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12:42 AM
Q: Online SRD vs Official PDF SRD

Andreas GrigoriadisThe question I have is pretty simple. The PDF file that WotC has on their website does not have the same content as this website https://www.5esrd.com/. If I create a 5e adventure and want to go the OGL route instead of the DMs Guild one, can I use the extra content from the website? As an exampl...

1:00 AM
@MarkWells that's way cool. Thanks for the link
Q: Can Tremorsense replace sight?

OdoThis question it prompted by the recommendation of Ryan C. Thompson in relation to their answer to an earlier question of mine. Does tremorsense, allow a monster to effectively "see" other creatures or does it only indicate location? The first option would have tremorsense function the same as bl...

2 hours later…
3:11 AM
Q: How can I handle a PC wanting to be a "twist" villain?

AndrendireMy group has been following a premade campaign that has a decentralized plot structure that relies mainly on adventurers "finding their own adventure". This means that while the campaign provides ample worldbuilding information and premade side-quests, the campaign has no clearly defined antagoni...

@HotRPGQuestions it’s not a good thing.
I've absolutely done it well and badly.
The key, of course, is getting everybody in on it at the start. Having the other players get surprised by the twist is a recipe for discontent and mistrust.
3:26 AM
Yeah. Agreed, but given that it wasn’t discussed before if happened, the answer is probably “it’s not gonna work if you want to keep your friends”
Also it tends to work less well in systems which expect mechanical interdependence like the tank/healer/dps trifecta.
in this campaign I run through the library, there’s some borderline PvP but it’s only stayed friendly since we have a strict rule saying that PvP only happens with everyone’s agreement, and only non-lethally and in a way that doesn’t harm any relationships IC or OOC
Ripping out one of the interdependent roles mid-game only works if you're really careful about how you orchestrate your encounters going forward, and even then it's.... emotionally tricky?
Those are good guidelines.
I dunno if my answer's any good and it's definitely open for edits. This is one of those circumstances where I see someone potentially repeating one of my own GM pitfalls, and so my internal monologue shrieks incoherently and I need to translate that into a legible argument.
@BESW it took like a dozen revisions to get everyone happy with them. I personally wrote most of it but only because I’m a) the GM and b) the person at the table most hurt by the last incident involving PvP
4:02 AM
Afternoon all
So I was revisiting some of my old q's & a's, and I was wondering about how our position on Sage Advice has affected Sage Advice as a reference.
Is that something I can ask about on meta?
Sounds reasonable to ask.
Ok, I wasn't sure cos it's not exactly about rpg.se, just the effect that rpg.se has had on another site
oooh, I see. Hrm. That's interesting.
Can't hurt to ask on meta but I'm not sure how it'll be received?
4:06 AM
4:23 AM
Hrmm... Now that I'm writing it, it's hard to put into words what I am actually trying to ask haha
Ok, I think I have a draft written... just not sure what tags to use now
4:54 AM
Q: How has the ruling of JC's tweets now being unofficial affected Sage Advice, in regards to RPG.se?

BenWe used to have answers referencing JC's tweets as RAI/RAW, but now that they are no longer official since the release of the SA Compendium, what effect has that had on the Sage Advice page? I'm not exactly book-worming my way through the site, but I personally feel that the tweet ruling has sort...

5:40 AM
Q: In case a trigger for a readied action is someone else's reaction, what is resolved first?

z33kI asked this question. The answer is YES. But I'm still not sure - in such a case (i.e. a trigger for reaction being another reaction) - which reaction is resolved first, the triggered one or the triggering one? Does the readied action interrupt someone else's reaction that triggered it? Is ther...

