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12:06 AM
> Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses n
 
37
A: What in-universe reasons exist that explain why a druid can use metal weapons but not wear metal armour?

Quadratic WizardThe explanation varies between editions of D&D According to the AD&D 1st edition Players Handbook, wearing metal armor interferes with the druid's supernatural abilities, but merely carrying items made of metal does not: The more powerful druidic spells, as well as their wider range of weaponry,...

 
12:43 AM
@BESW my guess is they're framing it as the druids of Wales Vs the invading Romans
Or similar
Which is not to say they didn't have civilization or metal, but it's all too easy to imagine somebody distilling those two groups down into that overly simplistic terms and coming to the druids can't wear metal falsehood
 
1
Q: How does Enlarge affect improvised weapons?

Lio ElbammalfThis question was sparked by a couple of other questions/answers around the effect of Enlarge on an artificer's cannon and an arrow where the wording of "weapon" in the enlarge spell is heavily relied upon: Enlarge. The target's size doubles in all dimensions, and its weight is multiplied by eig...

 
1:01 AM
Other flavours of druid are available
 
1:26 AM
Peterson (*Playing at the World*) doesn't mention druids; they postdate the end of his survey, really.
1e PHB: "The more powerful druidic spells, as well as their wider range of weaponry, make up for the fact that druids are unable to use any armor or shields other than leather armor and wooden shields (metallic armor spoils their magical powers)."
Later: "Druids can be visualized as medieval cousins of what the ancient Celtic sect of druids would have become had it survived the Roman conquest."
The thing is, it's not metal per se. They've usually been perfectly happy using sickles, scythes, and other farming-themed weaponry. It's metal armor that has always been the sticking point.
 
I'm not really asking what D&D has to say about druids; I already know. I'm wondering where D&D got its "not associated with civilization" loners doing rituals in the woods ideas about druids.
 
Looks like Dragon issues 12 and 32 (cough @korvin cough) have articles on the "historical" foundation of druids, which predate their conception as a class. I'd look there, if I had access to them.
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that they're all based on speculative fiction "inspired by" the Celtic revival and Neo-Druidism.
> a prodigious amount of rubbish has been written about Druidism
-- Sir Thomas Downing Kendrick, 1927
 
Then Dragon 48 has an article "The Druid and the GM," which frwiki summarizes as "advice on playing druids." So for my money, Dragon 12 and 32 are the places to go, until one's ready to do Peterson-level of searching zines and personal correspondence.
 
Because like, we know that D&D's Rakshasa has very very little to do with the folkloric or religious depictions of the creature and is instead primarily derived from Kolchak: The Night Stalker episode 11 "Horror in the Heights" (1974).
And that a lot of the weirdness of the Cleric class is because they were using Hammer Film Productions horror films as a major inspiration.
D&D is a kitchen sink of specific contemporary pop culture references that individuals in the early groups liked to add to their tables.
It's very much like Stephenie Meyer's vampires being based on an understanding of vampires solely from contemporary pop culture osmosis; when we see a throwback to some 19th century vampire theme we don't go "Oh she must have done her research," we go "I wonder what modern thing inspired that."
 
1:50 AM
Is "we need more sparkly druids" the wrong takeaway here?
 
No. No, it is not.
(If nobody's written a thesis on Twilight as a straight "Carmilla," I want to know why not.)
 
I'll go with "we need fewer classes predicated on the archetype 'goes their own way, loner, doesn't care to play with others'" in this (generally) group game, for my takeaway.
 
That too
 
(I probably didn't need to say the same thing three times, either.)
Jul 27 '18 at 16:22, by nitsua60
But give them their due: they're a really good solo PC class. If I'm running a duet ranger is one of my top recommendations.
 
2:29 AM
> In the works of the classical authors we are able to glimpse the druids as they actually were: doctors, philosophers, and teachers; not the red-handed literary demons of the last few centuries.
From the final para. of "The Druids," by James Bruner, Dragon 12 (Feb '78).
The article mentions mostly Greek and Roman accounts of druids in Gaul (esp. Caesar's mentions of them in the history of the Gallic Wars), and has them as educators of noble scions, holders of administrative positions, and definitely not involved in sacrifices in the woods.
2
 
2:57 AM
The article from issue 32 reads kinda like a bloated and less well-sourced rehash of the one from 12, with additional notes on playing druids. Notably, nothing in there about druids not wearing metal. (Though there is passing note made that Celtic warriors writ large generally fought with weapon and shield but little-to-no armor.)
 
