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6:00 PM
@fbueckert great, but I still don't know what Sonic game, so I have to ask if I want to know
@DavidB And provides the searcher with enough context to find out exactly WHICH Sonic game it is.
Still, why do you care which sonic game it is?
@fbueckert oh? which?
@RonanForman to learn more about it?
cause it's a cool sonic game with snow! I'd like to play it
6:01 PM
@DavidB Not a freaking clue, as I haven't played that one. But I suspect I can find out in roughly five minutes.
@RonanForman you can't find more information about a game unless you know what game it is
@fbueckert that's because you are an expert ITG answerer. I am not
@DavidB Heh. No, I'm not.
The Google-fu is strong with me.
I find it hard to believe that you'd want to play a game based on that screenshot.
And I have a freakishly good memory.
6:02 PM
@DavidB It's Sonic: HD Tour according to IGN.com, which was found through Tineye.
my point is - is it useful to ask such a question on this site? It seems to meet the criteria of @LessPop_MoreFizz
@Fluttershy I had no idea there was such a site.
@Fluttershy that's actually a good point. If a screenshot is on the internet somewhere, the question might just be a dupe of that site
@fbueckert Such a site as TinEye?
@fbueckert google does it too. Just drag and drop an image into the image search bar
6:04 PM
@Fluttershy Yeah
I have learned my requisite new thing of the day.
@Fluttershy you win 1 internets
@fbueckert This is like not knowing what Minecraft is. >_>
@Fluttershy I've never had a use for things like that.
Like I said, I have a freakishly good memory.
@fbueckert Oh. Well... Yeah. Google does it too. =P
If I see a screenshot, it takes less time for the brain to spit out the answer if I've played it before.
Otherwise, it'll probably be named somewhere on the page I'm looking at.
6:06 PM
@murgatroid99 wow I did not know that worked
that is amazing
@pixel also, this is pretty awesome: chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/…
The Google Goggles app is also pretty good/scary for that as well
@pixel Neocron 2.
@Fluttershy i knew this
is it sad that after finding out google did real time image recognition my first test was to drag+drop pictures of my ex boyfriends?
@murgatroid99 That provides another point. There are countless tools available to users to provide this exact service. If we allow this, it will just be one of us who runs the tool, instead of the person asking.
6:08 PM
@fbueckert I agree, and I think that this may be the first actually good point against these types of questions
I think a better response is to point them at the tools instead. Provide user education. Teach a man to fish and all that.
Yes I agree a "let me Google that for you"-link if some sort might Do the Trick.
@murgatroid99 @fbueckert those tools identify screenshots of the secret world as dominion
@pixel can you give an example screenshot?
@PatrickStalder lmgtfy is highly discouraged
Q: Ban lmgtfy (let me google that for you) links

John NolanI've just asked a question on Stack Overflow which was a prime candidate for googling. I admit it was a poor question and with a little bit of research I would have found the answer. What annoyed me was someone in the comments put a let me google that for you link. It got right up my nose. I fin...

6:15 PM
@pixel In cases like this, I would argue that the reason the screenshot is mis-identified is because the game is still VERY new. And in cases like that, it's going to be extremely rare to find a screenshot of a new game that's not going, "Check out this new game, X! Look how cool it is!"
@murgatroid99 ok i did Not know that.
@fbueckert I would argue because the colour palette is very similar to the other game
@fbueckert there are loads of TSW screenshots up
@pixel did you take that screenshot? It's kind of tough to take a screenshot yourself and still not know what game it is
@pixel And how many of them don't provide identification?
I was testing the system
6:16 PM
@pixel It doesn't analyse the picture, it looks for where it was posted elsewhere.
I'm genuinely curious to see how often someone posts screenshots of a new game and doesn't tell anyone what it is.
Q: What if asker accepts a question that has an incorrect answer?

wraith808I have found conflicting reports of how often Paralysis procs in Skyrim as an enchantment, so figured to ask it here. I did a search first, and found this question: What is the chance of paralysis on an enchanted weapon? However, there is no reference to where this answer came from, and indeed...

