TRPG General Chat

12:03 AM

Oh, well, if anyone else here happens to know anything, even a small hint about where to look, do pass it on! I seem to remember having searched for various combinations of "autism, RPG" and such-like from time to time, but without much luck.

BESW

When I went looking for Pasifika/RPGSEA spaces, I started by identifying TRPG creators who made things for those spaces, and I followed them on social media. By seeing where they were sharing things from, I was able to build a map of the kinds of spaces they were in and where I might be welcome.

A. B.

@MarkWells I've known groups that can't even remember to schedule the next session. :-P

BESW What is "Pasifika/RPGSEA", and how do you "identify people who make things for those spaces" before you know what "spaces"? * scratches head *

BESW

Pasifika is used to indicate Indigenous peoples from the Pacific ocean, and RPGSEA is similar but for people from South-East Asia. So I looked for games by and for those groups.

19 hours ago, by BESW

Games of #RPGSEA a collection by Role Over Play Dead. Showcasing just a few of the diverse and original RPGs and larps created by the vibrant Southeast Asian scene!

By following them, I found their online spaces.

Projects like Islands & Aswangs and creators like Dee Pennyway and Pammu are actively broadcasting inclusive community spaces online.

For neurodivergence I might look at Amr Ammourazz (Twitter, itch.io), who is a vocally autistic TRPG creator.

Like any research, the first results are mostly just gonna help refine and maybe even redefine the search parameters.

rh16

12:27 AM

Is this room an appropriate place to ask for advice/resource recommendations about something that may be too broad for a question on the main site?

BESW

Sure! Can't promise we'll be helpful but we can try.

rh16

I'm a very green DM running a campaign of mostly unexperienced players and we've just had an unexpected PC death in combat at level 3. They player who died has never player D&D before and I don't want it to negatively effect peoples attitudes towards the game

GcL

@rh16 Roll up a new character. Integrate them ASAP. I find it useful to have the player state why the new character wants to or needs to work with and help the existing group as a prerequisite for approving the character.

Heck, you can ask the players for help figuring out how to get the new character into the narative.

rh16

I've been browsing the [character-death] tag looking for advice on keeping everyone feeling positive after a PC death but I couldn't find anything. Is there a good Q&A or other resource for handling that well

linksassin

@rh16 Alternatively let resurrection be a story line. With a temporary character until they get to a point where they can save their character.

GcL

12:33 AM

Do they want to meet them in a tavern? Find them trapped in a caved in part of the dungeon? Find them doing the main quest on their own with little hope of success and very happy to find others doing the same thing?

Shalvenay

hey there @linksassin

linksassin

I like to let the player take over a cool NPC ally or something until they decide what happens with the original.

@Shalvenay G'day hows it going?

rh16

@GcL That's useful advice, thank you. The session had gone on for a long time at that point, so I decided to end it there so I could have time to think (and the player could too)

MikeQ

@rh16 So your goal is to keep up player morale?

rh16

@MikeQ Yeah

MikeQ

12:34 AM

(before we start suggesting 100 random things, we should identify what this user is actually trying to achieve)

GcL

An early death of a character can be a good thing. It really points out that the characters can die in this endeavor. Makes the story more intense.

linksassin

@rh16 That's a good call. Players are often upset in the moment but after a bit of time they get excited about the new character or the story of bringing their old one back.

GcL

Just have a decent way of getting the players involved in moving the story forward. Ideally, people should be invested in developing the story and seeing how it turns out.... characters might come and go.

rh16

I'm worried it will drop because most of the players haven't played an RPG before, and might find it discouraging; keep them from getting attached to their characters

linksassin

@rh16 I've found the opposite actually. My players have become more attached and put more value on their lives following the first death.

MikeQ

12:37 AM

No no, it's a completely valid concern. I've learned to be detached with characters if I think the DM is going to kill them at any given moment.

GcL

I concur with @linksassin on this one. No safety net from the DM does make characters more precious.

I reward good role play. Even in death. Found it good to give the player the chance to utter last words. Can be very touching.

linksassin

@MikeQ True, it is a balancing act.

MikeQ

@rh16 Since you're focusing on an out of game factor (player morale), maybe have an out of game conversation about it. Explain that death happens in D&D, it's just part of the game. Then ask about their concerns going forward.

BESW

This is one reason I usually avoid systems where PC death is both random and significant.

GcL

"Run, you fools." That sort of thing.

linksassin

12:38 AM

You want to give them the impression they could die but not that you are trying to kill them. At least in my games thats the tone I go for.

GcL

or "Everyone's okay? Yeah... everyone's okay. It'll be fine." close scene.

Shalvenay

@linksassin OK here, as for you?

