality in upcoming RPG Cybermetal 2012" article by Chase Carter for Dicebreaker. Cybermetal 2012 is a lo-fi cyberpunk tabletop RPG full of demons, metal music, hardwire internet and harder drugs.

"Types of Writing Jobs in TTRPGs" video essay by Banana Chan

C Thi Nguyen wrote a twitter thread about why "Wordle is a triumph of social graphic design."

2

AncientSwordRage

@KorvinStarmast Google is not turning anything up

3 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

4:24 AM

9

Q: What would happen when you cast the spell Identify on a Genie Warlock's vessel?

As the title suggests: a Warlock with a pact to a genie in D&D 5e has someone cast identify on their genie's vessel. What information would that person get?

dnd-5e spells warlock

4:35 AM

Transport via plants seems to be the most weird of all teleportation spells.

I really liked the swordmage reactive teleports.

@Joshua Yeah, I feel like that's about when Alan Moore's "Swamp Thing Saga" started looking for sharks to jump.

If "you must have seen the plant before" stacks with scry, it's a reasonably quick way to bring the rest of the party over after starflight.

Well, the Green isn't planet-specific, but the Parliament of Trees is, so I guess it depends on whether you tap into the Green directly or through the Parliament.

Actually that's a very good point. I wonder if circle of the moon would work at all on another planet.

4:50 AM

And of course, Alec Holland's direct access to the Green allowed for blind jumps.

All of which is interesting, because many of the elemental forces seem to be planet-specific except for the Red and the Green (and the Green is sometimes presented as a schism of a planetary unity from which emerged the Green and the Melt), for example the Grey had to physically travel on planetary debris to claim refuge on Earth.

Pretty standard for concepts iterated on by different authors for decades with little interest in fine continuity control, but the emergent mess does provide some fascinating story hooks.

Magratheans put the plan in planet.

Greener had a character in our Weird Stuff campaign whose influence with plants extended through mycelial networks. I don't think she ever used it for travel but it gave her an interesting and powerful range with clearly defined limits.

(No war between the Green and the Grey in that setting, we were drawing on recent studies about mycelial networks acting in symbiosis with forests.)

5:22 AM

I'm going to bed, but I want the record to show that I did NOT type up an answer to this question, because I think it should be closed until OP clarifies what they mean.

EVEN THOUGH, I could have easily typed up a comprehensive answer

-1

Q: Dual Wielding in D&D

How would one dual wield say, a longsword and a dagger? Would one need the Dual-wielding feat? I am extremely confused.

dnd-5e two-weapon-fighting

5:52 AM

I've changed some of my ideas. I still think the Oathbow is the way to do it for that extra 10-ish damage per hit. You already have such a high roll to hit on the Wizard that just stacking more damage is good.

And we have to max out initiative so we get first turn.

1 Very Rare: Oathbow
2 Rares: Gem of Seeing ; Scorpion Armor
3 Uncommons: Lucky Stone; Bracers of Archery; +1 Arrows.

Take Alert and be a Champion Fighter. for +19 to initiative, if I can add.

Wizard portent could still have a 1 and a 20 stocked, which would be annoying but them's the breaks.

now bed for real

6:17 AM

@JoelHarmon too late now, muahaha!

By the way, thanks for everyone taking this seriously. People I know in the non-virtual world keep asking me if I’m joking about translating d&d-magic to modern physics. Even the ones who should know better than to ask that question

6:33 AM

[grin] It's obvious nonsense, D&D mechanics have no actual interest in modelling physical reality, but it can be fun nonsense.

@BardicWizard The Sherlockian Game is when people take a collection of text that was written haphazardly without any thought toward consistency or realism, and they stubbornly treat the text as if it really were documentation of a coherent reality. It's got a strong legacy!

The only way it's really objectionable is if there's no space to step outside the game and admit that it's all in fun, because then there's not much room for safety.

Really? :|

rpg.stackexchange.com/posts/97594/revisions

I feel I should roll that one back.

SoulMuppet Publishing announced on twitter that "To help out during #ZiMo we're offering fulfilment for first time creators at zero cost for the creator."

Aaron Lim shared on twitter some creative Apocalypse-World-style mechanics that blur the line between game and table.

I'm looking at writing up "The Paths Behind the World" as a Fate supplement. What are y'alls' favorite examples of Paths, Waygates, and other ways of moving behind the world?

momatoes wrote a twitter thread about ongoing learning re: community copies and itch.io ranking.

