OT Kali

@EliahKagan The OP of that question is continuing to post increasingly abusive comments directed at a specific user. The comments are quickly removed by flags (presumably without moderator action). As a result, when one glances at the question, abusive comments are often not present. I fear this creates the impression that the question should be salvaged. It should not be salvaged. It should be deleted as rude/abusive.

[ Natty | Sentinel ] lubuntu Making fcitx works under LUbuntu By: michelle2014 4.5;

@EliahKagan sorry :(

No problem!

@EliahKagan phew now nobody else ever has to read that O.o

thanks!

@EliahKagan that is odd... done hopes nobody shouts at me about it

Oh, I could've done it; I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a specific reason not to. Sorry to push off extra work to you.

I think it should be possible to write a SEDE query to find meta posts whose first revision didn't have a required tag.

That should reveal how common this is.

There's this query. But that's showing just questions that didn't have one of those tags at the time SEDE was last updated. The phenomenon may be far more common than it would suggest.

That query shows the same thing (for when SEDE was last updated) as this search (from this post by Adam Lear) shows.

@EliahKagan no no that was not even work, 2 seconds of editing :)

:)

@EliahKagan why does it only show such recent posts?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I assume those are the only questions on our meta that didn't have any of the required meta tags. I think most questions on meta that don't have required meta tags probably get edited to include at least one of them.

oh sorry, I misunderstood your message

hmm I don't know how to look only at the first revision

this comment looks very useful

OT no-repro, OP reinstalled Ubuntu. Hey Tarun thanks, but i reinstalled ubuntu.

@Zanna That just takes me to the post, so I assume the comment has been deleted.

Trello board | guidelines for it | feedback query | off-topic | historical

dupe

@EliahKagan ugh that's my bad, I must have not copied the link

this is the comment I meant to link to ^

sorry about that

OT no-repro, Suddenly it works again .... After some reboots und updates it's there again. Confusing ....

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Does the shortcut Ctrl-Alt-F... turn off the GUI or is it still running in the background? by KoreanischeKosmetik on askubuntu.com

dupe

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 20.04 After upgrading to ubuntu 20.04 Lockscreen not working By: ShanF 3.5;

@Natty tp

no repro

[ Natty | Sentinel ] keyboard Dell Laptop Inspiron 13 with Ubuntu 20,04 TouchPad and keyboard not working after lid closed By: Trevor Sparks 3.5;

@Natty tp

[ Natty | Sentinel ] usb How to Create a Full Install of Ubuntu 20.04 to USB Device Step by Step By: Stromwerk 3.5;

@Natty tp

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 18.04 Ubuntu 18.04 - jupyter notebook - Error executing Jupyter command 'notebook': [Errno 2] No such file or directory By: Shabaz Belim 4.0;

@Natty fp

OT 19.04

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 16.04 Ubuntu 16.04 : How to get display drivers for S3 UniChrome Pro By: Nigel Wood 4.5;

@Natty tp

@Natty tp

OT Kali

[ Natty | Sentinel ] usb How to Create a Full Install of Ubuntu 20.04 to USB Device Step by Step By: An Ant 3.5;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] apt Zoom fails to launch, results in a core dump and memory corruption exit code (134) By: Nasah 3.5;

@Kulfy the serious thought behind my joking around was that, after spending some time pursuing the goal of increasing the answered rate, I came to the conclusion that increasing the answered rate is the wrong goal

the answered rate is probably a useful indicator of something

but it's a very rough indicator...

if there was a magic site usefulness indicator, it might take answered rate into account, but I think it would have to take into account some other things

oh no I'm rambling

but what I want to say is, it's very possible to increase the answered rate by doing things that are very likely to make the site less useful instead of more useful, like, closing or deleting all the unanswered questions

or, upvoting all the unaccepted zero score answers to questions that have only such answers without evaluating whether those answers are good

those things are, I would argue, easier to do than things that increase the answered rate while actually improving the site's usefulness like, posting more good answers

so, I realised that I should only care about the answered rate insofar as it indicated the site's usefulness

and the goal I should pursue is increasing the site's usefulness

I do definitely think that deleting useless things contributes to that, of course :)

hmmm maybe this ramble of mine is terribly discouraging and that would be terrible

but, if you are interested, the Trello project we were doing is all about "fixing" unanswered questions. I would like to resume it. The reason we use Trello is to do a proper job, so that things get more useful and not just less unanswered

Idk how easy it would be to resume that project though.

