TRPG General Chat - 2020-07-22 (page 2 of 3)

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AncientSwordRage

3:00 PM

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Hot RPG Questions

10

Q: Can the Staff of the Woodlands be subject to an Awaken spell?

A Staff of the Woodlands can take the form of a healthy tree (60 feet tall / 5-foot-diameter trunk / branches spread 20-foot radius). The Awaken spell can give sentience to a tree, potentially turning this item into an Awakened Tree. This would make a really nifty, helpful and interesting magic i...

dnd-5e spells monsters magic

AncientSwordRage

not that one

AncientSwordRage

3:13 PM

@Someone_Evil how did I not find that suggested question?

@AncientSwordRage Considering how much the topic was talked about in chat, I don't know how the rest of us didn't either :)

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil hah good point

it probably contains enough info to answer my Q

Hot RPG Questions

8

Q: Unlisted effects of Conditions

In a game I DM'd, a PC had cast a spell with a Concentration requirement and was subsequently Paralyzed. I quickly checked the description of the Paralyzed condition, which said nothing about Concentration but did say that the character was Incapacitated. I checked Incapacitated, which also say...

dnd-5e conditions concentration

AncientSwordRage

@Someone_Evil I think this is a good dupe target:

-2

Q: Which spells benefit from the Spell Sniper feat?

Looking at the Spell Sniper feat (PHB, p. 170), it seems to be potentially useful - but when I started looking for spells that could be used with it, the choices seem really limited. This makes me concerned that the feat itself is not a good long term choice feat for a character. What is the lis...

dnd-5e spells feats ranged-attack

I've updated the answer to cover my question explicitly, and voted to close the storm sphere one as a dupe of it.

3:29 PM

@AncientSwordRage good edit there.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov thanks

Fun Facts with data explorer: the average rep at which a user acquires the generalist badge is 24k

@ThomasMarkov Everywhere? RPG?

rpg.se

The bludgeoning damage UA question is reopened

@NautArch Oh wow, what a question this is, quite the list

AncientSwordRage

3:40 PM

@Medix2 It sure is, it sure is

I don't think it answers the storm sphere question though

Just because that's a specific example that requires more rules-reading and analyzing to come to a conclusion compared to just listing some spells

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 it now calls out that spell specifically with the reason

That edit seems... bad to me; it adds a lot of detail the answerer did not agree to having added

AncientSwordRage

14 mins ago, by Thomas Markov

@AncientSwordRage good edit there.

Also an answer addressing something doesn't make something a duplicate, only the question

AncientSwordRage

3:43 PM

I dunno, it helps the answer

Like we have lots of questions about specific things that a more general questions could have answered

63% of users with the generalist badge get it between 10k and 20k

I'll go grab the examples I use...

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 the thing is, without the edit, that answer is wrong - not all of the linked spells work with spell sniper

"Does ki count as magic for the purpose of an antimagic field, or is it only fluff?" is very technically answer-able in the "how to know if something is magic" question but it's specific to the point that it just isn't

@AncientSwordRage Wrong answers aren't anyone's for the correcting. Post a comment or your own answer as far as I'm concerned, not one-hundred extra words

AncientSwordRage

3:48 PM

Making my own answer would have just been copying their answer, and adding to it, which seems more pointless

@Medix2 and the original poster of that answer hasnt logged in since july 8th of last year

@ThomasMarkov That doesn't let you edit their answer freely

It was an objectively correct addition to an accepted and most upvoted answer.

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 I agree that isn't what justifies it

@ThomasMarkov I honestly don't think that matters. I'm not going to go edit somebody's optimization post because I found a way to improve it; I will drop a comment or leave my own answer

AncientSwordRage

3:51 PM

26

Q: Clarification regarding editing answers of other users

Today I edited a post to fix a minor bug in an answer for which another user disagreed with and commented: Do not agree editing an active user's highly rated 5 yr old answer is good SO etiquette. Better left for [the original author of the post] to do as desired. In general, I don't edi...

discussion edits

> to fix a minor bug

AncientSwordRage

> Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it.

the edit being substantial doesn't exclude it from being valid

You also give a justification the answerer may very much not agree with

I don't even agree with it myself and would sooner point to the spell's range not actually doing anything when it comes to those attacks

AncientSwordRage

Is this worth taking to meta?