BESW

But yeah, definitely talk with the players about how you're feeling and how they're feeling and what they'd like to see happen going forward.

linksassin

@rh16 Is this something the player's have actually expressed concern about or are you worried preemptively since this is the first time you've experienced it?

BESW

The "how attached should I be to my character" conversation is very important, for calibrating group expectations.

rh16

12:39 AM

@linksassin yeah I've been trying to do, but I'm worried I've been making some mistakes

linksassin

@Shalvenay I'm pretty good. Work is busy though.

rh16

@linksassin worried preemptively

linksassin

@rh16 Have you talked to the player? How are they feeling?

rh16

@linksassin I've tried too, they are a very quiet person

They seemed pretty bummed out the day of, and I haven't seen them since

linksassin

@rh16 I find sending them a message the next day a good start. "Hey, I wanted to check in about how you're feeling after the session."

That's probably the best place to start.

BESW

12:42 AM

[Followup to previous conversation: @A.B. I found this list of ND RPG podcasts, and I know a lot of podcasts have forums or Discord channels or other social spaces associated with them. If you find a podcast that makes you feel good, there's a solid chance you can use its social space as a foot in the door to finding games with similar values.]

linksassin

@rh16 I think you'll find that once you start talking to the player about where they want to go next they will feel better. A lot of new players don't realise that death isn't the end.

rh16

@linksassin Yeah I've done that, no response yet but that's not too suprising, they can be slow to respond and are very busy out of game right now

linksassin

@rh16 Alright, how long before your next session?

rh16

A week

linksassin

And how long since you messaged them?

rh16

12:44 AM

Not long, was earlier today

GcL

A good massage usually helps.

linksassin

Ah ok. Give them some time to process then. The day of your first character death can be a better upsetting.

From a DM side you can start thinking of ways they can bring the character back if they want to.

BESW

I'm a big fan of "presumed dead."

rh16

@linksassin You don't think I risk cheapening the stakes? In our pre-campaign talk the players were keen to have stakes real and death a possibility, but I don't think anyone was expecting it so soon and the player in question, being quiet, didn't really say too much

GcL

@BESW Which is better than presumed red.

MikeQ

12:49 AM

Could be a one-time freebie, since they're new. It's up to you and your players. So you'd have to discuss it with them.

rh16

@MikeQ yeah I'll have a talk

I'm feeling a lot less worried about it now, so thanks everyone who has chipped in

Greatly appreciated

BESW

@rh16 Stakes-wise, it's my experience that death is one of the most boring and tedious thing that can possible happen to a character.

linksassin

@rh16 Coming back doesn't mean no consequences.

@BESW Exactly. All that character building wasted simply because they died. Death is by far the least interesting consequence.

BESW

Being dead means you've got no more worries, your story's over, stuff just stops. That can be upsetting for a player who was invested in the character, but that upset usually results in either detatching from the stakes of the story even further, or becoming inconveniently cautious in ways that disrupt the story for everyone.

rh16

@BESW true, I guess its the most low-effort way to create tension in combat

BESW

12:54 AM

Surviving? Well, you lost something, even if it's just time and pride.

rh16

Its the risk of it that is interesting, not it itself

linksassin

@MikeQ One time freebie is the way I work too. Every player gets one free res if they want it. Afterwards I use Matt Mercer's resurrection rules.

BESW

The opponent has gained an advantage in time, or position, or resources, which makes the stakes going forward even higher.

rh16

@linksassin What are Matt Mercer's resurrection rules?

BESW

A big obstacle to stakes-without-random-death, though, is that D&D-like games tend to default all conflicts to fights where death is what's at stake. If conflicts have clear stakes other than "kill the other guy before the other guy kills me," then the story opens up.

GcL

12:56 AM

@BESW On the other hand, I ran a consecutive campaigns and the players figured out I wouldn't let the characters die. Really made for some absurd and story breaking decisions. The spectre of death works well if you're not playing at a table where the players are more invested in the characters than the story.

linksassin

@rh16 Matt Mercer is the DM for Critical Role, the biggest D&D live play show and he uses a cool homebrew ruleset to make death more meaning full at higher levels. reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/5q0qv5/…

BESW

If the PCs are proactive and engaged in the world, if they want to learn something or protect someone or achieve something other than the endless "kill to be better at killing" cycle, then their reluctance to take risks stops being about avoiding boring anticlimactic death: their risk evaluation is rooted in something more complex, where failure can lead forward to new story.

GcL

My goto recently has to make an few NPCs with distinctive personalities and are helpful in different ways. See which ones the players glom onto, then integrate that NPC into the main story in an integral way. The characters in the last campaign died to achieve the end goal AND let that NPC survive. The players wrote a peaceful epilogue for the NPC as well.

