TRPG General Chat - 2020-07-25

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12:00 AM

@BardicWizard Hmm, thank you! Did anything stand out as special or confusing? Was there any part of it you wanted to add, change, or remove?

Hot RPG Questions

12:22 AM

4

Q: I'm trying to use disciplines to manipulate someone, why should I use majesty and not dominate?

I'm designing a Daeva character, who I want to be physically powerful but still able to handle themselves socially. The two social disciplines, Majesty and Dominate, seem to have a power mismatch. The main use of each social power is to control others, or sway them to your side. This is how I wan...

vampire-the-requiem-2e

@BESW Any chance I can try out the Walkies game?

Sure!

Going on a longer hike with my son tomorrow:)

@BESW it was all very special feeling, and I think the only thing you should change is maybe adding some assurances that talking to Grim is okay, because that’s what I did

Looking for playtests over the next week: Walkies with Grim by BESW. Please give feedback in doc comments, here in chat, or on Discord if you know me there.

8

12:33 AM

Also Grim likes to dance now, @BESW and you can’t convince me otherwise

user image

@BESW okay, that's cute

12:59 AM

@BESW d’awww

And tell Grim woof grr bark bark woof woof the next time anyone sees the adorable doggie

AncientSwordRage

1:18 AM

@BESW Is it possible to play solo, then introduce someone... or is that not recommended?

Just started looking, it looks replayable

I'd love to see how that works for people.

AncientSwordRage

1:34 AM

@BESW I'll see if I can give it a go

Right now I just wanna see what people do with it as presented, without my giving much guidance.

I've had some VERY interesting responses that I never expected and probably wouldn't have had if I was trying to guide people in the testing.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW thats a good technique I've seen used for UX

1:56 AM

@nitsua60 @BardicWizard How did you use the text while playing? Did you print out Walkies, or read it on your phone, or memorize it beforehand?

Was it a constant guide while you played or was it more of an occasional reference?

@BESW My plan is to try and memorize

@BESW read it ahead of time, had it loaded on my phone as a backup, and only referenced it once (to determine what Grim wanted out of the New Place). It was very simple and easy to remember while walking.

@NautArch The more I look at lists... the more I agree with you XD

@Medix2 On the flipside, I'm trying to better understand the other argument

@NautArch inb4 we post opposite answers to our initial opinions to some potentially eventual Meta post (I'm almost done with my list of lists btw)

2:22 AM

So I almost have, when I figure out the difficulty stuff, a playtest version of my (tentatively named) Game That Teaches Kindergarteners Math But Is Fun For Older People Too, aka GTTKMBIFFOPT. Would anyone be interested in playtesting it for me?
It’s primarily for games with a sort of Star Trek feel — wierd problems show up every week and you’ve got to deal with it, usually pulling out a solution last minute that seems impossible, so for Star Trek but with magic (scenario and setting coming later). It also has simple math and can easily be played in person and used for teaching math or play…

Note: magic and chargen also coming later because I don’t want to deal with that yet. For now, pregens! I can send anyone who wants it a link to the doc

@BardicWizard Why is magic specifically a thing that needs to be created? I'm guessing whatever you're planning, you're not doing it for any of your other stats.

@BardicWizard So, 2d6 is too abrupt. The difference in the probability between getting >=8 and getting >=6 is absurdly high (around 30%). More dice, smaller values = less randomness = bad for something you want to be random

So, when you mention you don't know how to deal with that problem - you can't deal by adjusting thresholds. You have to change your dice system. There's a reason d20 and d100 are so common :P

2:38 AM

@HellSaint kindergartener in question has a hard time with adding 2 digit numbers unfortunately, so it’s d6 or d4 as of yet, possibly d8.

@Miniman spells and stuff (also coming later: specializations and stuff for characters) are what I mean by that

@BardicWizard I see. Since that's a main concern for you, I wouldn't worry too much about being too precise on the probabilities then. I would just use 6, 8, 10 and 14.

@BardicWizard I know. I'm suggesting that, like many systems, D&D influence is causing you to make magic a super extra special stat.

