English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

2:41 PM

Kinda slow here today. I thought @RegDwight was supposed to be busy helping people.

RegDwight

I am. That's why it's so slow.

Robusto

Work faster, dammit!

RegDwight

No matter how fast I work, I can't work faster than I work.

I see I've been missing some fun yet again.

-1

Q: What does the following poem mean?

There's a certain slant of light, On winter afternoons, That oppresses, like the weight Of cathedral tunes. Heavenly hurt it gives us; We can find no scar, But internal difference Where the meanings are. None may teach it anything, 'Tis the seal, despair,- An imperial affliction Sent us of the ...

words

Rhodri

@Robusto: Damn, I take my eyes of the active list for five minutes and you beat me to a correction

Robusto

That one was already closed.

RegDwight

2:48 PM

My point exactly. You always close everything while I'm away.

No fun left for me.

Robusto

This is fun for you? Why don't you, um, run for moderator or something?

RegDwight

Except some fun with my answers being accepted and unaccepted again within seconds.

english.stackexchange.com/posts/13995/timeline

@Robusto I dunno, I'm afraid it's too late.

Robusto

Well, you could be like the fans of the Chicago Cubs and just shrug and say, "Wait till next year."

RegDwight

And the reason given? "I enjoy Condemened." Sic. Cue next question...

Robusto

I'm not your question monkey.

Rhodri

2:51 PM

@RegDwight It's not like it was even the right answer

Not that there was a right answer to that question, but still.

RegDwight

There kind of never is a right answer to that type of questions.

I'm not really complaining or anything, just killing some time here and entertaining Robusto. Better than the other way round.

Robusto

Entertain harder!

Wait, that didn't come out quite right ...

Eldros

Tough customer to please

RegDwight

Lalala. <Dances>

Always keep your customer satisfied!

Robusto

Hmm ... not exactly Baryshnikov ...

RegDwight

2:54 PM

Quoted here, but like not appreciated like at all.

7

Q: "slander" and "libel", any differences?

Are there any differences between slander and libel? Thanks.

word-choice verbs differences nouns

@Robusto I will take not being Baryshnikov over not being ignored by Sarah Jessica Parker any time, thank you.

Robusto

"I hear words I never heard in the Bible"

RegDwight

Precisely. Thank you!

Jez

Hmm.

Would you guys consider 'email' a standard noun?

Robusto

And I think you're more like two or even three steps away from a shoeshine. Just sayin' ...

RegDwight

@Jez Sure. What's non-standard about it?

Robusto

2:55 PM

It's so standard it's common.

Jez

feels like it needs a hyphen.

Robusto

No. No hyphen.

Jez

yeah, 'u' for 'you' is common too :-)

Robusto

The word was born without a hyphen, to add one now would be ... well, sad.

RegDwight

25

Q: "Email" or "e-mail"

Which way of writing the word: "Email" or "e-mail" is correct? Both variants seem to be in wide use. If both ones are okay, maybe there is a difference in contexts they have been used (one is more formal than the other)?

word-choice spelling grammaticality

Jez

2:56 PM

it was? i've seen it with a hyphen all over the plcwe

place

Robusto

It would be like adding a conscience to @RegDwight.

Eldros

@Robusto say that to the French.

RegDwight

@Jez BTW, you can edit your stuff here. Hover over the message, there'll be a menu.

Jez

what about 'xray'?

Robusto

That one uses a hyphen.

x-ray

Jez

2:57 PM

why? :-)

Robusto

Why not?

Jez

because you dropped the hyphen in e-mail

Robusto

No, there never was a hyphen in email.

Jez

for as long as i've been on the internet there has been

which is probably 15 years now

RegDwight

Thousands of hyphens perish as English marches on

Also, @Jez, please do read the answers to the question I've linked to.

Jez

2:59 PM

another thing; is email a verb?

Robusto

And it's been email for over a hundred years, well before the Internetz got here:

Rhodri

Yes, just like mail

Robusto

etymonline.com/index.php?search=email&searchmode=none

RegDwight

Sure.

Eldros

email is a noun, to email is a verb

maybe

Jez

3:00 PM

regdwight: one answer there shows e-mail as consistently being more common, and being the only version in the beginning

RegDwight

Thank you for reading the answer. Now what's your question, then?

