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12:08 AM
I have a question about this answer: in its current state, it is a snippet/expression, rather than a full program or function. Is it still valid or should it be flagged as an invalid submission?
I'd either flag for mod deletion (the mods will go through the whole "this is invalid, flag to be undeleted if/when it's fixed) or, because they're a low-rep user, drop a link to the meta post on snippets, along with an explanation, then follow up in a couple of days (i.e. flag for mod deletion if not fixed)
The answer is unambiguously a snippet, but the challenge may allow snippets (it says "or evaluate to')
(and yes, that means my comment that I presume brought this to people's attention may also be incorrect)
Given that it doesn't explicitly say that snippets are allowed, I think going by site default's a better idea than trying to figure out what someone may have meant
The JavaScript answer would also be invalid then. Close the question as unclear.
12:16 AM
That rule is, in my opinion, stupid, but I guess it also renders the dispute over whether the challenge is unclear moot.
I've cast a close vote, and I'm now going to do a search for "[code-golf] -shortest is:q closed:0" and close vote every question listed there.
It is kinda nitpicky given that the winning criteria for code golf is pretty clear
> 4,039 results
Good luck with that :P
Plus that misses challenges with stuff like "This is code-golf, so please make your program as short as possible!"
I was exaggerating.
I was never actually planning to go through and robotically close questions without reading them.
Yeah, I know. Just thought it'd be interesting to explore
In fact, when a problem is that obviously widespread, I tend to lose the motivation to tackle it at all
I generally wouldn't bother systematically tackling it, but rather if I see a question/answer/post with a specific problem, I'll edit/flag/close it and move on
Poor post formatting is my number one enemy on the site :P
12:28 AM
My #1 enemy is old invalid answers, which I do tackle somewhat systematically
In fact, me running my SEDE query to look at all answers by 1-rep users is what got this tangent started
That's up there too :P And now that I've got the 20k rep tools, you know I'll be casting VTDs on bad answers :P
Besides, if I were to actually do that, I suspect they would be reviewed as "leave open"
3 hours later…
3:37 AM
@cairdcoinheringaahing and ... the question passed the Close Vote review queue
I've seen this policy-enforcement contradiction play out far too many times.
4:36 AM
@pppery I cast a CV because it doesn’t have the winning criteria in the question, and even if I don’t 100% agree it’s necessary, that’s the meta policy. People in the queue may not be aware of that though
If it had the criteria in the question tho, I wouldn’t be convinced it’s unclear simply because of “evaluate”, especially since it’s from 2012
I think a lot of people's opinion on things like that is that, this being a site mostly for fun, small issues aren't worth closing a challenge for.
1. Including the [code-golf] tag is viewed as sufficient to indicate the winning criteria. In that case, a new meta question about that needs to be asked.
2. Including the [code-golf] tag is not viewed as sufficient to indicate the winning criteria. In that case, the question needs to be closed.