@pixel but the point is that people won't ask what game is in a screenshot that does not already exist on the internet
@RonanForman are you sure about that? Every picture I've uploaded has returned pictures of similar hues and colour palette
@pixel it looks for the exact picture, then for similar ones
6:20 PM
system isn't infallible
@pixel Have you tried with a picture you didn't take?
that is a pointless exercise
googling for a picture to google is just insane
the internet might crash if I do that
Now awaiting your downvotes!
A: Revisiting the Identify-this-game ban

SternoOpening the floodgates? I don't buy it I feel that the argument of "If we ever allow anything even remotely approaching a question that asks for identification of a game, we're going to open the floodgates and will have to start closing thousands of questions and argue with people in meta all da...

@pixel but asking what game is in a screenshot that you took is equally pointless
@pixel Then how can you say the system is fallible if you haven't tested it?
6:22 PM
@RonanForman I am going to be a complete bitch now, and screenshot something out of a TV show just to disprove you
@pixel Actually, I think that would be one of the main applications of this exception. :P
@pixel googling for a picture to google is exactly how I found that thread
Even so, it's still too localised.
@RonanForman wait, what is too localized?
Ok I know you guys are going to really struggle to get over the obvious
But take the picture from the Breaking Bad question
and ignore the first result
(as the first result is us)
6:25 PM
@murgatroid99 ITG questions, it's why they were closed in the first place.
@RonanForman no, it's not
The method you're pushing as the saviour does not detect the game as RAGE
Don't hate me for the irony of using something that obvious to disprove you though
@pixel as @fbueckert said about 30 seconds ago, that is one of the only useful exceptions to this technique
@murgatroid99 Who does it apply to other than the asker?
@RonanForman that breaking bad question could have a large number of people wondering what the game is
6:27 PM
he said nothing about technique, he said grabbing a screenshot from a video would be one of the main applications of this
@pixel "main applications of this exception"
but there are exceptions
thus the system isn't infallible
which is all I was asked to prove
@pixel OK, we all agree that there are exceptions, but screenshots of video games, which is what the original question proposed, is not one of them
@pixel I think you're misinterpreting what I said.
@fbueckert like every other time
6:30 PM
I have lost the conversation... are we talking exceptions to the ITG ban, or exceptions to capabilites of image identification systems
@pixel You're more pedantic than a programmer. :P Now I know how annoying I can be to other people. :P
@DavidB yes
@pixel I love that book
I'm exactly as pedantic as a programmer, yet I feel outmatched in this room
6:31 PM
Pedantic is my middle name
well, one of them
@pixel did you know that anyone can see the edit history of any chat post?
I think one of the only exceptions I would agree to would be screenshots from TV shows, specifically because it would be extremely hard to identify that without expert knowledge.
@pixel You know that doesn't work, you've got to delete it if you don't want people knowing what you said.
@murgatroid99 yes
the point is, by naming it to top secret, most of you looked
@pixel I had already read what you said. I just wasn't sure if you knew that we still could
6:32 PM
Everything else can be resolved with a simple Google Image search, or Tineye.
What about just googling for the answer anyway? breaking bad video game jesse
I just like people pinging me
@RonanForman you're right, that took about 3 seconds on Google
@Fluttershy Which points out the game wasn't even out yet.
Which means the question would've been off topic if it had been asked when the episode came out. :P
6:34 PM
Not really, it didn't involve any speculation
I find the irony of it amusing.
@pixel It would have, had it been asked when the episode first aired.
@fbueckert no, it wasn't speculative. It was the screenshot from a particular game
2v2, pick your side, speculation or not?
@Fluttershy when was the episode aired?
@pixel August 2011. "If you watched "Problem Dog" this past Sunday night, you saw Jesse playing a video game called RAGE® in the episode's opening scene. In reality though, you can't play RAGE® yet. The highly-anticipated first person shooter from Bethesda Softworks and id Software doesn't hit stores until Tue., Oct. 4, available for PS3, Xbox 360 and PC."
6:36 PM
let me just see when the game was annouced
@Fluttershy but it was RAGE. That part wasn't speculation
because if you disagree with questions about games that aren't out yet but have been announced a large portion of questions on this site are off topic
@pixel example?
