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12:06 AM
Well, I'm not sure, but it looks like it's also sufficient to be a room owner.
Hi @Seth! How's it going?
Natty has stopped accepting feedback and responding to commands in this room, but continues to work in SEBotics. I think it may let you reboot it from that room, since you're a diamond moderator. Kulfy and I are hoping that may fix the problem.
@EliahKagan hi! pretty rough, tbh. but! finally done with uni for the year so that feels good.
I'm sorry to hear that -- but glad something is going well.
how about yourself? I've seen you around lately but it's been quite a while since we interacted :)
Pretty good.
Yeah, I've been much less active on AU for a year or so, until somewhat recently when I've been visiting the site (and chat) more.
glad to hear you're doing good
hey, you know, it's good to take breaks.
12:13 AM
I've kinda been on an unofficial one myself lately. RL stuff leaves me with little energy to troubleshoot other's issues, much as I do enjoy it.
Makes sense.
1:07 AM
@Natty tp
Hiya guys ... sorry, was away for a very long time... :(
Things been rough on the SO side
@Natty tp
Yup, tis working properly now.
1:42 AM
@BhargavRao no worries, good to see ya :D
Howz it goin?
@BhargavRao sorry to hear that :(
@BhargavRao going good :) doing slightly more AU stuff lately
Thanks for fixing Natty!
How long till they give you a diamond? :\
Bah, didn't fix ... just rebooted it. Looks like a websocket error.
@BhargavRao Idk about that, but there's plenty I can do without it :)
True that ...
Something which is not possible on SO, though ... :(
1:47 AM
Why is that?
There's a lot of bad posts ... 50 votes won't help ... 100 flags won't help...
I think Natty is better at identifying NAAs than many human users given the LQP queue's contents sometimes...
@BhargavRao so not even every little helps? It's just overwhelming no matter what?
Yep, kinda... The other thing was that the queues were like a blackhole ... your CVs go in there and that's it. Now, we're doing a small experiment where the CMs reduced the close voting to 3 votes instead of 5, and the queue is down to ~4k posts.
4k... wow
One of the main reasons why I ran for mod, was because the 10k/20k tools were quite limiting ...
It was some 8k before the experiment :D
1:54 AM
I can see how that would happen, I mean it would become a black hole, if reviewer numbers were small in relation to the size of the queue. We have even had the problem here that so many CVs age away because there are not enough active reviewers
But I wonder if 3 votes is enough
They should allow us to sort the queue by the number of CVs.
I guess it's just totally different trying to manage a site like that
That would atleast prevent the 4 CV ones from getting aged away.
@BhargavRao yeah... I think many people use the 10k tools for that
But the page only holds so many things
Then most of them are stuff you want to leave open and nothing more you can do
Yepz, the 10k tools are not that useful on SO for CVs.
1:58 AM
Maybe they could be redesigned
It's a bit of a cupboard although full of useful things haha
More filters would be some use...
Do people still manage to find good questions and answer them?
That cupboard analogy is so true! :D
Yeah, people answer everything ... even the bad ones.
Haha it's bad when people answer the bad ones
Since roomba refuses to eat them
Yep, but not much that we can do about it...
I remember telling a user not to answer bad questions when they were some 6k rep (I was at 25k then) ... now they've crossed 300k rep :D
2:03 AM
I guess bad questions getting answers is a tonne better than no questions getting answers
We definitely seem to lack answers here
Damn ... why's that? Users (Answerers) getting tired?
Thanks for fixing Natty.
np :)
Just ping me/invite me if it breaks again ...
@BhargavRao I think part of the problem is that a lot of the questions are too unclear, or they are just not seen by people with the relevant expertise
Which brings us to .. tags being incorrect ;p
That's a whole new area which has to be fixed
2:10 AM
@BhargavRao Thanks, will do. Btw, Kulfy found an (unrelated) bug where Sentinel links to whatever SO chat user has the same chat ID as the SE chat user who submitted a report. I'm not sure if that's an issue with Natty or with Sentinel, so I wasn't sure what repo to open an issue against. Since you're here, I figured I'd mention it.
Yeah wrong tags are a big problem here. There are a few folks always working at it
I suppose I should edit tag wikis.
That might improve tagging.
We should probably all be doing that :/
A lot of SO's tag wikis are way better than AU's on topics like where both sites should have excellent tag wikis.