2 hours later…

8:47 AM

Lacuna Apostasy Itchiofunding A sale hosted by Ordoalea Publishing. This is a Domain (setting) for the Domains Horror Roleplaying System. Anyone who buys this, and doesn't have the book itself, will get a 90% off on the Domains Horror Roleplaying System Core Rulebook for the duration of this sale as a bundle!

2 hours later…

AncientSwordRage

11:03 AM

@RavenDreamer is it the wrong tag, or do you just dislike that the tag exists?

2 hours later…

12:51 PM

@AncientSwordRage It has been about 20 years, hasn't it.

@BardicWizard Doesn't look too late to me. It seems like you're writing a series of posts; like RPGs, it's not real until it happens, so you can tack on an extra post about "how would this framework change if using Spell Points? What about Sorcery Points?"

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon I can still remember sneaking out of my bedroom to read it at night

@BESW I know you have strong feelings about Dresden, but the magic travel system there was interesting: each location has a kind of vibe, and will take you to a similar vibe place in the Nevernever.

I recall reading a book maybe 20 years ago where there were parallel worlds, and you could travel between them in places that were sufficiently similar by doing a kind of meditative dance. Something had happened where travel used to be widely available to anyone, but it was reduced to people who have origins on the destination plane. The main character, of course, had mixed heritage and could go to several of them.

@AncientSwordRage The gold standard is to have a bookshelf in your room.

AncientSwordRage

1:30 PM

@JoelHarmon there's a similar idea in the X of Darkness rules/setting

@JoelHarmon I had a grumpy older brother who slept in the same room as me 20 years ago :p

@BESW Does Discworld's L-space count?

@Someone_Evil I don't know, does it?

@JoelHarmon Iiinteresting.

I believe the protagonist first learned the dance as a traditional dance, and only later found out its more practical use.

@AncientSwordRage Many a younger sibling would view this as an advantage.

@BESW The premise, IIRC, is that all libraries are actually connected so if you know how to traverse it without getting lost you can travel from one to another.

Ooh! @BESW, have you read the Thursday Next books by Jasper Fforde? In that world, you can read yourself into a book or other text and back out again somewhere else.

That is my canonical series for "books for book lovers".

1:38 PM

@JoelHarmon I have! They're fun, though I never felt like any of the sequels quite matched up to The Eyre Affair.

Now I'm trying to remember how the transportation worked in his Shades of Grey.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW OH GOODNESS 100% yes

@JoelHarmon ?

@AncientSwordRage Some sibling dynamics I've observed include mutual annoyance (from goodhearted through malicious).

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon story-id on sci-fi ?

> The principle of L-space revolves around a seemingly logical equation; it is an extension of the 'Knowledge is Power': Books = Knowledge = Power = Energy = Matter.

@AncientSwordRage Maybe in several hours I'll remember and do a writeup.

AncientSwordRage

1:46 PM

@JoelHarmon or the whole range

@AncientSwordRage ... within an hour.

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon (less)

2:12 PM

this really interesting magic gemstone question seems stackable to me

1

Q: How to balance magic item that utilizes gems?

I have a really cool idea for a magic item but I am trying to figure out how to balance it. The premise of it is that it is a hilt that changes form when a gem is inserted in the pommel. The type of weapon and type of damage it does depends on what type of gem is inserted, the rarer the gem the m...

dnd-5e magic-items balance homebrew pricing

unless it's a meta question of "how do I write this question on a gem-based magic item", but that seems a bit circular

actually, on further review, close for clarity, recinded

3 hours later…

4:49 PM

soulknife's psychic blades actually kinda suck

sure, psychic damage is nice and all, but not being able to use them on opportunity attacks is a little unfortunate

plus the interaction with other feats is odd

AncientSwordRage

5:23 PM

@BESW For instance, at the start of one of the books, a main character goes back in time via the library. In another book, the librarian saves books from a library that was burning down

AncientSwordRage

5:35 PM

Are FAE Approaches skills?

Ha, looking for a tag for the question?

It's about FATE skills, so no loss there, but if I wanted to match them to anything I'd match them to attributes.

Of course, strictly speaking, they're approaches and should be tagged using the term from their own game.

5:57 PM

Im getting a too many requests error, but only from one page on the site: rpg.stackexchange.com/…

Can anyone else get there?

@AncientSwordRage Have you looked at any of the Fate publications as examples, e.g. Venture City, Dresden Files, Gods and Monsters

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@AncientSwordRage Them's fightin' words.

