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7:00 PM
$3\pi/2+(\pi-b)$
 
Pour commencer à $b$ et arriver à $(-1,0)$ il faut soustraire $b-\pi$. Et puis il faut soustraire encore une fois, n'est-ce pas?
 
on commence par pi on passe par 3pi/2 puis pi/2
donc on a fait 3\pi/2
puis on ajout de pi/2 a c
 
Let $x_{n+1}=\frac{1}{2}\left(x_{n}+\frac{\alpha}{x_{n}^4}\right)$ with arbitrary $x_0$ and $\alpha$. Show that if the sequence converges, then it is eventually constant. Any idea?
 
Je ne comprends pas du tout. Tu as un dessin du cercle et de ce que j'ai discuté?
 
on démarre de pi pour arrive a c
pi-c
 
7:07 PM
J'ai suggéré que tu commences à $b$, puis que tu t'en ailles à $(-1,0)$ et puis à $c$. On a soustrait quel angle?
 
(Of course $\alpha >0$)
 
@Emolga: So what has happened when you've tried examples?
 
@TedShifrin on soustrait b-\pi
 
La première fois, oui. Et la seconde?
 
Salut
 
7:18 PM
@Astyx, mon cher!
 
Comment ça va ?
 
Peut-être que tu pourras aider Poline mieux que moi :P
 
@TedShifrin It seems to never converge, except in the trivial case (starting from the limit), but rather reach a 2-cycle
 
Peut-être, je ne suis pas sûr de comprendre quelle est a question
 
Si on a $b\in [\pi,3\pi/2]$, on cherche $c\in [\pi/2,\pi]$ tel que $\cos c = \cos b$. !!
@Emolga: Interesting. So the limit would be $\root5\of\alpha$, if it exists. But the unique critical point of $f(x)=\frac12(x+\alpha/x^4)-x$ is at $\root5\of{-4\alpha}$.
Astyx, I'm trying to get her to use the unit circle and reflect from the third quadrant to the second.
We seem not to understand how reflection is calculated with the angles. :(
 
7:26 PM
Ha
 
@TedShifrin Isn't the critical point with a plus sign, $(+4\alpha)^{\frac 15}$?
 
I changed it to look for the fixed point.
So I'm looking at $f(x)=x$ in the previous notation.
 
je suis de retour désolée déconnexion
@TedShifrin de b a pi c'est meme chose de pi a c
 
@Poline: Oui! Formidable. Alors, enfin, on est à quel angle?
 
c=-b+2\pi
 
7:30 PM
Oui, c'est ça! Merveilleux.
 
oui il fallait que je mange un peu
merci
 
Au début, quand tu as dit $c=-b$, j'ai dit "presque" :P
 
On reflechit mieux le ventre plein
 
Oui, il faut toujours manger!
 
donc a $a=-b+2\pi $
 
7:32 PM
ou $2\pi -b$, oui :P
Astyx, tu t'amuses bien? :)
 
merci beaucoup et désolé pour le derangement
 
LOL, ça va :)
 
Je suis en vacances en ce moment, mais j'ai pas trop le temps dem'ennuyer
 
Amuse-toi bien :)
 
Tu aurais de la lecture à me conseiller à propos de la théorie de Morse discrète ?
 
7:35 PM
Non, malheureusement, je n'en connais rien.
 
Il parait que ça permet de faire de l'algorythmique intéressante
 
Tu devras me l'apprendre :)
 
@TedShifrin Yes, I agree. Do we know anything "general" about what happens when there are no real critical points of $f(x)-x$? I assume my aim currently is to show preperiodicity
 
I figured you should show the limit point is repelling or something.
I actually have not thought about problems like this before.
 
@TedShifrin Haha si j'arrive à y comprendre quelque chose déjà ! :)
 
7:45 PM
Entendu, @Astyx :)
Tu es où en vacances?
 
@TedShifrin Even if the point is repelling, maybe I travel away from the fixed point and then reach near it from far away later.
 