Nobody says you are not allowed to write e-mail. Nobody. At least not here on this site.

Rhodri

Speaking as someone who was there in the beginning (well, pretty much), the hyphen was seen as an affectation even then.

Jez

i was just surprised it's considered standard English now. it isn't even in the Random House dictionary at reference.com

Robusto

@RegDwight — But we reserve the right to laugh at people behind their backs. Huhuh.

RegDwight

@Robusto Well, that right is reserved by everyone everywhere at any time.

Eldros

3:01 PM

@Robusto Why not in their face?

Rhodri

Dictionaries don't define standard English, they chase it.

RegDwight

^ This.

Jez

heh heh

Robusto

@Eldros — That would be rude.

Jez

not like l'academie francaise in France

:-)

RegDwight

3:02 PM

If email is in a dictionary, it means that it's gained enough momentum.

Jez

if you speak a word they don't recognize, Jacques Chirac will come and kill you

RegDwight

8

Q: Regulatory bodies and authoritative dictionaries for English

Some languages have a "regulatory body" issuing recommendations and guidelines regarding the use of that language. For example in the case of Spanish it's the Real Academia Española whose status is recognised in all Spanish-speaking countries. The Academy, among other things, publishes a diction...

dictionaries

Eldros

@Jez Sarkozy now.

RegDwight

@Jez I'm afraid you're behind the times.

Semi-jinx.

Jez

Chirac was more aggressively French

Robusto

3:03 PM

George W. Bush was right. They hates our freedomz.

Eldros

@Jez It's news to me

Jez

one time he stormed out of a room shouting "why the hell are you speaking English?" heh heh

RegDwight

►

FX_

why is it that, every time I open the chat, someone is being said about French?

Eldros

@RegDwight Oh yeah, that is classic

Jez

3:04 PM

some of English is Norman French

:-)

RegDwight

@FX_ Recency illusion.

Jez

reg: is that the chirac one?

Eldros

@FX_ coincidence

Robusto

Excuse me, "someone is being said about French"?

Eldros

@Jez no he is german

Rhodri

3:04 PM

The Normans weren't exactly French, though

RegDwight

@Jez Click and find out. It's the Internet. You can click on stuff.)))

Rhodri

Anyway, got to run. I have computers to pack into crates.

RegDwight

@Robusto He means that someone is being sad about French. Which is really nothing to be surprised about.

Robusto

Bonjour Tristesse

Bonjour Tristesse (in English, Hello Sadness) is a novel by Françoise Sagan. Published in 1954, when the author was only 18, it was an overnight sensation. The title is derived from a poem by Paul Éluard, "À peine défigurée," which begins with the lines "Adieu tristesse/ Bonjour tristesse..." The 1958 film Bonjour Tristesse featured Geoffrey Horne, Deborah Kerr, Jean Seberg and David Niven as the lead actors. The music was composed by Georges Auric. Plot summary Seventeen-year-old Cécile spends her summer in a villa on the French Riviera with her father and his mistress. Her father, Ray...

Martha

I do a double take every time I see Sarkozy and French in the same sentence.

Robusto

3:08 PM

Let's make Martha's head spin: Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French! Sarkozy and French!

Martha

Thwack.

Robusto

Wow, that was so weak it was mostly lower-case.

RegDwight

2 days ago, by Martha

I'm so sad, I'm all out of thwack.

Robusto

I think she's losing it.

Yeah.

Martha

It got my point across, didn't it?

RegDwight

3:09 PM

It's because we're talking about sad.

Which makes Martha sad.

Which in turn see above.

Robusto

Well, strictly speaking, it's the edge that does the thwacking, or actually the flat of the ruler. If you use the point, it's called a jab.

FX_

@RegDwight your sentence is self-referential

Robusto

So why I needs to be giving @Martha pointers about thwacking?

Martha

@Robusto Thwack.

FX_

no, wait, not self-referential, it's circular reasoning; this sentence is self-referential

RegDwight

3:10 PM

Feb 17 at 19:20, by Martha

OWWWW! That's terrible! THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK THWACK!

Robusto

@Martha — That all you got? Bring it.

@RegDwight — Clearly, she is but a shadow of her former self. I think the campaign has drained her.

Martha

I adjust my thwacking to the effort that went into the pun. You're being obvious, so I'm being "meh".

