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4:25 AM
Going from python to any language that requires semicolons is very disorienting
 
123
4:46 AM
Hello World...
 
 
3 hours later…
7:40 AM
@SirCumference on the other hand, no indentation required
 
7:55 AM
@SirCumference you young things don't know you're born
 
8:10 AM
Will you regale us of your tales of programming on punch cards
I will take the contrarian stance and claim that coding was easier in the 70's
Everything was fairly simple and straightforward, while modern programming is a lot of blackboxes
 
8:24 AM
I started out programming in assembler on an IBM OS370 mainframe. Now that takes cojones.
But I agree that programming now has become a lot harder than it was in the 1970s.
 
Sometimes I look at modern day low level stuff and it's like
How do you do anything properly
 
C++ has evolved into a maze of twisty passages all looking the same.
 
even stuff like if statements are filled with weird shit like branch prediction
not even getting into web services which are ubiquitous now
 
Only a masochist would write assembler for modern CPUs, especially for RISC CPUs. The compiler will do a better job of generating optimised assembler than any human could.
 
Yeah there's a lot of weird stuff to keep in mind if you do
like fetching instructions ahead of their use
which makes everything hard to predict
At least BASIC coding on a CPC is fairly straightforward
You put the value in the memory and the pixel changes on the screen
 
8:33 AM
Hi everyone
 
on a modern computer there's like 5 layers if you want to put a pixel
 
123
8:48 AM
Hi @JohnRennie sir
 
@123 hi :-)
 
123
What is the difference between Amperes law and Biot-Savart law
Amperes law is 1/r , and Biot-Savart law is 1/r^2. How it is possible to laws showing same phenomenon but different relationship.
 
They are different laws. They are not calculating the same thing.
 
9:24 AM
@JohnRennie hi, I hope you are alright.
In your answer https://physics.stackexchange.com/a/613479/197759 you wrote that the Kerr metric can't be written in a diagonal form. Why not?
 
@undefined The timelike Killing vector can't be made orthogonal to the spacelike hypersurfaces.
 
@JohnRennie thank you. Do you think someone has yet written a paper about that, explaining in detail why it is not possible?
 
I don't know to be honest. A Google should find something ...
 
9:39 AM
@NiharKarve that answer is a bit crap though
@NiharKarve that Cern paper is a bit niche. It describes some unusual metrics and the only reference to the Kerr metric is: Most notably, the Kerr metric, and all its generalizations, cannot be brought into diagonal form in holonomic coordinates due to the fact that its timelike Killing field fails to be hypersurface-orthogonal.
 
I'm not sure what more detail is necessarily here - isn't it just a fact that the Killing field is not orthogonal to the surfaces?
 
But how do you prove that there is no choice of coordinates in which the Killing field can be made orthogonal? After all, the spacelike hypersurfaces are dependent on the choice of coordinates.
 
I mean, is that something obviously which normally doesn't need more explanation? For me it would be interesting to figure out why it is not possible.
Yes, something like a proof which explain why its not possible
@ACuriousMind I would say that fact should have a proof somewhere somehow
 
@JohnRennie yeah I just picked the first two google results lol
I thought Ben Crowell's answer was ok at best
 
I think his answer is wrong, at least in the general case. The FLRW metric is not static and it can be written in diagonal form.
I believe, though I wouldn't swear to it, that there is no way to prove that a geometry cannot be written in a diagonal form.
 
9:54 AM
interesting, John
 
You can prove it can be diagonal by finding the appropriate coordinates, but failure to find suitable coordinates may just mean you haven't looked hard enough.
 
yes, maybe one just have to try harder
 
@undefined there are probably proofs for special cases i.e. it wouldn't surprise me to find a proof exists for the Kerr metric.
 