@pixel Doesn't matter when it was announced. We don't handle questions about future releases. If the game isn't readily available to the public, we don't allow them.
was officially announced on August 2, 2007
I think 4 years is sufficent
6:37 PM
@pixel Cool. But it wasn't released yet. Therefore, off-topic here. If it had been asked when the episode first aired.
Does it state in the FAQ does it say future releases are off topic?
Oh and
@DavidB have people been playing that game?
It hasn't been released
through "pre-order" beta windows
6:38 PM
@Fluttershy clearly stated its not publicly available
it's only privately available to a select few
@pixel Our handling of open betas is finicky. believe me, I've tried arguing the point.
inb4 backtracking
dammit, I wasn't in before it
it's publicly available during beta windows if you pre-order. so that's a special case
@pixel Also, the FAQ states that "Speculation of the future of the industry and of upcoming releases" are off-topic.
@Fluttershy but what if the question is not speculative?
6:39 PM
@Fluttershy Its not speculation, that has already been established
@Fluttershy that game had been announced = not speculation
@Fluttershy "that game was RAGE" was a fact, even before the game was released
I don't even know why we're arguing this right now. It's fucking pointless. The question would have been closed had it been asked when the episode first aired, prior to the game's release.
well, technically it is specualation that the game will launch, and launch under that name. but the odds were really good at that point
it was closed today, right? :)
6:41 PM
Since it wasn't asked prior to the game's release, it's still open. Even though it shouldn't be because it's a god-damn REQUEST FOR GAME IDENTIFICATION.
oh, I stand corrected
Yes that is Joss Whedon as an action lead in a story told by a kid :D
@DavidB different reasons though
@Fluttershy the only point that you've made that sticks is ITG being off topic. It wasn't speculation, thus isn't against the linked point you made from the FAQ
and I can't help but think that you're overlooking the obviousness of that fact just because of some hatred you have towards ITG
@pixel I don't really know how I can be much clearer... We don't handle future releases unless they are in an open beta, or are otherwise readily available.
@Fluttershy where in the FAQ does it state that
6:44 PM
Personally, I wonder how we could've authoritatively identified that, had it been asked then, before the game was released.
@murgatroid99 That's sad; there are some cases where its a very good reply imho - why would we want to encourage trivial questions?
Last I checked, it's sort of hard to be experts at something that's not out, privately or not.
@Alok You can discourage trivial questions without being a dick
@pixel "•Speculation of the future of the industry and of upcoming releases" from the faq
@fbueckert you don't think 'gaming enthusiasts' would follow the next generation release from id software?
@DavidB it wasn't speculation, find me the bit in the FAQ that states future releases can't have questions
6:45 PM
@pixel It's hard to tell now, but at the time, I don't think we could have conclusively identified it.
...."and of upcoming releases"...
Short of someone from id coming out and saying, "Yeah, that's our new game."
@AshleyNunn its a full sentence, speculation still applies after the 'and'
@DavidB Its a beta, features may change bla bla - where does it state we only allow public betas while banning all other future game discussion?
6:46 PM
@AshleyNunn "•Speculation ... of upcoming releases"
@fbueckert that's a good point
@AshleyNunn that line states: "Speculation of: (a) future of the games industry, (b) upcoming releases"
Therefore there is nothing in the FAQ that makes that question off topic
Okay I have an idea, we let them be on topic, because it really makes no difference seeing as there are no questions that fall under the category that can't be closed for being too trivial and easily googlable.
6:47 PM
yes, gotta get up on meta
And with that, I'm done with The Bridge until this shit is sorted. I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore, and further discussion is going to result in a request for account deletion from me. Someone ping me on Steam when this is over.
@Fluttershy Will do.
@murgatroid99 I tend to just ignore them - but if someone asked stuff like 'Who is the publisher of DOOM?' and they got an lmgtfy link, I wouldn't feel bad for them at all
lol threatening me with account deletion
@Alok do you not get the part about "don't be a jerk"? Did you read the top pinned link in this chat room?
6:49 PM
@Alok If an established user asked that, I'd give them a metaphrical smack upside the head.
A new user, though, I'd try to be nice about it. "Hey, dude. I plugged your question into google, and it came up with X. Does that help?"
@DavidB 'Speculation of ... upcoming releases' should be different from concrete questions about them, like say specific questions on how things work even with a closed beta