RegDwight

Sounds fair to me.

Robusto

Nice try, but no dice.

RegDwight

Close, but no Robusto.

FX_

3:12 PM

@Martha, if you're ever out of THWACK again, I can sell you some cheap counterfeit WHACK

obviously, some of the hoi oligoi here might notice, but for most uses, it will do just fine

Robusto

Don't fall for that trick, @Martha. Your account can get suspended for buying THWACK off the internetz.

RegDwight

In Soviet Russia, THWACK buys you!

Martha

@FX_ I dunno, I think it would be bad if I went around whacking people, doncha think?

FX_

@Martha ok, but think about it; change is exciting

they'll never now where the *ACK came from

RegDwight

I wonder why @Orbling is not registered on our meta.

I mean, ain't it a cozy place?

Martha

3:16 PM

It seems strange that you need to register separately for the meta.

RegDwight

(No jokes with Sar-cozy, please!)

@Martha I don't think I ever have, on any site of the network. I just click on the "meta" link, bam, I'm there. Registered, logged in, and everything.

Martha

So Orbling simply hasn't ever visited the meta?

RegDwight

That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Robusto

Funny, I thought meta was just a beta that was permanently stuck in limbo.

RegDwight

Just tried it out to be sure. On Project Management, where I don't even have any badges or anything on the main site. Just clicked on the "meta" link, and there I am.

RegDwight, Europe, GMT+1

101

Eldros

3:35 PM

Am I there?

Because I didn't went to meta

RegDwight

Lemme check.

Eldros

(at least I don't think so)

RegDwight

Eldros, Bretten, Germany

1.7k 8

discussion on-topic-off-topic retagging feature-request comments appropriate-questions

Eldros

No I mean meta.ProjectManagement.SE

I know I went to meta.EL&U

RegDwight

Oops, sorry, wrong site!

Looking in the right tab, no, you aren't there.

Eldros

3:39 PM

Ok then Orbling didn't went to meta.EL&U

Following Occam's Scissors principle

RegDwight

Well, I dunno, you're not on the main site of PM, either.

Are you sure you're registered there? And under the name "Eldros"?

Eldros

Uh, oops, no, the last SE site where I registered was webmaster not PM

RegDwight

Yup, you're there on the main site, but not on the meta.

Orbling

@RegDwight I avoid all metas like the plague.

RegDwight

Why? I mean, it's not like I'm visiting all of them every single day, either, but I don't make a conscious effort to avoid them.

Orbling

3:50 PM

@RegDwight Because generally speaking I tend to disagree with a lot of the decisions on SE, and would get in to arguments on meta.

RegDwight

Interesting. Especially given that you were one of the most active users in the recent Town Hall Chat.

Orbling

@RegDwight I'm fairly active on SE, within the next few days, I'll have 4 fanatic badges with luck.

RegDwight

I think I have 34 or something like that...

Orbling

Well I like EL&U best.

RegDwight

But not on metas. I don't even have the Fanatic badge on meta.ELU.

Orbling

3:53 PM

I only started using the network properly in November, so am a newcomer really.

RegDwight

Well, many sites are even younger than that.)))

Orbling

I'm tempted by so many, but I can't afford the time.

If I dip in, I'll stay in.

RegDwight

Yeah. That's a major problem for me, too. I have too many interests.

Orbling

Aye, same.

RegDwight

Also, this:

6 hours ago, by RegDwight

But I am worried about the Linguistics proposal.

Orbling

3:55 PM

It's a ruddy good job there's no History.SE.

Aye, I'll have to stay away from that.

I was concerned about the linguistics.SE, as I figured it would draw talent away from EL&U.

RegDwight

There was a proposal, I think I even followed it.

@Orbling Precisely my point. And then there are German LU, Japanese LU, etc.

59

History

Proposed Q&A site for people who like to study, discuss, analyze or generally know the world's history.

Currently in commitment.

Whoa, 29% already.

Orbling

@RegDwight Oh God.

That's the one stack I have to avoid. @51

Robusto

@RegDwight — I might fall prey to that one myself. Get thee behind me, Satan!

Orbling

There is a dire need for a more remedial maths stack.

RegDwight

Um, you need a third Maths SE?

Or like third and a half.

Orbling

3:59 PM

Are you including Stats as one?