I do like the Kerr Metric very much. I would even say it's my fav one :)
 
The only problem is that it almost certainly doesn't describe real black holes inside the event horizon. The solution in the interior region is believed to be unstable to perturbations, though I'm not sure if this has been rigorously proved.
That almost certainly means we cannot jump through a rotating black hole and emerge in another universe - boo! :-)
 
9:59 AM
too bad
I love you, John, thank you for being here and answering my, mostly, weird physic questions :)
 
:-)
 
@undefined @JohnRennie There are plenty of sources that show that the "hypersurface orthogonality" condition is equivalent to the "Frobenius condition" (also just called "integrable" by mathematicians) $\xi \wedge \mathrm{d}\xi = 0$ for the one-form $\xi$ dual to the Killing vector, see e.g heiup.uni-heidelberg.de/reader/download/534/…
you really don't need to go looking for specific coordinates
 
OK, so for the Kerr geometry it is a straightforward proof.
 
ohh I have to look into this
thanks, ACuriousMind
 
Thanks @JohnRennie for your help with my previous question from a couple days ago [about photon velocity vs phase/group velocity] :)
it started as I had read a statement i'm not sure if it is correct, which stated a photon travels at speed of light in the vacuum between atoms.
whereas i always thought of the velocity being slower in a material due to refractive indices greater than 1.
 
10:15 AM
@antimony In a material the photon interacts with the electrons in the material and becomes entangled with them. So the object propagating in a dielectric is not purely a photon but a mixture of the photon and the electrons.
Where the interaction is strong, as in Bose-Einstein condensates, we get a distinct pseudoparticle called a polariton. For normal materials we probably wouldn't describe the photon-electron interaction as a polariton but rather a slightly perturbed photon.
Anyhow, one effect of the interaction is to give the photon an effective mass so it slows down.
 
ooh interesting, thanks is it more sensible to view a "new" photon at each interaction? (in which case it is reasonable to think of it travelling in a vacuum in between atoms?) tbh that idea of a vacuum "in between" atoms doesn't feel correct to me, as i could imagine the photon interacts with the electric field of more than one electron at a time?
 
since photons are indistinguishable it's not meaningful to ask whether it's a "new" photon or not :P
 
@ACuriousMind interesting, thanks. the reason i wondered that is because i understood the photon/electron interaction will not be deterministic, therefore i wondered if it is reasonable to view it like a state diagram
maybe i think i need more fundamentals to continue the discussion in a meaningful way
thanks @JohnRennie and @ACuriousMind
:)
 
it's more like John says - the thing that propagates is not "a photon" but more a disturbance in the material/the electrons as a whole
 
because the dipoles are rotating etc?
 
10:25 AM
but for weak interactions this disturbance is close enough to how a free photon behaves that "it's a photon with effective mass" is close enough
 
*material dipoles
ohh i see
 
I'm not sure what dipoles you're thinking of or why they would be rotating
 
that is amazing
the effective mass is borrowing some from the force interaction with electron's field?
 
it's quantum physics, you won't get a uniquely accurate description of "what really happens" :P
 
heheh
:)
 
10:27 AM
@ACuriousMind one day this will blow my mind because I almost can't stop thinking about this. And I can't get rid of the thought in my head that it still matters to ask whether its a "new" photon or not. I know, its kinda meaningless, because one is like the other.
 
as for dipoles, perhaps nevermind about that one. i was thinking of it like electrons shifting in a dielectric relative to the proton
but i really need more fundamentals
 
if you like, you can think of the photon being slowed down by being constantly absorbed and re-emitted with a slightly different direction (like a ball bouncing off of posts in its way), but to what extent this is a useful picture for anything other than pretending we "understand" what's going on it questionable
 
ahh yes yes @ACuriousMind that is what i meant about "new" as in re-emitted
 
@undefined Just wait until we have Star Trek-like beamers and you will have to ask if the "you" stepping out of the transporter at the other end is the same "you" that stepped into it ;)
 
hehe
 
10:31 AM
do you think its useful to imagine the photon always travels at the speed of light, but the absorbtion and re-emission process is what creates the delay equal to the reduced velocity of a material refractive index > 1 ?
tbh i didn't feel happy with this idea of photon "always travels at the speed of light" and i read it in a physics stack answer which was downvoted, but it said many things so i wasn't sure which thing was being downvoted
 
I personally don't think it's a very useful picture
 
thanks me too :)
 
isnt the absorption and re-emitting very ..."random"?
 
regarding photons mass/rest frame and "weird" states, I always like to link to this paper: rle.mit.edu/eapg/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/…
 
I believe in that picture, if light is incident at the same incident angle twice, then you might get two refracted rays at different angles
 
10:35 AM
@satan29 Classically it works this way. The oscillating electric field of the light makes the electrons in the dielectric oscillate, then those oscillating charges re-emit an EM field.
 
