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7:32 AM
@b_jonas Sure. I wasn't saying it was asked on the wrong site, just noticed since it's shortly after this question was migrated here from English SE.
 
8:22 AM
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Q: OCTOBER-NOVEMBER 2020 TOPIC CHALLENGE- BIBHUTIBHUSHAN BANDOPADHAYA

user37920The name of Bibhutibhusan bandopadhaya is a very well known name in Bengali literature. His famous novels are "pather Panchali", "Aparajit" "Apur Sansar".these three novels were awarded many prizes." pather Panchali" and "Ashani shanket" won prizes in international film festivals. these films wer...

 
@Randal'Thor you're maintaining the question text in literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1238/139 right? It should link to literature.meta.stackexchange.com/q/1445/139
 
9:27 AM
@b_jonas It will ... in November, when that topic challenge starts.
 
The "Literary Theory" suggestion is at 5 upvotes again (+7 -2), putting it ahead of the next "contender" by one vote. Interesting voting pattern.
 
10:07 AM
@Randal'Thor Ok, though I think it should link to future topic challenges.
 
@b_jonas I have added the heading "Upcoming Topic Challenge" to that meta page.
 
10:23 AM
@Tsundoku Wasn't it at 5 for a while now?
IIRC both that and Ko Un were at 6 before someone (cough, me) broke the tie by downvoting it.
 
10:35 AM
@Randal'Thor They were both at 6 until Brahadeesh deleted his account. Than both went back to five. So the "again" in my previous message appears to be mistaken.
Several other suggestions lost an upvote when Brahadeesh's account was deleted, including Thomas Middleton.
 
Oh, then you're right: both went 6 -> 5, then Literary Theory went 5 -> 4 to break the tie, now back to 5.
Also it looks like early next year we'll finally be able to expand the tag with Os Lusiadas.
 
Yes, very likely. And we'll see how the Jorge Amado suggestions goes.
By the way, I asked in a comment why the Romeo & Juliet suggestion is so unpopular. Is it because because the idea of reading works inspired by another literary work is not appealing or because the list of works inspired by Romeo and Juliet is not appealing?
I'm curious, because this is not the only example of this type of suggestion that I have considered posting.
If the suggestion was downvoted because the type of suggestion is not appealing, I don't need to propose anything like it again. If it is just that specific list of works, something else like it might work better.
 
@Tsundoku For me, a bit of both. It has the same problem as the Holocaust literature suggestion in that the boundaries aren't very clearly defined - how loosely can something be connected to / inspired by R&J and still count for the topic challenge? Also, although the derivative works themselves may be plenty diverse, the inspiration point of Romeo & Juliet itself is hardly outside of our site's normal range of topics.
 
(In fact, the "works inspired by The Stranger" challenge was something similar, but ended up generating questions mostly about Camus's novel instead of Daoud's novel.)
 
Those two considerations together were enough for me to downvote. If it was, say, "works inspired by Os Lusiadas" instead, I might've been ambivalent and not voted on it, maybe even upvoted.
 
10:48 AM
@Tsundoku Or because R&J is a quintessential example of what the site naturally tends to focus on (in regards to culture and language) and so doesn't match with the goals of the topic challenges
 
OK, I didn't expect the boundaries to be an issue, since it is different from the wider theme of lovers who need to overcome resistance from their own families (e.g. Pyramys and Thisbe).
In that case, I won't post a similar suggestion for works inspired by The Tempest, even though that play inspired greater works that Romeo & Juliet.
It seems that something like works inspired by The Song of Roland would work somewhat better. (The downside to that idea is that I think Orlando Furioso deserves its own topic challenge.)
 
 
2 hours later…
1:20 PM
1
Q: What does "raised waves in my mind" mean in Tagore's "At the End of the Day"?

MithicalIn Rabindranath Tagore's "At the End of the Day", there's one stanza that goes like this: To you I only pray – Before I go let me know Looking at the sky Why mother earth so green Gave me a call Why the silence of the night Told me the stories of the stars Why the lights of the day Raised waves ...

 
 
1 hour later…
2:36 PM
0
Q: What are "rubber notations" in "The Just Men of Cordova"?