RegDwight

As the half. Because there are actually an awful lot of cross-site dupes between Math.SE and CrossValidated.

Orbling

Math.SE is mainly populated with theorists, which makes for a deeply unwelcoming environment for the sort of maths questions that crop up on SO from the rank and file, which need migrating, but get ignored on Math.SE.

[Context as to interest: I've taught math a lot in the past.]

Anyhow, deeply off topic all that.

RegDwight

Interesting, I thought the very reason why we have Math was to avoid the insanity of MathOverflow.

Orbling

Yeah, that's what I thought....

RegDwight

In fact, I've seen a few familiar faces on Math. But not a single one on MathOverflow.

Orbling

4:05 PM

People seem to be confused, I got told by a senior person on Math.SE: "It's not elitism but genuine lack of interest. The purpose of mathoverflow is not to help you with your homework, but to stimulate collaboration among researchers. "

Now, this wasn't on mathoverflow... I pointed that out, no one seemed to care. Seems to be populated by the same crowd.

RegDwight

Oh wow.

Why would it? It's not like mathematicians have too much spare time.

Orbling

I would say it divides in to Math.SE = degree level maths; mathoverflow = postdoctoral.

RegDwight

Oh well. That's interesting. You're way better informed than me. I can only base my judgment on a couple visits now and then. Again, I remember seeing a few familiar faces on Math.SE, and most of the questions I visited were rather basic. Like the one about musical notes.

Orbling

Not saying they don't answer the basic questions, they are answered. But the answer level is inappropriate for the asker's ability. People with 1 rep are jumped on for not using correct MathJaX notation...

RegDwight

Now that is something to be brought up on meta.

Orbling

4:09 PM

Aye, but I don't use meta. ;-)

RegDwight

My point precisely. You should.))

Orbling

Perhaps, I am keen to be involved in the community. The main difference between EL&U and the other communities is that people here are nice.

RegDwight

This is the point where I have to admit that I am not involved enough with other sites to judge...

I don't even visit SO these days...

Robusto

The only time I asked a question on Math.SE they told me it was too hard.

So they're just a bunch of whiners, IMO.

Orbling

LOL, nice.

RegDwight

4:12 PM

I'm quite active on MSO, just for the fun of it. But come to think of it, I have no idea if the community on, say, OnStartups or Photographers or Cooking or Gaming is teh awesome or teh terrible. And I visit the last three quite frequently, actually.

Robusto

2

Q: Probability in single-lane traffic flow: What are the odds of "choke points" being encountered?

Let's say you have a single-lane road (single in this case meaning single lane in each direction, or what you could also call two-lane). Let's say you have a random number of vehicles on a given 10-mile stretch of road. The speed limit is 45 mph, but some people go faster and some go slower. Is ...

probability mathematical-modeling

Orbling

The very nature of a site like this attracts a lot of arrogant megalomaniacs. The concentration of these types in higher levels can be a bit irritating in certain stacks.

Robusto

I revised it downwards but still got nothing for my trouble.

Orbling

@Robusto Sounds like the buses together theory.

Robusto

Not familiar with that theory.

I borrow a phrase from Wallace Stevens and call it the "Genius of Misfortune" theory.

The law states pretty clearly that if you are behind a slow driver, as soon as you come to a passing zone there will be a car coming in the opposite direction.

Orbling

4:16 PM

If you live in London, the theory of buses arriving as a pack, rather than in their allotted temporal sockets is ingrained from birth.

RegDwight

@Robusto Sorry, but I have to ask: how did that question even occur to you?

You driving that much?

Robusto

No, I'm just that impatient.

Reread my profile comments.

Remember, road rage is the grandfather of nerd rage.

Martha

@Robusto The same thing applies to narrow points on the road: you can be driving for miles with no oncoming traffic, but as soon as you come to a narrow bridge, you'll have to share it with a big-ass truck.

RegDwight

I still have a follow-up question: so if they told you, here's the formula, how would you use it and in which circumstances? I mean, you would still be stuck in the exact same places. It's just that you would know in advance. Which you already do.

Robusto

If there was a legitimate formula, then I wouldn't have to take it personally.

RegDwight

4:21 PM

Well, here's one. f = 42.

Martha

Or passing a bicyclist.

