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3:54 AM
A while ago I obtained a copy of "TeX and METAFONT, New directions in Typesetting" and I only today realized that it still has the sheet to mail in if "you have an interest in participating in a TeX users' group"
Besides that it's just bizarre to read
The entire description of both systems is almost half the size of the TeXbook alone
And it uses SAIL's SUAI extended character set
There's a final section of the TeX part all about "Recent extensions to TeX", which is pretty interesting. The final extension it has says that "Control sequences of any length are now remembered in full; the seven-letter truncation mentioned in Chapter 2 no longer happens"
And of course the fonts (and the formatting of the whole book) are quite different
 
4:25 AM
Also, there was little discussion on "alternative TeX formats" the other day and I thought of another one that has somewhat widespread use. GNU's Texinfo
 
texinfo is not a tex format or based on TeX, despite the name
 
Starting at line 7977 there's some pretty cool parsing code
 
4:44 AM
@texdr.aft Ah I see, I wasn't aware of that....
anyway I've looked at the "TeX and METAFONT: New Directions in Typesetting" book in a library too... the second part of it is the TeXbook from before it was called the TeXbook :-)
And I think it's actually more concise and less sprawling than the TeXbook...
well maybe "sprawling" isn't the word... but it seems a bit more coherent / tied together. It's interesting that even as TeX was completely rewritten, the manual didn't change all that much, though the TeXbook does seem to have been stuffed with quite a few double-dangerous-bend sections to cope with the changes
Anyway one thing I remember noticing — and maybe this is still true in the TeXbook too — is that by far the largest chapter was the one titled "Fine points of mathematical typesetting", despite the entire chapter being in a smaller font. I think it shows how much DEK really loves good typography.
 
 
3 hours later…
7:29 AM
$ kpsewhich texinfo
/usr/local/texlive/2019/texmf-dist/tex/texinfo/texinfo.tex
 
8:03 AM
Its syntax is somewhat based on Scribe (the at signs and such)
 
@ShreevatsaR texinfo is indeed based on TeX. AFAIK, it's just a collection of TeX macros.
Written originally by Richard Stallman for the GNU project. But that was a long time ago.
 
Funnily enough, it's based on TeX and the info utility
 
@texdr.aft Based on info in what sense? info is just a (standalone) reader for texinfo, as far as I know.
People are more likely to use Emacs to read info documentation, I think.
Well, those that do read info. It's not exactly caught on.
 
It explains info but not texinfo or TeX
 
@PauloCereda I visited some our your sailors Friday. ^^^
 
8:13 AM
info is pretty closely tied to emacs
Well, that document does actually mention TeX alone
 
@texdr.aft There is a standalone info viewer too, but I don't use it.
@FaheemMitha If you're an emacs user, it's by far the most convenient way to read emacs and elisp docs.
@daleif Everything is slanted there. Why isn't the water sloshing over the dock?
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen huh?
 
@daleif Sorry, I should stop trying to be funny on a Monday morning. It's just that the water doesn't seem horisontal, and the masts not vertical. I blame the photographer. ;-)
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen That's what I meant by info above. I'm not sure what @texdr.aft meant by it.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen So do I. I actually had the sun in my eyes up on the right.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen @PauloCereda there was also a ship from Mexico that was much bigger than the Brazil one ;-)
 
8:29 AM
TeX hasn't actually seen a lot of uptake outside of its usual domain. texinfo is probably the exception.
Though no doubt people will now pop up to tell me about all those other projects I've never heard of.
I was just talking to one of the SILE developers on the U&L chat. He's a high rep user there.
It seems they are moving forward, and it sounds like they have better traction that it would seem looking at the project page. I imagine it's hard uphill work. Typesetting is no picnic as software projects go.
It would be good for TeX to have some competition. And it's good for users to have choices.
Currently it's TeX or something horrible. I've heard talk about SCRIBE. I wonder if that is still around.
 
@daleif Aarhus, I presume.
 
@FaheemMitha There's TROFF
 
Doesn't sounds like it's around any more - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribe_(markup_language)
@texdr.aft You mean Groff? Is that really competition? I know you can do math in it. After a fashion.
 