8 hours later…
1:37 PM
@NautArch I think I answered Ben's question?
@Ben If this is your question, I really don't get it. I mean, I'm sure we generated lots of traffic/ad revenue for those who used it and didn't have a user come in and change the link to direct to twitter, but if you're asking about use of the reference after WoTC said it's not official, that's another question.
@ThomasMarkov I don't think it's clear what the question is (see above.)
And since WoTC has explicitly stated those tweets aren't official, I just don't see a standalone tweet as a supported answer per your last paragraph.
Yeah, after reading the discussion Im less sure what the question is.
I was actually thinking about this yesterday, "Does an answer that only cites a JC tweet meet our minimum expectations for a supported answer?"
Maybe thats a good question for meta.
what do you think @NautArch?
I also feel like the answer I wrote for Ben is my answer to that question.
@ThomasMarkov that may have been the intent of Ben :)
But i also don't know if it's really necessary. I mean, we have official statement that the tweets aren't official, so that meta seems...obvious?
But things that seem obvious aren't necessarily so.
MY question would be more concerned with how policy interacts with tweet-only answers.
We delete unsupported answers as a matter of policy.
I'd be very careful wielding the term 'policy' 'round these parts.
1:45 PM
> There's no hierarchy or preference of sources, it's all hashed out informally and interpersonally by the various game communities on the site
Heck, though. I think you could make a more general meta about the use of unofficial sourcing.
@ThomasMarkov Is that in reference to unofficial sources or just official sources? My feeling is that it's related to official, but I may be influencing my own thoughts.
@NautArch it was in response to this comment:
> For Objective Answers, is there a hierarchy or preference of sources? If, for example, a developer tweet is later adopted into printed errata, are both sources of equal value/quality as citations? If there is, this answer could benefit from that clarification.
This is from the answer on that meta:
> If you are suggesting a developer said something in a tweet, link and quote the tweet. If you're citing mathematics, it's best to reproduce your work or cite your sources. If you suggest that something in the game is intended to work or be interpreted in a certain way, cite where a developer or design document said that. Use a citation style of your preference.
Ah. But that was from a different time when developer tweets by WoTC were official. Or other potential official sourcing?
I agree in general that a tweet can be used as support (if someone wants), but should never be a stand alone answer.
1:50 PM
When did tweets become unofficial?
The bit about developer statements was added to the answer on January 4, 2019
@ThomasMarkov When they went from 140 to 280.
@BESW I think that's a whoosh for me.
@ThomasMarkov looks like in the 2019 Sage Advice
Q: With the 2019 Sage Advice Compendium release, are Jeremy Crawford's tweets considered to be "official rulings"?

RubiksmooseThe 2019 Sage Advice Compendium has been released. Previously, the SAC has indicated that Jeremy Crawford's tweets were considered to be official rulings. Is this still true?

@ThomasMarkov Almost exactly three years ago, Twitter doubled the number of characters allowed in a tweet. It was very controversial at the time.
not sure when that SA was actually released, but probably not January 4 of that year?
i dunno
1:52 PM
@BESW I'm guessing it was just a coincident though
@NautArch Seems like it was right around the time this answer came up.
The Kanuary 2019 Edition of the SAC made the tweets unofficial.
It's still a relevant source for many points, just not authoritative (to most). Part of the problem (which my pro-forma comment) is that the .eu website masks tweets as Sage Advice (taken as being official/authoritative). It's not wrong to link and refer to the tweets, but it should be clear what it is your linking and referring to, and that site obscures that
@Someone_Evil Very true, and it's also a potential link rot situation (much moreso than direct to twitter.)
But with conflicting tweets about some things, it very much reduces their usefulness.
And that doesn't even start with how to handle conflicting tweets from the various designers.
@Rubiksmoose Has some interesting thoughts here: rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/a/8790/62294
Which is basically what I wrote on Ben's question.
I think Ben's question might be a duplicate of:
Q: How should we handle answers that use Jeremy Crawford's now unofficial tweets?

AdamThe 2019 sage advice compendium has released, and it includes a change to what is considered "official rulings." Previously, Jeremy Crawford had the capacity to make official rulings over twitter. This is no longer the case. As stated in the updated compendium: Official rulings on how to int...

@ThomasMarkov Yeah, this sums it up for me: "An answer that contains only a tweet without any other kind of discussion or support is (and always has been) generally a poor one."
If the designers were more in-line with themselve and the other designers, I'd be more open to their tweets.
But that's really a purely me thing. I don't downvote answers with tweets, and i focus much more on the experience or rules being cited.
But a tweet-only answer now? Yeah, that's a downvote.
and a paddlin'.
2:01 PM
@NautArch The vote spread on this question perplexed me: rpg.stackexchange.com/q/174122/62294
@NautArch Voting patterns dont always reflect this, sadly.
@ThomasMarkov No comment :P
(as shown by the question I linked)
@NautArch only cuz you already commented lol
Voting patterns generally don't reflect a lot of our preferred actions.
@ThomasMarkov hey-o!
downvote delivered.
Eberron has a really cool monster, Belashyrra, and I just thought of a way to cheese the fight.
@ThomasMarkov that is a pretty cool monster
2:17 PM
True polymorph into a medusa.
Belashyrra isnt immune to petrification and only has a +5 CON save.
Although it doesn't have to look at the medusa
TP the whole party into medusas.
medusa party!
2:34 PM
Q: How does Belashyrra's Truesight interact with its Eye Thief ability?