Can you good people frish up my memory. Can you multiply a row or Coulumn of matrix wih scalar null. I am reading couple of proofs and it is said that the scalar not equal to null. However when i went back to the definition it did not spesifically said it can not be null
 
Chez moi à Orsay, j'ai pas mal de travail
 
No, I don't think so, @Emolga. I'll think about this later today.
Oh, c'est pas du tout de vacances, @Astyx :(
If you're talking about row/column operations, @MadSpace, of course it specifies non-zero.
 
J'ai pas de cours et du temps pour mettre les choses à plat
C'est déjà ça
 
7:47 PM
OK, OK, @Astyx. Je m'attendais à ce qu'on s'amuse bien :P
 
@TedShifrin Oh ok . I got confused since it is not written like that in my script. Maybe my professor forgot that.
 
Row/column operations need to be invertible, @MadSpaceMemer.
 
Got you. No null!
 
@TedShifrin YES! You convinced me!
I mean you solved the problem
 
8:18 PM
Is there an example of groups $A$ and $B$ such that there exists non-trivial homomorphisms from $\prod\limits_{i=1}^\infty A$ to $B$, but only trivial homomorphisms from $A$ to $B$?
 
8:45 PM
@Rithaniel no
 
Well that's actually quite helpful
Now I know that what I'm looking for is something of the form $\prod\limits_{i=1}^\infty A_i$
 
@Rithaniel I'm sorry, I was wrong
 
Oh? Well dang
 
or I'm not sure
but it doesn't work if you let the $A_i$ vary
 
What about $\prod\limits_{i=1}^\infty\mathbb{Z}/i\mathbb{Z}$ and $B=\mathbb{Z}$?
 
8:50 PM
there's a non-trivial homomorphism $\prod_{n=1}^\infty \Bbb Z/n\Bbb Z \to \Bbb Q$
 
Oh really? How would you construct it?
I know there is only the trivial homomorphism from $\mathbb{Z}/n\mathbb{Z}$ to $\mathbb{Q}$, so this sounds like exactly what I'm looking for
 
note that the element $(1,1,1,\dots,) \in \prod_{n=1}^\infty \Bbb Z/n\Bbb Z$ has infinite order, thus the subgroup it generates is isomorphic to $\Bbb Z$, so we can map it to any element in $\Bbb Q$
but $\Bbb Q$ is an injective $\Bbb Z$-module, so that homomorphism can be extended to the whole group
 
Could we just use a homomorphism that sends $\{1\}_{i>0}$ to $\mathbb{Z}$? (So the codomain would be $\mathbb{Z}$ instead of $\mathbb{Q}$) Or is that not necessarily a homomorphism?
 
@Rithaniel you can do that
but you can't necessarily extend it
to the whole group
because $\Bbb Z$ is not an injective $\Bbb Z$-module
but $\Bbb Q$ is
 
Oh, wait, so we're sending $\mathbb{Z}$ to $\langle \{1\}_{0<i}\rangle$ and then using injectivity. Gotcha (I had the arrows reversed on the injective diagram. Had to look at my notes)
 
9:03 PM
unit distance planar vertex transitive simple graphs, with an embedding where faces are convex
 
@Rithaniel no
we're sending $(1,1,1,\dots,)$ to any element $q \in \Bbb Q$
 
seems to consist of one finite and various infinite trees, every graph that's just one cycle, the triangle grid, square grid, and hexagonal grid, and just one more that I can find where each vertex neighbours four triangles and a rhombus
 
$q\neq 0$ if you want a non-trivial homomorphism
and then using the fact that $\Bbb Q$ is injective, extend that to a homomorphism $\prod_{n=1}^\infty\Bbb Z/n\Bbb Z \to \Bbb Q$
 
So, my understanding of Injectivity is that, if $f:A\to B$ and $g:A\to X$ are homomorphisms where $X$ is injective, then there exists a $\psi:B\to X$ such that $g=\psi f$. So, in this example we want to use $f:\mathbb{Z}\to\prod\limits_{i=1}^\infty\mathbb{Z}/i\mathbb{Z}$ and $g:\mathbb{Z}\to\mathbb{Q}$ to get a homomorphism $\psi:\prod\limits_{i=1}^\infty\mathbb{Z}/i\mathbb{Z}\to\mathbb{Q}$.
 
you need $f$ to be a monomorphism, but yeah
otherwise it's correct
sorry for the confusion
 
9:12 PM
Alright, then I understand what's going on (nah, it's cool) :]
 
nvm
 
9:29 PM
Hello all. I'm reading John Lee's Axiomatic Geometry. It includes a detailed treatment of Euclidean plane geometry with rigorous proofs from axioms. But it doesn't include Euclidean solid geometry and Cartesian coordinate system (Analytic geometry). Anyone know of books that cover these topics and are rigorous like John Lee's book?
 