I think Ive got a bug.

When I go to the users tab, I get a too many requests error when the page is 1000 or more.

Anyone else repro?

It's happening on other stacks for me too.

@ThomasMarkov "There are an unusual number of requests coming from this IP address."

Unless 1 is an unusual number, something may be kaput server-side.

Anyone else repro?

rpg.stackexchange.com/…

Try this link

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

6:05 PM

@Glazius After a long period of uncertainty, I concluded that people can be split into two camps, one of which treats them in a way more similar to attributes from many other systems, and another which treats them more similar to Infernal Excellencies from Exalted.

@ThomasMarkov Same result, although it seems to work when I change page= to a smaller number. page=999 works, page=1000 shows the error message.

Same thing happens between /users?page=999&tab=newusers and /users?page=1000&tab=newusers

0

Q: "Unusual number of requests" error on users tab when page number is 1000 or more

On the users tab, I can view all pages from 1 to 999. However, when the page number reaches 1000 or more, I get an "unusual number of requests" error: I have reproduced this on two different devices, and another user I asked was able to reproduce the error.

@AncientSwordRage There is a grand total of 27 questions with the tag, and the tag wiki implies the tag has nothing to do with the question.

@ThomasMarkov Ahoy! Can I ask why you think the Sexuality tag is important to add to my question? Figure I'll ask you here than simply roll back.

AncientSwordRage

@RavenDreamer well I updated it 👀

Or at least I suggested an edit

I felt that changing sex had something to do with sexuality

AncientSwordRage

6:21 PM

@MikeQ no

But the question's not about sexuality. It's about how to achieve a particular goal via mechanical effect.

AncientSwordRage

@RavenDreamer some tags are mechanics focused some aren't

@RavenDreamer But if we're using tags to broadly classify questions, the particular goal very much falls under "sexuality".

ASR - Granted, but I do not think it adds value in this instance. I would like to roll back to the prior revision.

Is there any other reason you dont want the tag on there?

21

Q: User reputation ranking page is broken

Today me and some other users have observed that the reputation ranking page doesn't allow to navigate past page 999. For example, https://meta.stackexchange.com/users?page=1111&tab=reputation&filter=week shows a page: We're sorry... There are an unusual number of requests coming from this IP ad...

bug reputation-leagues error-message

Got my answer

AncientSwordRage

6:27 PM

@RavenDreamer what if an expert wants to find those questions and doesn't?

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, if I decide one day to browse questions tagged sexuality, a question about magical sex change is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to find.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov @V2Blast should we edit the post to mention the DDOS attack as that's the main problem?

@ThomasMarkov that too

@RavenDreamer Gender reassignment is pretty much the pinnacle of the sexuality tag, and should have such.

Because it's got nothing to do with sexuality!

The tag says:

> For questions related to in-game depictions of sexuality and any potential out-of-game issues related to those depictions.

There is no such relevance. The question could be, 'What options do I have for changing my character's race' and it would otherwise be identical.

It's, "I want to do X, how can I accomplish that"

@RavenDreamer Where "X" is sexuality.

AncientSwordRage

6:32 PM

@RavenDreamer then you'd add the race

@ThomasMarkov I don't equate sexuality with biological capacity to bear children -- which is what the question is actually asking.

AncientSwordRage

Changing gender would come under "in-game depictions of sexuality" because tags don't differentiate between sex and gender

@AncientSwordRage we could though.

We have a crossgender tag

@ThomasMarkov that is strictly about attitudes

So we'dhave to add to the sexuality tag, and make that description fit.

6:36 PM

Gender reassignment (magical) would in half the cases result in crossgender play, so it would apply

@RavenDreamer Im not going to "rabbit season/duck season" with the edits, but if you cannot be convinced here I'll ask about it on meta.

But crossplay is not at the core of the question.

@Akixkisu Especially not if we're differentiating between sexuality and gender.

ye

The gender tag is about attitude/identity

If the question isn't about identity, then the sexuality tag seems appropriate - and if that description doesn't work, then we should mend sexuality.

@Akixkisu Yeah. The questions seems to me like it should fit quite intuitively into a broad categorization of questions called "sexuality", and if the specifics of the description are the reason you don't think it applies @RavenDreamer, we ought to clarify the description.

