TRPG General Chat

12:31 AM

@GcL Not really for me, I like knowing the people I work with/for. She is friendly and we chat about non work stuff in our monthly 1:1's but no real upside that I can see.

Everything that I could consider an upside has an offsetting downside.

Example: I'm left alone to do my work, but there is no feedback neg or positive, So I just assume that in the absence of angry emails, I'm doing a good job.

Thomas Markov

12:46 AM

@Ben Hey Ben, I left a clarifying question on your meta post if you have some time to look at it.

Ben

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, I've seen them and at this point I'm really not sure how to clarify further. The question itself isn't in the normal scope of what we normally ask here, so there's a lot of confusion around it.

The inspiration for the question was that people were linking to SA.eu a lot, when JC's tweets were still official. Now, we don't (as much).

I wanted to know how much that has changed, and it's not really something that can be clearly defined (obviously now), without perhaps some digging and statistics

Which is why I accepted @Medix2's answer - it's along the lines of what I was trying to look for, if only form one person's perspective

Thomas Markov

So you were more looking for usage metrics of Sa.eu content on rpg.se?

Ben

And how much the change in JC's official > unofficial tweets have affected that, yeah

Thomas Markov

I see. Well my answer didn’t address that at all hahahaha

Ben

I figured there would be some confusion around the topic. I had troubles wording it (took me three tries to get what I have)

Hot RPG Questions

1:24 AM

9

Q: How to Build a Combat Viable Cyberpunk 2020 Character that DOES NOT Use Guns

I am a first time player of Cyberpunk 2020 and I am eight sessions into a campaign with a party of four. We have a Rockerboy, a Solo, a Nomad, and a Fixer (me). When I started making the character I did not really want to focus on using exclusively guns nor did I want to get so cybered up that I ...

cyberpunk-2020

6

Q: How to alleviate the tedium of PC death at higher levels?

In our high-level Pathfinder game, player characters die relatively often, whether to save-or-die or just to high damage. When a PC dies, then players either defeat the enemy or escape, and unless the player wants to start playing a new character, they then teleport to a safe place, bring the cor...

pathfinder-1e gm-techniques character-death

Bardic Wizard

@HotRPGQuestions perhaps consider why these deaths are happening. If it’s the GM’s fault maybe reevaluate what you’re doing and why

KorvinStarmast

1:39 AM

@GcL This song's for you. :)

BESW

Oct 23 '14 at 22:38, by BESW

Death as a default outcome for failure, when looked at purely from a mechanical standpoint, is almost always tragically boring: it's either trivialised through resurrection mechanics, or it makes the story grind to a halt.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP 21st century schizoid man : King Crimson Predicted all this 50 + years ago

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast That is...a bit of an assault on the ears if you aren't expecting it. Who or what is King Crimson?

KorvinStarmast

Oh, Man, King Crimson was where the guys from Emerson, Lake and Palmer got their start, and the base player for Bad Company as well. Acid Rock, though.

I met a guy who was a roadie for King Crimson back in 2017 at an herb garden in Michigan ... life's weird. We sat down and had about six pints and talked 60's and 70's rock. Wife was pissed ...

@JohnP When I turn Goldern Earring's "Radar Love" up to full blast she leaves the room ... such is life.

Ben

1:54 AM

For anyone interested

0

Q: Using alternative phrases to "meanwhile" or "elsewhen" to describe a non-linear flow of time as two consecutive events

I am currently writing a "time-travel" themed story that is more of a first-person perspective of all involved characters, and I want it to include the before and after reactions to the "time-travel" event. So as an example, the reader gets a look at the perspective of the time-traveler, perhaps ...

time-depiction phrasing

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP 50 years later, this still works - no wonder they used it for the sound track of The Departed Coppola's certainly good at what he does

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast I love that song...

@KorvinStarmast Great song too

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP And I just put Dire Straits Money For Nothing on --- good times, she likes that one. ;)

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast I had dire straits hits going on my run last night. Heavy fuel, calling elvis, brothers in arms, walk of life, etc.

Love heavy fuel for some reason.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP Oh, yeah!!!!!

And Tunnel of Love and Roller Girl ... aach, I am dating myself

Money for Nothing has one of the purest rock guitar riffs ever ...

... the song is kind of meta, but the musicianship is exceptional.

I tried for a lot of years to try and play that riff... on my own, could not figure it out.

JohnP

2:04 AM

@KorvinStarmast dating yourself is legal in Alabama...

KorvinStarmast

... and darnit, I don't live there. And now, I have to live like a refugee ....

JohnP

@KorvinStarmast Not so much a riff, but watching the guitarists from Dragonforce always puts me in awe.

KorvinStarmast

yeah, they be good

JohnP

Esp when they are both speed hammering on the same guitar... freaks man, freaks.

KorvinStarmast

@JohnP Great example of someone taking a craft, and going All In on their craft.

@JohnP Momma just made home made Pho, so off I go to yummy din din ...

JohnP

2:06 AM

DragonForce - Through the Fire and Flames (Official Video)

►

@KorvinStarmast bah. Go go, have nummy food. :p

Ben

Brooklyn Nine-Nine - Boyle Spills Pho on the Cam (Episode Highlight)

►

Sorry, it was literally the first thing to pop into my head when I read that XD

Thomas Markov

2:45 AM

Anyone else thinks it’s bad form posting answers from Tasha’s before it’s even released?