Was just gonna say, open a Meta if you want, I definitely think the edit was too much, but if I'm proven wrong, very well

3:57 PM

@AncientSwordRage If you feel strongly that you should, please do. My personal take is that adding that much information warrants its own answer (which is what I do if the OP can't be found or doesn't wish to include the information)

I think this is a case where there's quite a spectrum of philosophies about what is best. Some people are fine with significantly changing some aspects of another person's answer with an edit. Others not so much. I don't think there is an easy place to draw that line concretely that everyone could agree on.

AncientSwordRage

@DavidCoffron I'm writing one now

I'm just rather sure that if the storm sphere question ought to be closed then this one should be as well

@Rubiksmoose Agreed. And if you want a weird example: I would be totally fine with someone editing my answer if it improves the answer, but would never do such a substantial change to someone else's answer

@DavidCoffron I just leave comments and post my own answer because I feel terrible about putting words in somebody else's mouth, but that's a me thing

4:01 PM

@DavidCoffron I'm also completely fine with substantial edits to my answers. I probably lean more towards being ok with correcting other people's posts in some ways. Though there is definitely a limit for me.

Yeah this is probably just one of those "hard lines are impossible and people won't agree anyways" sorta things :(

Like if a new user posted an answer and it had one really wrong line in it that was causing an otherwise correct answer to get downvotes. I'd consider removing that line. It's one of those things where it is so contextual it is even hard to generalize with me. Would two lines be too much? How about having to add a paragraph?

Apologies if I came across as aggressive or just negative in general; changing what other people say is just something I've had no fun experiences with in my personal life

You didn't come across that way to me at least :) You are all good.

And I'm sure a certain segment of answerers is very happy you have that philosophy as well. Given the amount of rage that we occasionally get with even minor edits to some posts...

And heaven help us if we dare remove a comment from someone.

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 I can understand that

4:09 PM

@AncientSwordRage And reading again, I see where you're coming from as well and will appreciate the time I'll be spending contemplating my stance and how it should/could apply to this Site

AncientSwordRage

@Medix2 thanks

I tend to feel like once a question is posted, it no longer belongs to the user, but you shouldn't flip the answer fro ma yes to a no etc.

I've had bad experiences, where someone's scooped my answer, added a line, then posted it

@AncientSwordRage Yes. I think this is a line where most users could agree on. And I feel this is even more certain after votes have come in on that answer.

Heck, I won't even flip my own answer 99% of the time after voting has begun on it.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose which answer?

the meta, or the one I edited?

@Rubiksmoose Yeah related to that is something I think is interesting... an older post with upvoted answers I assume has less traffic if it gets a new answer than a recent post that gets a new answer. So when finding an older post that has an incomplete or wrong answer, posting your own just has a different effect...

@AncientSwordRage Oh I just meant a hypothetical answer.

4:19 PM

Though what I just mentioned also has exceptions where new answers to old questions somehow get tons of views an votes without a bounty being placed

@Medix2 Yup. Traffic/voting drops off precipitously for the vast majority of questions. The best time to get votes in in right when the Q is posted. It's one of the things that SE is not the best at, but that there's also not an easy solution for (various other mechanics, eg bounties, have been created to help compensate for the lacking area though)

AncientSwordRage

Here is my meta question

In the long tail, I think the correct answers do tend to rise to the top given enough time. But sometimes that can be a lot longer than would be the case in a perfect world.

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose I think sometimes it takes too long

@AncientSwordRage For sure, it is frustrating to know something is right but have to wait so long to have it show in the votes.

4:22 PM

@Rubiksmoose This is especially difficult when a new book vastly changes several previous answers from being right to being wrong or something like the Crawford tweets fiasco...

Definitely.

@Medix2 only one fiasco? ;-)

@Rubiksmoose fiascos? fiascoes? fiasci?

Schema... schema, scehmas, scehmae, schemata...

Fiascade?

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose fiascopodes

XD

4:26 PM

@Rubiksmoose Correct answers only remain correct for long times in a stable system. Lots of the old highly voted "correct" SO answers aren't correct anymore. Stuff gets fixed, errata'd, added to, etc.

ive answered six questions today...if V2Blast goes on an edit spree ill be set on rep tomorrow too

Yup. Versioning is simply an area SE does not do well.