Thomas MarkovEberron: Rising from the Last War includes a really interesting boss monster named Belashyrra. Belashyrra has Truesight out to 120 feet: A monster with truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical darkness, see invisible creatures and objects, automatically detect visual ill...

Im gonna run this monster for a one shot.
I'm not sure if it's in the rules, but I'd say their truesight remains (they are seeing through that creature), and it's 120' from the creature.
That's probably how I would have ruled it on the fly.
1 hour later…
3:58 PM
@NautArch In the instance of this specific monster, I agree, especially since it seems thematically appropriate because of how its Eye Thief interacts with its Eye Ray.
4:14 PM
@RevenantBacon completely. Super cool mechanic!
4:27 PM
But apparently Darth does not agree with us, and their no support answer is getting upvotes. oh well.
It always has truesight active because it can see through the DM's eyes, assuming the DM is within 120 ft of the table.
Well, they are technically correct. Besides, it also makes sense that you would use the senses of the creature you are viewing through
@MikeQ This is also correct :p
But I still think that Belashyarra getting to use its True Sight is more thematically appropriate, and it's not spelled out that it can't so...
Gimmick enemy idea: A spellcasting monster that only perceives using other creatures' senses. It can be defeated easily if everyone nearby closes their eyes.
@RevenantBacon well, i'm not saying they're incorrect. just saying that they haven't actually supported their view beyond "i think"
@NautArch Oh, yeah, totally agree.
4:37 PM
yet, upvotes.
oh wells.
@MikeQ I'm stealing this
It's mine now
It's on the same list as the enemy that's selectively invisible. It can make itself invisible to some number of creatures nearby. Or as a more confusing version, it's always invisible except to one creature nearby.
5:33 PM
@MikeQ yoink
Now the trick is how to narrate the mechanic so the players can, do, and get satisfaction for figuring it out.
@GcL Readied actions for when the PCs see things?
@GcL Dunno how to do that in combat. Often I like to telegraph these things by leaving environmental hints, or journals from previous adventurers.
I don't think I'm going to go combat with this particular idea theft.
Maybe the creature physically doesn't have its own eyes or ears, and the DM can describe that, so the players may be curious about how it sees.
It's tricky to communicate because most possible hints will suggest a basilisk.
Legends about it being defeated by a blind hero, warnings to cover your eyes when entering its lair, etc.
I also wonder if you can mess with it by looking at things that aren't real or are distorted. Like, cast an illusion on yourself, or put a mirror in front of your face and walk backward.
5:51 PM
Hm, so maybe it only sees creatures who look at it?
A curved mirror so it misjudges the distance, even
Isn't there a spell that allows you to see through someone else's eyes?
Invisibility. You can see through their eyes and through the rest of them too.
6:07 PM
@NautArch Beast sense?
6:23 PM
@Someone_Evil Interesting, not sure if that helps or hurts my answer.
actually, i think it supports
I think otherwise it's limited to find familiar which explicitly mentions gaining the benefit of the special senses
I still think there's another, but can't figure it out. It's not Trickster Cleric.
Does the totem barbarian have an ability like that for animals?
nvm, they can just cast beast sense
@ThomasMarkov Yes, beast sense
does echo knight have something?
6:32 PM
Yes, but only through the copy of themselves, which isn't useful. Similar for project image
I don't know whether the last mode of soul cage is relevant to you?
i don't think so :( Sensors aren't the same since they don't have their own sight abilities.
6:53 PM
argh, got a new wifi mesh access point and it can't find the controller
7:10 PM
@NautArch I'm ran cat6 all over the place here. No longer have to deal with neighbor's device switching to broadcast on the same channel I use.
@NautArch oh dear
@GcL We're not that close to neighbors, but that still is kind of an issue.
@BardicWizard even more annoying, the previous did the same thing and this was the RMA.
There's always copper in the walls.
@GcL sounds like a nice dwarven proverb
Neck beards with extensive networks and secure tunnels... Yeah, that tracks.
7:20 PM
@GcL That is also true. And lots of other metals.
I tried to snake a wire down a wall once and discovered it was a metal wall with a metal barrier preventing me.
that was fun.
@Someone_Evil I wonder if that delay action instead of ready would work for them.
I guess Guildsbounty think so :P
7:37 PM
@NautArch Power conduit or metal studs?
@GcL metal studs methinks
we're getting ready to renovate most of our first floor, so i'll get some ethernet jacks put in, most likely.
but I think I'm also done with Unifi.
@NautArch ugh. That's a pain. I've never had to drill through those. Had to run through those once, but there were nice bushings already installed to pull through.
@GcL Yeah, i just left the hole drilled in the wall and figured the reno would handle it.
I had put a projector and roku on that wall. About 30' away from the projection wall. Get a nice 150"ish screen.
8:04 PM