8
Q: Does Mind Sliver's saving throw penalty apply to Concentration saves from its own damage?

KirtMind Sliver (Tasha's Cauldron of Everything p.108) says: The target must succeed on an Intelligence saving throw or take 1d6 psychic damage and subtract 1d4 from the next saving throw it makes before the end of your next turn. I am confused about the timing of the "next saving throw". If I use...

 
 
1 hour later…
4:19 AM
@nitsua60 I'll see what I can find ...
@nitsua60 celts came from the area around the black sea originally (see also Scythians) and settled in the central mountainous area of Austria/Switzerland for a while (Hallstadt IIRC) long before Celts show up in Ireland, and then there's the whole Ibero Celt connection. Celts did metal, but the Romans in Metal armor were in Stark Contrast to the non armored celts whom they subdued in Gaul. Vercingetorix, and such.
The druid without metal armor from Eldritch Wizardry drew on at least a bit of 'known' info on druids, about whom damned little is known ...
 
@KorvinStarmast yeah, it was a case of D&D adopting a setting-specific norm as a universality, something they did several times over during their early development
 
In other news, bards and druids are deeply related, and my bard tonight made up two songs on the spot ( that I posted in the discord chat) that earned our party many gold pieces ... while our warlock was out on a scouting mission. (He used her public performance as a distraction to his scouting mission)
 
 
1 hour later…
5:27 AM
@nitsua60 From what I can see, those articles are... entirely unlike D&D druids at any point in the game's history.
It's like, I dunno, a DVD of The Emperor's New Groove having a special feature documentary about Pachacuti.
The Combat Wheelchair v3.0 by Sara Thompson. Extensive core rules, 14 subclasses (+ a whole NEW class & @matthewmercer's blood hunter), upgrades catalogue, NPCs, short story, & beautiful artwork! Plain text & dyslexic friendly PDFs too!
5
Matt Sanders wrote a twitter thread about how "Most fantasy RPGs, especially the big ones, rely on players collaboratively solving problems posed by the GM/books the GM owns" and how Sealed Library games "sidestep all these problems."
Grief :: Leaf by Kiri. A ritual for ordinary sadness
Birthday Reverse Sale by Reizor. A bundle by Reizor, $74.94 for 7 games.
"Beyond Romance: Parenthood, Friendship, and Other Complex Relationships in RPGs", a panel at the upcoming Big Bad Con with Alex Roberts, Meg Baker, Jenn Martin, Jamila Nedjadi, and Whitney Marie Delaglio. Now that romance is actually pretty mainstream in roleplaying these days, let's talk about designing mechanics that support and explore other kinds of relational complexity.
2
jay dragon wrote a twitter thread about "games that i call 'games having teeth'"
"The Ghost Ship" by Nala Wu, an illustration for the adventure "Bad Luck Fortune" by Doryen Chin in Unbreakable: Revolution from Unbreakable Publishers. A collection of Asian-centric adventures that showcases the versatility of Asian stories with a plethora of Tabletop Roleplaying systems and rulesets.
Sandy Pug Games wrote a twitter thread of "Resources for making cool and visually interesting games without making art yourself or knowing how to do layout or having a budget"
 
 
5 hours later…
10:41 AM
@ThomasMarkov You had an opportunity to use them now. How do you feel about them?
 
11:39 AM
@BESW this looks fantastic
@BESW I should read that 🤔
 
@AncientSwordRage Carmilla or Twilight?
 
@BESW the former
 
Ah yes.
It's definitely one of the seminal early works.
 
I've not heard good things about the latter, but thank you for not assuming
@BESW I think this could be really interesting
 
I'm absolutely fascinated by Twilight, not least because so many of the criticisms leveled against it waffle between nitpicking, unfair, and outright inaccurate. Which is not to say that's particularly GOOD, just that its problem lie elsewhere.
 
11:49 AM
As for d&d classes, we could easily fold a bunch into each other
@BESW it absolutely sounds worth studying, but like it would be hard to enjoy
 
I think I've mentioned before that I took a course in vampire media in college, and have continued to sort of keep up with it ever since. Twilight fits into the movement of vampires through culture very well, it's not an outlier at all.
(In fact, I consider it further confirmation of the paper I wrote on the Phantom of the Opera's cultural trajectory making it a vampire in all but name.)
 
The first ones I'd merge are monk into fighter, which solves* some the racism inherent in monks depiction and opened the way for a better supported tavern brawler architype
* because you still need to work on that, it doesn't come for free
@BESW that is news to me, but a very cool subject to study
Did I ever share my answer here: scifi.stackexchange.com/a/24141/3804
 
I find it wild that Dracula is considered "classic."
He was a massive departure from previous vampire literature --Stoker took a lot of what we'd now consider werewolf lore, among other things, as inspiration-- and his depiction on the screen then completely changed his portrayal from the book.
 