The current state of affairs is patently self-contradictory.
I see no reason why the best choice is to close the challenge instead of just appending "This is , shortest answer in bytes per language wins."
Unless the author goes out of their way to change the meaning of code golf, which would constitute an explanation of the winning criterion, it can be assumed to be the default. Closing the challenge as unclear just doesn't seem reasonable to me.
@RedwolfPrograms Agreed
It doesn't seem reasonable to me either, but my reading of the linked policy forces me to do so.
4:47 AM
It says nothing about closing the question. In fact, the main reason given for requiring the explanation is so new users understand what code golf means, which editing it into the question would easily fix with pretty much no negative results in any situation.
But the point is that question closure is temporary. Things can always be reopened
But there's no reason to go through the trouble of closing and reopening when editing it immediately would almost never result in a worse outcome.
Yeah, fixing immediately is better than closing and then fixing
Also, as a new-ish user, having a question closed over a tiny issue is very demoralizing. There's also the risk it won't get enough votes to reopen.
This actually seems like a good debate to bring up in meta, I'll think I'll post there after AOC
I agree
5 minutes to AOC
4:56 AM
I spent all of today writing a prototype of a language for AOC, excited to test it
and boom, you get an assembly interpreter challenge
Has every year of AOC introduced a programming language at some point?
(2 minutes)
2015 and 2018 had some, 2019 had Intcode
4:59 AM
guess who's not going for ranking?
Done, 115/38
@Lyxal me
@Razetime wrong. the answer was me.
5:12 AM
I'll give up on going for ranking in the next week or so, since AOC unlocks at midnight my timezone and I don't want to stay up too late.
anyway this looks like a repeated replacement thing
@pppery sleep is overrated
I should have just used Javascript, still trying to hunt weird errors
i definitely need to practice using python's regex library
My python code with the 115/38 didn't use regex (although maybe I should have)
i spent like 3 minutes waffling on how much regex to use
5:25 AM
@RedwolfPrograms i did so badly today ngl
I'm still trhying to figure out why my part 1 won;t work
@RedwolfPrograms 0 is no instead
bag. for last in list; not bags
@ASCII-only but did you do 737 453 badly
recursively figuring out which bags are in where
@UnrelatedString yes.
5:26 AM
452 434
that is not 737 453 badly
but it's close
AAAH it said at least one other bag :(
were you off by 1
I got 269 and it was 268 :(
Off by ones have killed me twice now
Oh lol I did part 1
5:30 AM
one funny thing is i was more thinking about how to solve star 2 than about star 1 before i actually knew what star 2 was
@RedwolfPrograms same lmaoooooo
@UnrelatedString funny thing is for the last few star 2 is just star 1 but inverted
yep lol
Dang string parsing again
yea thats what got me in part 1
one of the shiny gold bags was by itself
so it was bag. and since i was dumb (didn't assume all bags were <qualifier> <color>) - it didn't count as a shiny gold bag
so it ended up saying 6 was the answer
It's just not my taste
in that I can solve them perfectly well but it just takes more time than other kinds of problems
5:41 AM
Ahhh I'm so stupid, I forgot to count the bags themselves in part two, only recurse through them until it got to an empty one, so of course it summed to 0
tbh what slowed me down more was probably the recursive membership checks, not to mention the fact that it wasn't like a direct relationship
@RedwolfPrograms same... you must be me
I did better than yesterday, but still around 2000th place :/
I was doing great until yesterday
it doesn't help that I had an off-by-one error by counting the shiny gold one, and I forgot to reload the source while testing and was like "I fixed the +1 but why is it still giving me +1"
in part 2
Day       Time  Rank  Score       Time  Rank  Score
  7   00:25:04  1804      0   00:32:50  1213      0
5:47 AM
Day       Time  Rank  Score       Time  Rank  Score
  7   00:27:41  2122      0   00:41:52  1911      0
7 00:29:37 2374 0 00:46:53 2271 0
pog champ
Day       Time  Rank  Score       Time  Rank  Score
  7   00:16:40   737      0   00:21:57   453      0
I'm more happy I solved the problem than what my rank was
...wow, look at the stats page
it's been 47 minutes
I think from now on I'll worry less about my leaderboard placement
5:48 AM
and only 2370 people have completed it
It took me a while to understand the recursion part of the question
from now on i'm going to worry more about my leaderboard placement
Definitely more people went straight to sleep when they saw the input format
i have dropped from third to fourth on our private leaderboard
this cannot stand
If anyone wants to see my solutions they're here, but they're written in half-finished programming language so you probably won't get anything remotely useful out of them
5:52 AM
Half my solutions are parsing the bags and the other half is recursion on the bag tree
For some reason my "remove string based on regex" function was replacing the matched string with a newline instead of an empty string, which was...annoying
Well that's why they say using regex gives you two problems
I used str.split and splices lol
It's not even regex it's just me :(
It's at least lucky that I forgot to convert the "dicts" to actual hashmaps, but still the code ran quickly enough
5:54 AM
Did anyone see my file extension?
It's very long and scary
s/scary/so beautiful I couldn't think of the right words
nobody wants to see my part1 and part2
not even me
I want to
too bad im not at the laptop i did it on
it's so cursed
if you're lucky you'll get to see it tomorrow or something
6:00 AM
;-; sorry
Am I the only one who prefers ¯\(._.)/¯ over ¯\_(ツ)_/¯?
yes because that guy dont have elbows
6:17 AM
how is it that more than half as many people as finished both stars have only finished one
if you've finished star 1, then you've already gotten the input parsing out of the way, and you've figured out how t go one direction through that graph
so how big of a step is it to, given that, then go the other way
Well, sometimes you get a mindblock when trying to go the opposite direction
which is more frequent for less experienced solvers
7:16 AM
string parsing is pain
7:48 AM
ok finally finished it
4 hours later…
11:47 AM
I'm having issue in below code, can anyone help me to figure it out? (ruby)
2 hours later…
1:20 PM
@RahulVerma this is a bit odd
2:00 PM
@Razetime thanks, I was thinking that I'm lost
will try it on PC, then
CMC: Given a triple of integers [a,b,c] representing a quadratic, output the discriminant of that quadratic
2:20 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing APL, 19: Try it online!
JS: q=>q[1]**2-4*q[0]*q[2]
@cairdcoinheringaahing Jelly, 10 bytes ṙ1µḢ²_P×4Ɗ
What should I title my meta question about the explanation argument? Should I make it specifically about that, or more general?
@RedwolfPrograms Is this about "Should we close a question for not having the winning criteria in the question, or should we just edit it in?"
2:26 PM
"How to deal with questions without an explicit winning criteria?"
I'm thinking about generalizing it to any small issue where the author's intent is pretty obvious, to avoid more similar disagreements in the future
That seems like a different discussion to me
Okay, I'll just go with your suggested title.
We require challenges to have a winning criteria, and if there's confusion about some part of that, it's probably better as a separate question
A question which asks "Can we edit in clarifications implied by the challenge author?" could be work asking as well in a more general sense
Might be useful depending on the result of this question; if there's a lot of support for just editing it it may be worthwhile to ask the more general question after
2:32 PM
@Razetime 2⊃×⍨-4×2×/⍤↑2∘⌽
@Adám forgot about 18.0 lol
Here's my draft of the meta question, I'll post it in a few minutes. Let me know if there's anything unclear or biased.
I think I'm going to replace "immediately edited" with "directly edited"
2 hours later…
4:25 PM
The difference in speed between NMetaP and NMainP is huge :/
4:39 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Ruby: 18 bytes, Try it online!
5:16 PM
Q: How to deal with questions that do not explain their winning criterion?