Hello
 
10:17 PM
If $G = \Bbb R / \Bbb Z$, I'm asked to prove that the action of $G$ on $C(G, \Bbb C)$ by translation is not continuous for the operator norm on $C(G, \Bbb Z)$
 
10:30 PM
@LukasHeger nice
 
et $X$ and $Y$ have the standard bivariate normal density, with parameter $\rho,\sigma$ and $\tau$. Let $U=X\cos(\theta)+Y\sin(\theta)$ and $V=Y\cos(\theta)-X\sin(\theta)$. Find the values of $\theta$ such that $U$ and $V$ are independent.
\begin{align*}
0&=\text{Cov}(U,V)\\
&=\text{Cov}(X\cos(\theta)+Y\sin(\theta),Y\cos(\theta)-X\sin(\theta))\\
&=\text{Cov}(X\cos(\theta), Y\cos(\theta)-X\sin(\theta))+\text{Cov}(Y\sin(\theta), Y\cos(\theta)-X\sin(\theta))\\
&=\text{Cov}(X\cos(\theta), Y\cos(\theta))-\text{Cov}(X\cos(\theta),X\sin(\theta))+\text{Cov}(Y\sin(\theta), Y\cos(\theta))\\
&\;\;\;-\text{Cov}(Y\sin(\theta),X\sin(\theta))\\
&=\cos^2(\theta)\text{Cov}(X, Y)-\cos(\theta)\sin(\theta)\text{Cov}(X,X)+\sin(\theta)\cos(\theta)\text{Cov}(Y, Y)-\sin^2(\theta)\text{Cov}(Y,X)\\
 
So a map G->C is a closed curve in C, the operator norm is just the furthest point from the origin.
 
Right
 
what tri identies should I use
 
And when you act by translation that's just rotating the curve?
Or hmm no maybe not
 
10:32 PM
Yes, that's my understanding
 
If it were that would make this false but also that feels like you're acting on the image instead of domain
 
Well rotating but in 4D
 
@Lukas the only listed reference for the analytic number theory Vorlesung is Zagier's "Zetafunktionen und quadratische Zahlkörper" so looks like it's gonna be about Dirichlet/Dedekind zeta functions :D
 
@EdwardEvans that's a cool book
 
or, they will at least be something we learn about lol
 
10:35 PM
although it's not in LaTeX
 
nice :)
Lol damn
 
Hey Lukas and Edward (igjo?)
 
Still, cool topic
Hey @Daminark ! Yeah that's me lol
 
hey @Daminark
 
Should I submit to the peer pressure and just use my name?
Everyone probably knows it anyway
 
10:36 PM
One of us, one of us
 
lol
 
user447585
What would be consequences if infinite number of Riemann-zeta zeros are off the critical line but in critical strip?
 
do as you prefer
 
Okay does this work?
Apparently not
 
it takes a while to update lol+
 
10:39 PM
Maybe I'll log out and back in
Henlo
 
nope
 
Press F to pay respects
Whatever with time
 
Just change your legal name to Daminark then
 
Fractal brain strat
 
lol
Hey @Alessandro
 
10:40 PM
MSE profile page is updated
 
Hi @Edward
 
\('-')/
 
Anyway long time no see Dami, what kind of math have you been thinking about lately?
 
what've you been up to @Daminark ?
snorped
 
10:42 PM
Doing homological algebra, AG2, and elliptic curves. Tbh last semester I suffered from insufficient-immediate-deadlinesitis
So I didn't really do much math and now I'm trying to kick it back into gear lol
 
nice
 
Is AG2 schemes or classical?
I'm going to say "bleh" whatever you answer tbf
 
So this year things are weird, the guy who's teaching both semesters of AG now is teaching "topics in AG" next fall and wants to make it an extension of this class
 
Demonark is still using that excuse :P
 
10:45 PM
hey @Ted
 
rehi @Lukas
 
So he's kinda taking a more "scenic route" through things. Right now he's talking about divisors and such, eventually he'll get to schemes
 
rehi
 
Hey Ted!
 
rehi, Edward
hi Demonark
 
10:46 PM
Hey @Ted :)
 
Will Ted start calling you Emon once the change takes place ?
 
