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12:00 AM
I understand where you are coming from, and I stated why such a clear answer is likely to impact future discussion about the issue at hand. You are framing a discussion in a way that creates a baseline that favours that position without representing the nuance involved, as the baseline for future discussion.
We are in a position where the proposal doesn't represent the status of the majority vote at the time but takes a cutoff vote from months ago. It is insincere to have that as a faq. I think we are doing active harm by stating that as part of the faq and legitimising it that way. Would you have proposed this when there was a significant margin for either vote, then I wouldn't have an issue with this.
 
@Akixkisu It is a baseline that favours "status-quo". As all policy discussions do. We have to start from somewhere and I fail to see how any complicated middleground would be more productive to discussion than the current enforced policy.
 
@linksassin no, we can wait until we have solid grounds to propose a faq and meanwhile refer to the messy discussion as it is.
 
@Akixkisu I agree that would be better. If I could go back in time and post it then I would.
@Akixkisu Without a baseline I don't believe "solid ground" will ever be achieved. We are trying to foster a more productive discussion than the mess there has been up to this point.
 
And we can keep the status quo of going by majority vote on the said discussion - we have done this before, and as far as I know, this is how we handle every other issue.
If we have a paradigm shift of how we establish policy, by changing from the status quo of deferring to majority vote, then it certainly makes things easier.
 
The problem with majority vote on a changing vote count is that is required us to check the vote count every time we try to say anything. The worst possible outcome would be every post stating "Votes were +1 pro policy at time of posting" or similar.
 
12:15 AM
@linksassin That is why we propose it when there is a window of opportunity where we can defer to a substantial majority vote. That window isn't right now, we currently have a narrow vote that favours a different approach from the one stated in the proposal, and this was the case when you proposed.
 
@linksassin The obsession with the term 'policy' by a small but very vocal minority of this stack is worrying.
 
Ash
Maybe it's because I came from elseplace on SE, where we dealt with things like this (Identify This Game etc), it feels weird to me that like...a decision has been made, it seems to be mostly working for y'all, it makes sense (because assuming things can just mean more problems later), and yet these discussions keep popping up
And to be honest, I can't figure out why
Beyond maybe "not enough people clearly agreed" but...at some point, you gotta make a choice.
Maybe I'm missing a thing.
 
I mean, we know why this iteration of it came up; a known instigator identified a sore spot and poked it until people got riled up.
 
Ash
@BESW Oh, I think I missed that.
Sorry, new job means I'm not in chat as much.
 
As for why it's a sore spot in the first place... I'm not close enough to it to speculate usefully.
 
Ben
12:20 AM
MOrning
 
@Ben morning!
 
Ben
How are we today
 
How's the 'do less' plan?
 
Ben
Not working XD
 
@Akixkisu I get where you are coming from. We should have posted it sooner, but it doesn't make it any less valid. That post represents the only version that ever did have a clear majority vote and therefore formed the community norm since that time. Votes have changed since then, but it is unclear entirely what that means. Until that can be clarified it is beneficial to have a clearer statement that we can point users (new or old) to explain why a question was closed.
 
Ben
12:22 AM
I'm doing less, which is only allowing me to do more of other stuff
 
Ash
@Ben ah yes, the "something has popped up to fill this hole in my time" thing that happens
 
@Ash I think it boils down to "people don't like being told not to answer a question they think they can answer on a site about answering questions"
4
 
@Ben is it Parkinson's Law striking again?
 
Ash
I suppose that makes a little sense, we ran into similar with ITG but it died down after a while
 
Ben
I've gone from spending 4 nights a week doing extra-curricular, to spending that time working on cleaning the house and other odd jobs. I'm really not good at this whole "me-time" thing'
 
Ash
12:25 AM
Me time is haaaard
3
 
@Rubiksmoose honestly, that's fundamentally the problem
with the whole hostile environment for new users on the side, because it's difficult to reconcile the enshrined value of inclusivity with practice that will discourage new users from continued participation
 
@KorvinStarmast TBH I agree, 'best practice' would probably be better terminology but really it is a nitpick. In this case 'policy' was the clearest term that aids the communication of what that post is trying to achieve.
 
Ben
@AncientSwordRage I think it's similar at least. It's that I've got the time to do things I wouldn;t otherwise get done - dishes, cleaning, washing, etc.
 
@linksassin it makes it less valid by the process, but it doesn't make it any less useful. The proposal is towards a good end, formulated concisely and represents an effort to achieve good by its utility. An faq should refer to the current state of the stack and its member's consensus, so there is a right way to go about it.
We revisit these topics to do that, and the current iteration is what we should defer to, not one that stands for a consensus of members long past. I think we all wish that it was a more clear cut case, but it isn't.
 