@ThomasMarkov If? If???

The secret is they're always on an edit spree

@GcL Oh no how do I spell spree-ing... I want it to be spring so bad

4:27 PM

Spreeeying

spreeeng?

"gerund or present participle: spreeing"

I like how we both decided tripple "e"s were the way to go

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose this is my current most upsetting answer

@Rubiksmoose i see no other reality.

4:28 PM

The best triple E's start with an I

Oh good fleeing is a word, phew

@Medix2 fleeeng.

@ThomasMarkov reeeality

@ThomasMarkov IIRC English avoids having the same letter three times in-a-row, English has lots of quirks...

@Medix2 English is nothing but quirks!

4:30 PM

@Rubiksmoose Sometimes they have nice explanations, history, or rules... and then sometimes they don't. I really thought linguistics would have all the answers and then words like "targeting" exist (it breaks a rule that would probably take a bit to explain)...

do we need to create an elemental plane of english to parallel our math one? :P:P:P

Now I really want to know if any post has back-to-back edits that are both reversions to other edits and both done by the same user...

@Medix2 I thought the same thing about physics when I decided to go into it. Oh those halcyon SquareDeer days.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov lol

@ThomasMarkov Only if I can spout random linguistics facts, especially the ones that have nothing to do with English besides like "Look what English could have done!"

4:32 PM

@ThomasMarkov I think it should be perpendicular ;-)

@Rubiksmoose Askew

Are you askew to something? With something? From something? Uhhh what's the preposition here? Maybe things just are askew?

from? maybe?

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov plane of linguistics?

@Rubiksmoose I'm gonna say "line A is askew maybe line B" now, thank you

Linguistics is just letter math. Prove me wrong.

@Medix2 XD

AncientSwordRage

4:35 PM

@Rubiksmoose Linguine is just better Pasta. Prove me wrong.

@AncientSwordRage I'd live on the elemental plane of pasta.

3

Apparently things are described as being skew to other things... TIL

TIL as well

3

Q: Was this an edit too far?

I recently made a substantial edit to an answer, that would make a good dupe target. In line with this help page editing Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it. I feel the edit I made is in line with those, along with covering a mistake in the origin...

discussion editing

AncientSwordRage

4:54 PM

@Rubiksmoose would different regions have different kinds of pasta, and does it border onto the elemental plane of ragu?

@AncientSwordRage I wanted to make a four color theorem + pasta joke... but don't know how

four noodle theorem? with four or more noodles in a bowl, it is impossible to tell if the bowl contains individual noodles or is actually one long noodle without removing the noodles manually.

@ThomasMarkov That reminds me of when I tried to spiralize something and ended up with one giant spiral

havent seen @nitsua60 today.

5:09 PM

@Rubiksmoose If I lived on the elemental plane of pasta, I'd quickly become the size of the elemental plane of pasta

Himitsu_no_Yami

What qualifies as a "well-received" question for the Inquisitive and Socratic badges? Anyone know?

Positive score and not closed I think

@AncientSwordRage Definitely different regions of the plane = different pasts. The best time is when the plane collides with the plane of cheese though.

Himitsu_no_Yami

hmm does it take time to update then?

@AncientSwordRage I always thought of the prime material as meatspace. Prime meat-terial plane.

5:12 PM

The pun game is strong today lol

@Himitsu_no_Yami The scripts run on a schedule. Not sure what the schedule is though.

There's the great spaghetti forest in the middle, vast plains of lasagna to the south, and of course the macaroni (and cheese) oceans

@Someone_Evil or macaroni pudding if you're British.

@Himitsu_no_Yami No idea if this is still accurate but "Any open question that is not deleted and has a of score >= 1 is considered well-received" and "Only days where all questions asked have remained open and not deleted, with a score of zero or higher, count (source)"

@Himitsu_no_Yami Since they're counting per day, probably some time after the UTC day change (in about 7 hours?)

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Medix2 "all questions asked have remained open" that explains it

5:15 PM

Oh and further reading on MSE about badges

@Someone_Evil That was upsettingly uninformative I found

I found this on Math Meta, and this on Overflow had more details

Just dig around in meta for a while /S

@Medix2 Including the "further criteria" section?