Nah, still Demonark.
 
We need to convince Ted to change to Theodore now
 
lol
 
@yh05 Have you looked at the original source, Euclid?
Why, Alessandro? No one calls me that.
 
10:48 PM
Everyone is switching to their full name lately
 
Well, when she was alive and compos mentis, my mom did when she was angry with me.
 
Theodore is a cool name tbf
 
I have my full name. It's just not my legal name.
Yes, Theodore = Gift of God. Let that sink in!
 
Oha
Edward = Wealthy guardian
 
Fair enough
 
10:49 PM
but I'm not rich and I'm irresponsible
 
I would agree with the irresponsible part :)
 
Hehe
 
Continuous functions on compact sets are always uniformly continuous right ?
 
I think Alessandro means something like protector of men
 
@TedShifrin I'm looking for modern books with a similar level of rigour like John Lee's Axiomatic Geometry.
 
10:50 PM
@Astyx yes
 
Theodoro that is cool imo
the rest are fine but not as cool as Ted's name
 
Euclid was amazingly rigorous.
 
@Ted can I call you Θεόδωρος
 
Where is your counterpart? did not see him in a while? @TedShifrin
 
Nirfihs Det?
 
10:52 PM
Lee's book was written for future high school teachers. No one teaches 3D geometry in high school, so you won't find a Lee-like source. Here's a fabulous book on all of geometry, by one of the great French differential geometers. Geometry (volumes 1,2) by Marcel Berger. Super rigorous.
Haven't seen alternative Ted in ages, @Jacksoja.
 
That problem is giving me headaches
 
Yes, @Astyx. Not headache-worthy.
 
Definetly
 
@Daminark say it backwards three times in the bathroom mirror and @Ted will approach you geometrically
 
Yeah I'm not seeing it either for some reason, like on R I see it
 
10:53 PM
@TedShifrin Haha I like that name, alternative Ted :D you being the original one
 
Do it by contradiction. Or you can use the Lebesgue number for an appropriate covering.
 
Because you take a bump and push it off to infinity
 
wait you can do it directly
just use the definition of compactness
 
He means an earlier problem
 
Yes, you can do it directly.
You can find it in my YouTube lectures, too :P
Oh, then, what is the problem?
 
10:54 PM
R/Z acts on C(R/Z,C) by translation, show that action isn't continuous wrt operator norm
 
Oh yes the continuous on compact => uniformly continuous was just a sanity check
 
OK.
Hmm, that sure feels continuous.
 
Could be C(R/Z, R) actually, it's just written C(R/Z) so I don't know
 
Irrelephant.
 
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the problem completely
 
10:55 PM
And yeah I'm thinking that like, the action of R on C(R) definitely isn't continuous because you can take a bump and push it off to infinity, then translation pushes it back to 0
 
Yes, it depends on compactness for sure.
 
But on the circle you can't really play this game
 
$C(\Bbb R)$ isn't even a normed space.
I assume you mean bounded continuous.
 
True yeah we'd probably need to say compact support or something
That too
 
Yeah, it's just uniform continuity on the circle.
 
10:58 PM
But yeah something's off because on the circle you'd think it's continuous because you map the curve to a rotated curve?
So it feels like the action is continuous
 
Or look at $|f(\theta+\epsilon)-f(\theta)|$.
Probably better to write in terms of $e^{i\theta}$.
Sure don't see much of @ÉricoMeloSilva any more.
 
Or unless we mean it's not continuous "in G".
Oh wait okay okay I'm starting to see it maybe
 
Huh?
The group acts on the Banach space. We're talking about continuity of that action.
 