@FaheemMitha It's used for manpages, but really nothing else. (The K&R book was typeset in it but this was in the '80s, possibly before there was a TeX distribution for Unix)
 
@texdr.aft I imagine other people might use it. But probably not many.
For writing maths, even.
But in most areas the TeX juggernaut is hard to compete with.
 
8:38 AM
@FaheemMitha It's not that long since I saw a typesetting system based on troff. It looked quite advanced. I'll see if I can unearth the reference …
 
Knuth actually quoted the paper where Kernighan introduced eqn in the TeXbook so there may have been some influence on TeX
here's a guide to it which has many examples: zen89632.zen.co.uk/Groff/Eqn/eqnguide.pdf
the command hphantom is interesting to see
Actually redact that. It might be a recent extension specific to GROFF
but the use of left and right for delimiters may have been inspired by eqn's doing the same
 
9:00 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I think they came from Norway (don't know which town they visited). There was a Russian pirate ship that got damaged on their way from Norway, so they were making a new huge part on the dock with a chainsaw.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen So, extensions of Troff/Groff?
It's a bit confusing. When they write troff, it seems they are talking about their troff variant.
 
@FaheemMitha That's what it seems to say. All I know is what you can find on the page I pointed to. I haven't bothered to look closer.
 
10:07 AM
is [varwidth] supposed to limit page size?
it seems to be cutting my very long standalone diagrams in half
 
10:23 AM
i thought it ewas supposed to do the opposite
 
@tjt263 I think an MWE is needed. And maybe you should post a question on the main site.
 
@daleif YAY
@daleif ooh los barcos son mas grandes
 
10:43 AM
it's a simple question
 
@tjt263 There are questions about it, let me find one.
12
Q: standalone: varwidth option limits output width?

JanekIt seems, that the varwidth option for the standalone class limits the output width. The problem is produced in the following example: \documentclass[10pt,crop,varwidth]{standalone} \usepackage{tikz} \begin{document}% \begin{tikzpicture} \pgfsetlinewidth{0.3cm} \path[draw=red] (0,0) -- (...

 
 
2 hours later…
12:51 PM
@DavidCarlisle quack
 
yo'
1:11 PM
hi @PauloCereda
 
1:37 PM
@tjt263 varwidth is a minipage, it affects line breaking but doesn't scale images
Jul 23 at 12:12, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda dinner
 
@texdr.aft -- That book was published long before there were any alternative formats. Without checking. I believe it describes TeX78, which, if you read carefully, you will find to be rather different from the present "basic" TeX, which is an 8-bit enhancement of TeX82. There was an even earlier TeX manual, which I know to be dealing with TeX78. A version was published by the American Math Society; the first fully printed version was a Stanford Computer Science report.
@daleif -- Tall ships races or visits are always exciting. I'm jealous.
 
@PauloCereda Have you seen this? patoline.org
 
1:53 PM
@barbarabeeton Right: I was referring to the discussion about TeX by Topic and Lollipop from two days ago. Also, I recall you mentioning the earlier manual elsewhere on this forum, but I haven't had any luck finding it; I think I'll try again today.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- Masts are not always vertical. Take a look at a clipper rig -- masts are definitely raked. The vessels look like they're going fast even when they're tied up at a pier. Just like traditional Chesapeake Bay workboats.
 
@barbarabeeton I know; but that is most evident when you see the ship from the side. At the viewing angle in this case, that should hardly be noticable, if at all.
 
@texdr.aft -- The very first manual will slip easily into a pocket, and has a light yellow cover with green printing. The print run wasn't large, so I think finding a copy won't be easy.
 
@AlanMunn the most important step in software development has been done: a nice looking logo with a bird ;-)
user image
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@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- Maybe the photo was taken from a floating dock, which can be somewhat unsteady when rocked by waves or overloaded by unruly visitors.
 