@Someone_Evil Ah it describes what a well received question is by describing what a qualifying day is... weird

@Medix2 About par for SE documentation...

AncientSwordRage

5:36 PM

@GcL likewise

@Rubiksmoose plane of dairy

:55027157 no

Himitsu_no_Yami

:55027157 I wanna say yes since it's just a force but also wanna say no cus "can perform simple tasks that a human servant could do" a human servant can't fly

might be a valid mainsite question though

hmmm, how does it compare to spiritual weapon

@Himitsu_no_Yami What if all my human servants are 20th level wizards?

Himitsu_no_Yami

@Rubiksmoose touché

5:41 PM

;-)

@AncientSwordRage I could finally meet the Dairy Queen!

Himitsu_no_Yami

@ThomasMarkov spiritual weapon could almost certainly fly as it's described as floating

@MikeQ I am going to monkee around with dynamic lighting this weekend a bit so that 3 August goes better; I felt that my DMing Monday had a clunkiness to it that disrupted the flow a bit. I am trying to put a couple of tools together for the next session so that it clunks less.

5:57 PM

@Himitsu_no_Yami SPiritual weapon can be moved up to 20'. SO it doesn't fly, but nothing about going vertical. Unseen Servant can move up to 15' (not be moved.) It doesn't talk about flying, but it is an unregistered case.

@NautArch We have some questions on invoke duplicity or whatever it's called

If I had to make a ruling, i'd probably not allow it unless there was a utility reason for it. Let the utility highlight. If you're trying to do something combat related with it, i probably would raise an eyebrow.

Himitsu_no_Yami

For unseen servant if you're trying to use it in combat at all I'd raise an eyebrow

Oh I was thinking of "Can an Echo Knight move its echo image vertically or though walls?" and the related links I put below it

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose I would not enjoy that plane.

Correction, I would enjoy it then regret my actions shortly afterwards

5:59 PM

XD :'(

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose the plane of lactose free dairy however!

6:14 PM

any of yall own an early printing of Curse of Strahd?

This question attracts a lot of bad answers if you haven't voted in the queue yet, then it might be a good idea to do so.

@Akixkisu my man!

@Akixkisu I don't think it does? The deleted answers are all deleted by their authors since the question was unclear and they also weren't lengthy/complete answers

@Akixkisu I posted mine right after the question was posted, then decided to delete it.

hmmm it looks like all the posts were self deleted shortly after posting by known users. I don't see a huge issue with that. Maybe there was something confusing about the question though?

6:19 PM

@Rubiksmoose It being on 3 close votes having already been closed and reopened does seem to suggest that

@Rubiksmoose the lack of bounds and the lack of complete answers is what does it for me.

@Someone_Evil Ah yes, I hadn't looked closely at the question yet.

I'm going to try and work on a meta about list type questions. I think it's time for a revisit, but I fully expect pushback.

@NautArch If they're banned I can still make the lists, so I'm happy. Plus if people ask them I'm sure somebody wouldn't mind answering in chat (at least I wouldn't since most list questions ask for stuff I also want to know)

With the important distinction between list questions and list type question

6:21 PM

@NautArch o7

@Someone_Evil Is it though? I suggest a look at [meta:tag:list-questions]... well that didn't work. I kinda gave up on the distinction since only some people maintain it

@Medix2 it looks like a question that should be workshoped in meta.

Not that any of the answers are egregious.

Let's just 5e this thing. We can have List Questions, list questions, and "list" Questions and have different policies for each.

@Someone_Evil I'll try and clarify in the eventual meta, but my differentiator is when folks ask "how can I do this" when there is more than one answer. If there is more than one possibility and it's generally just parsing through and doing heavy lifting OP doesn't, then it's a list question (*for me)

Because there is no way to differentiate answers if everyone just puts up one potential option.

or a couple of options.

@Medix2 It's important since one of them is an old term for a question type that is decidedly off-topic, and the other isn't (yet)

6:26 PM

It's just a distinction I've seen enough people not maintain that maintaining it felt... counter-productive

Personally, I don't think they need to be made off-topic, but talking about them might be a very good idea

I'll highly recommend reading all of these though @NautArch

@Medix2 It's relevant when folks start trying to close valid (bounded) list questions citing "list questions" which don't actually refer to the same thing

@ThomasMarkov I'll check when I get home tonight, I think I have a first printing

Hmm. THis one and mxy's answer seems to actually be what I was going to say.