Yeah see I was originally thinking that they were asking to prove that T_t (translation by t) isn't a BLO but maybe they're referring more to the map G\times C(G,C)) -> C(G,C)
And the discontinuity of that is more plausible to me because if you take an extremely tiny bump and rotate it by some g that's real close to the identity, now you'll get two functions that are kinda far in operator norm
 
What do you mean by operator norm?
 
11:03 PM
On C(G,C))
 
Which means?
 
Oh I guess that's bad terminology, sup norm
 
$\sup ({\sup(A(f)(x))_{x\in R/Z}\over \sup(f(x))_{x\in R/Z}})_f$
 
So it's just uniform continuity.
 
That's uglier than I hoped
 
11:07 PM
This doesn't make sense to me. The max of $f$ and the max of rotated $f$ are identical.
 
Or oh you're thinking of it as a map from G to bounded linear operators on C(G,C))
 
Yes
I agree with Ted, the action of $G$ is isometric
 
It's an isometry.
 
So I don't understand how it could ever be discontinuous
 
Me either. Who came up with this nonsense?
 
11:08 PM
One of my professors
 
And you've given the verbatim statement?
 
Or hmm it's still plausible to me that this might be interpreted in a way that makes sense, like the action of each g is an isometry
But the map G->isometries is what fails to be continuous
 
Nah.
 
"Soit G=R/Z. On munit V=C(G) de la norme ||f||= supx|f(x)| et on considère l’action par translation de G sur V. Montrer qu’elle n’est pas continue pour la topologie de la norme d’opérateur."
 
I don't think putting the operator norm on $\mathrm{Hom}(V,V)$ gives you the right notion for a continuous action on a normed space $V$. In general a continuous action corresponds to a continuous map $G \times V \to V$ which is equivalent to a continuous map $G \to C(V,V)$ where we put the compact-open topology on the latter. Now I don't think the compact-open topology restricts to the operator norm
 
11:10 PM
So maybe G\times C(G) -> C(G) is a better idea
 
But $G$ is compact here.
 
I understand it as G\times C(G) \to C(G), given it's a course about representations of compact groups
 
well the question explicitly says operator norm
so forget what I said
we have to look at the operator norm
 
I'm still hesitant as a result but like, consider a sequence of bumps that get smaller and smaller in width
 
So the problem is uniformity in $f$, not in $\theta$.
 
11:13 PM
Meh actually this might not work I need to get home and get some paper instead of trying to reason over a phone
Otherwise I'm at even higher risk than usual of fantasy math
 
So the difference of two nearby isometries might be big? Hmm....
 
Yeah maybe... Pretty much otherwise I can't see a way for this problem to make sense
 
So we want to look at $\|T_\theta f - T_\phi f\|$, which should just be $\|T_{\theta-\phi}f-f\|$.
Ah, but we have to do this for all $f$ with norm $1$.
So probably Demonark is on the right track.
 
Oh wait
 
You can take $f$'s that are bump functions with the size of the bump going to $0$.
So if the bandwidth of $f$ is smaller than $\theta-\phi$, the difference is big.
 
11:18 PM
we cannot bound $\|T_{\theta-\phi}f-f\|$ in terms of $|\theta-\phi|$
we can always make it $1$ for some suitable $f$ with $\|f\|=1$
 
Right ... uniformly in $f$.
Yup.
You need an equicontinuous family of $f$.
Oops.
 
Ah hah
 
By "size" of the bump, of course, I meant (as did Demonark) "width."
Oh hell, Demonark has transmogrified.
 
C(G) is a Banach space right ?
 
11:23 PM
Yup.
Are you convaincu?
 
I have a theorem that states that a group morphism $G \to Aut(C(G))$ is a continuous representation iff both partial applications are continuous everywhere
Which one isn't here ?
 
Partial applications?
 
the applications $f \mapsto g\cdot f$ where $g$ is fixed and $g \mapsto g\cdot f$ where $f$ is fixed
 
Ah, so I'm saying that the former gets in trouble.
 
I don't see it
I might need to sleep on it
 
11:27 PM
Copying Demonark, I'm saying there are $g$ arbitrary close to the identity for which $\|g\cdot f - f\|$ is large for many $f$.
The second partial application is what was preoccupying us with talk of uniform continuity.
 