1:57 PM
@barbarabeeton Thank you for this info
 
if one can't get palindromes ^^^
 
@yo' hey Tom! :)
@AlanMunn woooo
 
@barbarabeeton @daleif had the sun in his eyes (he said so himself). That is sufficient explanation. And in any case, I have taken gazoodles of crooked photographs myself.
 
@AlanMunn you know that Daffy Duck is known as Patolino in Portuguese, right? :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes. And Big Bird is Gansolino.
 
1:59 PM
@UlrikeFischer and the main product emanating from the outflow end of said bird's alimentary canal?
 
@AlanMunn I think Big Bird is Garibaldo...
 
@texdr.aft -- TeX was implemented for Unix quite early on, but K&R were at Bell Labs, home of Troff et al. TeX didn't make inroads there until somewhat later.
 
yo'
@PauloCereda how are you doing?
 
@AlanMunn Gansolino is the goose that works in the old duck lady farm...
 
@PauloCereda Hmm.. Not what I was told. Maybe my information source is faulty.
 
2:01 PM
@yo' in a hurry, but fine. :) And you, pal? :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda still sort-of shocked from last week. And planning to send my CVs around
 
@barbarabeeton Ah that makes sense. I suppose at the time *ROFF was completely sufficient for their purposes.
 
@yo' oh it takes a while to fully recover, but thankfully you are doing great. Hopefully the insurance can cover the damage. Regarding the CV spreading procedure, I am in the same page. :)
 
yo'
@PauloCereda remember the damage is just money and comfort...
 
@yo' oh
 
2:26 PM
@barbarabeeton ^^^ from the Russian ship – Mir.
 
user image
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I even found a Norwegian ship that is 100 years older than me.
@egreg impressive
 
@daleif -- I'm glad that there has been care to keep these magnificent relics in good working condition. Great photos. Thanks.
 
@barbarabeeton See if you can access this URL: stiften.dk/aarhus/… , from our local paper, it has a lot of cool images.
 
@egreg ooh
 
2:36 PM
Did marmot decide to just change their username or is their plan still to delete their profile?
 
@daleif @barbarabeeton I can get it in Norway, so you can probably get it too. The annoying popup at the start is just one of those things saying we use cookies, got any problem with that?
 
@daleif I meant to ask. Your profile says you are the maintainer of memoir. That's an alternative to KOMA, right?
 
@StrongBad I think he's taken your advice to heart, in the meta question, and is going to keep the profile but not participate once he's exhausted his rep with bounties.
 
Coconut cake!
And now:
Today I feel idioter than usual
:)
 
@AlanMunn well that is better than nothing. So many knowledgeable and seemingly nice people are leaving (or no longer answering), but there still seems to be a critical mass.
 
2:45 PM
What would happen to the reputation of high users if I decide to delete my profile?
ooh
 
@StrongBad Honestly, I'm really not worried about the state of the site. We have many long time users who seem unlikely to leave.
@PauloCereda Um disastre!
 
@AlanMunn Are you saying you are not going to leave in a tiff? :-)
 
@AlanMunn <3
 
@FaheemMitha I'm sure @DavidCarlisle will manage to offend me one of these days and I'll storm off. But that's all up to him.
 
@PauloCereda who would care about reputation in such a case?
 
2:47 PM
@StrongBad Perhaps they realised that they were spending too much time on TeX SE, and decided to remove from themselves from temptation, and the seductive allure of TeX.
@AlanMunn Are you saying he hasn't been mean to you yet? Unaccountable oversight.
 
@AlanMunn he's far too British to offend anyone
 
@PauloCereda I think you have the wrong country there.
 
@FaheemMitha :)
 
@PauloCereda I think you misread @UlrikeFischer 's compliment there...
 
The British, in my opinion (speaking first hand) have elevated rudeness to an art form.
 
2:49 PM
@AlanMunn oh oopsie
@UlrikeFischer sorry, I am idioter today :)
 
I don't mean anyone here (I hasten to add).
 
@UlrikeFischer <3
 
@FaheemMitha Well, Winston Churchill was certainly a master at it.
 
@UlrikeFischer fixed. <3
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen For example.
 