Ben

@ThomasMarkov Over on Arqade q's and a's about content pre-release is immediately closed/dv'd/deleted

Thomas Markov

Like, I’m pretty sure the only way to be able answer from Tasha’s is through pirated material or an NDA violation. Right?

@V2Blast Thoughts?

V2Blast

3:29 AM

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, much of the book was leaked online due to it accidentally being available early via Fantasy Grounds due to a screwup on their part. That said, it's impossible to actually properly cite material from Tasha's before the official release... Because it's not actually out yet. So such answers should probably be downvoted.

That said, it's a bit of a moot point at this point, as the book starts to go live on D&D Beyond in about 1.5 hours.

...Though I think I've seen some people mention that their local game store has had the book on shelves already, even before the release date. So it's possible to have legally (from the customer's end, anyway) purchased the book and gotten access to it that way. Though the fact that the 2 answers in question don't even cite the page number or section of the book makes me suspect that's not the case here...

KorvinStarmast

4:03 AM

@ThomasMarkov yep. The GiTP folks can't help themselves, though ...

@V2Blast dv inbound

Xirema

4:40 AM

That awkward moment when your player rolls a nat-20 on their deception check to convince the BBEG to allow the party to just walk out of the room, but then when I ask the player to narrate how they convince them, they accidentally spill the beans. 🙃

(I did allow the cleric to make a modest deception check to jump in and save him from himself)

BESW

4:58 AM

Heh. That's a major reason I'm a fan of letting social rolls substitute for, rather than augment, roleplay.

Otherwise it just turns into a question of the player's actual social skills, which isn't how we handle things like swordplay or wizardry so why should it be different for things like knowing how to lie?

Xirema

@BESW It is the reason I [try to] do the "roll the check, then you can roleplay the interaction" system, but sometimes stuff like this happens instead. 🤣

BESW

[hits the Script Change "rewind" button]

linksassin

@BESW Agreed, we've had that problem when our usual face character was playing a 7 cha cleric. The DM at the time set the DC of persuasion based on the quality of your roleplay so this player ended up better at social stuff than the 20 cha sorcerer simply because of his player's personality.

BESW

@linksassin I've been that player!

linksassin

After that experience I actively try to avoid being that player.

Though that very player is responsible for two of the greatest roleplay mistakes we've ever had.

BESW

5:02 AM

(Side note: this is also a problem with "Charisma" as a stat; it's an unreasonable combination of multiple axes of competence.)

linksassin

Once was trying to chat up a target at a swanky party, told the guy "John at the bar is a friend of mine, he gives me free drinks". Target was the owner of the bar.

Xirema

@linksassin 😂

linksassin

Another time he was cornered while infiltrating a base, so convinced his pursuers to chase the rest of the party instead since they were the real threat. Forgetting he was meant to be a distraction for the stealth mission.

Great charisma and roleplayer, not so great on the notetaking and remembering important details.

Xirema

@linksassin Those are the kinds of situations where I ad-hoc call for an Intelligence check to see if the PC corrects themselves before they make that mistake.

Although ad-hoc Intelligence checks are basically my "let's see if your character remembers something the player clearly forgot" check.

Bardic Wizard

My group tends to let the roll determine the overall outcome, but we talk it out for fun. Then again it’s the group where we’ve all done some stuff for the school play at one point or another. Most of us aren’t actors but if you work with them enough you pick stuff up. Except apparently how to flirt...

linksassin

5:06 AM

@Xirema Yeah, it wasn't how I would handle it now. But it was my first campaign as a player and still fun.

Xirema

In other news, my voice is shot because I gave the BBEG a voice and cadence inspired by the character Royce Bracket, and his intonation is so hard to get right.

linksassin

@Xirema Oof, I just listened to an example. No way I could keep that up for any length of time.

MikeQ

Ah, I was mixing up Royce's journal entries with the character's voice. It's been a while.

Xirema

@linksassin My rules are "kind of rambles, kind of repeats himself, but also has a really wide vocabulary", and it seems to have worked so far.

BESW

@BardicWizard My first time GMing (also my first time with TRPGs ever), the very first session, one player decided he was gonna try to pick up a barmaid, and everybody looked to me to see the example I'd set for this kind of scene. In a group that was, so far as was known at the time, all cishet men.

The player clearly didn't think I was gonna go for it, it was kind of a macho "testing to see how far he could push" thing. So instead I leaned into it until the player who initiated it got so uncomfortable he called for a veil.

That definitely influenced a lot of my path as a GM since, and I'd handle it very differently now.

Bardic Wizard

5:16 AM

@BESW oof. This incident was this weekend — I was the flirter, with the Carmen Trick I may have mentioned. It didn’t work well since I’m a demiromantic asexual person who’s only had three crushes and can’t flirt to save my life IRL anyways. We skipped to the social roll right about then.

linksassin

5:26 AM

@BardicWizard For me my sister and my wife are players in my group. They once went into a brothel to meet a contact, conversation lasted all of 20 seconds before all went "nope too weird" and faded to black.

