TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

9:25 PM

Can a sheep get a hand interpreting this: 'deɪ kən

BESW

@nitsua60 Context?

nitsua60

(I can look up IPA, but I don't trust my ability to actually pronounce what I'm seeing.)

@BESW I asked someone for guidance pronouncing their last name.

I see a schwa. Something's horribly wrong if the sound I'm surest of is the schwa.

BESW

(also [grumblegrumble] remakes are not a newly populous thing, there were four "Christmas Carol" films between 1908 and 1916 and Hammer Films made its money off cheap remakes of classic horror films with the gimmick of "now in color!" from the 50s to the 70s)

I've got a friend who's pretty good with IPA, I'll see if they're around.

nitsua60

I feel like "DAY-kin" is what I'm getting....

user15026

@nitsua60 been a while since I did linguistics but lemme see if I can parse it out

A. B.

9:33 PM

I've been trying to do it by looking up words it might be pronounced like.

BESW

@Ash Thank you!

A. B.

It's not as in beacon and it's not as in bacon, or at least that's not how the dictionary site I was looking at did the IPA for those. But the last syllable is the same as in those.

MikeQ

Does ipa-reader.xyz give an accurate pronunciation?

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@nitsua60 Nope.

The first e is closer to one in bet, the inverted one is like the one in can (in some dialects anyway).

user15026

@MikeQ It doesn't seem to want to play nice with copypaste

MikeQ

9:39 PM

@Ash Ah, it's not parsing the apostrophe, but that just means the 1st syllable is emphasized. Take out the apostrophe and it plays.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Now I'm curious: what transcription system are your schools using when writing down how a word sounds if they're not using IPA? Because that's what we used when transcribing the pronunciations of English words.

The apostrophe is just a stress indicator.

user15026

@MikeQ Weird, it still won't for me.

nitsua60

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Roman letters.

=)

user15026

But then again my computer has been doing weirdness all day, so

BESW

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

9:39 PM

@nitsua60 How do you distinguish between the a in bath and a in trap using just Roman letters?!

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica you generally don't. It's a very flawed system.

nitsua60

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica One of them's preceded by a b and followed by a th, the other's preceded by a tr and followed by a p.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Ash So is there a reason why it's used instead of just IPA?

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica No idea

user15026

PRobalby because IPA is tricky to learn

user15026

9:41 PM

So they went for lowest common denominator in terms of approachability vs correctness

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@nitsua60 In case you're being serious: I don't mean spelling I mean transcription. The thing one writes in a dictionary after a word to allow reading it out loud.

user15026

it's not the greatest approximate, but it works reasonably

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica dictionary transcription usually uses IPA

user15026

for layperson use, though, the style of transcription @nitsua60 used there is usually what's done so you don't have to learn a whole alphabet to understand roughly how a thing should sound

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Ash So . . . if dictionaries use IPA, how do kids study new words without being able to read it?

Rubiksmoose

9:42 PM

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Asking someone else how to pronounce it lol

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Rote repetition etc

user15026

Like..."look it up in the dictionary" is less and less common

Rubiksmoose

Seriously though I never once saw IPA in any class ever. The only reason I'm more familiar with it now is because of my studies in Japanese.

user15026

(especially now, like a lot of online dictionaries often have a "say this out loud" button)

user15026

@Rubiksmoose I encountered it a little here and there, but most of my knowing is from taking Linguistics

Rubiksmoose

9:44 PM

@Ash [deletes my partially written message] beat me to it.

user15026

@MikeQ It's not bad, I don't think

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@Rubiksmoose That's weird. Japanese has drastically less need for IPA than English does.

user15026

Would be passible for @nitsua60's needs I think - like it might not be perfect, but it's a reasonable attempt I think

Rubiksmoose

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica For sure. It's just that one place that was introducing the sounds optionally gave IPA equivalents and I was interested so I dug in a tiny bit. My wife is studying french and her system used it much more.

user15026

I used it for Russian a bunch (although I am still bad at anything with soft signs. My brain knows what it should do but my mouth just goes all sideways)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

9:46 PM

@Rubiksmoose Yeah, French orthography has comparable depth to English, though reading French is still less ambiguous than reading English.

Rubiksmoose

One thing that is tricky for me for Japanese pronunciation is that I actually have to be careful with my vowels unlike English in the midwest US where we basically make whatever sound we want when a vowel comes up and it gets the job done.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

Ooh, Russian is an ambushing one. It looks as if it's orthographically shallow, but it secretly isn't, and treating it as a shallow one will get one laughed at.

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Yep! That is...so very true.

user15026

I made my Russian prof laugh a lot.

Rubiksmoose

@Ash I read about IPA just enough to love that something like it exists (yay organizing knowledge!) but not enough to actually absorb any of it.

user15026

9:48 PM

Linguistics 101 at my university was like 90%"learn how to use IPA" :P

Rubiksmoose

That makes a lot of sense lol

user15026

@nitsua60 did listening to it on the site @MikeQ linked help?