I think I'm a little toooo good at me time sometimes XD
that's part of why I forced myself to go out once a week before,... covid
 
12:33 AM
@Akixkisu That's fair. And it is basically the reason we didn't just go ahead and make it the FAQ target immediately.
 
Yeah it took us a while because we wanted things to settle and not keep riling things up.
Unfortunately this issue refuses to settle
 
@Ben how were they getting done before?
Also, anything else exciting fall out of Tasha's?
 
Ben
Well, in truth there is a lot of change going on in my life atm. I was living alone, so I didn't have much to do, I'd sit at home until 2am watching tv/playing games, order out when I was feeling lazy (i.e. most of the time), and I didn't do anything in the house because I'd get home at 8pm anyway (at the earilest)
 
@linksassin with warmest regards, the problem with the term policy is that it has connotations, and I find that it is far too often used as a bludgeon due to those connotations. Best practice is a far more neutral term, and also less likely to be abused by those whose predilection is to do just that: use 'policy' as a bludgeon. A few days back someone quoted a BESW comment here in chat about practices/praxis. I'd like to see that approach accepted as a better way forward.
 
@Ben I can sympathize!
 
Ben
12:44 AM
Now I'm living with my partner and her two boys, I get home by 7, and there's more to do, so I feel like I need to do more
 
@KorvinStarmast I'll have a think about changes I can make to reflect that.
 
Ben
I'm still in the middle of moving, adjusting to a very different lifestyle, spending time with my partner and the boys, helping around the house... I have noticed that I just do things, rather than planning them
 
@linksassin this is an amalgam of volunteers offering their time and effort to aid and abet a hobby. Policy has no place here except for a few critical site wide issues on general behavior; we (the volunteers) don't do this for pay.
@linksassin Many thanks and your efforts at facilitating this discussion is deeply appreciated.
 
@Ben not that I want to be an armchair psychologist, but have you considered whether you have adult adhd?
 
Ben
I know I have minor ocd. And my mentality as to why I do things is because it's to help achieve the goal of a "tidy house" (I know, and am comfortable with the fact that it's not going to be tidy/clean until the boys move out - which I'm fine with). But I have never thought that would be a possibility.
Just did a quick google, and I'd say I probably tick the box for roughly 50% of the symptoms
 
12:52 AM
I've popped something up on the question about "5E" being necessary and sufficient.
 
@Ben that might be enough
 
Ben
Might have a look into it
I'm pretty sure I didn't have ADHD as a kid though
 
There's a lot of variation and nuance to ADHD that doesn't get recognized, it often doesn't look like the "expected" behaviors.
 
yeah
I am still grappling with the fact that I got a diagnosis for ADD/ADHD and completely disregarded it because I had a very fixed and likely inaccurate idea of what it meant
and it apparently has comorbidity with autism as well so
 
Yeah, there are many past behaviors/traits of mine that made a lot more sense once I learned about ADHD.
 
Ben
1:06 AM
Just did a couple of online quizzes, and both have said 50/50
 
XD
 
Ben
or borderline
 
I mean, those are online quizes so grain of salt
XD
 
Ben
Yeah, it was more just to see if it applied at all.
 
I mean I'm not against online quizes
I think at the very least they are fun
but I also don't think anyone should let them dictate "this is what you are like" or pigeonhole you in some way
 
Ben
1:08 AM
If it said "YUP" then that alone would convince me enough to see a doc, if it said "NUP" then I'd probably put it down to something else. But since someone else has already suggested it, and it's going "eehhh... maybe?" then I'll take a look
 
@linksassin so the weird thing for me around that "what is the don't guess the system policy?" FAQ meta is that it makes no mention of the fact we've been also discussing things case by case, and we have been doing that, and the latest time we kinda-sorta did that, someone decided it was a closed matter—as in, voted to close as a duplicate of that meta post: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/11294/…
 
@trogdor 👋
 
I am not sure to what extent it's because of the user's phrasing though, like "how do we avoid these disagreements"
So I'm not sure what significance to attribute to this data point
 
@doppelgreener Notably all three times we've done that, close votes eventually happened :(
 
Ben
I mean, after dealing with undiagnosed epilepsy for a year and a half, I've got the mindset that I'd prefer to get a clear answer, regardless of what the answer is, rather than trying to fumble around and deal with it on a daily basis.
 
1:11 AM
@AncientSwordRage hmm?
 
@trogdor I definitely have ADHD and strongly suspect I've got a pinch of autism as well
 
ah fair enough
 
3/4 of my mum's siblings are on the spectrum
 
I've been diagnosed separately for both
 
@Medix2 that's been a bummer surrounded by several other distinctly bummer things
 
1:13 AM
@Medix2 Yeah. I believe one of those questions was by me, about mentions of "Adventurers League" - admittedly, IIRC, it was a bad example (due to additional reading-into-things by me, since I think the question mentioned "AL" but I automatically interpreted that as referring to Adventurers League), but it still wasn't a duplicate.
 