@HellSaint I’ll try that in playtesting with him for now, then adjust it if necessary.

If you want impossible to really feel impossible, so that someone can only do it with +3 modifier and rolling two sixes, then 15.

Half the 3.5e and 5e PHBs is devoted to lists of spells, and people still argue that spellcasters and other characters are on a level playing field.

2:41 AM

@Miniman Does anyone argue that Spellcasters and other characters are on the same level in 3.5?

@QuadraticWizard has something to say about that

@Miniman That's why I helped make an entire overhaul of 5e-dnd weapon properties to modify and enhance their usefulness... and then Paladin gets both worlds :(

@HellSaint Thousands of people, unfortunately.

@Miniman my goal is to specifically define the magic system, including some “common” spells like utility magic. It’s not unbalanced if everyone’s a spellcaster hopefully.

@Miniman While they are not drunk? :O

I mean, if you give loads of magic items to martial classes and none to spellcasters, that may work

@BardicWizard It's not necessarily about power balance, but the important thing is that you've thought about it and aren't just aping D&D.

2:44 AM

@Medix2 Honestly, if you played 3.x, 5e is pretty much perfectly balanced lul

@HellSaint It's not hard to find pages upon pages of arguments about this.

@HellSaint I just wish more of my friends wanted to play 4e... well what I really wish is more of my friends wanted to play Fireborn and Microscope and Mutant City Blues :(

@Medix2 4e although balanced for me is just boring lol

@Miniman yep! My general idea is basically a thing I threw around in a story a few months ago: all mages have an “aura” that is semi biological and they manipulate it to cause certain effects. Most magic is highly situational adapting of the most basic stuff (moving things with magic, illusion, healing, sensing extra stuff, light and dark, elemental manipulation, couple other things)

Although balance discussions are quite frequent in the interwebz, I have seen very few people actually care about it when playing as long as it's not absurd.

2:50 AM

@HellSaint The other problem with balance is balancing for everyone and balancing perceived balance...

Everyone knowns rangers suck and yet every 3 tables I get one dual wielder ranger playing Drizzt.

Not to mention the fact that having balanced classes means what? Balanced at every level? Only specific levels? Roughly similar power trajectories? So many options...

@HellSaint it’s meant to be impossible but doable, like in Star Trek when the crew spends the entire episode failing to solve a problem (failed rolls against Impossible ST) and finally pulls it off last minute.

Your Body a Landscape by Ell is an intimacy game about drawing a map on another person or having a map drawn on you.

3:17 AM

@BESW Had it up on my phone, basically had the bold "steps" in my head, so I just referenced it maybe two or three times to duoble-check I was prompting the "right" things. Which was good: I, innately, wouldn't have necessarily phrased things or thought of things in the way you did, and I think the text helps draw things out.

E.g. I don't know that I'd naturally use the vocabulary "how does the place love...", which you do to strong effect.

@MikeQ if you have one sec, do you mind just checking the one last thing I just threw into Discord?

@nitsua60 Sent you the private message. I'll get to the playtest feedback later.

No rush on your end--I just wanted to 'scope it out first =)

@nitsua60 Thanks!

And yeah, I'm trying to be audacious with my phrasing, I'm glad you noticed.

One of my favorite things as a GM/game designer is to ask leading questions that let me set up that something unexpected is true but give the player control over how it's true.

@BESW how would you advise starting to do that? Like what questions should they ask?

Read the GM advice in Lady Blackbird.

That's where I first got my taste for it.

3:28 AM

@BESW I’ll try that then, let me just see if that’s still downloaded...

Also, for really good examples read the Building the World page.

It’s good advice and I should try that with my players soon

One of the really great qualities of the Building the World questions is, if you let the players choose which to answer then you're letting them decide what implications are true and what they think are important.

For example, asking "Have you ever seen a real sky squid?" then you've already established that sky squid are a thing people think exist in the world. And if you make answering it a choice, then a player choosing to answer it is saying that they like sky squid being a thing in the world.