Bardic Wizard

@linksassin in this case it was completely non-sexual, just meant as a way of getting information and freedom by dancing with the person and offering him a flower, then pinning the blame on him when they escaped

trogdor

yeah I'm completely uncomfortable having that stuff in a game XD

Bardic Wizard

5:51 AM

@trogdor same, as are all the people I play with. Granted, the oldest person in any of my groups in a non-monitored space is 16 (it’s me and one other kid) so by default we avoid that stuff anyways

trogdor

fair enough

Medix2

6:52 AM

Ugh

What even is this: "When is it OK to assume the system without it being considered a guess?"

Like, a secret revisit between the revisit and re-revisit? A question-specific thing? Something we can act on (I infinitely highly doubt that)? A question with no current meaning?

@user-024673 I so very much doubt that. If anything I'd immediately assume the re-revisit takes precedence, or, at the very least, it certainly has been doing that

You definitely cannot edit in a system tag, under any circumstances (besides per-question Meta consensus and possibly the results of the re-visit of the term "5e"). That's what the re-revisit policy just states

@user-024673 The re-revisit definitely revisits that exact issue

@user-024673 The one titled "re-revisiting the don't guess the system policy"

@user-024673 Apologies, but there are not

TL;DR don't edit in system tags

Thats the current policy. The status of questions that use the term "5e" is not yet decided upon and the policy is horribly named "don't guess" when that isn't what it actually means

It uses "guess" in the sense of any guess, no matter how educated it may be

@user-024673 Well the old one is that 5e isn't enough so...

Just... Please know and accept that the current policy is "Do not edit a system into a question unless the asker has completely and explicitly named the system" I don't really care to run circles about how the numerous numerous revisits and related posts can be (and are) quite complicated. The current policy is quite simple

13

Q: What is the “Don’t Guess the System” policy?

When a user posts a question, we usually need to know the game system and edition in order to adequately answer their question. Sometimes a user fails to sufficiently specify this in their question, either missing the explicit system, edition or both. As a community, we have addressed topics rela...

discussion policy game-systems faq-proposal

Thomas Markov

But why? Why do you care this much?

Medix2

I also don't think that middle step ever actually happened. The "when there is evidence you can assume the system". Regarding the question you found, I do not recall its answers ever having meant, well, anything

MikeQ

The safest option is not to guess.

4

Medix2

7:13 AM

I do believe there are, for the most part, only two or three really important things to read to learn most of what you could learn on the topic: The definition of the policy, which has, well, a description of the policy. The Re-revisit of the policy, which has various posts explaining why various people want or don't want the current policy.

Everything else is... Fluff, nuance, butting heads, cans of worms, and the nitty-gritty that isn't needed to understand everything

@user-024673 I don't remember that Meta particularly well, but I don't recall anybody ever using it as a policy or example of, well, anything

@user-024673 I'm not entirely sure, but I don't recall it being meaningful... I'm sure other users would remember it and its ramifications better than I can

@user-024673 Define "meaningful" do you mean "enforceable policy"? Because we have exceedingly few of those

I don't remember it well enough to say anything, sorry

It is also explicitly called out in the definition of the "Don't guess the system" policy post

Under "Exceptions"

Akixkisu

8:08 AM

@user-024673 there is no policy that is more specific than the general policy as long as it is overturned by a majority vote.

We have no implementation of x% to overturn policy when we revisit we decide by a simple majority.

Generally

@user-024673 when we revisit a policy, then that revision decides current policy by a majority vote, the currently most upvoted answer is to overturn the old policy or in other words to re-instate an absence of a more specific policy in that regard that overrules our general policy of best judgement. As long as that is the case, I will act based on that. When the policy changes once again (and I'm aware of the shift), then I will change my actions accordingly. That is my baseline.

As you can see the edit was rolled back, I will leave it at that.

The user who rolled it back should be aware that their rollback doesn't represent the majority vote of the community.

They will have their reasons to make that rollback.

lisardggY

8:25 AM

good morning or morning-equivalent time-of-day.

Akixkisu

Morning :)

@user-024673 you are welcome, feel to ask when anything specific would be of value to you.

BESW

@lisardggY Yopp!

What's new?

lisardggY

@BESW Not too much, really. The never-ending present of the Plague Year continues its march.

BESW

Yeah, last night I started some comfort reading.

lisardggY

I've actually, miraculously, managed to read quite a bit these last couple of months. After a few very unproductive years in that department.

BESW

8:36 AM

I'm re-reading the Murderbot series by Martha Wells. Murderbot is a welcome Mood.

Akixkisu

^very good decison, also has a great audiobook.

BESW

Opening paragraph of the first book:

lisardggY

Definitely. I grabbed the first two when Tor had a giveaway for the ebooks a while ago, so now I'm waiting for a sale to pick up the rest of them.

BESW

> I could have become a mass murderer after I hacked my governor module, but then I realized I could access the combined feed of entertainment channels carried on the company satellites. It had been well over 35,000 hours or so since then, with still not much murdering, but probably, I don't know, a little under 35,000 hours of movies, serials, books, plays, and music consumed. As a heartless killing machine, I was a terrible failure.

lisardggY

Because I have so many books in my to-read pile that buying new ones full-price seems excessive.

BESW

8:39 AM

I feel that.

lisardggY

Reading Mary Robinette Kowal's Relentless Moon now, the third in the Lady Astronaut books, and it's kind of a letdown, unfortunately.

BESW

When I'm done with Murderbot I may read A Memory Called Empire again.

Akixkisu

I bought Goblin Queen a few days ago on a whim.