@V2Blast Oh I mean the Chronugy Wizard and whatever Domain thingamabob
 
ah, I see what you mean
 
Where the per-question Metas were closed
 
@trogdor I sent of a form to get rediagnosed and filled in the autism questions as well, but then pandemic happened
 
Mine wasn't about the specific question but asking generally about whether "Adventurers League" could be interpreted as referring to D&D 5e's Adventurers League, I think. (EDIT: Found it - wasn't my meta post, but I made the original mainsite edit, and was annoyed about the question on meta being closed as a dupe of the "what to do if an edit guesses the system" meta - closing that as a dupe was basically begging the question)
 
1:15 AM
and honestly I don't want to put stock into diagnosis toooo much but at the same time,... my brain definitely works differently than the "normal standard" and the easiest ways to express that fact seems to be those diagnosis...es?
 
I'm definitely not ready for a "Should we allow per-question Metas" question but... People certainly are in different camps there too
 
@AncientSwordRage ouch
 
@trogdor sounds about right
 
there's no other easy shorthand than a name and a diagnosis
and communities have already formed around those words
so I use it
XD
 
@NautArch Drop me a line in Discord next time you've got a minute, please.
 
Ben
1:17 AM
I should ask my sisters if they have any similar things. So far I have Epilepsy, anxiety/depression, (at least minor) ocd, and now potentially adult add/adhd XD
 
@Ben again, not a diagnosis
I am not a doctor
 
Ben
I do have a shunt (placed in at 6 months) due to an overly large brain sac (whatever it's called... the fluid sac that sits in between the two halves of your brain) but dunno if that's related to any of it.
@AncientSwordRage No, no... not saying I do have it. just saying I might, which will be confirmed by someone who can give me a diagnosis lol'
Confirmend/denied
AS the case may be
@Ash I know what I want to do... and I know what I need to do to get that to happen, but that's more work for something that will require work to establish/maintain until it becomes a habit/desire.
 
Ash
@Ben that makes a lot of sense to me
 
@ben lots of good ADHD creators to follow.on twitter if that floats your goat.
 
Ben
I don't have twitter haha
 
1:27 AM
I mentioned that as seeing what they were sharing made me see the similarities between.me and them
@Ben ah fair
 
Ash
@Ben I should know what this is called but I just know the name of the liquid! (I've a VP shunt. Technically two, but one stopped working so they were like well it would be more trauma to take it out so we will just put one in the other side)
 
@AncientSwordRage yeah there's one,.. ADHD Alien I think?
I have looked at a lot of those
and they have at least partially convinced me that I might have been wrong to just reject that diagnosis altogether
 
Ash
@trogdor I like ADHD Alien, there's a few others I also like but I can't remember em now
 
Ben
@Ash Yup. Reason #1 why I'm not in the army. Less risk to keep it in
 
@trogdor yeah that's one. DaniDonovan, BlackGirlLostKeys, HowToADHD are some others
 
1:35 AM
@KorvinStarmast did you still need something moved?
 
Ash
1:47 AM
@Ben that makes sense
@AncientSwordRage yes! I second all of those
 
So, lots of people had already figured this out but: "user-024673" is now exposed as a user with a year-long pattern of stirring up trouble until they get suspended and then coming back with a name change to repeat their behaviour. I trust the mods are moving through the molasses that is official Stack Exchange action on serial bad-faith actors.
2
The chat room owners are taking the long-overdue stance that user-024673/gszavae/jgn/etc has lost the privilege of talking 'policy' in chat. This person can talk about TRPGs with the same expectation of standards as everyone here, but if they try to talk about Stack protocols in General Chat, the NAB, HTBD, or other common-use side rooms, they will get a swift kick-mute.
8
I'd like to acknowledge all the people who conducted themselves with grace and dignity while interacting with this user, and thank you for your patience.
@Ash It's not exactly the same, but I've seen a lot of people saying that Ursula Vernon's sharing of her adult ADHD journey has been super helpful to them.
 
Ash
@BESW I have also found that helpful!
She's good at breaking through the like "I'm all alone in this" brain patterns of NAT stuff
 
@JohnP I finally finished all the rift war books!
 
@NautArch All? As in the original trilogy or the entire set?
 
@BESW I was diagnosed as a kid but I feel like I have to point out that I don't think they are different conditions of the brain, I think brain science is stuck on an absurd idea that you somehow like, change brains magically once you hit arbitrary adulthood XD
 
2:01 AM
@linksassin entire set
 
@NautArch Impressive. I've got about 3-4 of the sub-series. Though I've found most of it doesn't quite reach the quality of the original.
 