It's a very different question from "Are there sky squid in this world?"

I also recommend looking at indie games which are built around loaded questions.

Also look up "begging the question" because that's exactly what I'm doing with this approach.

I ask a question which can only be answered in a way that affirms something is true which we hadn't already established is true. But I take the bite out of it by giving the player something to control about HOW it's true.

3:48 AM

@BESW (People should also look up "begging the question" because I'll bet 99% of the times they've heard it used in the last 5 years it was someone meaning "prompting the question" rather than "begging the question.")

Linguistic drift gonna drift.

cf leading questions.

4:44 AM

A TTRPG supplement based on The Dragon Prince, titled "Tales of Xadia: The Dragon Prince Roleplaying Game", is being released for Cortex Prime in 2021.

Well, the West March group I had joined to check out vanished overnight in a blaze of nothing.

Server deleted, community associated with it barren of any information. Over 1000 users stranded (or anti-stranded)

Not really sure what you'd call it if the island you were on suddenly vanished and you had to literally be anywhere else.

@HellSaint I ended up using (at least til I get some other playtesters {hint hint people in chat}) 6, 8, 10, and 14 for the “standard” STs. I’m gonna mark your answer accepted in a bit, so thanks for the help! :)

@Axoren I’m sorry you have to deal with that. :-(

Wasn't all that invested.

Just sort of dumbfounded.

Still, that sucks

It's not like watching someone make the Empire State Building disappear. It's like watching someone pave over a parking space you just started using with more sidewalk.

4:56 AM

Okay, so less bad than I thought (I don’t know for sure? I can’t drive yet and know very little about metaphors like that)

You just park somewhere else.

Not a big deal.

75% of joining that group was to find a better place to be for a friend of mine who was having issues at his west march server.

Drama hits worse when it interrupts your routine and having something else to fill that slot would have been great.

25% of it was me trying to experience groups other than my own to see how other people experience the game

The longer we stick within our groups, even though it's got a good 20 people, the more I worry about an Academic Incest type situation. Stagnation of ideas and playstyle as we reach a group singularity.

Everyone starts playing like eachother and DMing like eachother until it's one homogenous mix.

We kind of have that somewhat

@Axoren yeah I’ve seen that too in my group.

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad ip for hostname in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title (102): What happens for Cash App transfer failed? by Mary Jackson on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

5:48 AM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad ip for hostname in body, bad keyword in body, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title, +1 more (364): Dissatisfaction in Cash App refund because of mistake while checking in? Appear at help gathering by Mary Jackson on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose)

Can a diamond deal with the other post by Mary Jackson?

I'm trying to figure out how the second one got deleted... did you flag the first one though?

I flagged the first one

Does SmokeDetector only notify Rubiks?

I flagged the first one too

@Axoren The flag will notify all mods, but I'm pretty sure you can only ping/notify one person with a chat message so it literally can't notify more people

They're both deleted now... though I'm still confused how

5:56 AM

@Medix2 is there a way to test if a message can notify more than one person in chat? We could try to test it ... hmm... (science officer mentality ready and waiting, Captain)

@BardicWizard Attempt and @Axoren

I was pinged.

All 4 times

Oh maybe it's just comments where you can't multi-ping... weird

@Medix2 @Medix2 @Medix2 Does this work?

I bet it's louder.

I got the ping as well

And with that, good night good night, don’t let the siblings bite

6:00 AM

@Axoren I got 1 ping but three orange rectangles, so that's something XD

Hot RPG Questions

3

Q: Which modifier added to a 1D20 has the closest outcome probability as rolling 2D20 with advantage with no modifier?

I'm trying to determine the probability of every modifier to a 1D20: 1D20 +1 1D20 +2 1D20 +3 1D20 +4 1D20 +5 vs flat 2D20s with advantage 2D20 (Keep highest) 3D20 (Keep highest) 4D20 (Keep highest) Any help would be highly appreciated

statistics dice

6:25 AM

Old news, but it turns out that a Wild Soul Barbarian is capable of basically recreating the Villain's Plot from Fullmetal Alchemist. 🤔

6:36 AM

@Medix2 Posts are automatically deleted after a certain number of spam flags.