BESW

I've got some horror novels like Mexican Gothic that I want to read, but (aside from The Hollow Places) my reading's been decidedly anti-horror lately.

Akixkisu

By Tamora Carter, books aimed at children are becoming more and more valuable to me.

BESW

8:41 AM

(Unlike my film diet; I'm watching a lot of 70s/80s horror films.)

Oh, yes. Some of the best books ever are labelled "for children."

I recently finished reading Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH aloud to a friend over voice chat, over the course of a month or two.

Akixkisu

Nvm I just noticed that it is Tamora Carter: Goblin Queen by Jim C. Hines, sometimes I'm an airhead.

BESW

As a kid I had not appreciated the astonishing level of craft in that book.

lisardggY

Recently read Malka Older's Infomocracy, Tamsyn Muir's Gideon the Ninth and Harrow the Ninth, and now started on an anthology of short stories revolving around Star Wars: A New Hope.

BESW

I've heard good things about Gideon but haven't been able to penetrate it myself yet.

lisardggY

It takes some time to start. The characters are initially very unlikeable, but it evolves pretty quickly. The sequel is also pretty good and expands the world considerably, but it suffers a bit from being a bit too clever for its own good.

Akixkisu

8:45 AM

That sounds great. I currently prefer digestible, consumable, books. Craft is attractive, but sometimes a lighter touch is easier than something that moves you.

BESW

Aliette de Bodard has a new novel out that looks good, but I have a 50% love/meh ratio with her books. The Tea Master and the Detective and On a Red Station, Drifting were so good.

@Akixkisu One excellent thing about Mrs. Frisby is that its craft is not hard to digest, at all. It's not stunting, it's just doing all the right things so quietly that it seems effortless.

Akixkisu

@BESW coming from you, I'll take note it as a recommendation.

My brain is jumbled.

I'll take a note of the recommendation.

BESW

I appreciate a good turn of phrase or elaborate structure in a novel, but I have great admiration for the authors who are so confident in their craft that they don't need to show it off.

lisardggY

@BESW I just read one novelette of hers, I think, that I got as part of a Hugo voters' packet a few years ago. Was nice, but I never explored further.

BESW

@lisardggY I got started with her "Obsidian and Blood" series, which is urban fantasy murder mystery set in pre-European-contact Aztec society.

lisardggY

8:51 AM

@BESW There are some authors I like because their craft is invisible, but also some where I like to see it, where I enjoy how the craft is explicitly pushed to the forefront. In cinema as well - some directors will affect you without noticing, and some will make a point of showing their technique outright - Edgar Wright, for example, is one of my favorite directors because he enjoys playing with the technique front and center.

trogdor

@BESW those are the only two books she wrote that I have read, are there others you didn't like?

BESW

Technically it's in the same "Xuya" setting as most of her works, most of which are set in an alternate future in which Asia rather than Europe settled the Americas.

@trogdor I tried House of Shattered Wings and In the Vanisher's Palace but couldn't get very far into them.

trogdor

ah

BESW

@lisardggY Absolutely same. Margery Allingham comes to mind.

Nov 23 '16 at 0:47, by BESW

> I write every paragraph four times - once to get my meaning down, once to put in anything I have left out, once to take out anything that seems unnecessary, and once to make the whole thing sound as if I had only just thought of it.
- Margery Allingham

trogdor

lol

BESW

8:55 AM

Or Cold Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons, that thing is nothing BUT brilliant satirical craft for its own sake.

lisardggY

@BESW Yeah, she has a whole fictional timeline, with stories set from the 16th century to the 25th+, right?

BESW

Apr 17 '19 at 1:34, by BESW

> And it is only because I have in mind all those thousands of persons not unlike myself, who work in the vulgar and meaningless bustle of offices, shops and homes, and who are not always sure whether a sentence is Literature or whether it is just sheer flapdoodle, that I have adopted the method perfected by the late Herr Baedeker, and firmly marked what I consider the finer passages with one, two or three stars. In such a manner did the good man deal with cathedrals, hotels and paintings by men of genius. There seems no reason why it should not be applied to passages in novels.

@lisardggY Yup!

trogdor

it's a weird coincidence, weird enough I had to double check, but yeah those are the only two Aliette de Bodard books I have read XD

BESW

(Baedeker popularized guide books that rated attractions with stars.)

@lisardggY I like A Memory Called Empire for many reasons, but one of them is that Martine demonstrates remarkable ability to communicate the feelings and effects of poetry in another language and culture without any need for us to learn the language or her to pretend that we're reading it when we're really reading English.

It's so deft, and so central to the characters and the plot that if it ever faltered the whole novel would collapse. Takes a lot of daring to wager your debut novel on something like that.

lisardggY

@BESW It's on my list (along with the other best novel hugo nominees, except for Alix Harrow who I don't like)

BESW

9:02 AM

...relatedly, I love how T. Kingfisher's horror novels always reassure you at the very beginning that the pet doesn't die. She doesn't need that false tension to scare the pants off us, and she knows that some of us won't be able to read it if that threat is held over us.

lisardggY

@BESW Yeah, hence sites like doesthedogdie.com. Content warnings are the flip side of spoilers - they're for acknowledging that we need some spoilers to know whether we want to engage with the work.

BESW

Absolutely. It's very rare that a "spoiler" actually ruins the experience of reading something, because the journey is not the destination.