Ahmed SamirIn chapter 2 of The Just Men of Cordova by Edgar Wallace, the author was describing a business man in London: His was a name to conjure with in certain circles. In others it was never mentioned. The financial lords of the City—the Farings, the Wertheiners, the Scott-Teasons—had no official knowl...

 
 
1 hour later…
3:56 PM
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A: New Literature SE Topic Challenge Suggestions Thread

user37920I request complete works of William Shakespeare as a TOPIC CHALLENGE for future consideration. I have already put works of Rabindra Nath Tagore on for consideration as OCTOBER-NOVEMBER 2020 TOPIC CHALLENGE.

 
4:44 PM
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Q: How do great authors write novels or differ from normal novels

Ronit sharmaAlthough I have read only few English novels. But I recently heard about fyodors - brothers karamazov That it's a good read and lights people life... Then I read the following review on goodreads - That was interesting the way this guy has written that the author builds up three characters and t...

 
5:35 PM
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Q: What is the effect of the paradox Orwell creates in Animal Farm?

Anon 100As a narrator, Orwell continues to reassure the reader that the animals believe that their lives are better under Napoleon. Yet, as readers, we are continually exposed to situations that suggest things are worse. Why do you think Orwell creates this contradiction for the reader? What is the effec...

 
6:24 PM
@Tsundoku Ok. The headers are a bit distracting, I think it might be better as one sorted list, the future one labelled as "(future)", the ongoing ones labelled as "(ongoing)", and the rest unlabelled (because there's no point to discourage people from past topic challenges).
@Randal'Thor Oh good. That's one that I'm interested about. I'll have to get a copy from the libraries.
 
6:52 PM
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Q: What is the meaning and significance of "urubutinga" in Mário de Andrade's "O lundu do escritor difícil"

Eddie KalThe title is suggestive enough to elicit an understanding that Andrade probably purposefully made this poem difficult to read to people who are not familiar with Tupi culture. A conscious effort of Mário de Andrade to rebuke the Eurocentric mindset is evidenced by the abundant symbolic imagery.1 ...

 
7:17 PM
@Bookworm @EddieKal So now we have a tag and a tag, which presumably will have to be synonymised, one way or the other depending on the outcome of that meta discussion.
 
what the heck is a lusophone-literature
@Randal'Thor I feel like have a "-phone" literature would hinder like user-friendliness
Like, how would I tag Korean literature?
I don't know the -phone equivalent of that, nor if we were to add any new languages. I understand maybe it might offend some people, but I'm not sure
 
@NorthLæraðr That's the very argument I made on meta (in different words).
 
@NorthLæraðr as explained on meta.
 
@NorthLæraðr Koreanophone apparently.
 
@Tsundoku interesting. Yeah, I'm not really for tagging all my Korean questions as "koreanophone"
 
7:25 PM
Korean = from Korea. Koreanophone = in the Korean language.
 
But I understand Eddie Kal's concern over like calling Taiwanese stuff Chinese
 
It makes more sense for languages which have spread to be spoken in widely different parts of the world: mainly European ones, thanks to colonisation. E.g. Francophone literature could be from France or Canada or French Guiana or Algeria or Congo or various other countries scattered across the globe.
 
But at the same time, asking for "sinophone" isn't intuitive by any means. It's super technical
@Randal'Thor Maybe. But if it's still written in that language...? Maybe we can clarify Chinese-literature from Madarin and Cantonese?
It's like, American English is different from British English. But how different considers a new tag?
 
"Sinophone" could also be defined as "written in any of the Chinese language or dialects".
The alternative is tags such as .
@NorthLæraðr "koreanophone" would pop up when you start typing "korea..." as a tag. Much easier than "sinophone", but tag synonyms can solve that issue.
 
I mean... it could work. But I feel like it might be too unneccerily complezx
geez I cannot spell
 
7:33 PM
@NorthLæraðr That's something tag synonyms won't solve :-P
 
8:12 PM
@NorthLæraðr How do you view North Korean literature?
And Korean literature by non-Koreans
Let's revisit all these discussions once I have more time and once some things are taken care of.
 