2:50 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen blame the colonies? :)
 
@FaheemMitha they can be rude, but they still feel guilt. As an American I managed to bully my fair share of coworkers and I only had to put up with being called a yank.
 
@AlanMunn I am the only real linguist in this chat.
 
And English people are very tall
@DavidCarlisle OOH IT'S ON
 
@DavidCarlisle Well you're certainly not rational.
 
2:53 PM
@FaheemMitha It is more of an alternative to book/report.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen If you want an insult delivered with panache, call for Rowan Atkinson.
 
@AlanMunn I do wonder sometimes, if he's imaginary?
 
@daleif One class?
 
@AlanMunn ooh integers
@FaheemMitha wibble :)
 
2:54 PM
@FaheemMitha yes, but it can emulate the look of article (though still based on using chapter as the top level)'
 
And Chris Barrie is quite good at it too, actually.
 
@AlanMunn Nor transcendental.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh pie
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen On the internet, nobody knows you're complex.
2
 
@daleif I see. Do you have to do a lot of maintenance?
 
2:56 PM
@AlanMunn woof * i
 
@FaheemMitha No, I mostly do bug fixes, I'm currently not adding stuff to it.
 
@daleif I see. So not too time consuming, then.
 
@daleif holy cow, there's anything else to add to memoir? The class is already awesome. :)
 
@PauloCereda Well the user interface can be improved. There are stuff that I'd like to remove. And the manual really need a cleanup.
@FaheemMitha Not really. Why?
 
@daleif :)
 
2:59 PM
@daleif Just wonder how people find the time, really.
 
@FaheemMitha By giving up tex.se?
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Is that an option?
 
@FaheemMitha Apparently.
 
@AlanMunn I think my linguistic skills are mostly analogous to Conway's surreal numbers
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Ah, yes. Our lamented departed, um, rodent friend.
 
3:01 PM
@FaheemMitha ask David, Joseph etc, I have no idea how they find the time. Since we use memoir is most of our stuff, I can maintain it during work hours.
 
@PauloCereda there are always new bugs that can be added
 
@daleif Oh, you use it? Interesting.
 
@FaheemMitha I only think I use, say, article, for MWEs
 
@daleif Yes, I wonder that too.
@daleif I should check out memoir some time. I mostly use KOMA.
I like flexible. KOMA is nothing if not flexible.
 
@FaheemMitha KOMA can probably do much more, I just disliked the manual back in the day.
Nowadays I hardly read the manual as I have the soruce on speed dail in Emacs
 
3:04 PM
@daleif People seem to dislike the manual. I don't know why.
I quite like it. It's very detailed, and has examples too.
@daleif Huh? The source of what?
 
@FaheemMitha the class
 
@daleif Memoir, you mean?
 
Yes
 
Oh. Sorry, I was confused. For a moment I thought you meant KOMA.
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
3:06 PM
@daleif Yes, that's what led me to memoir too. I have a book draft using it and the thesis class I maintain is based on it too. Memoir made making the class relatively simple.
 
@daleif Nah I used KOMA in the early days. At least from my usage, it's not as straightfoward as memoir.
 
@FaheemMitha possibly because it's unspeakably ugly, nonsensical margins, etc
 
@AlanMunn +1 I implemented ABNT's requirements in less than 10 lines in memoir.
@DavidCarlisle LOL
 
@DavidCarlisle You mean the KOMA manual?
@PauloCereda Associação Brasileira de Normas Técnicas?
 
If a class's manual is supposed to also be a showcase of the class, it isn't a very good first impression
 
3:09 PM
@texdr.aft So you don't like it either?
 
@FaheemMitha yes, the very same. :)
 
@FaheemMitha Awful Brazilian Non-sensical Torture Typography
 
@FaheemMitha Honestly I haven't tried it, but that's just because I haven't found a reason to. But I have glanced at the manual.
 
@AlanMunn THANK YOU
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Hmmmmph. You're confusing the meanings of "linguist" and "polyglot".
 
3:12 PM
@texdr.aft Still not sure what's wrong with the manual. Let me take another look.
 