BESW

Games like Golden Sky Stories and Lady Blackbird are great examples of how deathless play can still be dramatic.

rh16

@linksassin Yeah I've been listening to critical role and loving it (in fact its my only real prior experience with D&D), haven't encountered theses resurrection rules coming up yet though

GcL

1:00 AM

In Phoenix Dawn Command dying is a part of the story and mechanic for actually winning.

linksassin

@rh16 Are you watching campaign 1 or 2? It was much more common in campaign 1.

rh16

@linksassin I started 1, but switched to 2 when it started coming out because I liked seeing the characters grow right from the start

MikeQ

Unnecessary warning: Don't expect your games to function like they do in Critical Role

i.e. the mindset of "my game doesn't feel like Critical Role therefore (I am / the players are) doing something wrong"

or "it worked on Critical Role, therefore it will work in my game with my players"

linksassin

@MikeQ Absolutely. It's not really an achievable goal. There are other, more accessible streams that you could reach if @rh16 wanted to check it out.

rh16

@BESW That is some very useful advice, I may have some trouble integrating it at first as we're using a premade campaign but I'll certainly try

linksassin

1:04 AM

@rh16 What campaign are you playing?

BESW

Yeah, a lot of podcasts edit out critical but potentially tedious parts of their table experience. I think it was Critical Role that recently said they use safety tools but don't show the safety tools being used.

rh16

Don't worry guys I'm very aware that critical role is exceptional

Hoard of the Dragon Queen

BESW

(I don't pay much attention to podcasts but the "doesn't show safety tools" thing floated across my feeds a while back.)

rh16

I've been very happy with how the game has been feeling and having a great time even though its no critical role

MikeQ

It's not "better" or higher quality. It's just different. Different players with different expectations. Whereas your games should be catered toward your players.

3

linksassin

1:08 AM

@BESW I don't think it was critical role, they don't edit their show. But they definitely talk about what people are comfortable with outside of the show.

Shalvenay

Faerunian lore question: what's the snowiest city in Faerun? (I'm actually kind of wondering if it's something other than a place like Luskan, because Syracuse and Buffalo both beat the pants off of Anchorage when it comes to snow IRL most years...heck, there are probably some years where Anchorage's snow totals wouldn't even put it on the map for the Golden Snowball)

MikeQ

Icewind Dale sounds quite cold, guessing from the name

Shalvenay

@MikeQ that's the thing, I'm not after coldest

I'm after snowiest

and those aren't necessarily the same thing. see my point about Buffalo and Syracuse often being snowier than Anchorage

MikeQ

What about the Elemental Plane of Snow?

Shalvenay

(Syracuse in particular gets a double whammy of lake-effect snow and nor'easter bits)

linksassin

1:13 AM

@rh16 Summary of the advice: 1) Talk to the player. 2) Focus on how this setback can move the story forward. 3) Death isn't the only consequence. 4) Get them involved ASAP, either temp character or get their new character in.

Shalvenay

@MikeQ hahahaha, gotta be on the Prime XD although that'd be funny if there were such a demiplane

rh16

@linksassin yeah thanks so much (and everyone else who weighed in) I feel far more positive about it now

linksassin

@rh16 Glad we can help. You're welcome to ask for help in here any time.

KorvinStarmast

@V2Blast I started reading PvP and Penny Arcade almost two decades ago. Kurtz moved from Dallas to Wash state ... I call 'em as I see 'em. Brand thing, and brand association. (Given the success of PAX, maybe a smart move by WoTC).

BESW

@rh16 Yey! I hope to hear about how it turns out.

rh16

1:21 AM

@BESW yeah? Should I post here when I've had my talk with the player?

BESW

If it's something you can share with strangers on the Internet, yeah!

MikeQ

If you want. It's quite common for DMs and players to come to this chat to share good news / share bad news / poll for suggestions

rh16

I'm sure at leat most of it won't be personal stuff and its all pretty heavily anonymised, so yeah, I'll do that

Adeptus

@Shalvenay AFAIK they don't go into that level of detail

Medix2

1:41 AM

I recently decided to switch from looking at newest questions to looking at active ones and WOW, I though V2Blast was everywhere before and this... This is something else

linksassin

1:52 AM

@Medix2 rpg.stackexchange.com/users?tab=editors This tab really shows it.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay That's where I find myself wondering about the Moonsea. I don't have a sense of its scale, though, as for what sort of fetch it generates.

(Also, I know Toril is something like 10% larger in radius than Earth; I'm not sure if that, with a 24-hr rotational period, shifts wind-bands very much.)