6:39 PM

Gender reassignment by magcal means is not just superficially about the sexuality of the character, it's ALL about it - either you correct the character's felt wrong or induce one, (Char of physical born gender A feeling they should be B becomes A / Character born A feeling A gets re-asigned to B but retaining their views, resulting in dismorphia )

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu I feel like we should change the name though, and I don't know what to?

@Trish again, we are looking at what is at the core of the question.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov should we chang the title to "User reputation ranking page is broken due to protections in place after a DDOS attack"

That somethingelse comes with it is something that an answer might want to do.

@Akixkisu Hard, but either Gender or Sexuality should be there.

6:43 PM

Yes.

@AncientSwordRage No...that's the answer to the question

Either one should and here it seems that sexuality fits.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov trying to follow @V2Blast's example from the other day 🤔

Guess I'll ask about it on meta

It is about seducing the prince and changing a character's reproductive system to support childbearing.

6:45 PM

@Akixkisu That's a lot of sexiness for one question.

2

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov we could just wait for V2 to pop in?

@AncientSwordRage He just added the status-bydesign tag

Yeah, and if the character still identifies as male, even if they exp dis, then sexuality is at core of the topic.

And popped in right after your message about him popping in

AncientSwordRage

22 hours ago, by AncientSwordRage

> Locked question "bumped" by Community bot doesn't appear at top of homepage on web, but does appear at top in apps/the API

22 hours ago, by AncientSwordRage

> Bumped locked question is not visible on web, but visible in apps

Title Change too, to include the answer

6:48 PM

@AncientSwordRage My title edit from the other day wasn't changing the core of the question - the querent themself observed that the issue was probably with the API and not with the apps themselves (which another user confirmed), and that issue hasn't been fixed yet. My edit there isn't "the answer"; the "answer" would be a staff response addressing why this behavior is occurring, and whether or not it's intended behavior in the API vs. the site.

For this question, though, the title already explains the bug/issue; the staff answer provides the explanation for why the "bug" is intentional behavior. (If it weren't intentional behavior, a staff response would probably explain what our staff found when we investigated the issue, and how we fixed it/whether we plan to fix it.)

@BESW Apparently Wordle is quite popular among the staff here... And I also just learned this week that it was created by one of Philippe's former coworkers at Reddit (/u/powerlanguage, aka @powerlanguish on Twitter).

I've heard a bunch of people talk about it but have yet to check it out

@V2Blast So far we have two questions over on Puzzling about it

AncientSwordRage

@V2Blast gotcha

@V2Blast cool!

@V2Blast so far only favor took me 6 tries to get, it is fun.

@ThomasMarkov Sexuality is about sexual attraction and sexual acts: the horizontal tango and people you'd want to do that thing with. Your actual physical sex is a separate topic, no relation. Somene saying "I was assigned male at birth" is not a sexual statement.

Note the tag covers STIs, contraceptives, seduction, sexual attraction, sexual violence, etc.

It is a two part complex though, changing appeareance and reproductive system to seduce and to childbear.

7:01 PM

> "I was assigned male at birth" is not a sexual statement.

Sure, but the question is not about the seduction.

For every possible definition of "sexual"?

@ThomasMarkov Yes

I mean having a thrid tag seems reasonable.

@ThomasMarkov A person's sex, gender, and sexuality are three different things.

7:02 PM

Your sexuality is about what you're sexually attracted to. "Homosexual" is a sexuality. "Male" is not.

Sexuality is essentially about your sexuality and its expression.

It's about your sexual behaviours, attractions, etc.

This article seems to provide a decent explanation of the differences between those terms (though I've only just skimmed it).

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener see I knew that and I don't know why I didn't flag it up earlier

@V2Blast it's really fun

I am aware of these things.

Yeah the argument that the sexual preferance of the prince they are seducing is irrelevant to the mechanical change works, I still think if we add another tag that we should still consider that.

@doppelgreener I know what you're getting at, but I enjoy the tautological nature of the phrase "Sexuality is essentially about your sexuality [...]". :P

7:05 PM

understandable

:P

I'm just not convinced that the question should not have the tag.

Let me be categorical: there is no definition of "sexuality" that is "a person's sex", except perhaps found deep in medical manuals in narrow contexts.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov based on our earlier conversation, if I wanted to find questions about sexual attraction (aka sexuality) I would not want to have to scroll past it

I can see the argument the question should be tagged [sexuality] on the basis some of it addresses seduction, but the question isn't really about the seduction. It's about "want to physically transmogrify, how". I guess there's room someone would frame challenge as "don't need to transmogrify to seduce the prince, use this love potion" or something, thus addressing the seduction directly.