@EddieKal Korean literature is still Korean literature, whether north or south
@EddieKal And if that book is written in Korean, even if it's by foreigners, it's Korean literature per definition of how literature tags work here
 
@NorthLæraðr Well, that's another issue, which Eddie Kal's meta answer is highlighting.
How do we define what constitutes a "language"?
 
He has a point that conflating languages and nations can make things complicated.
But on the other hand, noone on earth knows what a lusophone is.
 
IMO there's no universal solution: we may need to have several more specific meta discussions, like we did for Scandinavian languages. Any attempt at a one-size-fits-all solution is going to be unfair to one language/language-group/culture or another.
 
@NapoleonWilson My point exactly
 
8:19 PM
@NapoleonWilson "He"?
 
@EddieKal Mr. Kal.
 
@NapoleonWilson I thought you meant Tsundoku, who posted the original meta question proposing -ophone tags.
 
@Randal'Thor Maybe he too then. That's the beauty of a general pronoun. ;-)
 
@Tsundoku Maybe that's a good third option, emphasising that the tags are for languages not countries without introducing technical/non-user-friendly (to steal North's words) words.
 
@NorthLæraðr It is not like the relationship between nation states, culture, and language hasn't been explored. A ton of literature (in the academic sense) out there. I did a little more than scratching the surface in my meta post, but if that's not good enough for you don't let me stop you from reading further. I am reluctant to enumerate Korean literature scholars right now and cite their works but there's a ton of people out there, you know.
 
8:22 PM
Synonymisation makes a bit more sense, though. Because then the average non-linguist still has tag names he can put sense into.
 
I think no matter what the visible tag names will be, we should do some synonymisation.
 
@NorthLæraðr So the story goes, years ago, one of my best friends, a Korean guy, showed me a news clip from the state controlled North Korean TV broadcaster where a NK anchor was reading from a script in a condemning tone, as they always do on NK TV. My friend thought it'd be interesting for me to see because I was learning Korean at the time
Then he says, "That's not Korean. No Korean would talk like that."
@NapoleonWilson Didn't know I was on Mars, Herr Wilson.
 
@EddieKal Sometimes it's difficult even to say something is or isn't a language without inadvertently making a political statement.
 
Funny how some of you think of "luso" that way, considering we are trying to get people to read Os Lusiadas.
 
8:32 PM
@EddieKal It's still Korean.
South Koreans may be more inclined and biased, but it's still Korean. They have a different merge of like a dialect-accent thing in North Korean that makes the language slightly different, but it's still Korean
 
@NorthLæraðr Is that a thing that some Koreans would disagree on?
Like, people might say that North Korean and South Korean are two different languages, even just for political reasons?
 
@Randal'Thor Of course. But they're wrong and personally I think it comes from bitterness and personal bias
 
I'm guessing here based on what I know about some other languages.
 
There's a lot of deep-rooted conflict between the two countries, but it is still Korean. Different dialectically, but still Korean.
 
E.g. some Scandinavians are nationalist enough to insist that Norwegian, Swedish, and Danish aren't even mutually intelligible (they are).
 
8:35 PM
@Randal'Thor Yes they are
I once witnessed a guy from Turkey talk to an Uyghur in Turkish. I was amazed.
 
As for calling "Scots" a separate language rather than just an accent/dialect of English ... looks left, looks right, doesn't see any SNP members ... that just comes from Scottish nationalism fuelled by separatist movements.
Not to be confused with Scottish Gaelic which is a totally different language.
@EddieKal A Kazakh mathematician once told me that mapping between Turkish and Kazakh is a simple matter of transforming specific letters/phonemes to specific other ones. I don't know if that's the case for all Turkic languages, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
@Randal'Thor That's way too sweeping and absolute
I would not say "just comes from"
The flip side is at least just as valid. Insisting "Scots" is not a language in any context can be seen as largely coming from British nationalism and imperial pride
 
Turkish and Azerbaijani are basically the same language, barring a few letters pronounced differently (same "mapping between" thing like Turkish and Kazakh) and a few words with completely different meanings which can lead to some embarrassing faux pas.
@EddieKal Why would British nationalism and imperial pride even lead to denying the existence of multiple languages spoken natively in Britain?
 