Ugh, it’s nearly lunch time and the caffeine from breakfast still hasn’t kicked in
How long ago did you have you have your caffine?
Caffeine kicks in as quickly as 10 minutes, and peaks at around 45, so if you aren't feeling the effects yet, then you won't be at all probably.
@RevenantBacon checks teabag oh. Oh. This is decaf earl grey. WHO CHANGED MY TEA FOR DECAF
8:19 PM
I’m going to go find better caffeine, please excuse me
uh oh
"I’m going to go find ------ caffeine, please excuse me"
8:34 PM
I’m back.
Turns out it was my own fault for forgetting that we were out of the good stuff
I use a drink mix before exercising in the morning that has 175 mg per hit.
@ThomasMarkov let the up votes and down votes answer that
8:52 PM
Mwahaha caffeine flows in my blood
and now all is right with the world
@KorvinStarmast indeed
@BardicWizard Is your body ablaze with energetic charge?
@RevenantBacon who knows. I can sit through history class so it’s probably close enough
I've just reminded myself of part of the lyrics to the song Rise of the Chaos Wizards
@BardicWizard That must be a hefty dose of caffeine then
8:58 PM
@RevenantBacon the teacher’s not that much of a bore (at least thats what I’m saying while he can hear me)
Cosmic Infinity courses through my veins
My body is ablaze with Astral Charge
Once again the universe shall tremble before the Might. Of. Zargonthrax!
I'll have the word salad, with the dressing on the side please
I think my favourite gloryhammer lyric is:
I have seen many worlds / and travelled through time
but nothing prepares / for ultimate fight
@MikeQ Bacon bits or no bacon bits?
9:25 PM
@KorvinStarmast Who would ever pick the second option?
It's unthinkable!
Preposterous even
@RevenantBacon I have a couple of friends who were observant in a particular faith who might ... but otherwise, yeah, good point.
@KorvinStarmast I was just making a joke because of my username
@RevenantBacon me. I’m vegetarian
@RevenantBacon Hmm, I think I noticed that about four seconds after I posted my come back
@BardicWizard My one weakness, aaaahhhhhhh
9:27 PM
@BardicWizard fun fact; the first jar of bacos I ever used on salad was not actual bacon. It was flavored bits that actually had no meat in them.
NGL, I actually like the imitation bacon bits more than real bacon on a salad
That's probably something you should lie about.
from the label Bacon-flavored condiment made with the goodness of soy No saturated fat or cholesterol; contains no meat Preservative-free food
Bacon Bits* Contains no actual bacon nor actual bits.
@RevenantBacon Splitter! 😮
9:35 PM
@RevenantBacon waves a piece of carrot around
... ooh, I wonder what carrot coffee or tea would taste like
@BardicWizard Probably really bad
10:09 PM
@RevenantBacon I suppose I’ll just have to eat carrot cake then
carrot cake is really nice
10:54 PM
So my party had to defeat about 40 CR¼ creatures across two half-hour combat sessions last night, AMA.
How many fireballs were involved?
Was that fun?
@MikeQ None, because no one can cast it, although the cleric did take to spamming Word of Radiance after awhile.
@Xirema did it end well?
@BardicWizard I think in total the party took 20 hit points of damage spread relatively evenly across the five PCs, although admittedly like 75% of that was damage the Barbarian resisted (and then recovered with their Path of the Tundra TempHP they get each turn).
@BardicWizard It turns out that when the enemy has to hit a natural 14 to hit the lowest AC in the party, and even when they do hit only deal like 5 damage, and the party is fighting in a 10' wide hallway.... They kind of just get stomped.
@GcL I think if this had dragged on for like three hours it would have gotten tiresome, but I very quickly got into a rhythm of taking only a few seconds per creature so the players could maximize time on their turns while still getting through combat quickly.
Also, the Crossbow Expert/Sharpshooting Fighter does like 60 damage per turn, so a lot of his turns were me being like "Yup, he's dead—yup, he's dead—yup, he's dead".
Ironically, the party were debating for like 15 minutes just running away because they were worried they couldn't take them. 👀
Meanwhile, I'm sitting here like "I could throw a hundred of these guys at you and you'd be fine, just fight them!" 😁
I'd already signposted an initial encounter with 3 of them just to help the party figure out how low their stats were.
But it turns out that if you throw several dozen creatures at a level 9 party, they still assume they need to run away. 😛
11:05 PM
@Xirema oof. Wow. That’s pretty awesome
@Xirema That's sensible, and the fact that anyone ever doesn't need to run away when outnumbered 10:1 is a serious balance problem with the system. On the other hand, I'm impressed that you've got a group of players who consider running away sometimes.
@MarkWells [insert 4e reference here]
@MarkWells I mean, the whole point of the encounter was that the party strolled up to a location that was utterly unprepared for them (because it's basically a prison camp for feeble, non-magical clerics and scribes) so the fact that they were absurdly overleveled for the encounter was part of the premise of the session.
That's one thing I was really glad I didn't have to leave behind when I transitioned from 4e to Fate; it just got better.
Q: How does Belashyrra's Truesight interact with its Eye Thief ability?