If it's really a spoiler in the sense that it spoils the experience, the journey probably wasn't worth taking in the first place.

I often keep plot summaries in tabs while I'm reading (or watching a film!), so I can spend more time on appreciation and less on anxiety.

lisardggY

It depends. I have a talk at a con about it last year and I was originally very anti-spoilers until I talked to some people and refined my position. I definitely see the value in surprise and discovery of plot elements in the pace that the creator intends, even if, for me, it's rarely the main point. But for many it is, and I don't want to disparage that method of engaging with the plot.

BESW

I would have given up on Trail of Lightning without that, because I was sure a certain plot point was going to a place I didn't want to follow... but it wasn't!

lisardggY

But there's always a trade-off. When you read a review, you're accepting a (hopefully mild) spoiler for the gain of being able to filter and prioritize your to-read list. When you check DoestheDogDie.com, you're accepting a spoiler for the gain of not starting to read a book that will impact you negatively.

Akixkisu

9:08 AM

@BESW ah, I did the same but didn't finish. Never revisited it.

BESW

@lisardggY Yeah, very much so. If it's a personal goal I'm not gonna go out of my way to mess with it, but I do think that there's an unhealthy quality to the discourse when (as a community) we put too much energy into thinking about it from that one perspective.

Akixkisu

The book lost thentension, then I realised I didn't really care about her anyway.

BESW

@lisardggY I also find that there's a lot of traumatic stuff hidden behind "spoilers." Like that episode of L*vecraft Country and its treatment of a two-spirit character. That was just horrendous but I saw people online struggling to give useful content warnings without being berated for spoiling the end of the episode.

lisardggY

Yup. The public sphere is currently spoiler-averse to a ridiculous degree, with Lost and GoT pushing the sentiment out to the mainstream public the way it was seen in fandom circles before.

The Oracle

0

Q: Discussion on thread "Artificer Eldritch Cannon Protector temp hit points and Wildshape"

Currently there is an edit war with regards to the [dnd-5e] tag on this question: Artificer Eldritch Cannon Protector temp hit points and Wildshape The question is unambiguously about D&D 5e, but there doesn't seem to be agreement on how to handle it. I would like to hear some opinions on what sh...

discussion tags policy game-systems

BESW

9:21 AM

...I wonder how much crossover there is between anti-spoiler attitudes and GM-only plotting in TTRPGs?

trogdor

The intersection between spoilers and content warnings can be a little hard to navigate

BESW

A common objection I've seen to game structures where the group collaborates and consults to guide the campaign's events, is that then nothing is a "surprise."

(In practice, I find that it means EVERYONE gets surprised because collaboration produces results no individual could have anticipated, but even setting that aside...) There seems to be a great value placed by many on experiencing the unexpected; valuing it over the experience of collaboration or craft or structure, even. Randomized tables, for instance.

lisardggY

There was a pretty long discussion in a local gaming forum here a couple of years ago about "The Chandelier principle" - roughly speaking, it states "if a player asks you if the hall we're in has a chandelier, you should lean towards saying "yes" unless there's a really good reason to say "no"". It comes from the improv concept of "yes, and", and being flexible to allow external inputs to enrich your game and environment.

Many people, though, really don't like this concept. One guy, specifically, was of the "I spend hours every week building and imagining my campaign world, the players merely visit it. They can't just willy-nilly throw new elements into it".

BESW

Heh. I burned out trying to do that.

lisardggY

For that guy (and many others, to judge by the responses), the concept of an imagined world that "objectively exists" outside of the experience of the players by the table is a holy grail in gaming, a fully realized secondary world you can explore.

BESW

9:37 AM

Yeah, I've run into that a lot. One particular version that I bought into for a while was "a human can simulate a world better than a computer can because the human is more adaptable to human inputs."

But in practice, GMs can't be computers. No matter how much detail you try to prepare, the players will throw curveballs at you that you have to improvise for, inventing things which didn't exist in your notes when you began the session.

So even at its most effective, the objective world is an illusion for the players, but the GM can't participate in it because I'm the man behind the curtain.

Whereas a collaborative stance takes the exact same situation --a prepared world that is improvised to accommodate the group's choices during play-- but stops trying to pretend it's not happening.

lisardggY

Two things I ran into recently (which prompted a 1500 word+ blog post, in Hebrew though) are people who are now playing via Roll20 or similar, and look for ways to use the technology even for things that I would traditionally see as part of the core game loop. One thought of recording video (possibly machinima or some such) to replace verbal descriptions for intro/outro of a scene or session.

Another is using Roll20 scripting to have interactive elements on the maps, allowing the players to manipulate them directly - light torches, open doors, etc.

BESW

...I wonder how much of that is influenced by highly professional after-the-fact production values in popular streaming games.

lisardggY

Instinctively, I rejected both of these as "out of scope for a TTRPG", but once I stopped and evaluated things more clearly, I can definitely see their potential, even if not for the sort of games I personally like to play.

BESW

I'd be less worried about scope for the genre, and more about expectations and burnout for the people involved.

lisardggY

Sure, it takes things like "describing what happens when I open the door" out of the "verbally describe scenario -> verbally react to scenario -> mechanically resolve action" loop, but visual aides, from maps to minis, have been doing that since forever.