@Medix2 Correct, only comments prevent multiple users from being notified.

520

A: How do comment @replies work?

You can use @name syntax anywhere in your comment to reply to a specific user. This will notify that user in their global inbox. There can also be notification through email if you set it up in the preferences found in your profile page. This feature is specific to comments and doesn't work in po...

@V2Blast Yeah the timelines just looked weird to me and one post was deleted within I think 50 second and the other took minutes

@V2Blast Found the feature request to add more. Denied with seemingly no explanation

6:55 AM

@Medix2 if the post was the same (i.e. same text same title etc.) probably there's some automatic thing that deletes it with less flags or something

@HellSaint Different titles but it certainly could have been something like that, great point.

@V2Blast Ooof. I enjoyed a lot about the Dragon Prince but I'm not gonna put any more money into Aaron Ehasz's pockets.

lol

I just read the news that Dragon Prince got 4 new seasons ordered by netflix :O

I'm quite happy haha

@BESW There's a novelization, a paperback book, an upcoming graphic novel, and an upcoming video game as well

Is it still owned by Wonderstorm?

'cause Wonderstorm is still helmed by Ehasz and that's not a work environment I want to sponsor.

7:01 AM

I thought the entire show was by Ehasz who apparently I need to learn more about

"'Dragon Prince' creator accused of sexist behavior by former employees" by Jake Kleinman for Inverse. Other people have affirmed this is a pattern going back to at least his days on Avatar.

Oh (found that and other articles)... Well I'm gonna sleep and hope I wake up to better news, though I'm glad I've learned this

@BESW ah #@$#$%$

that definitely sours the show

Yeah. Like, I enjoyed it and nobody can take that from me, but I'm disinclined to reward any further franchise developments with my attention and money unless/until the workplace situation is resolved.

I was so appreciative of the accurate ASL and excellent captioning too :(

7:10 AM

I really value the great work all the other creators put into the show despite those conditions, I'm gonna continue remembering it fondly for them.

One guy shouldn't discount our appreciation of everyone else on the project, that's a kind of inverse auteurship that just doesn't fly. But I don't want to keep rewarding Netflix and other companies for continuing to buy into the franchise without insisting that it clean house first.

3 hours later…

9:45 AM

@BESW I knew he worked on the show, but didn't realize he was co-creator (and thus might see some direct benefit from this deal, I assume)... :/

And yeah, the show itself seems to (still) be produced by Wonderstorm. Ehasz's alleged behavior was pretty messed up. I hope those issues are addressed, because I really enjoyed the show itself :(

(On the subject of supporting the show or not, there was a pretty interesting discussion of the complexities of boycotting and who is most impacted in the original(?) thread here and here.)

I liked the show too, it was rather enjoyable.

but it's also pretty bad that it happens to be wrapped up in this

10:10 AM

ye

AncientSwordRage

Not yet watched the show, but now I'm hesitant to do so

@V2Blast Thing is, he's not just co-creator of the show, he's co-founder of the studio. So it's not just that he'll see direct benefit, but that he's even more directly influential on the atmosphere in which everyone else works.

And yeah, there's a lot of complexity underlying the whole "consume or don't consume" thing and everybody's gotta do that work themselves.

AncientSwordRage

@BESW agreed

I see three reasons to boycott something: moral, financial, and to apply social pressure.

Based on the tweets it looks like the last two are unlikely to result from boycotting the series

In the case of TDP, I think it's important to take into account that a lot of the word of mouth "you should watch this" during the series run, specifically and loudly featured Ehasz's Avatar credentials.

And more importantly, I'd want to know what Wonderstorm is doing now about its workplace environment. Because those complaints were made internally for a very long time before they were made publicly, with no response, so we know they don't care about workplace harassment for the sake of their workers--but did public shaming drive them to change anything? If so, then I'll feel a LOT better about continuing to give them some of my media-consuming resources.