@BESW yes!
 
@linksassin some are touch and go, but there's some good stuff in there.
The end was both good and meh.
Felt like campaign fanfic, but good fanfic.
 
@trogdor the brain is at best a wibbly-wobbly occasionally conscious blemonge
2
 
Lol
 
Ash
2:09 AM
Brains are always weird. We just notice the weird differently at different whens.
5
 
@AncientSwordRage I love this spelling of blancmange.
 
@BESW You're just making this up to get a higher scrabble score!
 
@Ash I think you need to make this an inspirational Instagram picture with the loopy wedding font.
 
@BESW dyslexia strikes again! KO!
 
@AncientSwordRage dysgraphia threatens dyslexia! Dysphoria, commenting, mentions something about self esteem!
 
2:16 AM
@Ash the way I see it, everyone has a weird brain but society has zeroed in on only very particular ways that brains are different and stigmatized it
:/
unfortunately
 
@BESW I keep going back to this spelling and thinking yes that's right but also no
 
Ash
@BESW omg yes
 
Literally “white dish” but probably meant “bland dish.” (Blank, bland, etc, emerge from the same root which also meant white.)
 
Ash
@AncientSwordRage it made sense phonetically!
 
Ben
@trogdor the magic of understanding. Somehow that makes it sound really morbid
 
2:22 AM
@Ben what makes what sound morbid?
 
Ash
@BESW well, white food might be closer, if we are coming from French? I think? (also to this day I don't know what it is other than a food.)
 
Ben
"We magically switch brains when we reach adulthood." I then replied with the magic of understating (reality)
 
Creamy sweet jello mold.
Often almondy.
Had similar names in a lot of different languages before we decided French is the official language of making boring foods sound fancy,.
 
@Ben ah yeah well,... I have a morbid view of how we classify brains because I feel it causes direct and indirect harm to a lot of people that we assume the way we classify brains right now is even remotely ok XD
 
Ash
@BESW for some reason in my head I decided it was something like oatmeal
 
2:30 AM
@BESW lol
 
Ben
@trogdor My brain isn't lumpy enough to be able to read that correctly on the first go XD
 
sorry XD
I said it horribly
 
Ben
All good haha. That's what coffee is for
 
and I can't even edit it now
 
Ben
Be like the koala; ironically brilliant.
I'm not even sure that's related to anything, or if it's just something my brain just farted out.
 
2:36 AM
I'm just really sick of the trend in media and other things that says to treat people in this weird way because we can
and because "oh their brains don't work exactly the same way as mine, time to treat them as lesser people"
 
Ben
@trogdor This is one of the reasons I want to start a blog (which I probably won't - I'll just continue to post rants on my FB page). Can and should are not exclusive.
I.e. just because I can certainly does not mean that I should.
There are a lot of issues surrounding the behaviours created by the internet, I believe. First and foremost being disassociation and (lack of) accountability
 
not to say that the wrong kind of use of the internet can't cause those things, but those have also been problems for a long time as well XD
 
 
1 hour later…
3:45 AM
PSA: don’t call your best friend an alkali metal, even as a compliment. They will not take it well.
Especially not after their d&d character blew up an ocean
 
Ben
...Sodium?
 
@Ben no, I called him potassium cause of what he used on the ocean
 
Ben
@BardicWizard [quick google] seems they both work in a similar way lol (could be wrong).
What happened?
 
@BardicWizard [takes notes]
 
4:01 AM
3
Q: Can the Telekinetic Feat from Tasha's knock a creature prone?

pirateorionTasha's makes official a new feat called Telekinetic which allows a caster, as a bonus action, to telekinetically shove one creature. It goes on to dictate you can move the creature 5 feet toward or away from you. So, is it a shove limited to only the 5 feet of movement or is it shove as defined ...

8
Q: Does putting an Air Elemental in a Bag of Holding create an air supply?

SeraphsWrathElementals don't need to breathe, eat, or sleep, thanks to their Elemental Nature (MM p. 123). This means that one could survive indefinitely in a Bag of Holding. An Air Elemental using its Air Form ability could enter a creature's space and stop there, effectively engulfing a PC in air. While th...

 
@Ben our group did a special one shot for like an hour to celebrate none of us failing first quarter, since the grades were formally sent out this weekend
things kinda went out of control since we were trying not to think much
even though we probably should have been doing hw
since there’s now only 3w to first semester finals
but anyways they were trying to come up with the craziest way to get across a lake
and my friend grabbed a nearby potassium shipment and tossed it into the lake
(The grade reports were really late this year because COVID; last year we did this in like October )
 
@BardicWizard wild
 
Ben
Maybe you should have gone with "no need to react so violently"
I'll leave
 
I thought by giving them something to blow the lake up they would find a non-explosive solution
oh how wrong i was
 
4:19 AM
@BardicWizard That doesn't sound like most DND parties. If you give them a powerful explosive, they will probably use it.
 