RegDwight

Murphy's law

Murphy's law is an adage or epigram that is typically stated as: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". History The perceived perversity of the universe has long been a subject of comment, and precursors to the modern version of Murphy's law are not hard to find. Recent significant research in this area has been conducted by members of the American Dialect Society. ADS member Stephen Goranson has found a version of the law, not yet generalized or bearing that name, in a report by Alfred Holt at an 1877 meeting of an engineering society: It is found that anything that can go ...

Robusto

Yeah, I know. And nature always sides with the hidden flaw.

I still don't take a whole lot of comfort in that.

RegDwight

@Martha I'm a bicyclist, and I have the exact opposite problem. Whenever my bicycle is parked in my kitchen, no cars around. Like, zero. Not one to be seen. But any time I try to use it to get to work — cars everywhere. And people can't drive.

Robusto

Actually, it was on a bicycle that I first started to wonder about the "choke point" math.

This was when I used to commute on the bike path along Lake Michigan in Chicago.

RegDwight

4:25 PM

It's very dangerous to start wondering about anything while on a bicycle.

Robusto

Agreed. Three out of the four accidents I've had on a bike took place on a bike path.

RegDwight

Hm, what's the Bicycles proposal doing, BTW?

183

Bicycles – bicycles.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for people who build and repair bicycles, people who train cycling, or commute on bicycles.

Currently in public beta.

Still alive. Cool.

Then again, it appears to me that the powers that be just gave up on launching new sites altogether.

Robusto

Dou shite?

RegDwight

There are currently three proposals over the 200 days in beta mark.

And tomorrow there'll be four.

Jez

Hah

i just saw that german video link

Orbling

4:29 PM

@RegDwight Rebecca said the other day that they were now graduating on the basis of the right number of members being at the right sort of levels as well.

Jez

that is BS, questions get asked in English press conferences in foreign languages all the time

RegDwight

@Orbling I know. I was there, actually)) And I've been following Area51 very closely since its very inception.

Look at these stats:

217

Geographic Information Systems – gis.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for programmers, DBAs, Cartographers, Geographers and anyone interested in GIS professionally

Currently in public beta.

And it's still not out of beta?

Same with Home Improvement, Money, RPG, OnStartups, Robotics.

Orbling

@RegDwight Not a single 10k user on GIS though.

RegDwight

Well, it would be news to me that 10k users are a requirement now.

That will just take forever. On any site.

Orbling

@RegDwight I don't think they are per se. But her comment implied they would rather keep things in beta, than have staging posts on the permissions.

RegDwight

4:35 PM

in EL&U Town Hall Chat, yesterday, by RegDwight

@Orbling They have changed the Area51 process accordingly. It used to be that a site needed 200 (?) active users Now it's more fine-grained, 150 users with 200 rep, 10 users with 2k and 5 users with 3k are needed to graduate

in EL&U Town Hall Chat, yesterday, by Rebecca Chernoff

@Orbling Correct. This is what we do now.

Orbling

@RegDwight Ah right, couldn't remember the specifics. Well GIS is well past that.

RegDwight

Stack Overflow Blog: When Will My Site Graduate?

Posted by Robert Cartaino on October 20th, 2010

At 90 days into beta, we’re supposed to evaluate each Area 51 beta site and either “pass” or “fail” them as full Stack Exchange sites. Some sites feel they’re not going to make it.

The Geographic Information Systems SE site has one more day of beta. We are Excellent in Qs answered and answer ratio, Okay in visits/day and Worrying in number of questions and number of avid users.

Are the admins planning to shut us down?

Please don’t! We may be small, but we’re good and growing. I’ve been working in the GIS field for almost 15 years and been active on every applicable BBS, mailing list, online forum and wiki for that time. I can honestly state that GIS SE has something that all those others didn’t, and that something is valuable and worth nurturing. Give us some more time, please. Thanks. …

Hm, the THC was just yesterday? Feels like a week has passed, to me.

Orbling

I think GIS has more questions per day than cooking. Certainly feels like it.

I am really not sure of my opinion on having so many stacks.

RegDwight

Anyhow, my original comment, "the powers that be just gave up on launching new sites altogether", was kind of tongue-in-cheek. I'm sure they have their reasons. I just wonder what those reasons are. Perhaps Jin's simply on vacation?

Orbling

Gets unwieldy.