If not... well, the point of coming out was to make changes happen.

So I'm gonna look at my other options for supporting the people who are risking themselves to make that change happen.

Free Games Digest 2020 from the San Jenaro Co-Op.

Hot RPG Questions

10:35 AM

4

Q: What spell, magic item, racial, or class ability will give you the most temporary HP?

I was wondering, using only the official hardcover books (no UA or 3rd party), what is temporary HP cap at lv 20? class, playable race, feats, non-legendary magic items, and spells allowed. You can use an epic boon if you have a way in game to get one. (ie through a feat)

dnd-5e optimization temporary-hit-points

4 hours later…

AncientSwordRage

2:16 PM

@HotRPGQuestions I suppose we should just get it all out of our system

AncientSwordRage

2:49 PM

POWER WORD WALKIES!

4

Good morning!

Gmorning!

AncientSwordRage

3:26 PM

iTag!

yo

@NautArch Well I'm at least giving up expanding my list of lists, but if you wanna look at it I can provide a link to the google doc

Is voting to have questions from 3-4 years ago reopened a bad idea?

Also can people access the chat rooms even if they can't talk in them?

3:54 PM

@Medix2 probably... unless you care about the answer to the question, I guess

@Medix2 for frozen chat rooms, yes. Like ones that are too old

4:04 PM

@HellSaint I just know I see users show up here with 1 rep and never saying anything; wasn't sure if they can read it all

@Medix2 oh, then idk. I never tried clicking at the chat with 1 rep.

And I'm not willing to create a new acc for science.

The chat privilege says you can read it.

> You can always enter chat rooms and listen with no rep at all.

You can. I’ve been logged out, didn’t notice, and looked at chat. Could see everything, just couldn’t post

@HellSaint Oh yup, I honestly wasn't expecting that to be in there

4:38 PM

The transcripts are publicly indexed, too.

(e.g. third result of this search for "lolfigsl")

2 hours later…

Hot RPG Questions

6:25 PM

7

Q: Are Darts sold separately?

This might sound like a silly question, but it seems oddly placed in the PHB. Looking simply on what characters get regarding starting equipment, every item listed, regardless of class, seems to indicate they gain 1 unit found in the weapons list (save for 2 daggers or swords)... All except for t...

dnd-5e weapons equipment

@HotRPGQuestions I keep reading that as some sort of "Batteries not included" thing

1 hour later…

7:56 PM

lol

8:24 PM

I could use some quick spell balance advice, for D&D5e

Oh?

Reverse Misty Step: You teleport one creature you can see within 30 feet to you. If they are unwilling, they can make a wisdom saving throw against your spell save dc to avoid it

3rd level spell or 4th? Is it balanced?

Oh, that's an interesting question

What sort of single target cc spells exist at those levels?

My sorcerer is developing it for a “break my former mentor out of jail” mission, if it helps

@BardicWizard name: Misty Hook

8:31 PM

Uhm... they are teleported to (within 5 ft of) you, right? That's what I assumed from reverse misty step, but you know

Yep, sorry forgot to specify

An unoccupied space within 5ft

Naturally

I'm not sure it's possible to tell outside of through playtesting. It's simply to other to make any comparisons I can think of

It’s def weaker than Dimension Door, but better than misty step by at least a bit. It might be comparable to fly

8:54 PM

@BardicWizard I think I asked about exactly that somewhere...

Ah I asked this, quite different actually: "Turning the Mystic's Baleful Transposition into a spell; what level should this be?"

9:10 PM

I’ll probably put it as an actual question

Can you teleport them into a AoE or over a cliff or pit?

Probably not? It’s not a setting where we have stuff like that really. I’m doing it to break my mentor out of (evilish) police custody before someone else kills him.

By the current wording, probably. You could mitigate that use (if undesired) by including letting the target choose which space next to you to go to

I don’t have many damaging spells so it might be used for that at some point, but it’s really meant for getting an ally out of trouble in a hurry

At least right now.