The messier concept that John alluded to - that the thing that propagates is not really "the photon" but a messy disturbance made out of a photon and many electrons that bears some resemblance to a free photon - is closer to what the QM formalism really computes when we analyze this state
 
The emitted field has a small phase large, and when you superpose the fields the net result is an EM field travelling slower than the speed of light.
 
hmm
 
But I'm not sure this is a useful way of thinking about it in a QM context.
 
ohh thanks for the paper recommendation @undefined i'll check it
@JohnRennie sorry what did you mean "The emitted field has a small phase large" ?
 
10:41 AM
i think he meant lag
 
ahh gotcha thanks
tbh i'm quite happy to have different layers/models with different approaches
just to find a coherent way to move between them
the mind bender for me was when i read that the scattering angle is not deterministic.
and eg. a ray's refraction angle (re. Snell's law), could be considered the constructive superposition of all possible scattering angle states <-- if i interpreted that QM idea properly
 
@antimony oops, yes, "phase lag"
 
ahh lovely thanks
 
@antimony that's true in classical optics as well. It's the Huygens construction.
 
@JohnRennie yes!!! that's what got me so excited about this. seeing the parallel to Huygens, it was like FINALLY something i can visualise!!
to think someone can conceive of this in 1600s....
pure genius
well i would love to stay up late and chat about it, but alas time for bed. night and thanks :)
i'm already late for bed
 
10:52 AM
@antimony man, I miss these days
 
the days of getting excited?
or of those classic days when physics was being discovered?
 
when I had a fixed time for sleep
 
oh haha, well mine is so i can be productive for tomorrow
 
 
2 hours later…
fqq
12:56 PM
@ACuriousMind is that Bartelmann's book?
 
that's Bartelmann's lecture notes I think (the wide margins are characteristic for his notes)
I don't know how similar they might be to any book he's written
or it might be the book, actually
ah, it's a bunch of lecture notes he's released as a book under cc, the full book is at heiup.uni-heidelberg.de/catalog/book/534
3
 
niiice, thnx
for sharing
 
fqq
1:49 PM
are there any books/lecture notes providing a clear/concise/more or less rigorous reference regarding twist fields?
 
 
1 hour later…
2:54 PM
@fqq what is your specialisation within physics?
and/or interests
 
3:43 PM
My lecturer said we can raise and lower indices only on tensorial object. Like it is not correct to lower an index on total derivative of a velocity field wrt to tau because it isn’t a tensor.....Is this right?
If what he said is right why do we lower an index on the Christoeffel symbol which are not tensors
 
lowering indices is a notational device, you can do whatever you want
 
So can we lower index fees n non tensorial objects too
*on
 
4:09 PM
@Slereah can we raise indices on non tensors too and my lecturer is wrong
 
4:19 PM
what do you think raising indices means
 
@RyanUnger contracting with the metric tensor.
we shouldn’t raise or lower index on non tensors (as Caroll asks not to lower indices on Christoffel symbols)....But in Dirac’s book, Dirac has shown that lowering indices on tensors can be done just like that for tensors ...(I don’t think how that make sense, it looks like an abuse of notation unless someone here can clarify what is correct and what is not)
 
what is preventing you from doing that on non tensors
you can write it down
does not not define it
 
4:36 PM
If I lower index on the total derivative of velocity field (not the absolute derivative), I will get the wrong geodesic equation (for contravariant velocity field)...raising and lowering indices on such non tensors will give such contradictions. So I assume it should not be done
 
 
6 hours later…
11:05 PM
I’m still confused about a post I wrote in the chat some days ago regarding the field of a moving point charge (constant velocity). First it seemed natural that the field would be pointing along the current position of the charge, however upon closer thought it seems it should be along the retarded position instead since that is the field that one observes...
Maybe there is no intuition behind it. It shouldn’t violate causality since the charge is moving at a constant velocity and there is no causality to begin with, i.e. changes in velocity.
 
11:20 PM
is it just the time it takes for the field to propagate to the observer?
(i'm more asking than telling ^)
 

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