I think we've moved away from it, though.

Because we consistently allow list questions that draw undifferentiated answers.

6:29 PM

It;s just weird that our topicality of list questions question states: "A “list question” is a question that generates an endless list of answers, none of them better or worse than any other."while the [list-questions] tag is described as "Meta questions about mainsite questions asking for lists or likely to generate list-answers."

I'm personally fond of switching to "Compiling questions", as in a question which asks for an answer to compile all the options which fit X criteria in Y (bounded) set

@Someone_Evil Yeah, this is a thing I have noticed.

@Someone_Evil Honestly, I'm kinda not. Because we never agree on what are reasonable bounds and it's just a purely low quality question of "find and compile all this for me"

@KorvinStarmast I'm pretty sure the validity of those is what's in question here

When there is a constant argument of what are sufficient bounds and how complete of an answer do I need to provide, then the question format isn't working.

6:33 PM

@NautArch making sure that the classification has an agreed meaning is the goal here, right?

That's why I try to do an exhaustive search and if people find other things, I incorporate their findings with credit given; or just make it a CW answer and say "help"

The recent questions today (one specifically on the bludgeoning) was posted as needing more info, and was reopened before any was added. And incomplete answers are rolling in, which makes it impossible to for there to be a differentiator. It's just a collection of partial lists.

@KorvinStarmast That would probably help. But getting consensus to agree on what sufficient bounds are and that answers should be complete is going to remain difficult. Not impossible, but my gut is saying it's an unlikely event.

You also can't know the bounds until you know the answer... A question can sound limitless and have one and only one answer (for now)

@Medix2 Do you have an example of that? I can't think of one.

@NautArch and I can't protect it ... 😛

6:35 PM

They might come close to 'read the book' to me, depending on how much expertise is needed to compile the answer. This is where the standard "What have you tried?" and "Where have you searched yourself?" come in

@KorvinStarmast nor can i unprotect it :P

@NautArch "What are all the ways to [thing that can only be done through one specific method]"

@Someone_Evil ANd in general, those are not provided, often not asked for, and the questions still receive upvotes.

@NautArch At least it ain't a dupe hammer war ... 🤣

@NautArch Which once again shows that the wisdom of crowds ... often isn't.

@KorvinStarmast Darn those 3d6 wisdom stat roll.

6:37 PM

@NautArch But information was added (sorry on the late response) but there was a meaningful edit made between the closure and reopening that added details)

@NautArch You know I'll ask for the un-acquirable statistics on that...

@Medix2 nods I personally think it wasn't enough, but that's what the review queue is for. At lest 5 people think its fit for answers.

@Medix2 No bounds were really added for the build itself, just the party.

@Medix2 can you check the comments on my answer here? Am I missing something?

@DavidCoffron Just like there are folks here who firmly believe that they can provide just a few examples in a list answer call it complete. And get upvotes for it.

I'm firmly in the camp of if you want to answer a question like that, put in all the work to answer it completely.

@ThomasMarkov Oh that sounds complicated uhhhhhhhhhh. You seem to be right, but those features definitely all act a bit weird sometimes

@NautArch Resounding agreement to that

6:40 PM

@ThomasMarkov No; you're right. That is one reason why the query sequence doesn't work

But my current viewpoint is that we've had to close questions because of primarily opinion based answers. We should close questions because of primarily incomplete answers.

And maybe that's the tack I need to take. The questions are okay, the answers haven't been.

Isn't the (nominal) solution to partial answers a bounty to motivate complete ones?

3d6

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•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

•

Dang

6:41 PM

@NautArch I got a 14. you?

(lucky beats good, eh?)

I asked earlier (I swear I did this) if a bunch of partial answers was okay... *digging begins, I'll return eventually*

@Someone_Evil Given the response I've gotten when I've asked for more complete answers, I'mnot sure that's a valid solution.

@NautArch Yeah; honestly. The answers (including my now deleted ones) read like forum posts. "Try this" rather than expert answers to help the querent "here are the pros and cons of all the options that meet the criteria"

@KorvinStarmast always

The pushback for that request has been...strong.