@BESW ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
 
I mean, you're not wrong to call him classic. Just... absolutely wild that it's accurate.
 
11:58 AM
I mean Blade might be considered a classic by some
 
Counterpoint on the zombie thing; zombies didn't consistently rot until the late 1960s because they weren't consistently dead until the revenants in Night of the Living Dead (1968) was retroactively labelled zombies by fans.
Prior to that they were just as often, if not more often, portrayed as living people whose minds were enslaved by a combination of magic, hypnosis, and chemicals. And the fear they represented in fiction was white people being enslaved by Black people.
More undead are unrotten than rotten, generally speaking. The prom queen hitchhiker comes to mind: ghost stories aren't as scary if there's no surprise twist.
Our ancestors move among us, and whether we fear or respect them, our inability to be sure drives a lot of stories about the dead walking--just like stories about fairies, werewolves, and so on. They all walk with us, unseen.
 
@Akixkisu worked fine for the posts I reviewed.
 
@ThomasMarkov I mean the answer queue in particular, where you reviewed one post.
When "looks okay" or "edit" function, it works, but everything else is bad.
 
@AncientSwordRage Oh gosh, Blade's another great example of adaptational inertia. He was a recurring secondary character in Dracula comics, and looked more like Luke Cage than an escaped White Wolf PC, and the film's success caused an update to his comics counterpart.
Of course, the best Blade stories are the Spike TV series and the Marvel Anime: Blade miniseries.
Sticky Fingaz was better at playing Wesley Snipe's Blade than Wesley Snipes was, and you can quote me.
 
12:15 PM
@Akixkisu yeah.
Just reviewed a reopen vote
Holy inconsistent font size Batman
 
@BESW that's an excellent point
@BESW I will!
@ThomasMarkov yikes
 
@AncientSwordRage I’m on my phone right now, you mind looking through the meta.se post with ctrl+f for an answer reporting font size inconsistency?
There’s 70 answers and I can’t ctrl+f
 
He can't, he's too busy quoting me.
 
@BESW amongst other things
Also I'm on mobile as well
Although I just went and did it any way
@markov meta.stackexchange.com/a/369148/175002 nothing there about font or size
I'm hoping that's the right meta
 
12:55 PM
@ThomasMarkov FWIW the site does have a inquestion: search parameter. It returns nothing for font or size for that question
 
 
3 hours later…
3:32 PM
2
Q: Is the Artificer newb-friendly?

DaewokI have a friend who's interested in D&D and is coming from a background in 40k and Star Wars Armada. Given the difference in types of games, I worry about them being bogged overwhelmed. Truth be told, I get the sense that Artificer stands out to them because it's the closest approximation to a fl...

 
3:49 PM
Different types of vampire (Twitter link)
My favourite is the one with a protein shaker
 
 
4 hours later…
8:16 PM
I've VtC'ed "how shall we reframe the upcoming revisit of DGtS" on meta, since the revisit's been posted.
5
Q: How shall we frame our upcoming revisit of the Don't Guess the System Policy?

AkixkisuAs a community, we should discuss how to frame the upcoming revisit of the Don't Guess the System Policy. We need a transparent and fair vote, so we ought to establish voting rules that prevent influences that negatively impact the transparency of the voting process. We have to acknowledge our in...

 
9:02 PM
@nitsua60 This is an ought/is-difference, but sure we can close this. I have no idea why we should do it, though.
 
9:30 PM
Because you don't want new answers coming on something that's moot.
 
:59013063 Since we are discussing how we should frame it, framing it in the particular discussion doesn't make it moot. Even when the vote is over, there could be valuable input about how to frame it.
If it would turn out that we framed the vote poorly, which I don't think is a position anyone formulated, then it would be the proper place to propose better framing.
Generally, we don't close these kinds of questions about framing on meta. So it feels somewhat odd that we should close this one.
 
9:45 PM
I were thinking that we were gonna do a post mortem (right term?) about the framing. Part because we were doing weird things, part that my impression is rather tainted with the technical of doing that, and I'd want to hear how it was for the community
The whole time closing and dupe pointing of metas has been somewhat inconsistent, I think
 
Closing it as part of a post mortem and moving discussion there is a much better reason, since that would move any such discussion to that place.
I think closing it as a dupe of that post mortem would be good, once it exists.
 