Thomas MarkovEberron: Rising from the Last War includes a really interesting boss monster named Belashyrra. Belashyrra has Truesight out to 120 feet: A monster with truesight can, out to a specific range, see in normal and magical darkness, see invisible creatures and objects, automatically detect visual ill...

11:26 PM
@BESW Given that you've been waving the flag for 4e a lot lately without really explaining why, I'll bite: In what ways is it well suited to your creative goals?
it's kinda not anymore
it's just better suited than 5e would be
well, yes, the "transitioned from 4e to Fate" part implies that you found better options
I mean, it's pretty much down to how the entire system works and plays off of each of it's parts
it's hard to pick out the thing to mention first because the full impact of every part isn't seen until every part that interacts with it is understood
like there are terrain types that have the effect of slowing you down or stopping movement, and giving concealment and cover, not revolutionary by itself
but then there are a few different enemy types that have different roles, each of which wants to do specific things and might take advantage of these terrain types
like soldiers which like defending their allies, and controllers that put down attacks that debuff, and shifters that like to move in-between attacking
and just the sheer number of different PC builds that also can take advantage of terrain in different ways
I mean that stuff is what was important to me about 4e BESW might have something entirely different to say really
@MarkWells Well, in this specific case, 4e had not only different roles for opponents, but different ranks. If you want to field a bunch of easy opponents, you don't use a lower level of opponent because that reduces the opponents' attack/defense/damage and trivializes the encounter. Instead, you use a "minion," which is an opponent of the party's level that has only 1 hp and standardized no-dice damage (so you can have a lot of them without rolling taking all day).
Four minions is roughly the same difficulty as one standard enemy, and an average difficulty encounter is one standard enemy per PC. So you could throw sixteen minions at a party of four and expect them to come out of it with a moderate expenditure of resources. Or, more commonly, you'd have, say, an elite (worth two standard enemies: double HP, more attacks opportunities per round), a standard or two, and a handful of minions backing them up. Or four minions and a few elites. etc.
This gave a LOT of creative control for combat.
Because level stopped being a diegetic component: instead the challenge of an enemy could be scaled through its rank and type to reflect its role in your story.
The exact same goblin might be a minion in one encounter and an elite in another, because it was more important in the second encounter and so it should stick around longer.
And everything's level was just scaled to roughly the party's, because that's the sweet spot for the statistical ratios.
And this combines with all the cool stuff Troggy mentioned about customizing encounters by using terrain effects and choosing enemies that clearly synergize with each other.
Fate, of course, takes out the careful mechanical complexity that 4e required to make that work, and substitutes a "just say what the story needs, and we'll make it work" attitude.
11:42 PM
@BESW This sounds like the logical next step would be to eliminate levels entirely and just leave everything in the sweet spot, and maybe that's the part of the story where you switch to Fate.
@MarkWells I absolutely would have done that if I'd stayed in that system much longer.
In fact, I did while I was using Fate.
Out of the box, Fate has a (much gentler) numerical incline over time like D&D does, but it's super easy to just rip that out and ignore it entirely.
Around the time I started using Atomic Robo, I just tore the numerical increases out of milestone advancement and never looked back.
Characters don't get more things and numbers in my Fate games; they change their things and numbers to reflect how the character is growing and changing through play.
I liked the (possibly obsolete now?) version of Fate character creation where you reflect that by just filling in more of the character sheet as you learn who they are. It emphasizes unexplored space.
But yes, if reflecting how the character is changing is a goal, most flavors of D&D are going to have trouble with that.
@MarkWells that's not obsolete that's more of a tool for people to leave things open about their character if they don't know everything they want to make part of the charater
or even just to leave space open for a cool thing that makes sense and would be useful when you choose it

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