Well I think lower answered rate may indicate that we actually have many unclear abandoned questions and some very good question with good answers but no upvote. To improve that we can use SEDE to at least delete unclear questions, close dupe ones, upvote the already existing answers which are very good and if possible, may try to post an answer.

There is nothing wrong in having lower answered rate, but at the same time it may also indicate that some users who have very basic questions might be going with empty pockets which I think, somewhat affects the usefulness of the site.

I was working on it for a long time. Now I would have to do a lot of it differently

Regrading the Trello project, I'm not sure how it really works.

no worries. I am not really ready to resume it yet anyway, though I would get ready if anyone else wanted to get started

@Kulfy it's pretty much doing those things you just mentioned, using a query that finds self-answered questions where the answer has zero score

@Zanna I can't commit but I'll try to contribute as much as I can.

@Zanna Then it's worth resuming :)

I'm just trying to get rid of the images tag, then I will take a look at the Trello board...

[ Natty | Sentinel ] mkdir mkdir variable Dont work By: Prakhar 3.5;

@Zanna I'm thinking of browsing through all support questions.

nice

(unrelated) dupe

hmm is it

seems to be. I'm not sure why I can't CV it. Maybe I voted to close it in the past.

you did :D

From Stephen's answer: 14.04 (Trusty) just reached EOL, and will eventually be migrated; there’s no set calendar for such migrations, the only guarantee is that it happens after EOL.

And from Thomas' answer: There is no set time for when they move the data from the archives to the old-releases page, but they do eventually get around to it.

seems both implies same thing.

@Zanna Do you permissions to see which close reason I chose? :)

you voted EOL

This question was closed as OT, but I think that it should be reopened.

Indeed.

why did it get closed? :/

I have no idea!

oh the picture

@user3140225 Voted to reopen. There was no good reason for it to be closed.

@Zanna And then retracted just after 1 minute. :sighs:

@karel yeah

@karel Thanks

@Kulfy that's annoying

Voted to reopen. Still needs 2 more votes.

@Zanna Hmm why?

@Kulfy refresh the page

:D

@Kulfy I mean annoying for you that you can't vote again because of a previous close vote you retracted

@Kulfy It's open now

@Zanna Yeah that's why one VMware question is still open which was wrongly closed as the dupe of the merged one :/

Can mods vote to close questions again?

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1253662/816190

@Kulfy Post already reported

@Natty tp

@Kulfy I would be really interested to find that out... was thinking about those questions too, but not sure that at least part of our inability to close them wasn't due to people thinking they should not be closed

there was no positive evidence for that - not a single Leave Open vote

@Kulfy I remember that question being open after I had already close voted it, but when I tried to close vote it again I couldn't do it because I had already closed voted it too recently so it fell through the cracks.

@karel Well yes. You, me, Zanna and pomsky already have voted to close it.

@Kulfy yes, I think you're right that it's a dupe - Thomas' answer explains the reason as the question asks.

Fortunately, it now has 4 votes.

@Kulfy you are awesome

@Kulfy seems so

@Zanna Great. At last all VMware questions are now closed against correct dupe target.

So I think status-completed for this

@Kulfy :)

@Kulfy Hahaha!! Thank you for this!

I died with the one that terdon helped a user delete their home!

(unrelated) This is huge :O

is this question answerable? Seems pretty unclear with zero hardware info

@user3140225 XD

I think this is worth undeleting.

Users switching from Windows to Ubuntu may not be aware of difference between cd.. and cd ..

reopening may not make sense but I think undeleting would.

@Zanna It could be. From what I've seen, problems like this is can happen more often due to a problem with alsa than hardware.

@user3140225 so did I... :(

@Kulfy that was deleted automatically when the user account was deleted

annoyingly, that causes all the person's negatively scored posts to be automagically deleted

@user3140225 so, it should be left open? Or do we need to request some information?

@Zanna I don't think that should happen to questions that have answers!

at least the system could throw them into the LQP queue so humans actually look at them

@Zanna Still it had a score of 4 which is not a negative number.

If they're negatively scored, humans have already looked at them.