BESW

9:44 AM

I've been the GM who brings physical props for important items, and custom minis for every creature encountered, and has two-hour playlists for ambience according to location, faction, or theme.

lisardggY

And as for video - our Dresden Files campaign was explicitly modeled after a "monster of the week" TV show (at least at first, until the story arcs started to expand), and so we also had an opening credits video sequence that we would start every session with (and that the GM would update for every "season" in the campaign). I don't see a reason not to go multi-modal with non-verbal tools of expression.

BESW

Practices voices for NPCs, writes diegetic graffiti for the dungeon walls...

lisardggY

I mean, sure, it's Powerpoint-level video, but it's our Powerpoint-level video.

BESW

So long as it's not a burden or setting unreasonable expectations, I'm all for it.

But like, if a group makes an intro because that's how they've seen their favorite professional podcast game do it, that's setting them up for unreasonable expectations about pacing and roleplaying and such also, because they aren't professional gamers with the benefit of an editing team to cut their game to make it snappy.

(And if the GM is cutting videos every week, does that cut into their energy for other prep?)

lisardggY

Not necessarily. If they make an intro because they saw the professionals do it and it inspired them, but they're fine with it being an amateur-level production, then they've still expanded their toolset.

BESW

9:49 AM

Aye. If there's a clear setting of expectations and a way to address things if the situation changes, then they've dodged that bullet.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

10:14 AM

@lisardggY From a player perspective, it is very satisfying to make an educated estimation about something that went on in the GM's mind (during worldbuilding or the like) and turn out to be right, and use that estimation for some sort of clever benefit for one's PC. The game as a straightforward mystery (i.e. not Colombo reverse-mystery), with the player facing a challenge and figuring it out with its own mind (or with assistance but not replacement by dierolling).

Past a certain degree of improvised collaboration, that gets lost.

There are many ways to play. Most of them involve trade-offs.

Hot RPG Questions

10:30 AM

2

Q: Does the envoy warforged's Ability Score Increase trait give you a +1 to Con and +1 to two other ability scores? Or just +1 to two ability scores?

Does the envoy warforged (from UA: Eberron Races) get a +1 to Con and +1 to two other ability scores (e.g. Dex and Wis)? Or only +1 to two ability scores total (e.g. Dex and Wis, or Dex and Con)?

dnd-5e ability-scores unearthed-arcana racial-traits warforged

kviiri

10:42 AM

@lisardggY I personally don't have a pattern of liking works less after being spoiled, and while I get that it's better to be safe (to avoid harming the experiences of people who really do react strongly to it) I think the discussion gets quite extreme at times

(quite the contrary in a sense: I usually like works more seeing them the second time)

BESW

@kviiri I'm often the same way!

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

For non-interactive works, I do often look up in advance how the story goes and what elements are included, and rarely do I go out of the way to avoid learning such details. With RPGs it varies and I do experience enjoyment from staying uninformed and trying to figure stuff out on my own (but at other times I experience enjoyment from having advance hints too).

kviiri

11:32 AM

@BESW I'm feeling particularly much so about the Kurt Vonnegut novel Bluebeard, which I'm re-reading. I probably wouldn't have had the energy to read it if I hadn't read it before, because I almost gave up on it the first time. (technically did, but started it over a few weeks later and finished it)

The novel is really slow-paced in many ways until about halfway through. It doesn't have a particular focus, eventfulness or suspense – it feels like it just sets up character backgrounds through what seems like a series of tangentially connected anecdotes.

Akixkisu

11:49 AM

@user-024673 if you haven't already, then it is in your interest to downvote this faq-proposal

Joel Harmon

12:57 PM

@kviiri That does sound like how I remember Vonnegut's writing style.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon Yeah, Cat's Cradle has something similar. There's a drastic change of pace around halfway through

Joel Harmon

And in book related news, I'm very excited for Sanderson's Rhythm of War to release today.

kviiri

Oo, nice :3 (I don't know what it is but it's not gonna stop me from being happy for you)

Joel Harmon

It's book four in a planned ten-book series. The first three (which I finished rereading yesterday) weigh in at around 3300 pages total.

And if you haven't read any Brandon Sanderson before, may I recommend the standalone novel Warbreaker?

kviiri

Haven't. I have actually read quite little of, well... anything except scientific papers over the last few years.

I got kinda stuck with my Masters' thesis. Now it's done, been so for a couple of weeks.

It's part of what prompted me to get back to Vonnegut x)

Thomas Markov

1:12 PM

@NautArch Ive been waiting to bug you and I bet you know why :P

The Oracle

1:27 PM

1

Q: Should we refrain from posting answers which rely on unreleased content?

Today is the day of the Tasha's Cauldron of Everything release. Answers quoting its content starting showing up yesterday. Since it is here now, obviously this question does not apply to Tasha's anymore. But the principle still needs to be discussed so it can be put into practice in the future. S...

discussion answers copyright

doppelgreener

o/

Thomas Markov

Great morning to you, doppel

doppelgreener

good morning!!!

kviiri

hiya

doppelgreener

i have had a great morning :D

NautArch

1:54 PM

@ThomasMarkov what's up?

Thomas Markov

Tasha's is up.

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov who dat

doppelgreener

@NautArch not who, what: Tasha's Flying Bargain Store is out

(there's not actually any bargains, but once you've made the effort to reach the shop, you're going to feel pretty bad if you leave empty handed.)