@Randal'Thor A native speaker disagrees with you
in Language Overflow, Jun 28 at 15:01, by M.A.R.
@EddieKal Well, my Turkish, the Turkish Turkish, and Azerbaijani are between three dialects and three different languages. I understand some of what they say, as they do mine, but it's nowhere near full comprehension
in Language Overflow, Jun 28 at 16:47, by M.A.R.
The Turkish I speak doesn't. I don't think the other two Turkishes do either.
 
@EddieKal I'm basing this on what I've heard from native speakers, including native speakers of one language working in countries speaking the other :-)
Perhaps, at least partially, another case of politics interfering with linguistics?
 
8:43 PM
@Randal'Thor Denying linguistic diversity and complexity is off the political charts.
 
@EddieKal I've seen some of those. I wouldn't call it condemning, just overtly dramatic enough to roll my eyes.
@EddieKal Are you sure?
 
@Randal'Thor Well, why would Sottisch nationalism lead to denying the Scottish speaking an English dialect?
 
Well, let me ask then, what is English
 
@NorthLæraðr What do you mean?
 
@EddieKal Not sure what you're referring to here. Of course the process of defining boundaries between languages is complex, and languages diversify and evolve including away from each other. Saying that two "different languages" are mutually intelligible isn't denying any of that.
 
8:46 PM
"Denying linguistic diversity and complexity is off the political charts."
I would say it's often very politically related
 
>off the charts
informal

at a very high level:
 
Uh...? off the political chart? I'm not sure what you were trying to say?
 
@NapoleonWilson Because "we have a whole different language, not just a different way of speaking from you" can be used as fuel for separatism, emphasising and exaggerating the differences between Scotland and England.
 
Exactly what you just said, "Very political". That's what "off the political charts" means
 
(Also, I think your spelling of "Scottish" went slightly German there ;-) )
 
8:48 PM
@EddieKal Ah.
 
@Randal'Thor Well, I get that. It was kind of a trap question, since I can see it work the other way around, too.
 
Anyone else here is a movie buff like me?
 
However, I think trying to overextend lingustical diversity is also politically fueled
 
Every time I hear a conversation about Scottish nationalism I think of this:
> Mark Renton: : It's SHITE being Scottish! We're the lowest of the low. The scum of the fucking Earth! The most wretched, miserable, servile, pathetic trash that was ever shat into civilization. Some hate the English. I don't. They're just wankers. We, on the other hand, are COLONIZED by wankers. Can't even find a decent culture to be colonized BY. We're ruled by effete assholes. It's a SHITE state of affairs to be in, Tommy, and ALL the fresh air in the world won't make any fucking difference
 
@Randal'Thor Thaht's joust my Scottisch accent.
 
@EddieKal Damn they really hate England
 
Hell, I've seen in a Scottish museum a map of geological history which claimed that Scotland and England used to be connected to entirely separate landmasses millions of years ago, Scotland with Greenland and England with continental Europe.
Politics can influence harder sciences than linguistic science.
 
@Randal'Thor That... makes no geographical sense
 
@NorthLæraðr What isn't? ;-)
 
@NapoleonWilson Fair
 
8:51 PM
@NorthLæraðr What is? ;-)
 
@NorthLæraðr IKR. At least if there was a big east-to-west mountain range across the middle of Great Britain, it'd be more plausible.
 
@Randal'Thor God decided to polymorph two islands together, apparently
 
@NapoleonWilson Dinna fash yersel'.
 
I said accent, not language.
 
8:54 PM
Why do I have a feeling that so much of Britain's history/conflict is just "I hate the Queen"
 
@NapoleonWilson Don't mention accent to Treebeard ;-)
("axe ent" - pardon the bad pun)
 
@NorthLæraðr There's also been kings.
 
Formerly America, pretty sure India, apparently some of Scotland, Ireland, formerly France, Nazi Germany, and the list goes on!
 
@NorthLæraðr A whole bunch of former British Empire countries which gained their independence still have the British Queen as their head of state. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...
 