Ben
[cough] fireball [cough]
Last session we had a room [the library] that had been overrun by small nesting insects that had repurposed all the pages into nesting material, and had practically infested the entire room. My character (the rogue) wanted to leave ASAP so I opted to investigate the room to speed things up while the others explored the other rooms for loot.
Upon fumbling the stealth check, my immediate reaction was to use a torch and a vial of oil as a molotov to deal with the massive swarm of angry insects.
In all honesty all it really managed to achieve was piss off the huge swarm, incapacitate myself as they swarmed me, and then piss off the librarian
But it was worth it
 
4:49 AM
@linksassin: Is now a good time to pass out DND planet busters? I've found at least two of them.
Ran across this question rpg.stackexchange.com/q/82267/22420 and got the dumb idea to stack the cloak of the manta ray with the helm of water breathing. The helm of water breathing is an old item intended for merfolk to use on land. It provides water to breathe. Mix these magic items, something unusual should happen.
 
4
Q: Is there a limit on the number of Proficiency Swaps as part of Customizing Your Origin in Tasha's?

pirateorionTasha's has a section on replacing proficiencies granted by race in the section on customizing your origin and provides the example of swapping elven proficiency with a longbow for a tool proficiency. Does that mean you could swap all 4 weapon proficiencies from Elven Weapon Training for any 4 we...

 
Ben
5:02 AM
@Joshua I had a Minotaur that had the Cloak of the Manta Ray. Didn't end up using it, he was better known for drinking potions of growth and remodeling doorways, and earning himself the title of "The Kool-Aid Cow"
"Oh no... *Oh no...*"
"MOOOOO"
 
lol
I think I'm going to get back to work on my story of the city that didn't win against the mountain.
 
Ben
But that post gave me the picture of a minotaur with the Cap and Cloak, wandering around on land, holding his breath in a bubble of water and free-style swimming as he walked
 
nice
 
5:42 AM
5
Q: Does a Divine Soul Sorcerer have access to the additional cleric spells in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything?

CyanicAdditional Cleric Spells 1st-level cleric feature The spells in the following list expand the cleric spell list in the Player’s Handbook. The list is organized by spell level, not character level. Divine Magic When your Spellcasting feature lets you learn or replace a sorcerer cantrip or a sor...

 
Ben
6:27 AM
Ha. While it's not the same as having a rounded/even/wholesome number for rep, I currently have 107 questions and 107 answers.
 
Viditya Voleti has a couple of big questions for Tasha.
2
 
Tasha?
 
@trogdor Tasha as in Tasha’s cauldron of everything
 
ooh
 
The new 5e compendium that just came out.
 
6:41 AM
ah ok that would explain why I had no idea what the heck it was
XD
both because it's new and because I don't exactly keep up with 5E
 
Ugh I’ve been trying to get a friend to text me back all day and it’s nearly eleven pm and she still hasn’t responded
And I kinda needed her to get back to me before I finished the presentation
Group projects suck
 
Agreed.
 
6:58 AM
group projects shouldn't exist
every single one I have been in has had at least one person who didn't do any work and skated by on the fact that other people were doing it
also, even when that was only one person out of like at least 4 or something, combining schoolwork with socialization just wasn't a great combo or my favorite thing ever
I have incredibly strong opinions against group projects
 
Ben
 
 
1 hour later…
8:43 AM
@trogdor And this is why I enjoyed group projects: Because my professors would fail group members who didn't participate and help with the project to a meaningful and reasonable degree. If you just had your group do all the work, you don't get to take credit for it
 
yeah but it's still increased work for everyone who did,... actually work on it
 
Maybe I just had good classmates, teachers, trust systems, or something, but every time I've been in a group where somebody didn't do their work, things ended well and with the teacher knowing their expectations wouldn't be fully met at no fault of the group and the group knowing they wouldn't suffer for things completely outside their control and the failing individual knowing they had let down numerous groups
@trogdor Ah, only if the teacher expects them to make up for the missing person
Guess I've just had understanding professors...
 
well they assigned the project to lets say 3 people
that's presumably meant to be 3 people's worth of work
unless they know ahead of time someone isn't going to work on it,... it's not going to be reduced
 
Yeah but if one person just doesn't contribute then that's an extra 50% work per person. I would hope the teacher recognizes this and takes it into account that these other students were having to go well above and beyond all the rest
Like... I'm kinda baffled that a teacher might go "Oh, you had to do 150% of the work at 100% the quality and you're telling me you just couldn't do it? You deserve a bad grade"
 
yeah but my problem with it isn't just the grade, it's the extra pressure and work being done in the first place
 