NautArch

@doppelgreener but is there flying?

doppelgreener

@NautArch there is! the store flies!

Thomas Markov

2:03 PM

So its like half amusement ride, half retail extravaganza?

kviiri

@doppelgreener That's neat :3

NautArch

@doppelgreener what about the store flies? Do they bite?

doppelgreener

@ThomasMarkov more like giant air balloon that sways in a gut-wrenchingly terrifying way, half good products, half extortionate prices

@NautArch they're the worst, but Tasha's trying to clean them out. Please pick up a bottle of insect spray on the way in.

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener Insect plague is a concentration spell, just tell Tasha to relax her mind.

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov Telling someone to relax usually just gets them more irritated though. IDK about you, but I'm not looking to get turned into a newt :p

Thomas Markov

2:09 PM

Goosfrabaaaaaaaa

RevenantBacon

@ThomasMarkov I understand that the focus was on answers quoting unreleased content, I just threw that bit about questions in in at the end for clarity's sake.

Bardic Wizard

Good morning! “Happy” Tuesday/whatever day it is wherever you are!

Thomas Markov

@RevenantBacon Its a helpful addition.

David Coffron

@Anyone in the Chatizen campaign on D&D Beyond. Tasha's Cauldron should now be available (if it works the way its supposed to now that I own it)

Thomas Markov

2:25 PM

@DavidCoffron Im in Naut's Stackizen 3

David Coffron

@ThomasMarkov Oh, I didn't realize he ended up making more than one. I would've bought it for him if I knew lol

Someone_Evil

I think it's already shared through all those? Or maybe I have it through a different campaign

Thomas Markov

@Someone_Evil Its not showing up on the Stackizen 3 content list yet.

David Coffron

@Someone_Evil It wasn't in the one I'm in until just now

Someone_Evil

Yeah, turns out I do have it from a different one :)

KorvinStarmast

2:59 PM

@Medix2 um, contextual clues ... I think this is ground we have previously covered.

@lisardggY I have a couple of torch and "light cantrip on a coin" tokens that the players control. Handy when they bother to remember to do it ...

kviiri

3:15 PM

Oh yeah, my thesis got graded!

Like, officially

David Coffron

Woh. Circle of Stars druids are super strong dungeon delving. Dragon constellation gives a flat reliable talent of 10 for both Investigation and Perception

kviiri

Now it's done. DONE DONE.

David Coffron

Congrats!

> Dragon. A constellation of a wise dragon appears on you. When you make an Intelligence or a Wisdom check or a Constitution saving throw to maintain concentration on a spell, you can treat a roll of 9 or lower on the d20 as a 10.

Level 2 reliable talent for 1/3 of the ability scores is so good

Thomas Markov

@kviiri You mean it doesnt have to sit in limbo for a month and a half while the college administrator whines about nitpicky crap?

Medix2

@KorvinStarmast Yes and covered to the conclusion that they don't matter

kviiri

3:17 PM

@ThomasMarkov it already did that!

but not a month luckily

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri woo hoo and Congratulations!!!!

Thomas Markov

On my third or fourth submission they kicked it back and said "oh btw you have to write a conclusion".

KorvinStarmast

@DavidCoffron Tasha's: because we don't care about balance ... and we don't actually listen to the feedback on UA ... 😜

2

But heck, new toys, so why not?

Thomas Markov

@DavidCoffron Yeah, it seems youve found a totally broken ability.

KorvinStarmast

@Medix2 uh, nope. (See doppel's meta post on that very thing ... )

Medix2

3:20 PM

@KorvinStarmast The one that were currently revisiting and that didn't matter previously?

David Coffron

@ThomasMarkov There's a few that I've seen.

But also some really nice new options, like finaly some thrown weapon support:

> Thrown Weapon Fighting
You can draw a weapon that has the thrown property as part of the attack you make with the weapon.

In addition, when you hit with a ranged attack using a thrown weapon, you gain a +2 bonus to the damage roll.

Medix2

@DavidCoffron If only Deflect Missiles on ammo counted as "using a thrown weapon"

David Coffron

A monk 1/fighter 1 can get d8 unarmed strikes at level 2...

> Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier on a hit. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8.

Medix2

@DavidCoffron Is that a Fighting Style?

David Coffron

@Medix2 Yeah

RevenantBacon

3:37 PM

College of Creation gonna get up to some shenanigans

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon yep

David Coffron

Way of Mercy monk is the perfect counter to enemy monks with Stunning Strike

> When you use Hand of Healing on a creature, you can also end one disease or one of the following conditions affecting the creature: blinded, deafened, paralyzed, poisoned, or stunned.

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon But when you get to a high enough level, think of the size of diamond you can put on the ring when you propose for marriage ... 😁👍

Bardic Wizard

@kviiri yay!

RevenantBacon

Why put a diamond on the ring, when you can just make a ring of diamond?

Thomas Markov

3:43 PM

Creation Bard can repair a simulacrum for free?

Bardic Wizard

So just to clarify: Tasha’s is broken and untested, like the rest of 5e?

Thomas Markov

The rest of 5e isnt untested.

KorvinStarmast

@RevenantBacon OMG, you are so right! A rind made of diamonds!

And nothing in 5e is broken, although the Wish/Simulacrum exploit and the alleged Coffeelock exploit are exceptions to that general observation

Thomas Markov

@KorvinStarmast I diamond band with a gold nugget stud on top?