@Randal'Thor Fair
 
8:57 PM
If Scotland had gone independent from the UK (or does in the future), chances are they would've kept the royal family.
 
Such a tiny little island, with so much influence over modern world history
 
Not least because of the big royal estate at Balmoral ;-) They won't want to give that up.
 
@NorthLæraðr I'm not sure the Nazis cared much about a king that doesn't do anything when the dude with the cigar has the actual power.
 
@Randal'Thor And had their young men not died in the thousands in Gallipoli their independence would've probably come years later
 
@NorthLæraðr Not fair at all.
 
8:58 PM
@Randal'Thor 1900s?
Industrial Revolution?
 
@NorthLæraðr ?
 
I'm not even being Eurocentric here
Mb late 1800s, 1900s
 
You wouldn't send Michael Caine to kill king George.
 
Metaphorically
 
@NorthLæraðr Sure, some scientific advances came from Britain, but that doesn't give them the right to go and take over a quarter of the world.
 
8:59 PM
@Randal'Thor I never said it did
But it's had a big impact on the world, negative or positive
 
Anyway much of the history of science in Britain consists of the Brits sticking their fingers in their ears and refusing to listen to the advances being made on the continent ;-)
 
@Randal'Thor Exactly, and send Indian, Pakistani, Australian soldiers to fight their battles, conquer other peoples on their behalf
 
They lagged behind countries like France and Germany for centuries because everything had to be about Newton.
 
I find it so funny that in America, we are literally brainwashed from birth about our nation's history, and great presidents, etc. blah blah blah and eventually you end up thinking every country learns about the American Revoltuion because it was SUCH AN important turning point in history
 
@NorthLæraðr American exceptionalism.
 
9:02 PM
Well I wasn't born here, but came to the US at elementary school
@EddieKal Honestly it's powerful
 
Some people outside Britain think that anti-continental-Europe sentiment there is a relatively recent phenomenon, due to people like Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson, while the truth is they're just the most recent figureheads in a way of thinking that's been around in one form or another for centuries.
 
I've always been curious on how they view the American Revolution in England, so I looked on Quora and majority of people were like "Yeah, I never learned about it"
 
@NorthLæraðr It was kind of an important thing, though.
 
@Randal'Thor The BNP was founded in the 1980s
 
@NapoleonWilson From what I read in Quora, it mostly serves as a backdrop for the French Revolution
 
9:05 PM
@EddieKal I guess the crumbling of the British Empire after WW2 was partly due to people from those places saying "look, we helped you win this war, now give us something in return"?
 
It's natural for schools to teach primarily about the own country's history. I would have been interested a bit more in the stuff in Britain or the US, too, except for Nazis on end. ;-) Although, we did some British history in English classes.
 
@NapoleonWilson Are you German?
 
I also remember holding a presentation about the Vietnam War in history classes, so we kind of heard about it somewhat.
 
@NapoleonWilson "English language and culture" classes? :-P
 
Vietnam War is fairly recent and pretty important globally, I'd say
Korea for the longest time literally just under some other person's control for the longest time in history
It was China (though as a pretty willing tributary state), then colonized by Japan, then like torn in half by Russia and America (thumbs up).
Like who do you even blame for the Korean War?
 
9:11 PM
Oddly the American Revolution was done as kind of an afterthought, rather than in combination with the classes on the French Revolution. But again, that's probably simply because of Eurocentric history classes, unfortunately.
 
@NapoleonWilson I mean, granted, French Revolution is way cooler than the American Revolution
Like American Revolution, people get salty over getting taxed, says "GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH" and somehow win the war (thanks France, real homie)
Now the French Revolution, on the other hand, has people getting decapitated.
 
I...don't think everyone kept their head in America either, though.
 
@NapoleonWilson Well, they were hung or tarred and feathered. But not nearly as dramatic as getting your head sliced by a giant... scissor?
 
I wouldn't want to dare suppose which is more comfortable. Or who had better reasons to complain.
 
Although the American Revolution was pretty much marked the beginning of a transition from a monarchy into democracy, French Revolution really kicked it up a notch
But then again, they kind of failed. I mean to replace one dictator with another dictator?
 