In regard to the specific question we are talking about a character wants to accomodate the sexual preferance of an npc to seduce them which seems very specifically about sexuality - while we should have a third tag I'm also not convinced that that is not at the core of the question as well, but I suppose the querent could add to that.

7:15 PM

@Akixkisu We've several questions that are strictly asking biological questions about sex and reproduction that are tagged sexuality.

Yes, I'd consider correctly

2

Q: What are the rules for determining pregnancy?

Suppose two characters have sex in-game. What are the rules for determining if a character is pregnant, how many kids there are (single birth, twins, triples, etc), and the gender(s) of the child(ren)?

dnd-3.5e sexuality

This one?

For asexual reproduction, there is probably some other tag

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, but if we create a new tag and retag accordingly, then there shouldn't be an issue with that.

AncientSwordRage

@Akixkisu agreed

7:20 PM

@Akixkisu I do consider that the question may be appropriate to categorise with the sexuality tag on the basis of the seduction topic

Just, not the topic of "transmogrify one's sex"

This question and this question are the same question for different games, one with the tag, one without. Which is tagged correctly?

@doppelgreener Yup.

@Akixkisu Yeah, that's fine

@doppelgreener SCOTUS: "homosexuality and transgender status are inextricably bound up with sex" [Where sex is the one meant in title VII: biological sex: Male, female, Intersex...]

@Trish also SCOTUS: Covid is not an occupational safety concern

AncientSwordRage

7:26 PM

Those are both arguments for policy makers to be educated on a topic, but not really relevant to tag policy

@Trish Whether I die or not is inextricably bound up with whether someone shoots me with a gun. SCOTUS is not making a dictionary definition of what "sex" means, it's stating an association exists.

@doppelgreener There's gotta be a better analogy than that. Your point is right, but the analogy isn't doing it for me lol

@doppelgreener the main point of Bostok was, that you the court is unable to rip the idea of sexuality to be separate from the biological sex.

Context — Bostok v. Clayton County was a court case that determined that queer identity was protected by law, on the basis that workplace discrimination on the basis of one's sex was illegal. They were inextricably tied up because firing a dude for liking men, but not a woman for liking men, would be discrimination: you're discriminating against a dude in a way you wouldn't discriminate against a woman.

(The defendants said "no, that's not what it is, the act we're firing them for is liking the same sex and we'd do that no matter who" and SCOTUS said "nah there's this other thing too though")

Yeah, I think the Supreme Court basically dodged the issue of whether sexuality was a protected class by saying it was sex-based discrimination?

7:33 PM

SCOTUS was making a statement of an assocation between two factors in terms of workplace discrimination law. I don't know how to explain to you that SCOTUS is not defining that sexuality and their sex are not inherently intertwined in general terminology such that "sexuality" and "sex" are the same thing, and even if it did, which it didn't, no dictionary does that and every explanation disagrees with that.

One's transgender status is not a topic of sexuality either, and I don't know how to explain that it would be backwards and offensive to suggest it is, which is what you're alleging SCOTUS also did.

@doppelgreener Who is "you" here?

Trish, in the SCOTUS quote.

@doppelgreener Sorry, I got confused.

I am not saying Trish is being backwards and offensive, I am getting Trish to consider that if this quote really said what she appears to be suggesting it said, that would be Not Good.

And again: it's just not a definition at all. It's an acknowledgement of an association. That association does exist! It is not something that makes these terms transient and equal.

8:06 PM

@doppelgreener you misunderstand what I mean. I meant to say, that because you have a biological sex (whatever it may be) and interest in non, one or more other sexes, you have a sexuality. You can't have not have both.

As in: everybody has a sex, everybody has a sexuality.

i'd agree with that

and one follows from the other. The defining thing of how you call the sexuality flows from the sex you have and to which you are attacted.

No they do not

The label we apply to them does

(maybe that is what you meant)

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener that is the difference

But this might be getting sidetracked: the matter was whether one's sex is inherently part of the topic of sexuality, and the fact is, it is not.

One's sex is separate from one's sexuality, they are different things, that we are discussing something concerning someone's sex does not mean we are discussing something concerning sexuality.

8:12 PM

You can't be Homo/heterosexual without including the own sex in the equation. The two are intrinsicly connected

We're not discussing that though.

That's not in dispute.

As for the question that sparked this, it doesn't explore the impact on the character's sexuality, but there would be tremendous impact of gender reassignment done via magic. It also would lead to either end or start cross-gender play...