RevenantBacon

no, not diamonds, a ring of diamond. Single unbroken piece of perfect clarity

KorvinStarmast

3:45 PM

@ThomasMarkov Adamantine;

@RevenantBacon Even better

Someone_Evil

Part of this is that adding more options to the same cauldron is gonna get you new precipitates when its all stirred up

KorvinStarmast

@Someone_Evil nicely said. (I admit, I am so gonna play a Genie Warlock ...)

RevenantBacon

@Someone_Evil Is that a pun?

Bardic Wizard

@ThomasMarkov yeah, that’s true. I probably shouldn’t get too nitpicky. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, and I do like 5e overall.

GcL

@KorvinStarmast I feel like the 5e edge cases just get a side eye from DM's and a "nah"

RevenantBacon

3:46 PM

@BardicWizard Just use your new College of Creation school to magic up yourself a new glass house! There's no limit to the shenanigans!

KorvinStarmast

@GcL mostly yes

There's a neat synergy with wall of force and sickening radiance that two PCs together can use to take down large HP bag monsters, though ...

Someone_Evil

@KorvinStarmast One of my players are playing that atm (using UA for a few sessions, but basically unchanged). Highly recommend, it's a been really cool so far

@RevenantBacon :)

KorvinStarmast

@Someone_Evil Ohm yeah, I can't wait.

GcL

Let the moon druid/monk combo slide once counting bear claws as unarmed strikes when the rules first came out. Not going to do that one again.

Someone_Evil

Does anyone feel like updating the official subclasses Q&A with Tasha's, btw?

David Coffron

3:49 PM

@Someone_Evil I'll do it in a bit; right now I'm just basking in synergies

Like how you can get monks with Elven Accuracy via Way of the Astral Self

Medix2

@DavidCoffron I see you're updating the optimization questions XD

David Coffron

@Medix2 :)

Unfortunately none of the damage ones yet, just ability scores

Nothing jumps out at me so far

Thomas Markov

I need o update my Bard capstone question

GcL

@KorvinStarmast Two mid wizards in a party that feel like cooperating can do some neat stuff.

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov They... added a new capstone?

David Coffron

3:52 PM

(although the spell damage from Magical Inspiration might be useful; have to do some more thinking)

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 No, in my question I evaluate all the subclasses for how well they synergize with Superior Inspiration

Medix2

I'm still trying to figure out whether Spell-Storing item getting around Bonus Action spellcasting ever means anything

GcL

I don't hear about two wizard parties all that often.

Thomas Markov

@Medix2 see here: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/172432/62294

Medix2

@ThomasMarkov Ah yeah, I remember it now

GcL

3:53 PM

@Medix2 What do you mean? using an action to cast a bonus action spell?

Medix2

@GcL "Does the Artificer's Spell-Storing Item effectively bypass the bonus action spellcasting rule?"

KorvinStarmast

@GcL our party has an evoker wizard and my celestial warlock...we are on pause while my brother makes more content. When we get to 9th we are gonna have some fun.

Medix2

Since it apparently doesn't count as casting the spell, so you could cast an action spell using it and then a bonus action spell regularly. A multiclass Thief Rogue could instead use it to cast an action spell as a bonus action and then cast a regular action spell

I just can't think of any surprising or particularly useful combinations (though I also haven't thought on it much yet)

David Coffron

They basically made ranger UA official with the optional features in Tasha's

Thomas Markov

OMG GUYS DOES IT CLARIFY ANYTHING ABOUT SELF (XYZ)

Or am I getting a pizza

KorvinStarmast

4:01 PM

@ThomasMarkov I recommend getting a pizza 👍😎🍕

Someone_Evil

@ThomasMarkov If it does, I don't know where

GcL

@Medix2 Sure... at 11th level, they can give the 11th level rogue an item that casts one of their L1 or L2 spells as a bonus action. Do artificers get fairy fire? I think that's nice to have against strength based opponents.

@Medix2 Heat metal is a particular nasty one. Requires concentration, but getting twice the artificers int modifier uses of it per day might make it particularly appealing. Needs a fast hands rogue though.

doppelgreener

4:18 PM

@ThomasMarkov "Self (range) is defined as" and then the page ends, and as you turn the page you find the next page begins a new section at the top left, and all the page numbers are correct so you haven't missed a page, and the section is not visibly continued anywhere at all that you can find.

Thomas Markov

@doppelgreener I feel like you’re pulling my leg, but on the other hand, it’s entirely plausible.

Bardic Wizard

@doppelgreener wait, seriously?

Is there a possibility of showing a picture to prove it?

David Coffron

@BardicWizard I'm fairly sure it is a joke

Any spellcaster class can get Devil's Sight (or other invocations with no prerequisites) with a feat now. Would be a super strong option for Eldritch Knights (with the extra ASIs)

MikeQ

4:40 PM

The monsters in DNDBeyond have a proficiency bonus in their stat block. Is that new?

Someone_Evil

I would assume that's because they haven't got a CR which would normally define their CR

doppelgreener

@BardicWizard i'm definitely joking

(but i've seen RPG manuals do worse)

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ now I have to look; PB is tied to CR, they DDB folks might have cut to the chase?

will check later, meatspace summons me ...

David Coffron

4:55 PM

@MikeQ Definitely new

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