8:51 AM
I know professors do do that. I just continue to be baffled by the, to me, unreasonable and illogical expectation that involves
@trogdor Ah, yeah I guess I never really felt that since I mentally fell back on "this doesn't need to be 100% perfect; the professor will know that this was made more difficult for us and won't expect it to be as good". I don't know if actually put in less effort than I otherwise would have, but I rationalized that I could
Which is definitely built on numerous assumptions and classroom expectations that not every student has
 
9:18 AM
yeah
 
 
2 hours later…
11:26 AM
@NautArch prolly not
 
11:52 AM
@V2Blast Aha, there's the comment I was remembering a few weeks ago, about gate keeping. Now I need to remember who I was talking to when I referred to it; in chat, or in a meta discussion. arrgh
 
12:26 PM
@KorvinStarmast I remember you mentioning it, but I can't find it
 
1:00 PM
@KorvinStarmast Based on my research, you havent said the word gatekeeping or the words gate keeping in chat this year until just now.
@KorvinStarmast Here's the only undeleted comment where you mention gatekeeping: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/9312/…
 
@KorvinStarmast i don't think that's a great example of gatekeeping. That person didn't back up their answer, we asked them to, but they opted not to continue. Do you think the language asking for support wasn't good?
@Ben Did you just kind of walk away from your meta? It still seems pretty unclear, and the answer you accepted doesn't seem to actually answer your intended question. I'm kinda confused.
 
I read through that, and I think the person who posted that answer flew off the handle way too easily
User posted one answer, got asked if it could be backed up with personal experience, and then cried "Gatekeeping!" and left.
Seems like a totally reasonable and well adjusted response
 
1:19 PM
I guess its technically gatekeeping. Gatekeeping doesnt have to be discriminatory based on race, sex, gender, etc. We were gatekeeping based on quality of content.
That said, using gatekeeping to describe discrimination based on actual merit is probably a bad idea.
 
Let's not get all "technically the dictionary says it also means" about terms of art that are clear in context.
 
Right, using gatekeeping to describe things that are not a problem can diminish the significance of actual discriminatory gatekeeping.
 
And this is NOT an example of gatekeeping.
 
I'm not sure use of the term gatekeeping for merit/quality-based gatekeeping is something new or some sort of rare technicality. At a minimum, it seems consistent with usage to refer to non-experts talking as if experts, dating at least to the dawn of the Internet, and possibly even earlier.
 
I think it's pretty clear what the difference is, though.
and no reason to focus on the 'technically correct' when we understand what we're talking about
 
1:32 PM
The specific definition is:
> the activity of controlling, and usually limiting, general access to something.
We aren't limiting general access in this instance
At least, I don't think we are
 
@RevenantBacon Given that 'we' (the stack, not me personally) are occasionally deleting answers for lack of support instead of just downvoting them, I think at least sometimes 'we' are, but this need not be a bad thing.
 
Again, there is a difference between the dictionary definition of gatekeeping and the real world issues of those who suffer from actual gatekeeping
 
@NautArch Right, its important to keep that distinction in mind.
 
Given it is the latter we are discussing, focusing on the technically correct dictionary definition really has nothing to do with this
 
Dictionaries are like maps: useful overviews but not the territory. Especially when it comes to issues of marginalized experiences and fast-moving terminology, dictionaries can lag decades behind practice.
 
1:37 PM
but more importantly, how did I miss snoop dogg dropped a kids lullaby album?!
5
 
That's one of the least real sounding real things I've heard in a while.
 
I mean, it's at least in the medium we most associate with him. People in this chat totally lost their cool when I first mentioned that Kareem Abdul-Jabbar wrote a Holmes novel.
 
1:53 PM
do we have a question about detect magic detecting magic users?
 
@ThomasMarkov i think so
 
I found it.
 
sounds super familiar
 
2:06 PM
@NautArch Hey, can you review comments here and express your agreement or disagreement with my take: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/177607/62294
 
looks good to me. Friendly and with a recommended course of action.
 
@NautArch Actually, as I think through this, it wasn't the best example and I think that the one I remember most clearly was either from a deleted question, or the comment was deleted. I do think that the responses to the poor answer were about par for the course. The point is about 'received hostility' not intended hostility, and now I know what I was talking about. My discussion with KRyan in meta comments the other day
Thanks to all for helping me with a bad memory day
 
@KorvinStarmast There are definitely examples of unhappiness around system clarification. But there are also examples of users learning and becoming active.
 