There's gotta be a good tag out there for this question.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov or we make one

@AncientSwordRage Yeah, that's what I mean

8:25 PM

I would personally recommend leave it be; it's such a niche thing there probably is not a good tag.

Maybe romance on the same basis we were discussing earlier, given it's about a seduction thing

2

@doppelgreener possibly easier for some people to add to their questions, yes

AncientSwordRage

RPGBOT.Podcast Season 2 Episode 2 – The Move Toward Inclusion in Tabletop Gaming with included transcript. I've not listened to all of it but they don't get too much wrong...

8:55 PM

@doppelgreener We could also expand an associated tag and add that tagging functionality to it, as suggested earlier.

(Not that we have to, but that is an option)

@doppelgreener You get a lifting belt yet?

@RavenDreamer Would be neat to have your feedback on the discussion, and are you comfortable with the romance tag?

9:20 PM

@ThomasMarkov Not yet, but it's on my radar. I'm resuming my gym schedule soon and I'll see how I go as I build weight back up again.

I do intend to get that belt you recommended at the time I start experiencing stability issues again.

@doppelgreener I use the full range of supportive equipment - knee sleeves for squatting, elbow sleeves and wrist wraps for pressing.

hmmm

i was figuring i might only need these once i, you know, need them

& see how much stability i can develop without them

@doppelgreener That's a good idea.

Would you recommend ... not that? Get them sooner?

Ok, phew :'D

I've always had nagging tendonopathies in my elbows, which the elbow sleeves are a big help for.

I dont think you ever need those things, as you can manage any pain or instability with conservative load selection, but they are a tool that can help you lift more weight, which depending on your goals, may be favorable.

Wrist wraps are probably the closest out of all of them to being a "safety" tool, the barbell and dumbbell bench presses can get heavy enough pretty quickly that maintaining a neutral wrist becomes impossible without assistance.

If you dont have any knee or elbow issues, wrist wraps are probably the first thing to consider after a belt.

9:40 PM

My family's had some knee issues, but those were more related to misalignment caused by the outer thigh muscles becoming stronger than the inner thigh muscles.

I've so far avoided that by being very mindful of the relationships between those muscles.

(learn from other peoples' mistakes, because you don't have time to make them all yourself)

But you only "need" wraps when your heaviest presses are exceeding your ability to keep your wrists mostly neutral.

and my legs are strong. Back when I was using the leg press regularly, I reached something like 120kg on it.

really in my squats my torso is the limiting factor lol

@doppelgreener Getting back to squatting regular and youll see that leg press blow up.

hell yeah

I wonder if my gym has one now.

It's fairly new, so there's some bits and bobs they're still getting in.

user image

I coach a girl that used to be afraid to leg press heavy. She was intimidated by the weight because she was relating it to how heavy the weights felt squatting.

AncientSwordRage

9:46 PM

@doppelgreener any tips? Seems like a tricky thing to be aware of

@AncientSwordRage As I squat I work on being mindful of which muscles I'm activating. It started with being mindful of activating both legs simultaneously and equally, because I was developing a "lean", using one leg to power through the squat more than the other, which was going to give me asymmetric results (bad, ofc).

Then a couple of people in my family developed knee issues around the same time, so I started applying that same awareness to the muscles on the inner side and outer side — just being mindful to make sure I'm not activating one of those groups too hard.

I don't really have much I can offer beside that, just that during my leg exercises I keep an eye on that.

As I do my exercises, I pay attention to what it feels like I'm activating, learn where that is, and over time build up a sense of what muscles I'm activiting if I'm trying to be aware of it.

@AncientSwordRage Squat with a reasonably challenging load and your CNS will recruit all the muscles involved in knee and hip extension with no meaningful discrimination.

:D

yes good

@ThomasMarkov I haven't touched the linear leg press in a long time, as I now prefer to touch as few things in the gym as possible (for reasons), but I recall being surprised when I maxed out on that at something like 3x my squat weight. Turns out that not having to include your upper body weight is a big deal.

"I used too much rectus femoris and not enough vastus medialis on that 5 rep max squat" said no one ever.

@JoelHarmon Not just that, but not having to stabilize your torso vastly increases the weight your legs can move.

9:51 PM

I'd believe that.

@JoelHarmon My gym's leg press doesnt hold enough weight for me to do a proper 1RM on it - it "only" goes up to 765.