@EliahKagan Ah, dang... Yep, that's a bug in Sentinel. It takes in the user-id of the person who provides feedback, and not the entire URL. Earlier we had separate Sentinel for AU, but after the merge, it doesn't seem to work anymore ...
No one looks at tag wikis.
That's something which I've learned on SO ...
2:14 AM
Maybe that won't solve the problem of bad tagging then.
I've been working on SO to get atleast 80% of the tag related issues (burns, retags, disambiguations) solved ... there's enough work to last the entire of next decade :(
I really think we should just remove rather than making it a synonym of @Kulfy because nearly everything in it is random stuff. Like, I need help so I'll add this tag with "help" in it
Brought up the synonym-requests from some 50% handled to 75 now ... and it took some 15 months.
Wow, great work!
@BhargavRao Should an issue be opened on on GitHub for it? If so, I could do that (unless Kulfy prefers to).
2:17 AM
I've been trying to remove the tag but people are creating questions with it at a similar rate to my retagging efforts D:
@EliahKagan That'd be awesome, thanks. I am not sure if Sentinel is being actively developed, but it never hurts creating an issue. :)
@Zanna is there a meta for it? ... a mod can probably ping a CM and ask them to poof the tag.
@BhargavRao there is a meta, but I think it needs to be done by hand to get the replacement tags right
I should just make a more focussed effort haha
Ahh, retag-request ... those are hard, yeah... :(
But atleast they earned me a bronze badge on SO meta so I like them :P meta.stackoverflow.com/help/badges/184/retag-request
It's a case where the tag is being used for image as in photos you want to process or view or manage, and image as in disk image. It's about 70:30 I guess. And stuff about pictures is getting 3 or 4 different more specific tags
@BhargavRao haha awesome
Badges are a great motivator
For me anyway
Oh yep..
It is for everyone, I guess :p
@Zanna one way out here would be to retag the 30% and then get a mod to rename the tag.
(I'm pretty sure that you guys would have already thought about this approach, though)
2:34 AM
This suggested edit adds a paragraph with a link that I suspect wouldn't make all that much sense in the post, but I can't even tell because the link is also broken. Also there's a chance it's spam though I'm not concluding that. Anyway, it should definitely be rejected. I rejected it with a custom message. It needs at least one more review.
You can always reject and edit ... :)
3:05 AM
@BhargavRao well it might work the other way round. But you know, I like to have a reason to give attention to a group of posts I otherwise might not come across :)
2 hours later…
@Zanna re your flag: do you have a list of other example handy, by chance?
great, thanks!
they reviewed this question but the only thing they did was upvote it
no worries
from the little digging I did it doesn't seem too bad, but definitely worth some friendly guidance.
we really could have better tools to monitor these things though :/
5:03 AM
there are a lot of other users routinely reviewing First Posts badly, even worse. I just happened to look at these :(
yeah. The tooling makes it super hard to keep track of. Not to mention it's relative enough that enforcing "proper" reviewing is hard. And then monitoring behavior after a discussion is very labor intensive. I wish there were more things that could be done about it.
overall reviews are still a net positive, even if lots of posts get passed wrongly...
@Seth yeah, it's really not easy... @EliahKagan was saying it would be better if FPs needed more than one "No Action Needed" to complete the review. I totally agree with that. But if they don't implement that FR, then better monitoring tools... plz!!
@Seth it's definitely better than nothing :D
that's actually a good and (theoretically) easy change to make. I wonder if it's been suggested on meta.
I found a very old post about it... I linked it here hmm
Jul 22 at 13:55, by Zanna
Q: Please require more reviewers on First Posts

RosinanteOn the one hand, I see very few posts in the review queue when I visit. On the other hand, I see a lot of pretty awful first posts sitting on the front page. This leads me to suspect that robo-reviewers are blowing through the queue. Given how empty the queue is, could you please increase the ...

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, body starts with title and ends in url, +8 more (891): faqssupplement.com/lean-boost-keto/ by larishnaritoins on askubuntu.com
5:17 AM
@EliahKagan Sorry for disappearing suddenly. It was already late and I went to sleep. I see Natty is OK now.
@BhargavRao Thanks :)
@Zanna Can you please post that as an answer on meta? I would help in "burninating" the tag.