BESW

Whenever I see "Moonsea," I want to pronounce is moonsie.

Adeptus

2:21 AM

@nitsua60 There are a few novels set in the Moonsea Isles (two trilogies, I think? I have the first)

nitsua60

@BESW Is that like when you forget to do the bottom snaps on your infant's onesie?

BESW

Shalvenay

2:54 AM

@nitsua60 yeah, it's a bit of an oddly-shaped body of water, too, which doesn't help matters at all

nitsua60

@Shalvenay But Fallen Stars seems too far south?

What's just south of the Spine of the World, over there on the northern stretch of the Sword Coast?

(Does this bring us right back to Luskan, where you started?)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 yeah, that's good ol' Illusk alright

@nitsua60 you do have a point about the Sea of Fallen Stars proper possibly being too far south?

although the hydraulics between it and the Moonsea are weird

I guess not too weird given the whole Bosphorus situation IRL :P

but yeah. Moonsea would be the most logical place to get it, unless it ices over....

BESW

The Machine (by Adira Slattery) calls to you to be built, and it will call to the next person after you are gone. A serial journaling game of futility and invention!

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Wouldn't be a crazy mainsite question: "what's the snowiest known location on Faerun?" Might need to specify timeline a bit, in case having a giagantic hole to the underdark appear for a century and then reseal matters....

Miniman

3:13 AM

@nitsua60 The Snowflake Mountains, obviously. It's right there in the name.

(See also Snowmantle, Snowdown. But the Snowflake Mountains are mountains, so it makes sense that they'd be snowier.)

linksassin

@Miniman Snowflake mountains has nothing to do with Snow. It just holds conventions for 21st century teenagers.

Miniman

@linksassin Badumtish.

trogdor

3:31 AM

21st century teenagers, creatures of the night with motivations alien to our understanding :P

GcL

@trogdor I blame the cats.

trogdor

Lol

The cats taking over our society and teaching the youths unscrupulous morals?

Ben

wave

linksassin

@Ben bows

Ben

3:46 AM

well, i dont know about all that just yet haha

linksassin

@Ben Was just a mark of respect. Don't get used to it :P

Ben

Haha. Just caught me off guard. Didn't know how to respond :P

Bows back

Maybe I've just been playing too much dark souls :P

GcL

4:01 AM

@trogdor I blame the music they listen to.

trogdor

Those dang cats and thier music

Ben

@trogdor Well... I dunno about that

The Aristocats - Everybody wants to be a cat

►

trogdor

Lol

Miniman

@Ben I mean, if someone bows to you in Dark Souls it usually means you're about to be destroyed by a twinked build, so the best response is generally to switch off your internet.

Ben

@Miniman Precisely XD

@Miniman I play on console, so it is rare to find a twink build. But I did actually run into one just recently - a Vilhelm cosplay in High Wall. This was before I'd beaten Vordt

Actually managed to hold my own against him too. He ended up winning just because they kept using estus lol. But I was pretty with my efforts

Miniman

4:17 AM

@Ben That's weird, with DS3 matchmaking. Had you picked up any special weapons?

Ben

Uhhh... not that I can think of.

The only things I'd picked up was the stuff from in-game... no one had dropped anything for me

In-game as in from regular gameply

trogdor

Vordt vordt vordt

Sounds like something Halo elites would say

Ben

@trogdor why does that sound like a laugh...

@trogdor Yes!

trogdor

XD

Miniman

@trogdor Halo x Dark Souls shared universe confirmed, I guess.

2

trogdor

4:23 AM

Lol

Ben

@Miniman Post-DS2 pre-DS3

Also, I started watching Star wars with the GF using the Machete Order. She didn't hate it, so I am keen to see how the rest of the series goes :D

linksassin

5:03 AM

@Ben "Didn't hate it" isn't exactly a glowing recommendation

Ben

Well, so far it's only been one movie.

Mark Wells

@Ben but Machete Order, so you started with the best movie :)

Ben

This is true. But from a newbies perspective, she doesn't know what is yet to come.

Mark Wells

I'm increasingly a fan of Space: 1977 order: Watch episode 4, then watch every other space-fantasy movie released in the next two years, assuming they're all in one big shared universe.

linksassin

5:18 AM

@MarkWells Haha, why stop at two years? Just assume everything release since is part of the same universe.

Adeptus

@linksassin I've seen timelines of events from all scifi movies set in earth's then-future. Of course, that doesn't include Star Wars, because it's set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Ben

FLASH.... AAAA-aaah

V2Blast

@rh16 Definitely a challenging campaign to run! I think there are some good Q&As on the site about the campaign itself, if you have any trouble with the adventure. :)

@MarkWells lol

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