@Kulfy oh

have to agree with you there XD

@Zanna That doesn't happen, normally. If an account is deleted, their posts remain. They're removed only if the account was destroyed which is what we do to spammers and other abusive users.

oh

I see

I think mods can see why account was deleted. Were they a spammer/abusive user?

it says that the user was destroyed

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 14.04 Pepper flash plugin is installed but doesn't work on chromium By: Adnan Shahriar 3.5;

That's what timeline shows.

@Natty tp vlq

@Kulfy that's where I'm looking

I thought you were using the powers :P

@Zanna I wouldn't close it. Hardware info would be good. In fact, I added a comment requesting it.

@Zanna Ah, there you go then.

@Kulfy the timeline has more stuff

than it used to

on Monday

@terdon yes, thanks for explaining!

not a dupe

@Zanna Mod tools?

@Kulfy whaat why is that VLQ

Chromium wasn't a snap package then IIRC. Is it salvageable through editing?

it's ok to post an updated answer to an old question, isn't it?

omg I need to do housework D:

@Zanna Yeah but seems more like a link only answer.

I haven't flagged it and neither downvoted.

yes it does seem almost a link only answer

seems unclear or broad. "my ubuntu doesn't work after an update" seems very much vague

I should have improved this edit and add the [2] link from Wayback Machine. The edit needs at least one more review.

P.S.: I generally approve/improve such edits to give the editor the benefit of finding a dead link and bring it to reviewers' notice.

@Kulfy Did that for you :)

Thanks.

@user3140225 thanks!

→ 37 messages moved to Island of castaway thoughts

[ Natty | Sentinel ] keyboard Keyboard and tracking not working on Ubuntu 20.04 By: Joshua May 4.0;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] nvidia Has anyone updated 20.04 with new kernel 5.4.0-39 yesterday resulting in nvidia driver problems? By: Em Vo 3.5;

@Kulfy That is a problem with WSL not Ubuntu. He should have asked that in MS forum. He didn't even install Ubuntu. The problem was that he hasn't turned the optional feature on

@Feeds Wait!!! What?

@Kulfy :)

Well, if you don't want, I can undo it. :(

Congradulations @Kulfy Even though the community didn't (yet), mods accept you as an equal

@SasukeUchiha If the question is about Ubuntu (which is supported by Canonical) anywhere be it Raspberry Pi or even Windows, it is on-topic. For example, see these questions: askubuntu.com/q/966184/816190, askubuntu.com/q/993225/816190 and askubuntu.com/q/1177729/816190. FYR: See this meta question.

@jokerdino Oh well being a room owner would now let me see deleted messages :P

@SasukeUchiha Well everyone is moderator here. 10k tools are even known as mod tools. :)

@Kulfy Except me :(

@Kulfy that's the sad part

Ask Ubuntu is moderated by you

@SasukeUchiha Hmm why not? You have access to review queues, you can create new tags, suggest edits, view close votes, cast on your own questions.

@jokerdino I guess you trust me :)

@Kulfy Close votes... Not yet i think

@Kulfy I trust you

to do the right thing

@SasukeUchiha askubuntu.com/help/privileges

@jokerdino :)

@Kulfy Ah I didn't see the in your own question part. Thanks

@Kulfy I do try to do my best. Which is more or less get through 40 reviews though that is hard with not much new questions to old answers

Usually get 20 in first posts though

First posts are sometime tough.

@Kulfy Agreed.

@Kulfy Understood. Thanks. I assumed that it was off topic as it would have happened to anything he tried to install as the problem was with WSL

Ah sorry. I meant Late answers up there. I can't edit for some reason!

Just open a new incognito window and search for The WSL optional component is not enabled. Please enable it and try again., Win's question is the top search result.

@Natty How do you make natty do this?

@Natty why

@Kulfy The NAA Value is 1.5. The explanation for the filters is:

0.5 - Low Length
1.0 - Low Rep

Ah OK.

@Kulfy Thats because it is the same as the title

If you search something like can't install linux in wsl MS docs come first

And title is same as the error message. In my experience people google error messages only. And you can have a look at previous titles :)

@SasukeUchiha And 4th one is from AU

Yes I agree with you. Like I said above, I understand it and will keep that in mind. Thanks as always @Kulfy

On a side note, if you're convinced that it was an on-topic question, you may consider deleting your comment.