RegDwight

4:40 PM

@Orbling Yeah. Again, I'm a bit worried what happens when we have a LU for every language, and then Linguistics, and Languages, and Artificial Languages, and Translation, and Life in Russia, and whatnot.

I can't be on every site 25/8!

Orbling

@RegDwight Similar to the issue with MMO games. The user base only has so much time, it gets spread thin between them. Net result, a few with many users and most with few.

Jez

LU?

RegDwight

@Orbling Taking that one step further, SO will always remain the big huge giant whale. No point in even trying to reach its level.

@Jez Language & Usage.

Jez

oh right. hence my French language proposal

;-)

having an LU and a translation site for each language is going to result in too many sites

moreover, why stop at 2?

could separate it out into 'history of French'

maybe a separate sites for each different language translation

french-english

french-german, french-spanish, french-russian

Orbling

I would tend to keep a single translation site, and have all other sites in English.

RegDwight

4:53 PM

I'm currently following Le bon usage du français. The whole situation is a huge mess.

8

Q: On the multiple French sites

Currently, there are three sites about the French languages, including this one. While ultimately two of the three will have to be closed, this should not happen until after one successfully make it through Area51 as each of them take a different approach. On French Language & Usage, only qu...

culture

Orbling

Not because of jingoistic bias towards English, but because it is the all-speak of the times.

RegDwight

16

Q: Should we do anything about the huge language mess on Area51?

There's a long list of languages proposal on Area51, varying from an all encompassing language site to a focus one language site like the successful English Language & Usage. When I say they vary, I do mean that. As I just said, there's a site to contain all the languages question, whether...

discussion area51 stackexchange-2.0 languages

Jez

English is the lingua franca of the net

it isn't unreasonable to have it as a common language

yeah, im a jingo ;-)

Orbling

@Jez Exactly.

Jez

exactly to which bit? ;-)

Orbling

4:56 PM

@Jez The bit I hit reply to. ;-) [top + middle]

Jez

ah

RegDwight

@Jez Hover over Orbling's message with the mouse, or click on the little gray arrow before "@Jez". It will take you to the message he's replying to.

Jez

yeah. i forget usually as im used to irc.

RegDwight

Gotta go home. CU.

Orbling

@RegDwight Take care.

Martha

5:50 PM

I was just reading the blog post about Dori Smith. I've seen her around a few stacks - on the SF&F meta, she's the one who said the way to solve the question of "is it science fiction or fantasy" is to not ask the question in the first place - but hadn't realized she's a published author. Until I clicked through to the Amazon link and said, "wait a second, I have that Javascript book." And I looked, and sure enough, it says "Dori Smith" on the cover in big letters. Heh.

Kosmonaut

6:05 PM

0

Q: classical language

what are classical languages? How they are different from other languages? is English is an example of classical language.

language-evolution

I still think this was correctly closed.

What do others think?

Robusto

@Kosmonaut :

5 hours ago, by Robusto

Hey, if @Kosmonaut went ahead and closed this most excellent question:

Start reading there.

Kosmonaut

@Robusto: First of all, the question was voted by three others before I also voted to close.

Secondly, the question asks how classical languages are different from other languages.

This is not on topic.

It could be revised and become on topic: "What does classical mean in the sense of classical language?"

Then I would reopen it.

Robusto

Hey, I voted to close. Did you read my little discourse I just linked?

"closed as off topic by Robusto, FX_, RegDwight, Kosmonaut♦ 3 hours ago"

Martha

In other news, it is simply pouring rain right now. Glad I don't have to go anywhere in a hurry.

Robusto

@Martha: Same here.

Martha

6:13 PM

(I agree that the classical languages question, as asked, was off topic, and if it's edited, it could become on topic.)

Kosmonaut

@Robusto: So what is your point then?

Robusto

Your question assumes I have only one.

Or that I even have one. A commentary doesn't necessarily have to be making a point.

Kosmonaut

What does your Chat link have to do with the "classical language" question, if you are not suggesting that the question should have remained open?

Robusto

I'm saying if the one was closed, the other should be as well. But I have doubts that the first one should have been closed. But I'm also willing to sacrifice my own interests in the interest of the community at large.

Martha

@Kosmonaut, note that when those chat messages were posted, the classical languages question was not yet closed.