It might be used also to remove the artificer from delicate negotiations if he starts being an idiot again.

9:27 PM

This is kinda something 5e (and its balance ideas) don't handle very well, and certainly for a homebrew review much considerations would be towards how it is too good in constructed situations

How would people in this chat, as players, abuse it?

For a specific game, it might not matter. What matters would be on the lines of it making your character too powerful and thus making the game less fun

It’s against an ERFtLW artificer, a Oath of the Crown Paladin, and a Swashbuckler Rogue

@BardicWizard Depends on there being cliff edges around

and it's OK for something to have caveats balance-wise ("this might not be a good fit for your table in situations X Y and Z")

just a matter of documenting them :)

9:30 PM

@Someone_Evil the worst we have been near is a bridge

I'd probably port enemies: into an AoE, off a cliff, into the party, into the air...

And we spent the entire time trying to get the van back up while not getting fireballed

Our DM is awesome

Hot RPG Questions

9:43 PM

3

Q: What's the DC for Hatchling's Flame?

Saving Throw: Reflex half You focus a burning aura of energy at the end of your blade. It forms a seething sphere that, after a moment, bursts into a torrent of energy. The Desert Wind discipline teaches its students how to unleash their ki as burning energy. This maneuver allows you to create a...

dnd-3.5e tome-of-battle

9:55 PM

I posted it as a question specifically focused on spell level

0

Q: Is this homebrew Misty Hook spell balanced?

In a game I play, my GM allows a lot of custom homebrew (with approval), including spells. A situation has come up where my sorcerer is trying to make a version of Misty Step pulling a nearby creature to you, instead of teleporting to a nearby space. My GM doesn’t have much of an opinion on it ye...

dnd-5e spells homebrew-review

I wonder whether compulsion ends up being a relevant comparison point (despite the many differences)

@BardicWizard "space of their choice" seems odd for an unwilling creature

Also, whats the casting time

@ThomasMarkov Well, it's my fault it's on there (see above)

Oops will edit

@ThomasMarkov gm says one action

10:27 PM

@Shalvenay stole your name for it, by the way. Thanks

@BardicWizard no worries, hope it's useful :)

Why does "Misty Hook" put me in mind of a, probably not very good, slightly pulp-y mystery/crime invesitgation novel, I wanna say it's set in a fishing community?

@Someone_Evil dunno. It makes me think of mist making a hook that grabs the target and just pulls it over, where the target is shouting “aaah put me down help auughhh”

10:46 PM

I think as "Misty Hook is the heroine of the novel by the same name, which heavily features big monsters and supernatural mysteries because it's cool, but really is about coming to terms with being a normal person in a small town"

@Someone_Evil Misty Hook sounds like a name for a female villain in a noir graphic novel like Sin City

@ThomasMarkov I sent my dm a screenshot of your answer. He just said “lmao” and logged off. I am fairly certain that’s meant as a compliment, hopefully

@BardicWizard Thomas is confused

So am I. So am I.

@BardicWizard thinking about it more, im torn.

11:01 PM

@Medix2 The chat rooms are entirely public, and seeded to the Googles.

nvm im good.

@BESW help my dm and the other players found this

Now they are laughing at me over text

(Elected moderators and paid employees can make private rooms.)

That's not very kind of them.

@BESW in the way only people who’ve known someone for years laugh, where it’s laughing with someone not against them

Okay. What help are you asking for, then?

11:07 PM

laptop died, yikes, might be terminal. Off to see doctor PC on MOnday...

@BESW Nvm. It was meant as sort of a joke (Like how someone might say “help my friends all want me to socialize”)

Ah

Natalie Libra's Indie Kids Menus (or, Anti-Sisyphus for Kids). A game with colorable animals.

11:34 PM

3 upvotes away from daily rep cap with 25 minutes left :/

And how many downvotes away from the daily rep floor?

Hah. I’ve got 4 minimum before I hit the cap. And something to add +2 rep, given a downvote earlier

11:54 PM

2 left rip me

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