I will now

@Kulfy For sake of clarity, I mentioned "supported by Canonical" because people made some hacks to install Ubuntu on Termux and Chromebook (known as Chrubuntu) and since they both aren't backed by Canonical, they are off-topic here.

Okay... I failed this audit because I tried to add a comment that it was a dupe because I had seen it before. It turns out I have seen the same question but it was put in an audit as a first post

@Kulfy Noted

@SasukeUchiha Failing 1-2 audit is fine. But if you're failing too often and making lot of mistakes in the queues, then it is a matter of serious concern.

@Kulfy That fail is not my fault unless if you consider it my fault for knowing that already existed.

@Kulfy Does the system automatically bar me from reviews. I don't fail normally btw

@SasukeUchiha haha similar happened to me - I tried to close a post as a duplicate of itself, I was like "I'm sure I remember seeing this question..." clicked the close button, audit failed

@SasukeUchiha I didn't target you neither I saw the question. There have been multiple cases where people failed audit unknowingly. You can browse Ask Ubuntu Meta to see similar cases.

I had seen it - it was the exact post I remembered seeing

@SasukeUchiha Yes if you fail too often. When I was new to review queues, I was banned for ~3 months -_- But it's been around 1.5 years when I got banned

@Zanna The same audit? I tried to flag as dupe but couldn't find the post. Sould have figured it was an audit then I suppose

@Kulfy I DO NOT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN. OMG

I don't think this one needs re-opening. I have added a second target addressing OP's issues completely (as much as achievable by now).

I also opened the user profile and he had the same post with 40 or so upvotes so I assumed that he had reposted it in hope of milking some more upvotes. Well should have paid more attention and noticed that he didn't have a second post in the profile

not a dupe. Certainly not of the linked ones

@pomsky also this comment is not needed.

not OT

@pomsky Unless I'm missing something due to some deleted comments, this claim is not true in general.

All the standard and older features of Dash to Dock (including the ones OP mentioned in the question) are also available in Ubuntu Dock, just they're not accessible using the Settings app. They can easily be triggered using dconf Editor or gesttings/dconf. Only recently added features of Dash to Dock may not be available in Ubuntu Dock.

@SasukeUchiha WSL is explicitly on topic

@Kulfy The question was originally tagged with 14.04 but the editor changed to 16.04 without any input from OP. Should the edit be rolled back?

@SasukeUchiha I'm lucky if I can do 1 per day of those

@Kulfy Looks like N0rbert changed the tag from an EOL to 16.04. Even if it wasn't, it should have still been on topic though the OP should probably add more details...

@Kulfy As it is now, N0bert's comment makes no sense

@Zanna Well that is the only major review queue I have

@SasukeUchiha no, it wouldn't be the same audit, but similar situation. Sometimes audits are really confusing

@SasukeUchiha yeah but they are so hard

@Zanna I do tend to write relatively wrong comments in that queue explaining. After all, I still remember my confusion when I first joined and my posts were deleted. I don't want that to happen to others

@Zanna Understood

Any dual booter here remember what is the size the installer gives when installing alongside windows. I will check in a VM anyway

@SasukeUchiha If the question is about some software installation, it may be release specific since most of the PPAs now don't support 14.04. So answering EOL questions might be near to impossible.

@SasukeUchiha Already flagged as no longer needed.

@Natty tp

@Natty tp

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body (96): Which SIP-Client or SIP Phone is supported by Ubuntu 18.04.3 LTS or 19.10? by New2Ubuntu on askubuntu.com

@Kulfy The OP doesn't mention it is 14.04 though. It is only the tag. Anyway that is an interesting question that future readers may like. Many would like to know if such a thing exists I believe

I personally think the version tag should be removed so that it is relevant universally. But I am not very experienced and I know I talk too much. :(

@SasukeUchiha We, normally, assume people uses version tags to convey the release they are using.

@Kulfy That is true and therefore it should be off topic in that sense. But I am inclined to keep that open for some reason. What do you think?

@SasukeUchiha May be not. For example, see this question askubuntu.com/questions/1186999/…

@SasukeUchiha I have already voted to leave open and reluctant to take any action unless OP has something to say.

@Kulfy I agree with your decision

@Kulfy Uh was this intended for the talk too much part?