A. B.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica What difference between the a in bath and the a in trap? There isn't one.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. One uses ɑː and the other uses ɐː.

user15026

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica All of that is going to be dependent on dialect, but yes

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

9:59 PM

I had to look the specific symbols up because we're getting into stuff that's above the usual level a foreigner is taught.

user15026

You're kinda getting beyond most of what we're taught - honestly a lot of language acquisition here is "does it sound close enough that people can identify what you mean? Cool. Good. We're done here"

user15026

plus you gotta take into account regional differences in dialect and sound (like the pin/pen merger etc)

user15026

(For a really fun example, watch a Binging With Babish video, listen to him when he mentions a saucepan.)

user15026

(to a lot of people, it is gonna sound like he's saying "saucepin")

Zachiel

Us studying areonautics and the pronounciation of numbers: "One (Wan)"

A classmate: "Wait, wouldn't it be the same if it had been written "One (One)"? That's how you pronounce it!"

Rubiksmoose

10:07 PM

@Ash yup. At most most of us get "A as in 'apple'"

A. B.

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Why would they be spelt differently when they're the same sound?

user15026

@A.B. They aren't, for everyone.

Rubiksmoose

@A.B. I'm guessing dialect difference.

For midwest US english, they sound like the same sound to me (neither sounds like ɑ)

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. They're not. It's the [in]famous Bath-Trap Split that the language is known for.

BESW

> The trap–bath split (also TRAP–BATH split) is a vowel split that occurs mainly in mainstream and southeastern accents of English in England (including Received Pronunciation), in New Zealand English and South African English, and also to a lesser extent in Australian English as well as older Northeastern New England English

A. B.

10:09 PM

Oh? Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm in the North of England and they are identical here as far as I can tell. I know in some Southern (English) accents bath is pronounced barth, perhaps trap doesn't do that?

Rubiksmoose

Trap–bath split

The trap–bath split (also TRAP–BATH split) is a vowel split that occurs mainly in mainstream and southeastern accents of English in England (including Received Pronunciation), in New Zealand English and South African English, and also to a lesser extent in Australian English as well as older Northeastern New England English (notably, older Boston accents), by which the Early Modern English phoneme /æ/ was lengthened in certain environments and ultimately merged with the long /ɑː/ of father. In this context, the lengthened vowel in words such as bath, laugh, grass, chance in accents affected by...

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

This is an example of exactly what makes spelling so many sounds with a mere 26 letters so treacherous.

A. B.

Hm! Interesting.

BESW

Very aggressively regional and not generalizable. Like most of English.

user15026

@BESW Yep, we don't get it here much

BESW

10:11 PM

But, yanno. Also like almost any other widespread language? Regional variations happen and they generally don't matter because we can understand each other through them just fine. Trying to enforce rigorous homogeneity is a bugbear.

Somebody ping me when this conversation is over so I can share some interesting TRPG links without them getting lost.

user15026

@BESW Will do

Rubiksmoose

@BESW I think IPA is neat because it captures those tiny differences (or at least seems like it does) and allows us to write down and talk about them.

user15026

@BESW Pretty much, it's a weird thing to get tight over - as long as people can understand each other, it matters less.

Zachiel

Chances are I will now say something, then ping BESW to declare that the conversation is over XD

Someone_Evil

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Having spelling that actually follow pronunciation doesn't work well with dialects though. Spelling will vary with dialect such that you have to voice anything you read to understand it.

A. B.

10:19 PM

From what Vicky was saying, though, IPA doesn't follow pronunciation. More like... patterns? Don't know how to describe it, even.

Someone_Evil

@A.B. IPA does IIRC, different dialects are describable using IPA

user15026

@A.B. IPA is basically "where do you put your tongue and lips and such when you make sound"

user15026

They're describing sounds, and when the dictionary etc describes the IPA pronunciation, it's basing it on a particular dialect.

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. IPA is used to write down a pronunciation. It can vary in its degree of precision, glossing over distinctions that are considered unimportant in a given context, or calling attention to them as needed.

A. B.

Then in my local variation of English bath and trap actually should use the same vowel in IPA, after all?

user15026

10:23 PM

Potentially, yes

vicky_molokh- unsilence Monica

@A.B. In your variant, that's rather likely.

nitsua60

@vicky_molokh-unsilenceMonica Sorry--I wasn't being serious. I don't even hear a difference between those two sounds, though, so I'm probably not the person to ask.

@BESW My gramma (turn-of-the-20th-C Boston) definitely hewed to this. A century later, not so much.

And it seems like that's all settled. RPG links, ahoy!

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Never, ever, prepare a whole bunch of fresh jalapenos to be grilled later, and then run to the restroom ... without first doing an amazing job of cleaning your hands.

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast whooooo boy. Yeah.