So the usual map to show chain homotopy is reflexive is to take the homotopy $h_n = 0$ for each $n$. Am I crazy, or does $h_n = \partial_n$ also work?
(the boundary map)
 
We need a chain homotopy between complexes.
 
But there aren't any $f$ close to 0 such that $\vert g\cdot f - f\vert$ is big are there ? And that would be the definition of continuity of $f\mapsto g\cdot f$
 
@Astyx: Aren't we looking at $f$ with $\max |f| = 1$?
 
Why would we be ?
 
11:33 PM
Because of operator norm.
You missed my moment of clarity about 10 minutes ago :P
 
@anakhro I'm not following. You want to show that every chain map $f:A^{\bullet} \to B^{\bullet}$ is homotopic to itself. $h_n=\delta_n$ is not a chain homotopy from $f$ to $f$, because $h_n=\delta_n$ is not a map $A^{n} \to B^{n-1}$
 
I think anakhro is thinking about the homology situation where $A^\bullet = B^\bullet$?
And he's probably doing homology, not cohomology.
 
how does looking at homology imply that all chain complexes are the same
 
I'm just reading his mind. I'm not telling you he's right.
Part of teaching is guessing what mistakes people make :D
 
So just to be sure I'm understanding what you're saying, the map $f \mapsto (x\mapsto f(x+t))$ isn't continuous
 
11:41 PM
I'm saying that the sup over $f$ with norm $1$ will be norm $1$ no matter how small you make $t$.
Wait. I want to look at $\|T_t f-f\|$ for $t$ fixed and small, $\|f\|=1$.
Continuity should mean looking at $t$ near $0$ and comparing $T_tf$ with $T_0f$.
Norm of the difference, NOT difference of the norms.
 
I don't understand why continuity is this in the case of the first partial function
 
Why did your professor say operator norm?
 
What do you mean ?
 
$\lVert T_tf-f\rVert\stackrel{t\rightarrow0}{\rightarrow}0$ is equivalent to the uniform continuity of $f$, no?
 
No, we're taking the sup over all $f$ with $\|f\|=1$ !!
 
11:47 PM
You're not letting t go to 0 here, the idea is more varying f
 
We started with uniform continuity an hour ago. :P
 
We have come full $\mathbb{R}/\mathbb{Z}$
 
I've commented twice that this is really about whether the functions $f$ form an equicontinuous family, and they don't.
Ah, Demonark is back to his usual.
 
I've been trying to follow, but got lost
 
LOL, we're lost too.
I think I'm going to go for a walk before it gets too late here.
 
11:49 PM
I haven't been this lost in a while to be honest
 
The chat is $\mathbb{RP}^2$ right now
But yeah so the way I was thinking about it earlier wasn't quite the way your prof wanted it to be stated since it's in terms of operator norm but the vague idea was like
 
@Thorgott the point is more that $\mathrm{sup}_{\|f\|=1} \|T_t f -f \|$ doesn't go to $0$ for $t \to 0$
as it's just always $1$
 
You could take some bump $f_n$ that gets thinner and thinner, then take a sequence of $x_n$ converging to the identity of $G$.
 
LOL, that's what I said!!
 
ahh, I get it now
 
11:51 PM
This I agree with
 
As long as the "bandwidth" of $f$ is "behind" the rotation, what Lukas and I said happens.
@Astyx: We've been trying to wrestle with your prof's saying operator norm. We were not doing that originally.
@Astyx, if you want to work with "small" $f$s rather than norm $1$, then of course you must divide by $\|f\|_\infty$.
Demonark: It might be multiple connected sums of $\Bbb RP^2$ ... it's so disoriented ...
Bye for now.
 
so what happens if we look at a $p$-norm instead
 
Bye, thanks a lot
 
Hola
simple question, how much information can we get from this equation
 
See you Ted!
 
11:57 PM
rs | (x^(i-1) - 1)
rs are primes
i is just an integer
I concluded that both r and s has to divide that
but I wonder if we could extract more about this, the goal is to find r and s , so far I know only their product
 
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