9:16 PM
I was about to say, the American Revolution was a bit more successful.
 
At least after the French Revolution, some peasants were like "Yeah, the monarch sucks! Boo" and then started all these other rebellions throughout Europe
(Mostly unsucessful)
America kind of failed too though because they forgot about women, African-Americans, and most importantly, Native Americans
 
Of course. But who thought about those before the 20th century anyway?
 
@NorthLæraðr All thrilling and stuff, getting romanticised by writers throughout Europe.
> It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done ...
 
@Randal'Thor #quotesoutofcontext
@NapoleonWilson Britain
They started in the 19th century :P
 
It's from A Tale of Two Cities.
 
9:22 PM
@NapoleonWilson I know. I read it
 
Then there is the context. ;-)
 
@NorthLæraðr This is Literature SE ;-)
 
That too.
 
@Randal'Thor It just makes it seem like the quote was talking about decapitation from the flow of our conversation
 
> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal ...
 
9:23 PM
@Randal'Thor Love that part. Apparently, it came with a giant asterisk next to it
 
@NorthLæraðr Isn't it? I haven't read aToTC, but I thought that line was from someone about to be guillotined.
 
@Randal'Thor I mean yes. I took it as a response to someone actually doing the decapitation, but now I see what you were going for
Love that book
 
I have read neither A Tale of Two Cities nor the spoonerised version by Edmund Wells.
Dec 2 '17 at 19:55, by Rand al'Thor
So tempting to troll this site with questions about and and and by Edmund Wells :-P
 
> Spock, you want to know something? Everybody's human.
 
> Sock, you want to know something? Everybody's human.
> I'm not: I'm your sockpuppet.
 
9:26 PM
@Randal'Thor Hey, that's my line.
 
@Randal'Thor Thus Spoke Deusthustra
Whoops, wrong chat. Oh well....
 
@NorthLæraðr Dragging memes from room to room :-D
 
Exactly. And chances are, only you, me, and Mithical will truly understand
 
@Randal'Thor Man is a wicked thing
 
I once had Bruce Perens tell me that the Dutch spoken in Flanders (I suppose he called it Flemish) and the Dutch spoken in the Netherlands were not mutually intelligible. Pointing out that I am a native speaker of Dutch and that I had watched a lot of Netherlandic tv programmes without any difficulty did not change his opinion ...
This Bruce Perens, for those who have never heard of thim.
 
9:33 PM
Maybe it also depends on your individual language abilities.
Oh, I thought it's some figure from the linguistics scene.
 
@Tsundoku Ooh, you got some clout
 
If it's "just" a computer dude, he's entitled to a wrong opinion on linguistics. ;-)
 
Pfff, there is a yearly dictation/spelling competition with participants from the Netherlands and Flanders. Until a few years ago, the dictation text used to be spoken by someone from the Netherlands. In spite of that, the Flemish won the competition more frequently than the Dutch.
@NorthLæraðr He was at a conference in Kristiansand in the south of Norway in the summer of 2004.
 
@Tsundoku I hope you told him to get lost
 
Well, Ned Flanders can indeed be a bit unintelligible.
 
10:15 PM
0
Q: Why does "City of Blinding Lights" say that blessings go to both those who pray and those who steal?

EJoshuaS - Reinstate MonicaThe song City of Blinding Lights by U2 contains the following verse: In the city of blinding lights, The more you know The less you feel Some pray for, others steal Blessings not just for the ones who kneel, luckily What does the last line refer to? Why do blessings go both to the ones who stea...

 
@NorthLæraðr You're assuming I'm paying attention to TSL shenanigans.
 
10:41 PM
0
Q: Title/Author of a1920-30s poem closing with " If there is no reward for devotion such as this, I'll take my chances in hell"

JimTitle/Author of a 1920-30s poem, closing with the phrase;" If there is no reward for devotion such as this, I'll take my chances in hell." The narrator being a soldier returned from Post WWI France trench warfare, speaking of the unit's pet dog.

 
11:09 PM
@Mithical That is 100% reasonable
 

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