Ah, OK, I don't usually use the term "gate keeping" in speech nor in writing, so I was unaware of how loaded of a term that it is.
It appears to be one of those neologisms that is easily abused or used badly ...
Kind of like sentiment of "What, you want me to write in grammatically correct sentences? You are an elitist!" that I've seen on forums now and again ...
@BESW applause
 
2:22 PM
@KorvinStarmast I finally got an answer to my concern here: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/11?m=55704609#55704609
 
@ThomasMarkov All good things come to he who waits
 
Not exactly how I imagined finding out they were okay. The big reveal made me nostalgic of finding out who Darth Vader was for the first time.
This question needs some edit work but its outside my expertise.
 
@ThomasMarkov Outside my area as well. The only experience I have with 2e is the The Keep on the Borderlands box set
 
My last AD&D experience was high school. Simply don't' remember enough.
 
@ThomasMarkov I made an edit but I can't find a ref to giant kin bows so far in my 2e stuff. Been ages since I played it, and that never came up. Drawing a blank.
 
2:36 PM
My only experience with AD&D was that episode of Community.
 
My only experience pre 3.5 is Baldur's gate (2e?), and my uncle telling me about his Ranger/Wizard (1e?)
 
2:50 PM
@ThomasMarkov Since I don't have 'The Complete Book of Humanoids' anywhere I am not sure I can help with that Giant-kin question
 
3:20 PM
2
Q: Shield Spell and triggering effects of damage not taken

KirtA Shield spell is cast as a reaction to an attack that hits. It applies its AC bonus even against the attack to which it is a reaction, meaning that it can make that attack that hit, retroactively miss and thereby not do damage. Shield 'interrupts'/potentially cancels its trigger, as stated in t...

 
3:58 PM
@BESW This this. So much this. Like seriously, the history of dictionaries and the things they've tried to do is appalling (the American Heritage Dictionary can kindly heck off btw), and the number of people who continue to use them as precise, exacting definitions with no wiggle room while not even acknowledging that countless other dictionaries exist is... Gosh I could take about prescriptivism all damn day
 
Re: the earlier discussion about gatekeeping. While gatekeeping is a real phenomenon we should be aware of, being endemic in sections of our hobby and on many related online communities, I think it's overall not the most fruitful course of action to start playing the semantics game about what is or is not gatekeeping when confronted with such accusations.
Instead, we should take a step back and reflect that ok, this is something we chose to did, this is how it turned out, could we have done something better to prevent this.
 
GcL
No true scottsman would play the semantics game /S
@Medix2 On teh othir hand, how do you feal about werds beeng speled corectly?
 
@GcL Well, we can just edit those for clarity. Spelling can be a major problem for those with dyslexia and ELLs (and plenty others), so it should be fixed when within reason (civilisation is not misspelt).
2
 
@kviiri I don't think there was much we could have done in the situation cited by Korvin.
 
GcL
@Medix2 Isn't civilisation the repurposing of military equipment for peaceful uses? /S
@ThomasMarkov Ugh... oversized weapons were already a thing in 2e. Actually, I think I know somebody who has the book they're reading from. The STR is odd. Usually it's only 18 Str that has the subcategory denoted by 18/X.
 
4:20 PM
@kviiri I concur. Focus on the results of the action, rather than the motivations. Obviously SSD wasn't intending to discourage Quickdraw from contributing, but that was how Quickdraw felt. Not sure what could have been done better, but perhaps there is some better approach in the future
I like the first part of xanderh's comment:
> @quickdraw We're not saying that parallel life experiences aren't valid here, we're just saying that answers need to be backed up. So if you have had good experiences with what you suggested in your answer (or doing something similar as a theatre director), include that in your answer. Show us how your answer solves the problem stated in the question.
Before they mention the "gatekeeping" semantics, it is a sound response to a concern about parallel experiences
 
In case people were wondering about one of the reasons I've had to spend less time on the site recently see here (CW: sickness, health, COVID).
 
@Rubiksmoose I'm sorry to hear; I hope your wife makes a full recovery without complications. :)
 
(sorry to drop that in here like that, I just had a rare free moment)
@DavidCoffron thanks :)
 
do we have an optimization question for maximum hitpoints?
I've found a really weird way to increase your max hp
 
@KorvinStarmast I took a peek at an extremely illicit copy of it, but it's been so long since I've played AD&D and I don't have even the basic books anymore. I have an outline for a response but I can't back any of it up.
 
4:27 PM
8
Q: What is the highest hit points that one character can have?

Réda SGHYARBy reading others questions like Highest damage in one melee attack and Highest AC possible. How many hit points can a character have, and also highest achievable hit points possible in an instant? Conditions: We're looking at a level 20 character and no multiclassing. Feats are allowed. Magic i...

 
Rules dont allow the magic item required RIP
At least, I think this works, Ill ask the question.
Nah, not gonna ask it. It clearly works.
MAybe it doesnt.
Gonna ask it.
 