@SasukeUchiha If you want "Community's" opinion if it's relevant for questions and the site, feel free to post on Ask Ubuntu Meta

@SasukeUchiha Nope. It was for "the version tag should be removed so that it is relevant universally".

@Kulfy Sorry about the talk too much joke. I am at a loss here. There is a version tag there. Can you please explain. I think that is on topic because it says starting with 19.04 which means it applies for all following releases. Is that what you meant?

@sasuke this question is a pretty low quality one and very much unsuitable for the site. The answer is really not needed imo.

Also the links in the answer malfunction.

Better to just flag and move away.

Migrated to meta

@Kulfy Don't see the point either, OP asked for guidance for posting in Ubuntu Forums.

@SasukeUchiha In my interpretation, you meant version tags are irrelevant and should be removed from questions. Were you talking about that specific question or all the questions?

@pomsky Oh well. Just saw it in passing and copy pasted an AutoREviewComment. You are right though

@pomsky Well there were already 3 CV to migrate to meta. Even if I chose some other close reason, it would still be migrated to meta. I think.

@Kulfy I was talking about that specific question. I certainly do not want to remove version tags from all questions. That would lead to a whole lot of trouble

@EliahKagan But the meaning of EOL that is relevant to migration to the old-releases server is the actual official meaning of EOL. And 14.04 is not EOL. (It's End of Standard Support; it will become EOL in April 2022.)

@EliahKagan That is misleading. I think it should be explained in the flag description.

By that I mean the definition of EOL should be added

The issue is that we don't have a demonstrable consensus about what policy we should actually have anymore.

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

@EliahKagan That is concerning

@SasukeUchiha My bad. Sorry for the confusion.

Who is responsible and has the power for making the policies??

Everyone.

They're established by consensus on meta.

@Kulfy np. What is your opinion about that q

@EliahKagan And who should start the consensus?

consensus is usually not at the beginning.

@jokerdino ???

@EliahKagan But in case of non-LTS releases, End of Public Support=EOL. Canonical doesn't offer ESM for non-LTS releases.

I feel like I am talking about things I don't know so I will shut up now

@Kulfy Right, but the answer was specifically about 14.04 LTS.

@Kulfy I agree that their meaning changed over the time but for non-LTS releases they are still the same.

[ Natty | Sentinel ] software-installation Unable to Install Apps on Kubuntu By: Geezergeek 4.0;

@EliahKagan But the question was about 17.10 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@jokerdino :)

@SasukeUchiha it's a process. at the end, if the process succeeds, you have a consensus, which may change later

I think having a link to wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases in EOL flag description is needed

@SasukeUchiha If you're interested, I posted on meta some months ago. Got upvotes and opinions but still at the same position :(

@Kulfy Right, and actually I am not really correct in saying the answer is specifically about 14.04 LTS. The answer makes a substantial claim about 14.04 LTS, which is the part I'm taking about, but it also talks about other releases, including the one mentioned in the question.

> 14.04 (Trusty) just reached EOL, and will eventually be migrated; there’s no set calendar for such migrations, the only guarantee is that it happens after EOL.

@Zanna Like I said, I understood that I was talking about things I didn't know. I am still young both in age and in SE usage

@Kulfy Which q are we talking about?

that's not any kind of problem... I was just trying to respond to your "???"

It's easy to assume that most people would support the policy that we currently seem to be following, which is to close questions about releases that have reached End of Standard Support. But that very well might not be the case. IIRC, going by votes on meta posts, it looks like there may not be a consensus to close questions about unsupported releases at all, anymore.

The reason we have a policy that "EOL" releases are off-topic is that people who wanted that policy kept pushing for it, over and over again, until the tide turned in their favor. (Also, when the tide appeared to turn, I posted on meta to request that the new consensus be recognized. But I didn't have a decided opinion myself at the time. I still don't.)

Then we largely stopped talking about it and there is even the misconception that it is somehow imposed externally on Ask Ubuntu. For a significant portion of Ask Ubuntu's history, there was no such policy. I don't know what policy we should actually have.

@EliahKagan Ah. So maybe a comment on Stephen's answer would be helpful. (Stephen is a Debian developer and very much active on Unix & Linux. They may act asap and edit the answer.)