@pixel lets all abide by the "dont be a jerk" rule, hmmm?
@pixel I think he was referring to HIS account.
@AshleyNunn Sorry, I just got threatened by an established user on account that I asked for solid evidence from the FAQ and wasn't given it.
@fbueckert Aye.
6:50 PM
....he wasnt threatening you.
I guess you're a mind reader now as well
@pixel Try to take things just a little less personally, please. Not everything is automatically referring to you.
Hold, it, cool down
Can anybody remember the term that @LessPop_MoreFizz used to define what the FAQ is?
6:51 PM
@pixel we saw Powerlord do it, so it's not that far-fetched
Because it solidly ruled what the FAQ means
was a very good description
also Arda, sort of
@pixel For the record - we never take deletion requests from people other than the owner
@GraceNote understood
So it makes it immature rather than a threat
6:53 PM
Having some sort of thing where people can request other people's accounts to be outright deleted is inane - I'm pretty sure the others are correct in their observation that Fluttershy is considering self-deletion out of exhaustion with this.
@pixel I think he was talking about requesting deletion of his own account.
Immature? @pixel are you intentionally being rude?
@GraceNote Yes, this is the correct assertion.
I'm not being intentionally rude, no
You are being rather disrespectful, imho
6:55 PM
@GraceNote Which would be a crying shame, really. I respect and value @Fluttershy's opinions.
Let's backpedal a bit - can someone give me a link to where this all starts (for today's session, at least?)
@murgatroid99 I can't read the linked 'What SO is not' thread as I'm not 10k hehe. But I do expect users to have some consideration towards a community too; there are blindingly obvious questions that I would never ask even on gamefaqs, ask.yahoo or generally anywhere at all - and if I did so by mistake, I would not feel bad for it being pointed out. That said, I do understand the intent of that post; and personally I just ignore the bad questions/answers if I can't leave helpful comments
@GraceNote Uh, the rudeness? Or the discussion about ITG?
(and mods invade)
@AshleyNunn not as disrespectful as making up rules based on thin air, not backed up by the FAQ on the grounds that I don't like that particular type of question
6:56 PM
@GraceNote I hope it's not chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5473934#5473934 you're talking about
@Kortuk hides :P
@fbueckert The earlier point of both, probably
@fbueckert Yeah, agree with this. Rep > 200 and still asking BS questions? lmgtfy ftw :P
@GraceNote I think around here (for a long conversation): chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5474541#5474541
6:56 PM
@Fluttershy It is absolutely ridiculous to be a slave to a rule in a situation like this. "Oh, hi! I know the game is Rage, but now that we've identified that as the answer, this question must be closed for 3 months until the game's release"
Common sense needs to apply. Let's not be a slave to rules and put ourselves into stupid situations.
@Sterno there isn't even a rule
Why am I being shot at?
9 mins ago, by Fluttershy
And with that, I'm done with The Bridge until this shit is sorted. I don't have the patience to deal with it anymore, and further discussion is going to result in a request for account deletion from me. Someone ping me on Steam when this is over.
@GraceNote Somewhere around here, I think: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/5476381#5476381
Not 100% on that.
It wasn't speculation, therefore it is exempt from that part of the FAQ
6:57 PM
@pixel he did link to meta questions about new games that kind of showed that there is a rule
@Wipqozn Because you're @Wipqozn. You need a reason?
Since when does meta overrule FAQ?
@fbueckert I suppose.
@pixel since always
@murgatroid99 I missed that message, but at the same time, if Bridge chat makes someone delete their account, I won't miss them
6:58 PM
@pixel Not everything can land in the FAQ. Meta is intended to supplement it.
@pixel meta is like expanded faq
@Sterno +1 This
So... I get the feeling that I just missed a huge shit storm.
@Sterno I linked for the part about him going away for now
meta is like rules changed based on the direction of the wind
6:58 PM
@Wipqozn yep
@Wipqozn Follow linky above.
@murgatroid99 Yeah, I'd been catching up on back chat and hadn't read all the way to that part, or I probably wouldn't have responded to him. At the same time, I don't plan on deleting my message now
So I take it the tl;dr is ITG?
@Wipqozn yeah pretty much
my point wasn't about ITG, I feel their points were
@Wipqozn yeah. AND IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT
6:59 PM
@pixel Always? meta = popularity contest; voting on questions = popularity contest. They gel together far better than an incomplete outline does :)
(seriously, we need to get that in the FAQ)

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