On the other hand, my casual perusal of Doctor Fitness.SE tells me that focusing too much on the main muscle while neglecting the supporting muscles can lead to injury when you try and do something in the wild and you can't properly support yourself.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener I'll be brutally honest, I had assumed it was just one muscle group irrespective of inner or outer....

@ThomasMarkov isn't that what you want though?

@JoelHarmon In fact, that's one of the reasons a belt helps you lift more weight. Several EMG studies have showed greater muscle activation in the quads while wearing a belt.

AncientSwordRage

If my CNS is recruiting all of it... Wouldn't it be balanced?

9:54 PM

@AncientSwordRage Yes, that is exactly what you want.

AncientSwordRage

Then when is the fine-grained awareness needed...?

Like I can't imagine how I'd bend a leg with only inner muscles 🤷🏻‍♂️

@AncientSwordRage There are some technical deficiencies that can be explained by muscle strength imbalances.

AncientSwordRage

Go on...

For example, excessive knee valgus in the squat can be caused by weak hip abductors relative to stronger adductors.

So if your knees cave on the squat, it means you need some booty gains.

The early hip rise/chest fall/squat morning pattern can be caused by a quad weakness relative the hip extensors.

@AncientSwordRage i guess they are just one muscle group

10:00 PM

@doppelgreener They are, in the sense that they all contribute to primarily knee extension, but the muscles of the quadricep all have unique functions besides just knee extension.

right

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad keyword in username, bad keyword with email in body, messaging number in body, +6 more (671): GREAT LOVE SPELL CASTER DR OGAGA THAT HELP ME SAVE MY RELATIONSHIP. WHATSAPP +2347059387282‭ by BEST LOVE SPELL‭ on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose @ThomasMarkov @linksassin)

oh my goodness it's already gone

bye!

:)

Nice

10:02 PM

@Someone_Evil I thought I was flag banned because I couldnt load the flag dialogue lololol

@ThomasMarkov Oh, yeah. I might think of it like this: stand up, bend one leg so your heel's behind your butt, and begin to raise one leg directly to your right (not in front, not behind, just to the side) so that your knee points in that direction. You might need to tilt your body the other way to maintain balance. You're now using your outer abductor for that, among other muscles. Now straighten your leg outward in that direction. You're now using your forward abductor for that.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener I guess I more meant, I didn't realize I had a way to physically activate parts of that group separately

Like my eyes don't move independently, neither did I think muscles in that muscle group could

^ that exercise would do it :D

You can't lift your leg with your front abductor

You gotta use a muscle at the side

but maybe i'm wrongo about this

AncientSwordRage

I feel like saying challenge accepted, but perhaps biology is not on my side

what am i, a person who knows things about muscles,

it's 10pm and it's been a long day, all this advice is void

10:05 PM

There have been some really interesting studies done analyzing the relationship between mind muscle connection and hypertrophy outcomes.

Basically, you might get more gainz by thinking about the particular muscle you’re using.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener tell me about it!

Time to start making dinner

@ThomasMarkov the brain is a muscle right....

@AncientSwordRage Oh for sure, in the sense that educating yourself about your body generally leads to better outcomes.

Oh hey, it's you. Can I suggest re-evaluating what you're doing with your life, and whether you're really the person in the right here?

(for transcript purposes: that's in response to a troll whose messages are now gone.)

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener yup, and they're not welcome

I should really find a gym of my own

10:30 PM

gyms good

wonderful places to be

AncientSwordRage

Never really been to a non-school gym

Tell a lie, I walked through Bath Uni gym a few times on my way to Jiu-jitsu

I think it was there?

There's a bunch in town, one is Everlast(?) And one is F45 training?

Neither look that welcoming... It sounds like when you find a good gym it's a good gym though

@AncientSwordRage I only ever went to the one gym outside of school, so I'm not sure what would be unwelcoming about it. On the other hand, I'm low wis and might just not notice. Also, my typical gym time is after my kids go to bed, when there are rarely more than three other people.

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon not unwelcoming, just not... Enticingly welcoming 🤷🏻‍♂️ I dunno what are words even

Positive rather than neutral?

AncientSwordRage

10:48 PM

@JoelHarmon yes

So the main things I look for from a gym is:
• There should be a good range of weightlifting equipment. If it's mainly running machines, it's not for me.
• There should be at least 3 squat racks. People compete for those and every single workout session of mine requires one.
• The equipment is in good repair. Metal should look shiny. Rubber weight plates should be, like, intact, not cracked and taped.
• Things are in good order. If there are weights all over the floor and the free weights are all out of order, people aren't taking enough care of this gym and it's going to be a pain to find …

I'll elaborate on that olympic weights point.

user image

The discs you will normally see in a gym look like this.