@Zanna I understand. Thanks

@Kulfy thanks

@Kulfy I agree. Do you know when the terminology changed? If it had not officially changed at the time that answer was posted, then this should be acknowledged in the comment to avoid creating further confusion. I believe it had changed by then, but I am not sure.

@SasukeUchiha The confusing thing about the specific phrase "community consensus" and, more broadly, the way we talk about consensus on meta, is that policy on Ask Ubuntu (and other Stack Exchange) sites is not actually determined by consensus, in the ordinary-language meaning of "consensus." We vote about what policies should be, and when a position has decisively more support than other positions, it is adopted as a policy. But that's not what "consensus" ordinarily means.

@EliahKagan Not really. But I posted the meta question when I first saw it.

I have posted comments on Stephen's answer.

@EliahKagan Really we are misusing the term "consensus" as well as misusing the term "end of life." But our misuse of the term "end of life" is easier to demonstrate objectively and is not deeply baked into the linguistic culture of AU, much less SE as a whole, so we can fix that. :)

@Kulfy Yeah. I had meant to post an answer there, but never did. I don't think the main question is whether to change the wording of the help center and close reasons. I think the main question is what policy we actually want to have, now that there is no specific status (at least for LTS releases) that corresponds directly to the old meaning of EOL.

@Kulfy Thanks!

There was an earlier discussion in this room of the "EOL" policy and its history, which I had meant to link to, to substantiate my claims above about the history. I'm looking for it now.

@EliahKagan If we still use EOL terminology, we have to consider releases under ESM as on-topic. I suggested to keep policies as it is and change the terminologies used in help center and close reasons.

(unrelated) Sometimes I feel I'm advertising my meta questions.

@Kulfy It is impossible to keep the policy as it is, because what EOL meant at the time the policy was created does not correspond to anything that currently exists. Right now, we're enforcing a policy that we assume is the natural outgrowth of that old policy, but that assumption may well be wrong. This is still better, though, than changing official wording about the policy without clear support for doing so.

There are also further problems. Some flavors are officially unsupported earlier, even in the same release. But there is no objective way to look at an existing installation of Ubuntu and tell what flavor it is. For example, I have a 16.04 LTS system that I installed from the minimal ISO. I selected the lubuntu-desktop task. Can I ask questions about that system on Ask Ubuntu today? How about a system that is a full desktop installation of Ubuntu with some LXDE-related packages installed?

There are more than two possible answers to those questions. (Does it relate to what packages are important to the question? How is someone who doesn't know the answer to their question supposed to know all the packages that are relevant to it?)

I've heard some very confident pronouncements about whether or not my 16.04 system is supported on Ask Ubuntu, but really, no one has any idea. I haven't managed to find anyone who can explain what it even means for a flavor consisting entirely of packages from Ubuntu's official repositories for an LTS release to be non-LTS. This whole situation is a mess.

And that's just one problem. There are others.

@EliahKagan Do we have any data where people confused EOL with End of public support + end of esm? If many users are being confused then it may be a matter of concern. Until then, I don't think there's a big problem.

@EliahKagan Indeed. "Flavors" having 3 year support is confusing.

[ Natty | Sentinel ] drivers NVIDIA driver is not detected in Ubuntu 20.04 LTS By: Gordon-Ubu-mate 3.5;

But I think the packages specific to flavor aren't maintained. For example, lubuntu-desktop. But the packages such as Evince which is also in main Ubuntu, are still maintained

Are you sure? Didn't we discuss this before and find a whole bunch of Lubuntu-specific packages that keep getting updates on Launchpad for releases where Lubuntu is supposedly unsupported?

@Kulfy that's ok, because you don't get any points for them

Though we have a meta question about Lubuntu 16.04 reaching EOL, but the answers and comments are just mess. I can't make any clear assumption.

@EliahKagan Nope. not with me.

Sorry, I must've misremembered. I'll search the chat to see what it is I am actually thinking of.

@Kulfy Yes. This is one of those confident takes I was talking about. :)

Canonical say Lubuntu reached EOL but still updates the packages in the archives which is being shared by Lubuntu as well as Ubuntu. So, what thing really got out of support?

@EliahKagan (I mean the comment specifically.)

@Kulfy Yeah, that's what I don't know. It's an interesting and important question, and also IMO a prerequisite for policymaking. Ordinarily I'd post a question--on the main site since the actual support status is about Ubuntu, not about Ask Ubuntu. Maybe I should do that. I just find the meta discussion very discouraging, regarding the prospects of it getting an accurate and well-sourced answer.