And then there's the likely issue of scope creep as new material comes out. With a list, odds are much higher that the answer will have to change then simply an updated rule.

Found it: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/11?m=55001221#55001221

6:43 PM

@NautArch And change more than once, while a rule changing more than once is very rare

Doesn't that only apply to specific systems and games that actually are receiving new books/updates/content/errata though?

@Medix2 For the latter, yes.

But that's just one aspect issue.

@NautArch A fair point

I'm fine ignoring that piece of it because for me it's the least important.

But maintenance is an isssue for some of the more common systems, <ahem, 5e, ahem>

To quote Someone_Evil earlier "a new answer which sums all of them adds minimal value. We're perfectly fine with having a bounded list represented as a chain of answers (I think it might even be part of the original SO 'spec' somewhere"

6:45 PM

@Medix2 I 100% disagree that chain of answers is a good thing in order to answer the question.

That literally is the undifferentiated list we're trying to avoid.

And to quote Doppelgreener: "Simply put, "what are some ways to X?" indicates it's always correct to suggest an answer with an additional way that has not been covered yet (leading to an undifferentiated list of answers, none of them better or worse than any other), but "How can I X?" or things in the direction of "Give me a comprehensive solution to X" simply prompt people to try to provide comprehensive solutions and are less prone to indicate that merely chucking in one more thing is OK."

I'm just quoting the conversation I linked to earlier since I was asking about this

But here's an example question you could use, if it works @NautArch

@Medix2 I've posted answers that combined a set of answers before, and it usually gets downvoted

@DavidCoffron Same :(

@KorvinStarmast that would be great. Page 240, Strahd's stat block, unarmed strike

@ThomasMarkov confused about bludgeoning vs slashing?

6:50 PM

I wanted to compare my recent printing to an older one.

Let me check mine; 1 sec

I cannot find a source the has the issue described in that question.

which question?

Here is the question: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/172336/…

Ah. Gotcha

Let me look

6:52 PM

Apparently OP had a source which dealt slashing and ignored bludgeoning.

But even the sketchy pirate content aggregator sites I checked didnt have that issue.

I got mine when it first came out; says bludgeoning both places

@ThomasMarkov How did my brain parse that with "sketchy-pirate" being a unit...

Maybe translation?

@NautArch I'm fairly certain the condition effects questions is explicitly not concerned with races and classes and magic items

@DavidCoffron not unlikely. I have come across a few translation errors that look like a butched copy and paste job.

6:55 PM

@Medix2 what makes you say that?

Just that there aren't things to consider?

@NautArch "I am principally interested in consequences that I should track as a DM. I would consider class- and race-based abilities primary the responsibility of the player. "

Isn't spellcasting a class-based ability?

But the spell rules aren't

@NautArch But monsters can concentrate on things too. Monsters don't get Danger Sense and if they do it explicitly says when it stops working

@DavidCoffron how would a translation get bludgeoning->bludgeoning in one place and bludgeoning->slashing one or two sentences later?

6:57 PM

@ThomasMarkov You'd be surprised; I wouldn't, but you would (I've spent a lot of time looking at translations...)

understanding that if you are incapacitated breaks concentration is pretty important and clear.

HOnestly, that question seems like "Hey, I just realized I missed something, what others things might I be missing"

it's really generally more of a reaction than a problem needing a solution

@ThomasMarkov Maybe some sketchy pirate site is responsible for the miswording?

@NautArch I couldnt quite put my finger on it, but this is the take ive been waiting for.

Yeah but that's the same as questions like "In what ways can only the Incapacitated condition be caused?" it's not a problem of any real sort beyond just sheer curiosity (hi optimization problems)

@Medix2 Which again, to me, is "I could look this up, but I don't feel like it - can you". It's a list. It's pure legwork. There is literally no expertise needed.

6:59 PM

@NautArch Well... the easiest way is through D&D Beyond search and then filtering through the content to find things that don't cause other conditions. That doesn't take expertise but it dose take having the content

@DavidCoffron Well, if you haven't invested ing etting the content, getting it through this means isn't really the right thing to do, either.