@ThomasMarkov No! I like my answer, don't beat it :P
 
@DavidCoffron It's about a magic item from Wildemount, so you dont have to worry.
@DavidCoffron in your answer, whats your hp at 1st level?
and con modifier
 
@ThomasMarkov 16
 
Con mod?
 
4:34 PM
@ThomasMarkov +3 at level 1; +10 after all the Manuals of Health
(if you get the magic items at level 1 then the HP is 24
 
+3? You sure its not +4?
+3 would be 15 hp for a 1st level barb right?
 
Hill Dwarf gives another
 
Ben Barden's answer beats mine though with true polymorph if you allow rolling all the hit dice when evaluating the monster
 
So this item could add 5 hp to your max if you used it at level 1
I think.
 
GcL
4:36 PM
Is there a limit to the number of times an epic boon can be granted?
 
@GcL Can't benefit from the same more than once (same name feature)
But otherwise, no
 
@DavidCoffron Someone alleged that that rule doesnt apply to boons
let me find it
 
@ThomasMarkov Wouldn't work for that question since it is limited to DMG tables for Magic Items (couldn't even use Blackrazer for more Temporary Hit Points since its in the DMG, but not on a table)
 
Yeah i knoe
 
@NautArch - Awesome! You're up on me for that. How was the ending?
 
4:38 PM
@Glazius Rats. I have access to the core books and a few others. Not sure I could be of help, and I don't have that volume.
 
@JohnP it wasn't bad, but the storyline felt a bit forced.
Like that generation was basically very similar to the characters in the first books.
 
This answer states:
> Since Epic Boons are not " spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, [or] magic items" (DMG errata) and no other text includes epic boons within the definition of 'game features', they are not subject to the DMG errata that broadened the prohibition on magical effects with the same name stacking to all 'game features'.
 
@NautArch That's what I had heard.
 
Which isn't bad persay, but it was weird.
 
@ThomasMarkov Ring of Temporal Salvation?
 
4:40 PM
@DavidCoffron yeah
 
This past weekend I got to see the first three episodes for this season's Mandalorian. Ep 1 not bad, Ep 2 dragged, Ep 3: OK, finally, getting back to the better feel
 
@KorvinStarmast Nah, I can spot you the basics. 1d8 is good damage for a bow (basic bow is 1d6), you can fire it multiple times per round, firbolgs are capped at 19 strength but if you got a giant bow with a 19 strength draw that's +7 damage so it's a junior version of that "thog power attack" comic, but they don't actually get bow proficiency as a racial, that's the wood giants, so you'll need to find another way to do it and get the mastercraft.
 
@DavidCoffron Question is up if you want to answer it.
 
@ThomasMarkov That's a neat effect. 18 definitely beats the 12 from Barbarian; if you later Reincarnate to get Hill Dwarf, you can get +6 to my answer
 
0
Q: Can the Ring of Temporal Salvation permanently increase your maximum hitpoints?

Thomas MarkovThe Ring of Temporal Salvation says (emphasis mine): If you die while wearing this gray crystal ring, you vanish and reappear in an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the space you left (or the nearest unoccupied space). You have a number of hit points equal to 3d6 + your Constitution modifier. I...

 
4:43 PM
@Glazius I am not sure that helps the querent, and the lack of proficiency is a stunner. Are you basing your proficiency observation on the MM, or the Complete Guide (which IIRC allows for the humanoid PC character ...) I would think that a bow proficiency would come with a PC class ... but I'm a bit rusty on my 2e stuff
(As, in, you can pick a weapon to be proficient with if you are a Firbolg Ranger ...)
 
GcL
@ThomasMarkov Found it: "The text of a boon addresses its user. Unless a boon says otherwise, a character can’t gain it more than once."
Although, I don't see any boons in the DMG that say they can be gained more than once.
 
mmmm there are some weird interactions with this item.
do we have an optimization question for minimum hitpoints?
I've found it for 3.5, but not for 5e
I can create a level 20 character with a max hp of 1.
 
@ThomasMarkov how????
 
Ring of Temporal Salvation and Dust of the Mummy.
:56192701 RoTS only changes your max hp if the roll exceeds your max hp.
Dust of the Mummy kills you by setting your max hp to 0
 
4:58 PM
@ThomasMarkov Right. You have to have your HP Max reduced first
 
Or a -1 CON mod and also rolling a 1 on every HP roll ever. Well, except for the automatic max HP at level 1
What does the mummy dust do?
 
> The cursed creature can’t regain hit points, and its hit point maximum decreases by 10 (3d6) for every 24 hours that elapse. If the curse reduces the creature’s hit point maximum to 0, the creature dies, and its body turns to dust.
So you die by hitting max hp 0, RoTS brings you back to life
 
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