@Kulfy I'm not sure I understand the question.

@Natty tp

I'll try to summarise. IIRC Universe repositories are supported for 3 years and are maintained by community not by the Canonical itself. Flavors such as lubuntu are community driven which are officially recognised by Canonical. Because they are community driven, their specific packages are in Universe and will get out of support. However, the packages offered by Canonical itself will still be maintained for another 2 years.

So, what's our take on this? Did Lubuntu got out of support? Or just its "L" and "ubuntu" is still supported.

I don't think community support for universe packages of LTS releases is usually limited to 3 years.

@EliahKagan :(

Let me check if I can find some article to support my claim.

IIRC I read that somewhere but not sure where.

If it is, then people who use anything from universe should upgrade after 3 years. But that's a lot of people. And most people use LTS releases these days, ever since the support period for non-LTS releases was shortened. This sounds dramatic, but if universe packages in general don't get LTS support, we should stop encouraging people to use Ubuntu. That doesn't mean you're mistaken, but if that is true, then I think the "EOL" confusion arises from outside Ask Ubuntu and is unsolvable.

@Kulfy I found it. We have had this conversation before.

no repro?

Looks so to me. I've CV'd.

thanks :)

@EliahKagan I don't know if I found the the EOL discussion I was looking for, but there's one in which links to historical information appear. @SasukeUchiha

@EliahKagan I see. An year ago. Sorry for the confusion.

@EliahKagan lxpanel was last for 16.04 was updated in 2018 and Lubuntu 16.04 reached EOL in 2019.

Then also, I claimed Universe is maintained for 3 years.

(unrelated) Seems there can be a tag edit war. Still no version is better than changing version tags IMO.

@Kulfy No problem. The confusion is at least as much my fault. "find a whole bunch of Lubuntu-specific packages that keep getting updates" is something of a stretch, as a description of what we discussed.

@Kulfy ^^ Yes.

OTOH, Lubuntu 14.04 was only supported until April of 2017, right?

@EliahKagan Yes. lxpanel never got an update for 14.04. It was just released.

Right. But in August 2017, there was an update to lxterminal. It was provided for 16.04 and 14.04, but not 12.04.

I'm trying to remember where I read the Universe is supported for 3 years.

@EliahKagan Maybe they aren't considering strictly 3 years.

[ Natty | Sentinel ] 20.04 Trying to configure Wake On Lan with ethtool on Ubuntu 20.04 By: hkall 4.5;

The update was also pushed in security and AFAIK security is supported for 5 years.

@Natty tp

@Kulfy If it's only updates, but not security, that is supported only for 3 years for packages outside of main, then that's far less alarming. But I don't think it can speak to the question of what it means for a flavor to have a shorter support period, since there are many non-flavor-specific packages in universe. So that doesn't point to a sharp distinction between different flavors. (Also, receiving only security updates is basically fine.)

It occurs to me that it may be hard to find examples outside security even if there are some. My understanding is that most updates to packages in a stable release (whether LTS or non-LTS) are security updates, since it is much easier for a security bug satisfy the StableReleaseUpdates policy.

Is there any package which is in Universe and is updated after some time period? Netbeans? Evolution?

I'm going afk for now. Will continue tomorrow.

I'm not sure I understand the question. Looking outside packages that feel flavor-specific, it's easier to find packages in universe that receive updates well after three years have passed since the release. (Whether that's because packages that feel flavor-specific are less likely to be updated, or because there are simply fewer of them, I'm not sure.) For example, mplayer was updated in 14.04 in September 2018.

No problem -- ttyl.

@Zanna I wonder if there are other posts by that user that were also wrongly deleted when the account was strangely destroyed. Perhaps searching for user:256029 deleted:1 would reveal them. (That doesn't work for me, of course, since I'm not a moderator. With deleted:1, my results are as if I had not also written user:256029, and they show only my own deleted posts.)

@EliahKagan That's an awesome idea, but, it doesn't find anything. In fact it seems not to work for some reason, because if instead of deleted:1 I put is:q I still get nothing, although we know that there is something...

@Zanna See the TL for another approach that should work.