Redwolf ProgramsRecently there's been a bit of a discussion in chat about this challenge. It was put into the close vote queue as unclear, with the main reason being that it didn't state the winning criterion in the question (though it was tagged as code golf). The requirement to include a description of the win...

1 hour later…
6:36 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AdámKen Iverson’s Favourite APL Expression? Today is Ken Iverson's centenary. In his honour, we'll implement his favourite expression. Given a row of Pascal's triangle, compute the next row. This can for example be computed by summing adjacent pairs, and putting a 1 at both ends. Test ca...

3 hours later…
9:17 PM
Ok, so here's something: 5 users have >500 edits according to the Editors page. This doesn't include self edits or tag edits. 3 users have the Copy Editor bagde, which requires "Edit 500 posts (excluding own or deleted posts and tag edits)."
Either something's weird here, or Xcoder and WW have edited a lot of now-deleted posts and deleted posts count towards total edits but not the Copy Editor badge
The copy editor badge doesn't include tag edits. The "Editors" tab does.
@pppery I just tested it, it doesn't. I had 470 edits before I made this tag edit, it still says 470 for me
Nope, just update lag
the editors tab now shows you with 471 edits.
Q: Is it a still-life?

SpitemasterThe Problem: You receive a (section of) a Conway's Game of Life grid. Your task is to output whether it represents a still-life (subsequent generations are identical to the current grid), a oscillator of period up to 4 (every nth generation is identical to the current grid), or something else. T...

@pppery Very weird. It's still showing 470 on my laptop, but on my phone, 471 :/
9:26 PM
The difference in people who have completed day 7 vs 6 of AOC is still 50% larger than the difference in people who have completed day 2 vs 1
10:25 PM
Huh, looks like Winter Bash is starting in little over a week
11:05 PM
To whoever keeps VTCing things as unclear, it would be helpful if you posted a comment explaining why. I can't find anything wrong with most of the challenges that have been in the VTC queue for the past few days.

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