@Zanna May I help?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching product name in body, +5 more (691): What is Just Keto Diet Pills in South Africa? by Potter Harry on askubuntu.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching product name in body, +5 more (691): What is Just Keto Diet Pills in South Africa? by Potter Harry on askubuntu.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, pattern-matching product name in body, +5 more (691): What is Just Keto Diet Pills in South Africa? by Potter Harry on askubuntu.com
5:35 AM
Smokey gone crazy?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, +5 more (593): www.healthdevils.com/supercut-keto/ by logukakueamu on askubuntu.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +7 more (792): usahealthdiet.com/ultra-fast-keto-boost/ by weliomorow on askubuntu.com
5:59 AM
@EliahKagan @BhargavRao Reported.
unclear, not enough details, also seems abandoned
6:26 AM
not no-repro, OP posted a self-answer
6:55 AM
@Zanna First posts take longer for me to review than any other review category. First posts are frequently full of spelling and grammatical errors, unclear and deliberately misleading such that it takes me a half hour just to clear out the underbrush sufficiently that I am able to read the question. There is no path to a clear understanding of the question, so I have to hack my way forward through a thicket of thorn bushes.
7:22 AM
@Kulfy I will do that... I'll put it on my to do list right now and try to do it by end of tomorrow
@Kulfy absolutely, I mean if you feel like doing that. Actually you have already helped me by offering as it's motivating me to get on with it
this should be done properly
everything about the whole page should ideally be checked and any beneficial action taken. Like
- anything else to fix on the question by editing?
- is the question (and any answers) very bad such that deleting it would be better than re-tagging it (the tag will help you keep track of the progress on that (so VTC instead of editing)
- are there any NAAs?
- can you cast any votes (I most often edit the question and all the answers and upvote stuff - actually I find lots of useful things this way)
every edit bumps the page, so when I edit one post on a page I look for any other edit I can do at the same time
rate limiting yourself has to be done
otherwise the front page is full of random old questions
Seth suggested a rate limit of 5 questions per hour for retagging
Because of all this, I like to do re-tags myself because it's too much work to push on people to do it carefully and if people don't do it carefully it's a bit of a missed opportunity imho
as for the tags to use, there are , , , , (should that be a synonym of ?). Sometimes, none of these are applicable for some reason and you have to think outside the box a bit
the specific file format(s) involved mostly have tags
those can be used
I've just noticed there's a tag which I thought I had already removed
but I can't have done as its contents go way back in time
here's the meta btw
Q: Should we take [pictures] and [images] out of the picture?

Sergiy KolodyazhnyyThere's images tag, which has as description: Questions about opening / editing / saving images using image-editing applications. And then there's pictures with no description. IMHO: As far as image-editing goes, we already have tags for image-processing and for specific applications li...

actually I see from my answer there that there were 476 posts with the images tag when I started working on it
there are now 323 which is not as bad as I thought, and only 1 unanswered (I usually start tag work on the unanswered page and try to reduce those first, downvoting all the bad zero score unanswered questions into the roomba, voting to close anything unanswerable, and only re-tagging the good ones that can stay open and unanswered or get an answer upvote to make them "answered" or be closed as dupes)
may also be useful for re-tagging
there are also tags for image viewing and processing apps like Imagemagick, EOG, GIMP etc
you can see why it's such a big job :)
7:48 AM
@Kulfy (with reference to the meta qestion) Are you sure that's only an AU issue and it's actually a bug? I can see the same with my profile in English SE: if post is selected, then it lets you expand (as per Dan's answer), if time is selected it doesn't. When you logout I believe it defaults to post and thus it's expandable. (cc @EliahKagan)
@pomsky Sorry for being ignorant. May be I somehow selected Time and wasn't aware of that.
@karel I also find First Posts the hardest and most labour intensive queue to review, and not just because the posts are often bad - in fact I think I struggle more with the good ones in some ways
(sorry for interrupting - also, going afk for some time now)
@Kulfy In case you have downvoted the answer previously, you can undo it now ;-)
Done :)
@Zanna Great.
7:54 AM
Let me know the questions since I don't know which filter you are using and how much progress you have done.
PS I once reported a bug on meta when I had accidentally touched the button to organise answers by date instead of by votes without realising there was such a button
Are you planning to burninate the and ?
@Kulfy In the tag page I'm working from the top of the Newest filter, but it doesn't really matter, you can work on any of them
@Zanna I feel like a stupid kid now.