This might be one of those weird categories where self-answering might majorly affect the perception of the question (for the better)

@NautArch I feel like a lot of our questions are answered by "reading the rules", not just lists

@Someone_Evil absolutely! It shows effort.

@Someone_Evil yes, QA styles of this sort of questions that are meant as resources are great.

7:02 PM

But using the stack to bypass purchase of sources to get answers I'm pretty uncomfortable with.

@NautArch I concur, but I'm sure it happens

That's more of an issue of over-quoting, itsn't it? Being told the option is in that specific book saves you buying those books you don't need, but the answer shouldn't fully replace the purchase of the book to use

@Someone_Evil Was just typing this; yeah it's a quoting issue. Since a list answer could literally only name the things in the list and not describe them

@ThomasMarkov o/

This dandwiki version of Strahd is not different enough for my liking: dandwiki.com/wiki/Strahd_Von_Zarovich,_Variant_(5e_Creature)

7:05 PM

@nitsua60 Hey, David Coffron checked his early printing of CoS and it matched mine

D&DB will also let you search and filter on content on things you don't own, and if the question is solved that easily, it's low quality. But not all compile questions are that trivial to compile

Imma delete that, not going to quote paywall from dandwiki

@DavidCoffron Their second column contains one line? wow "This is a buffed up version of Strahd for those who thinks he's nerfed in Curse of Strahd."

@NautArch It is technically different, but just more powerful spells

(and magic armor + a bit more HP)

I just realized that condition question is asking for a list of unlisted things which makes them... listed

7:08 PM

@Medix2 "list questions list question lists" -T. Markov 2020

Found a possible source for the bad text!

homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/source/Nrkpj0EjJ

@ThomasMarkov Cool. Sorry--I wasn't able to make it over to the office today. Hours and hours of Zoom PD caused an errand-jam =)

@DavidCoffron thats gotta be it, also MY EYES ARE BURNING

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov just splash them with holy water

@AncientSwordRage But that deals 1d4 damage since its an improvised weapon...

> In either case, make a ranged attack against a target creature, treating the holy water as an improvised weapon.

dndbeyond.com/equipment/holy-water-flask

7:14 PM

@ThomasMarkov aha, DDB stinks it up yet again ...

@DavidCoffron Related answer of mine

@KorvinStarmast DDB was accounting for Strahd's wolf form, which the printed book does not.

@NautArch we get a lot of those ... but then, we are apparently no longer an expert site? Or are we?

@ThomasMarkov I don't think that is relevant to holy water, which has no such language. It just does radiant damage against fiends and undead

The improvised weapon damage isn't overwritten

AncientSwordRage

@DavidCoffron "Does splashing the contents of holy water deal 1d4-1 damage to non-undeas/non-fiends?"

@ThomasMarkov aha!

7:18 PM

@AncientSwordRage Uh. Yeah?

@DavidCoffron Is the 2d6 radiant damage in addition to the 1d4+STR bludgeoning damage?

AncientSwordRage

@DavidCoffron so splashing water... Not throwing the water deal damage?

That makes splashing my face in the morning potentially lethal

@MikeQ Splash water using strength... this sounds interesting

@AncientSwordRage The text says in either case

AncientSwordRage

@DavidCoffron RAW Vs sensible interpretation.

7:19 PM

@MikeQ Maybe? It's very unclear

@AncientSwordRage Grog the barbarian used Splash.... But nothing happened!

@ThomasMarkov Also, does this imply that you don't add Dex to the 1d4 per turn?

Do thrown breakable items (like oil flasks) do damage when they hit?

AncientSwordRage

@Rubiksmoose it's risky to grog anyone, but the barbarian..!

@DavidCoffron "To be clear, the damage that occurs at the start of each turn is damage from Alchemist's Fire, not damage from improvised weapon, so it's certainly not going to add the Dex modifier."

7:20 PM

@Medix2 I'm good at reading :P

Yeah that was my interpretation as well. Deals the 1d4+dex from the improv but then burns later

@MikeQ Great find!

@AncientSwordRage hah!

I think we should do these kinds of comments more often:

Hey there! Good answer. I just wanted to let you know that your now have enough reputation to post in our RPG general chatroom. Feel free to hop in there if you ever have a question or just want to hang out and talk about RPGs or other random topics. :) — Rubiksmoose ♦ Jul 19 '19 at 19:15

Seems like a good way to advertise the chat room (and maybe get the more subjective questions asked here instead of on main... maybe...)