I'm not gonna vote either way for now, but if it does end up being closed remind me to edit the dupe list once the post mortem is up
 
10:00 PM
Will do.
 
<And now for something completely different> I've had a survey type question in mind for a bit: What is a spell (or other thing) that you wish were better?
 
10:16 PM
Do my lower back muscles count?
 
@Someone_Evil my ability to get on the same page as DMs in an environment where collaboration is against the rules
(and by extension -- being able to not hose things up when the spotlights are pointed at you)
 
10:38 PM
@Someone_Evil I would controversially suggest Eldritch Blast, so long as it was caveated that better doesn't mean more powerful. It feels like a class feature masquerading as a spell which seems wrong.
 
@AncientSwordRage In 3.5 it was a class feature AFAIK
 
On the other hand, I sorta like that it's a spell, because it means I get to not pick it
 
11:00 PM
@Akixkisu I prescribe deadlifts.
 
@ThomasMarkov But its so hard to get a good necromancer these days
 
@ThomasMarkov Funnily enough that is why they are an issue, I break form too quickly.
 
@Someone_Evil I can refer you my guy
@Akixkisu do more with less weight. Or do RDLs
RDLs are a really good substitute if conventional deads don’t agree with you.
 
@ThomasMarkov I'm working on it, but it is one of those making bad decisions as stop-gap measures for too long and then reaping the rewards. I need someone in person to check my movements, but I still can't do that much due to the current environment.
 
@Akixkisu Planks are great too, especially for rehabbing the trunk.
 
11:13 PM
@ThomasMarkov I'm currently mainly doing variatons of bridges, planks, flutterkicks, jackknifes and crunches.
Due to limiting myself for a while thanks to injuries (but still exercising), I have some bad imbalances.
 
Add dead bugs and bird dogs. Those are my favorites. I do dead bugs and bird dogs for warming up for deadlifts.
 
I like dead bugs. I wonder if I can convince myself to do bird dogs. They are one of those exercises that fit really nicely into a hit routine, but I don't jive well with them.
 
Ben
Morning all
 
o7
 
Ben
I need help finding a meme
@Akixkisu 2o
It's the one of the Age of Empires forafer, then he gets attacked by the wolf, then gets up and continues to collect berries while being attacked.
It's a 4 panel comic strip
But I can't seem to get the right search going
Ahh heavy facepalm moment. simply changed "meme" to "comic" and it was the first result
 
11:23 PM
That was quick.
 
@Ben here, have a reward. youtube.com/watch?v=PpA1J-7-P10
 
Ben
@Akixkisu I have been programming for 5 years now. I know how to google.
:P
@Akixkisu That is amazing. The subtitles are on point
@Someone_Evil That's the one. See? "Comic" not "meme"... smh
 
Reminds me of my favourite mission.
Not sure if it was aoe 1 or 2.
 
11:28 PM
You start with one priest, and if you walk the wrong way, you get mauled by a lion.
 
Ben
@Akixkisu wololololo
 
JNButlerArt shared on twitter "my pencils for the hunter roles that I have the privilege of illustrating for @temporalhiccup’s upcoming Lumen game!"
Meguey Baker would like to see "more #ttrpg games that center books!! Or fabric, because there are similar tangled stories of intrigue about all kinds of textiles and textile technology," in light of this historical thread by Mateusz Fafinski about "a late antique heresy thriller!"
 
Ben
So how has the weekend been?
@ThomasMarkov We're doing something similar for our plant troughs :p
 
11:43 PM
I delivered the capstone program to a two-month series of storytelling programs I've been hosting for an online prayer meeting, and I think it went well!
 
Ben
Oh very nice!
I admit, that took me a few tries to get the meaning haha. It's still early for me
 
That's fair, it's a rather unusual setup.
This November is the hundred-year anniversary of the death of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, so Bahá'í communities around the world have been telling a lot of the stories of His life this year. I've been doing a once-a-month storytelling session for an online prayer meeting, and experimenting with how to juxtapose stories and holy texts to encourage uplifting conversation afterwards. It's very much an extended application of my learning from GMing, and hosting double film features.
Then the regular host had a family commitment for a couple months and I took over hosting for the whole time. So I expanded the storytelling element and got a lot more experimental with it. Learned a lot, got good responses.
 
Ben
It's a pity putting "Gming" on your resume under the skills section doesn't count lol
 
And yesterday was the last day I'm hosting the regular meetings, so I made a capstone program using passages from Indigenous storytellers and Bahá'í texts to explore why we tell stories and how it informs identity and creates community.
 

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