@Zanna ok
@Kulfy Looks like was not in the meta, though was, and was destroyed. I am not sure whether "burninate" applies to my work. CMs can destroy tags, meaning they can remove it from all questions instantly without bumping them
the problem with that is the posts can end up lacking proper tags and there is no way to find them unless they actually end up
I call that burnination
because... it's destructive
7:59 AM
Yeah. kind of.
when we remove the tag from all posts, that tag will just get removed
I mean it will be deleted from the system
... in 24 hours
so it achieves the same thing, but at the expense of a lot of work, it results in a sort of thin slice of posts across the life of the site getting spruced up and attended to
@Kulfy yes :)
but maybe people use "burninate" for this too, since the tag is destroyed
@Kulfy lol looks a bit like my brother.
but you shouldn't feel stupid. I didn't even know there were different views in there
8:02 AM
Inconsistency in tag info?
well they are not the same
not all questions about images are about processing them
@Zanna That's what I actually meant.
@Zanna xD
in fact the issue we have is that the questions about images are about a very wide range of things
There seems to be thin line between those tags. (or am I wrong?)
so wide a range that it doesn't make sense for them to be collected together by a tag
@Kulfy some of them are similar to each other. Whoever wrote the excerpt for was probably thinking of image processing
but that excerpt does not reflect all the contents of the tag
when people ask if something should be done with a tag, I look at the questions in the tag
that's what I need to do before I answer your meta question :)
I gotta go post a letter
8:07 AM
@Zanna Makes sense
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad ns for domain in body, potentially bad keyword in body (294): Ubuntu Grub Menu error by Parcheam86 on askubuntu.com
@Natty tp
8:40 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, blacklisted website in body, body starts with title and ends in url, link at end of body, pattern-matching product name in body, +6 more (695): health2wealthclub.com/lean-boost-keto/ by felrihas3 on askubuntu.com
9:19 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +6 more (693): addsupplemnts.com/keto-vatru-south-africa/ by JimmyMead on askubuntu.com
9:42 AM
I've improved this LQP. (Read Editor's note below the post)
@Kulfy great job!
At some point I realised that when making a fully salvaging edit to the post like that, it is possibly better to click the edit button in the queue, not only because your edit actually fixes the post and so nobody need review it further, it also has the effect of marking flags on the post helpful
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +5 more (593): addsupplemnts.com/keto-vatru-south-africa/ by AnnHauk on askubuntu.com
Whereas if you edit outside the queue and then everyone votes looks ok, the flag gets marked disputed
Idk how flag stats are used globally, but if they bring attention to a post and it gets fixed, then that's a helpful flag
So should probably get marked as such
@Zanna I didn't know about that.
Yeah, obscure stuff
I totally get that sometimes you want others to review your change and agree or not that it actually fixed the post
Or anyway that's one reason I find it harder to click the edit button
9:56 AM
And I wasn't sure whether to add a note in post or edit summary. I added that in the post so that the comments which says it is for invited users only need not to be taken too seriously.
But clicking the edit button marks the flag helpful regardless of what the editor does (which is sometimes useless!)
Well I read about disputed flags on MSE but there wasn't any mention of such thing as far as I remember.
@Zanna indeed.
@Kulfy makes sense. Maybe adding another comment there would have been an equally good way. But the note is not a problem imo
Comments might be deleted for various reasons. That's why I "hard coded" that in the post :D
@Kulfy yeah, well disputed flags don't cause any problems for the users who cast them so it's not a problem if flags get marked disputed. But I feel that we should try to make the system work as intended where possible and there are like, badges for flags and counts, and stats on helpful flags per site etc are probably useful/interesting to some folks
10:01 AM
Yeah but SE should document them :/
@Kulfy yeah, I mean if those existing comments got deleted then your comment might not be needed, likewise the note, I guess
@Kulfy stuff like that appears in Shog9's annual posts on moderation on MSE I think
Search for "A year in moderation" there
But I think note is better since in future it may happen that users may question about the source of the article. So, I think its better to be "hard coded"
@Zanna I remember reading stuff like that on AU meta but didn't find anything like that.
@Kulfy oh yeah he does a local one. But yeah I'm just guessing that it has the particular figures I'm talking about, I haven't actually checked which I really should before sending you on a wild goose chase :(
@Kulfy sure.
Trying to figure out how to escape from disputed flags.
10:23 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching product name in body, pattern-matching product name in title, pattern-matching website in body, +3 more (494): Lean Boost Keto *https faqssupplement com/lean-boost-keto/* by asdghbnhuhgb on askubuntu.com
11:05 AM
@Kulfy Thanks!
not needed ("no longer needed") - the OP isn't asking about the dist-upgrade command in that question and, judging by the self-dupe, strongly seems not to have gotten an answer they would want to accept, so the accept nag is at best noise.