Kosmonaut

6:20 PM

@Robusto: Well, I still think the Yiddish question should certainly have been closed. And I say that as someone who loves the topic of creoles and pidgins, and who would have wanted to answer the question myself.

Robusto

I don't see the difference between the two questions, from a close/don't close perspective.

Martha

I don't think Kosmonaut does, either.

Kosmonaut

They both deserved to be closed.

You could use the "wanting to know the meaning of a word/phrase" argument to support a question like: "What is a Fourier Transform?"

Martha

Different subject: what is the phrases tag supposed to be for? I'm reading through the questions with this tag, and they seem to have very little in common.

Kosmonaut

Good question @Martha.

Robusto

6:23 PM

@Kosmonaut — This is just where you and I differ. I think the questions have a wider application.

Martha

14 mins ago, by Kosmonaut

It could be revised and become on topic: "What does classical mean in the sense of classical language?"

You can't really do that with "What is a Fourier Transform".

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Well, maybe you can, if you ask about the meaning of "transform".

Kosmonaut

Well @Martha, just because the "classical language" one can be saved doesn't mean that the justification for the question in its current state is sound.

Martha

Oh, I agree completely. I think we all agree that it needed to be closed, unless it got a fairly drastic edit.

Kosmonaut

In the case of creole, one could ask what creole means, certainly.

One could even ask "was English ever a creole?"

But this is what didn't work: "My question is really about what constitutes a creole language: what are its hallmarks and most distinguishing features, and do creole languages ever evolve to become "proper" languages (whatever that may mean) in their own right?"

Robusto

@Kosmonaut: And let's face facts. You closed my question with NO other votes. "closed as off topic by Kosmonaut♦ Feb 5 at 13:50" And that's what I was talking about when I said you arrogated too much power to yourself as a moderator. I stand by that criticism.

And after another mod had declared it on topic.

Maybe because we've had our little tiffs in chat, whatever. But you acted alone, and I'm not sure I agree your motives were entirely disinterested.

And even in the face of all that, I still supported your candidacy as moderator, and voted for you.

Kosmonaut

6:31 PM

Well, my motives were entirely disinterested.

Robusto

Then I wish to know what exactly you mean when you say "I have (I hope) shown that I am careful in my moderation decisions and strive to be fair."

Kosmonaut

I mean exactly what I said, of course.

Robusto

Oh, and btw, the question had been around for months: "asked Dec 3 '10 at 13:00"

Kosmonaut

Do you think "My question is really about what constitutes a creole language: what are its hallmarks and most distinguishing features, and do creole languages ever evolve to become "proper" languages (whatever that may mean) in their own right?" is on topic?

Robusto

From the standpoint of how one should use the term creole in English, yes I do.

Kosmonaut

6:35 PM

But you think that part is appropriate?

Robusto

Do you deem it inappropriate?

Kosmonaut

I don't see how that portion could be on topic without allowing just about any term in English Wikipedia.

Like "Fourier Transform"

Robusto

14 mins ago, by Robusto

@Kosmonaut — This is just where you and I differ. I think the questions have a wider application.

Kosmonaut

Can you be specific about how that paragraph fits?

Robusto

So far you've only given me an analogy and an admission of failure to comprehend how the question could be on topic. So what I take from that is that you are willing to close a question unless it falls within a narrow range of topicality which you reserve the right to define for yourself and apply as you wish.

And you count as nothing the input of others.

Kosmonaut

6:43 PM

I don't think I have failed to comprehend how the question could be on topic, I explained to you which portions seemed on topic, and which portions specifically were off-topic.

Robusto

So if any part of a question is deemed by you to be off-topic it should be closed?

Kosmonaut

The guidelines for on-topic and off-topic were discussed and decided on by the community.

Robusto

That's not an answer.

Kosmonaut

If any portion of a question is off-topic, that question is off-topic and either needs to be edited or closed. If, after closing, it is edited to be on-topic, it can be reopened.

Robusto

Then I think you may need to apply the same standard to the other 3,500+ questions on this site.

Kosmonaut

6:48 PM

I do, to the best of my ability.

Robusto

Anyway, I have to go to work. TTYL.

Kosmonaut

@Robusto: It really saddens me, the stuff you've said. I can make mistakes, but I really try hard to get this stuff right. I am really and truly bummed now.

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