Himitsu_no_Yami

I agree

AncientSwordRage

I like it

7:27 PM

@DavidCoffron I think there was somewhere listing pre-formatted comments; that sounds like a great addition

@DavidCoffron I'm glad you liked it! I haven't done it in a long while I think, but I do remember getting some positive responses to it in the form of people joining chat.

So... I should get back on leaving them :)

Note I specifically link to this chatroom though instead of using the [chat] link because I find that the list of site chats is pretty confusing, even to experienced users. I'd rather they just end up here :)

This: "Pre-made comments: A resource-gathering & workshopping thread"

@Rubiksmoose I ended typing in the wrong room this morning lol

@Rubiksmoose I remember when I accidentally found the general chat thing for the first time and I spent several minutes just trying to figure out how to work it

@Medix2 Me too!

I'm pretty sure I actually tried several times but had no idea where I was supposed to go...

IIRC I was trying to get my question reopened.

7:32 PM

@Medix2 there's also the potential issue of reviewing monster stat blocks and seeing if there is anything in there.

@NautArch Yes but any monster feature that ends because of a given condition will explicitly say so in its description, at least every one I found did (I mean, where else would you learn that)

@NautArch I added a comment asking for that clarification :)

@Medix2 so does concentration :)

@NautArch I knew you'd say that XD

Sidenote, I wish linking to the sidebar on hiding didn't require linking to "Initiative" and linking to the sidebar on object interactions didn't require linking to "Being Prone"... Seems like a weird decision

Probably something about staying true to the books, even though they have different layout considerations

7:45 PM

@Medix2 But yeah, that's kind of my point. THere really isn't a question here. Just a realization.

The problem they're facing is that they don't know if there are other rules/interactions of the given type that they don't know of, right?

@NautArch I see where you're coming from. I also think my answer shows that even the initial question was bounded enough; I did state my metric at the start though (ignoring race/class features)

@Someone_Evil exactly

@Someone_Evil And I think the issue is in classifying "the given type" since it's... hard to pin

@Medix2 And initially, it was for all conditions. THey've narrowed to incapacitated, but it's still weird...

7:49 PM

It's sort of a read-the-book to me, except instead of you should read the obvious section, you'd need to scour the entire rules section. I still wouldn't call it a high quality question, but it seems valid

@NautArch I'm debating just leaving a comment "Is my answer the sort of thing you're looking for?"

@Someone_Evil Where all possible instances seems awfully broad. But we disagree, and that's okay.

@Medix2 It's also kinda bad for you because your answer is mainly invalidated with the narrowing to incapacitated.

Isn't pretty much "cares about the incapacitated condition"?

@NautArch I can always go above and beyond anyways XD

btw, is there a reason you didn't use indenting on those lists, @Medix2?

7:54 PM

@Someone_Evil I didn't? They look indented to me

Just purely out of curiosity, what about effects like "having to move away from monster/caster/etc". But being incapacitated prevents you from doing so because of movement loss. Does that count? Or is it similar to not needing to list "Attacks"

@NautArch Oh fiddlesticks... I could lump those into "and things prevented by the things that the conditions cause" but... those feel more obvious which... not a great metric

That seems obvious from the condition making it unable to move, but maybe that's just me?

@Medix2 This is what i'm talking about. There are lots of potential things in the rules.

yall makin my brain hurt.

7:56 PM

@Someone_Evil Yeah, I dunno. But that goes back to my point about the question.

The fact that we don't know how to answer it suggests something.

@Medix2 ANd isn't crawling in the movement section (at half speed or difficult terrain or something?)

@Medix2 As in making the numbered ones for each condition a further indent than the bullet. Your source isn't doing that, but are you using any userscripts?

@NautArch Yep:

Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling

@Someone_Evil Oh oh, hmm I thought I had done something... guess I undid it somewhere too. Probably gonna wait on a reopening or something before editing my question more

lumped in with the other half-movements

@NautArch Yeah I link to it in my answer

7:59 PM

@Medix2 Oh, I see. It's that the condition doesn't restate how that works.

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