@Natty tp
11:49 AM
@Kulfy I had apparently done the same thing. I went to Unix & Linux (where I was logged in) as well as Ask Ubuntu in a private browsing window and saw that items in reputation could be expanded, thus "confirming" the bug. Thanks for pointing out that Post seems to be the default.
@pomsky Thanks!
@Kulfy The answer on the meta question should probably have something about how Post is the default. (Or I should possibly have credited @pomsky when I wrote my comment...)
1 hour later…
12:53 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad asn for hostname in body, potentially bad keyword in body (294): That way it can usually be to your thoughts by ecafco on askubuntu.com
1:05 PM
@Kulfy Nice. I think the comments there are now no longer needed.
this question seems to have a lot of comment-answers!
It should probably have answers. :)
Idk if it would be reasonable to edit the existing GIMP answer but if not then it should probably have another one for GIMP, which is indeed not lightweight... but which is extremely good at taking the screenshots in the first place. So in practice it's one of the easiest and fastest ways to take a screenshot and do the kinds of common raster edits that we do with screenshots.
But maybe the question itself is a duplicate of something (that is itself not too broad)?
that sounds like a new answer to me...
I am not aware of a target for it
I'm not sure why Imagemagick hung, but this question seems to be a very basic shell issue caused by a common misunderstanding
I'm not sure how to edit it, or if it should be closed as a dupe of something
I don't know about Imagemagick
@Zanna Yes. I think that question should just have another answer explaining the issue. Regarding if it's a dupe, I suspect it's kind of like that question, where it might ultimately be decided to e a dupe, but where it benefits from another answer (in that case, guiverc's) that might not be seen as answering the target question, so rushing to close it as a dupe may be inadvisable.
Do you want to post an answer?
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +9 more (990): healthcircle365.com/keto-10x/ by nancychaffin on askubuntu.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +9 more (990): healthcircle365.com/keto-10x/ by portujirti on askubuntu.com
@EliahKagan sure :)
1:39 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Url-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +9 more (990): healthcircle365.com/keto-10x/ by fotrelidru on askubuntu.com
1:55 PM
@Zanna Thanks. :)
@Zanna Is this accurate? I was going to post the following comment, and even did, but deleted it when I noticed that I might have been wrong about which manpage is correct and what command the OP is really running:
> That seems like an answer, so you might consider posting something like it as one. With that said, the manual page strongly appears to indicate that convert accepts multiple files as input.
> In manpage synopses, ellipses almost always indicate that multiple arguments are permitted, and In the manpage's synopsis, input file arguments are documented as input-file .... So if this really is not supported, this seems like a bug (in the documentation).
^^ For anyone skimming this thread--that's commentary of my own that I am not currently confident is true and which I've deleted from the main site for that reason, so it should most likely not be cited to support the position it articulates. :)
@EliahKagan I never noticed such thing exists
@EliahKagan They are gone.
@EliahKagan I thought that it does accept multiple input files
in the images tag I have seen many Imagemagick commands doing batch processing...
...so where's the documentation that I can use to support that?
Or your answer could just cover it, with or without links to documentation, and I (or whoever) could link to that in a reply comment.
I am working on my answer but I might have to leave it for a while :/
More than a day passed between when I started working on my most recently posted answer that I'd said sort of implied I would post and when I finished and posted it, so I feel like I can't really complain... :)
2:11 PM
if anyone else is interested in writing an answer to that question about why * will never expand to the filenames you want to have (unless they are already there, in which case the result will not be what you want anyway), in the meantime, please feel free!
2:59 PM
> In Unix shells, certain characters such as the asterisk (*) and question mark (?) automatically cause lists of filenames to be generated based on pattern matches. This feature is known as globbing. ImageMagick supports filename globbing for systems, such as Windows, that does not natively support it. For example, suppose you want to convert 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg, 4.jpg, and 5.jpg in your current directory to a GIF animation. You can conveniently refer to all of the JPEG files with this command:
> convert *.jpg images.gif
convert Screenshot* a.gif
This worked for me
Or you mean in output file?
@Natty tp
unclear. OP returned and posted a new question but no update on this question.
2 hours later…
5:09 PM
@Natty tp
5:55 PM
I think this should be reopened. I remember voting as too broad since it included things like security risks and forgot to comment that they should redact "broad" things.
2 hours later…
8:47 PM
@Natty tp

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