Note that the radius grows the heavier the weight is. They're all different. This is absolutely fine for bench press.

My social preference is more of a "I'm not here to talk to you. Ask me whether I'm working on a machine, ask me to spot for you, or please leave me alone".

But for anything where you're picking up heavy weights off the floor, it plays havoc.

user image

Olympic weights are all the same radius regardless of the weight. They just get thicker. This means you have a consistent clearance off the ground no matter what you've racked up.

This is mainly important for deadlifting, clean and jerk, barbell row, and other exercises that involve picking up the barbell off the ground.

@doppelgreener I've actually found it easier to work with weights from the floor if they're not all the same radius; it's easier to slide on/off smaller weights if they don't actually touch the floor. The point is moot if they have one of those little stands.

Oh, yeah, that's definitely a factor.

10:53 PM

Also, all the stuff I do off the floor like that involves at least one of the big plates on each side, so I hadn't noticed a height difference there.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener good to know

@JoelHarmon Same here at this point. I've just come to like these and prefer when they're available.

AncientSwordRage

If I took up free weights I feel like I'd need a lot of handholding so to speak

I think I'd be looking for cycling machines and the things you sit/stand on/near that look more like machines, lots of cables etc (what are the called?)

@AncientSwordRage In terms of "how do I not hurt myself" (which is most important), or in terms of "what exercises do I do"?

@AncientSwordRage Overall: just about every single gym will be a supportive, non-judgemental atmosphere. Wherever you are, everyone started there. Nobody started out strong and highly capable, everyone had to do work, so nobody who's doing more than you is going to judge you—because they know this is where you were.

10:55 PM

@AncientSwordRage I think it's just "machines" vs. "free weights".

The exceptions are few. Someone who denigrates you for not being as strong or capable as they are is violating gym taboo.

@JoelHarmon yeah

If you can pick it up and swing it around, it's a free weight. If you can't, it's a machine.

(do not pick up and swing around the free weights)

(do not pick up and swing around the machines)

2

lol

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon what even is all this, where do I start, what's the etiquette, why have I started sweating from just looking at the weights, those aren't weights that's just somebody's shows near a cardboard tube... Etc

@JoelHarmon what if they're staying a revolution against humanity...?

@AncientSwordRage That's what we're trying to avoid here.

AncientSwordRage

11:00 PM

@JoelHarmon ahhh you're saying swinging them round might be the final straw...

@AncientSwordRage For questions like this you could either take the Stack approach and read Personal Fitness SE, or you could take the RPG-approved approach of just talking to someone ("are you done with this machine?" etc. should never backfire).

AncientSwordRage

@JoelHarmon "Sir that's the vending machine"

I will give it a go one day though @JoelHarmon

You have the option of having a personal trainer for a few weeks, if you can afford that.

@JoelHarmon Oh yeah. "Are you done with that rack?" "I've got a couple more sets to go." "Okay, cool." is a conversation I might be on either side of.

If it's my very last set I'll tell them and they'll hang around another minute while I finish up, otherwise they might get on with something else.

AncientSwordRage

@doppelgreener this feels like a classic 'to find out if it's worth investing I need to first invest' problem

A personal trainer will do what you need them to do for you, and that can/will include:
• working out what kind of workout meets your goals
• introducing you to the various exercises
• showing you how to use free weights correctly and safely
• showing you how to use the various machines
• helping you find your current capacity in various exercises
• helping you learn how to safely and effectively raise that capacity over time

For me a personal trainer was my access to a grand tour of everything I needed to know about actually using the stuff in the gym.

That's knowledge you keep forever.

AncientSwordRage

11:45 PM

@doppelgreener sounds good

My brother-in-law had one for a while, and it sounded like the main thing his PT did was push/motivate him, which just sounds extremely stressful to me

I've had bad experiences with that kind of pushing and say, driving instructors who don't understand dyspraxia etc

@ThomasMarkov @doppelgreener @nitsua60 et al. I have opened a meta question about the applicability of the tag: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/11913/…

AncientSwordRage

@RavenDreamer not sure if it needed more discussion? But sure we can get something agreed upon

@RavenDreamer Looks good, I think you framed the discussion well.

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