[ Natty | Sentinel ] partitioning Cannot increase Ubuntu partition with GParted. Maximum size By: Jack 4.0;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] nvidia CUDA error while installing, help to uninstall By: Kuba Wróblewski 4.5;

[ Natty | Sentinel ] drivers Bluetooth not working on Acer Aspire 6930 running Kubuntu 20.04 By: DaveB 3.5;

@Zanna I should've just suggested user:256029 by itself. But I guess that doesn't work either?

@Natty tp

@Natty tp

@EliahKagan (sorry, I missed this message yesterday) By "self-serving" I did not intend to insinuate "rep-farming". As I mentioned before the user in question often tends to VTC questions against (to say the least) far-fetched targets where they have posted answers.

Unfortunately, in many cases due to not-so-careful voting by subsequent reviewers or naïvety of the OP, the questions were closed incorrectly. Here are couple of examples I can provide right now without thinking hard which needed to be reopened:

first, second. The second one is a question titled "Xubuntu, combinations Ctrl+key don't work when I use Ctrl as hotkey for switching keyboard layout"; closed against one titled "18.04 ctrl+shift to change language" (about vanilla Ubuntu with GNOME 3)!! I cannot think of a single good reason to consider this as valid or useful target to begin with tbh.

In many other cases I suggested a better and actually useful question as the second target to compensate.

It seems as if this user thinks they have brought closure to various issues with one swing and nothing else requires to be added by anybody else (quite compatible with the repeated behaviour of protecting questions without any apparent reason after answering that question as we discussed before).

Maybe "self-serving" was a wrong choice of phrase, should've used "self-pleasing" or "self-satisfying".

I didn't think you meant rep-farming, I just thought it was interesting that the action that would most readily generate rep--and that would be, in some of the cases, correct--was being avoided in preference to an action that was wrong in all the cases that would generate less rep. And it could lead to more rep, if it causes people to vote on the target's answers. Though since the targets are wrong, it's somewhat likely to result in downvotes.

I think these closures may be the result of wrong beliefs about what would solve the problem, or wrong beliefs about how closely related two questions should be for them to be considered duplicates.

@pomsky Yes, that makes sense.

I think this post does qualify as an answer.

@Natty report askubuntu.com/a/1253807/22949

[ Natty | Sentinel ] Link to Post Low Length; No Code Block; One Line only; Low Rep; Self Answer; 0.5;

@Kulfy I'm surprised! o.O Why was this post deleted by the community-bot in the first place?

It was closed as a dupe, has multiple answers with positive scores!

^^ (cc @EliahKagan)

This happened because the user account was "destroyed" rather than "deleted." That's rare for accounts that have ever posted anything that should not be deleted, and it seems like it may have been a mistake. (Not necessarily to remove the account, but to destroy rather than delete it.)

See askubuntu.com/posts/432100/… in the post timeline.

@EliahKagan Ah, sorry for the ping, I was just scrolling down to this message by terdon.

No problem. I was writing my reply before you pinged. :)

@Zanna Relating to my suggestion to search for other such posts and undelete them if appropriate, it occurs to me to ask if there is a licensing issue--related to attribution--when undeleting posts that were deleted due to a user account being removed by a moderator (rather than by the user's choice). In the case of that post, I doubt it, in that it's a very small amount of text (which has even been heavily edited by others) and probably fair use.

But when an account is deleted, the username is reset and no longer links to the user's profile (which is no longer viewable). For self-deleted accounts, this is a way for users to exercise their right, under the relevant CC licenses, to insist that they no longer be attributed in subsequent publication of their work.

But most people want to be attributed, and I believe all the CC licenses ever used here require attribution except in the case that an author exercises that right or otherwise waives attribution.

This is a question for Meta Stack Exchange, I suppose, but perhaps you know. Also, since I was the one who suggested to search for more such posts, I figured I should mention it. Perhaps there is no issue.

no longer needed/unfriendly or unkind - IMO there's nothing wrong with criticizing or even insulting an operating system, but it uses language that is now (and, really, was then) recognized as a slur against a group of people. Also, that comment was never useful and always qualified to be deleted as no longer needed (or "obsolete" as it was called at the time).

OT bug-report (feature request)

OT no-repro, I'm finding this whole system totally confusing, I've now bought a Bluetooth/USB dongle so fortunately I no longer need an answer.