BESW

The BOLT RPG Engine (v0.2.1) by Ajey Pandey is a modding-focused role-playing game engine designed to port across multiple settings. It’s a d10+d4 skill-based system, with fast and lethal combat, an XP system that prioritizes roleplaying, and a core resolution mechanic that incentivizes risk-taking and inducing chaos.

Kickstarter: Sea of Legends by Guildhall Studios. Chart a course for adventure in this narrative-driven, open-world tabletop game for 1 - 4 players. Swashbuckle and swindle your way to victory as one of four unique captains. Raid ports, bury treasure, fall in love, and defeat your nemesis as you compete to become the most legendary pirate on the open sea.

KorvinStarmast

10:33 PM

@NautArch I have done this in real life. "Weird" is very context dependent.

BESW

Before the Beginning by Rafael Carneiro Vasques is a game of scavengers and their families struggling to build a city in a post-apocalyptic world. You will face moral challenges and dangers of all sorts: witches, doomsday religious cults, cyborgs, mutants... everything to build a home, to belong somewhere. Once the city is built, you can finally rest. Until there, there's no room for cowards.

The Summit of Kings – Battle for the Supreme Jalen by Brandon Dixon is a 2 – 4 player one-shot set in the Swordsfall universe. You can play it as a fun one-shot with your group, an amusing detour for the Jalen in your Swordsfall group, or an adventure in your system of choice. Either way, the goal is to have a unique experience of a classic rap battle of your table.

"Hard Times Don’t Make Strong Soldiers" an article by Bret Devereaux for Foreign Policy. For a more in-depth exploration of the theme, read his collection of blogs under the tag the Fremen Mirage.

"Rusted Swords & Nice Boys: Gender in Sleepaway" (article by Brie Beau Sheldon for Thoughty, about Jay Dragon's game Sleepaway about horror, dreams, and summer camp)

@Rubiksmoose Also, if you need dried hot peppers and all you have is fresh, you can usually get away with microwaving one at a time but never try to do a whole handful at once.

Rubiksmoose

@BESW having never thought to microwave peppers (very clever idea) what happens?

user15026

@BESW I really like this article. I have Feelings about it I can't articulate, but I like it.

BESW

@Rubiksmoose You fill the house with aerosolized capsaicin.

Someone_Evil

Ah... all natural pepper spray you say?

MikeQ

10:48 PM

On a similar note, never saute jalapenos without opening a window

user15026

@BESW Okay, I never thought about this in so much detail before but I really like this, because it pushes back against something that had always itched at me. I dislike the rhetoric that hardship equals strength, and this worded why in neat historical references that I was not aware of.

user15026

@BESW Now I have to look up Swordsfall, as I am not familiar.

user15026

@BESW This sounds awesome but I am SO BAD at holding still long enough to accomplish board games.

A. B.

@nitsua60 Oh, you never did say how that name is pronounced?

BESW

@Ash Swordsfall is an Afropunk sci-fantasy project inspired by pre-colonial Africa. It's a setting that is expressed through a lot of different outlets including a TRPG.

nitsua60

10:55 PM

@Ash This is something to mull over....

@A.B. I have no idea.

BESW

(Swordsfall is not Africanfuturism or Africanjujuism, it's Afropunk.)

Rubiksmoose

@BESW oh dear! Yeah that is definitely not a good thing to do.

user15026

@BESW Ah, neat. I will have ot investigate it.

user15026

@BESW Thank you for clarifying

BESW

I'm glad Swordsfall exists but it's a h*ckin' lot more lore than I have the spoons to process these days.

Also, "Summit of Kings" is only the second TRPG material I've ever seen that puts "have a rap battle" at the center of the experience and I love that's a thing.

user15026

11:02 PM

What's the first?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Youve approached strangers in areas you've been told to.be careful in?

BESW

@Ash The 99¢ Chamber of Death by C.D. Guzman is a role playing game for two or more people. You'll assume the role of Warriors bent on stopping the Big Boss from obtaining the Power to rule New Jungle Village. It's a place where your dice are only as dangerous as your words. The 99¢ Chamber will ask you to fight and rhyme against evil.

user15026

Neat

Shalvenay

@NautArch I guess that depends on your definition of "careful", or more precisely, which hazards you are dealing with?

BESW

Sale: Sabres and Feelings by Swords and Flowers is a one-page micro Space Epic TTRPG. Play as rebels who stumble upon the mythic SPACE SABER, a weapon which could be your galaxy's last hope. Enact high-stakes adventures in a brilliant, shining science-fantasy world as you fight against evil to bring back peace. It's a game that pays tribute all the space stories we know and love, and for us to make our very own.

Contest: Trophy Gold Incursion Contest deadline is extended to May 15th.

user15026

11:21 PM

@BESW my head keeps mixing this up with lasers and feelings.

trogdor

lol

I wonder why?

:P

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch yes, and when you are in the Navy, that's no such an uncommon occurrence. Each situation has its own logic and circumstance. :-)

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