@barbarabeeton Well he's also confusing the meanings of "polyglot" and "Google", so this is nothing new. :)
 
Nope. Looks good to me. Large and bright, with lots of pretty colors.
I'm a sucker for the shiny.
 
@FaheemMitha That's perfectly fine. The main "problem" (of course this is all subjective) for me at least is that darn right margin
And the header being filled with a solid color.
 
@texdr.aft I guess there isn't really a right margin. Is that what is upsetting you?
I didn't notice anything till you pointed it out.
@texdr.aft I'm fine with that.
 
@FaheemMitha Yes (but I'm not actually upset)
 
3:18 PM
Having the page header stand out like that is actually useful. Helps keep one oriented.
But the manual's layout doesn't have much to do with KOMA itself. Aside from presumably being written in it.
 
@FaheemMitha Alright. That's fine.
There's also the bottom margin... I appreciate @DavidCarlisle's calling the margins "nonsensical"
 
@texdr.aft You don't have to use those margins, you know. I guess he's tried to maximize his use of space. Sometimes I do that too. Though I don't shrink the right margin to zero.
Props to Markus Kohm for bucking the margin mafia.
 
@FaheemMitha Well, to be fair, it is not zero, but it is very, very narrow. About as narrow as it can be, I think without seriously hurting readability. Doubling it would not harm, I think.
 
I'm all for going against tradition, and I appreciate the manual. In this case, though, I don't think the particular choices of style really work; once again, this is subjective, and the appearance of a manual would not stop me from using what it describes.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen It almost looks like incorrect scaling of some kind (i.e. the page content is larger than the page size).
 
@texdr.aft Only because it is so unconventional, but yes.
 
3:29 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes -- I didn't mean to imply that what I said was actually the case, sorry.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen the margins has been optimized to allow working on a document with the manual at the side on a screen.
 
@UlrikeFischer I hadn't even considered that; thank you for the perspective. (But it raises the question of what happens in the case that the manual should be on the other side)
 
@FaheemMitha I don't care about the margins, but my experience with the KOMA manual is that I'm never able to find out how to do anything using it.
 
@AlanMunn Oh? I've actually found it quite well designed and flexible. Though I mostly use scrlttr2.
By well designed and flexible, I mean KOMA. And I think the manual is good, too. Though I have not used it much.
And I probably shouldn't use the term KOMA. Apparently the correct term is KOMAScript.
The author himself pointed that out in an email. He was quite severe, and I felt intimidated.
 
@FaheemMitha Of course this is just my personal experience, but I remember years ago when I was answering questions on the site to learn new things, I quickly gave up on answering KOMA questions, since (unlike most other documentation) I could rarely find what I needed in the docs.
@FaheemMitha And my experience with the memoir documentation is quite the opposite.
 
3:42 PM
@AlanMunn I have difficulties too. Quite often the question I have are not answered and then I start to look in the code. E.g. there are lots of commands to change the format of a chapter, but it is not clear which one is suitable to insert some typesetting material.
 
@AlanMunn I see. Perhaps the manual has improved?
Or perhaps I have undemanding needs.
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, exactly those sorts of issues. And if you have problems, I pity the poor regular user. :)
 
@UlrikeFischer File a bug report (or reports)?
I found the exchange. I wrote to him about tex.stackexchange.com/q/477763/3406
 
@AlanMunn well regular users probably don't consider the questions I have to answer ;-). But yes sometimes I wish there were a manual like interface3 for the koma classes. Simply a long list with clear details ...
 
4:07 PM
@UlrikeFischer oh no
@UlrikeFischer I cannot imagine what's a difficult situation for you. :)
 
@egreg How do you display an image in the chat room?
 
@AndréC Click on the “upload…” button.
 
@egreg Where is this button located?
 
@AndréC Next to the input box
 
@egreg Oh, yeah, where were my eyes?
 
4:22 PM
After watching Endgame, I am quite surprised to find out Scarlett Johansson is left handed! :)
 
4:49 PM
@PauloCereda This seems to imply you have expectations about the handedness of celebrities...
 
@AlanMunn No, I just saw her writing during the movies. :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes, but to be surprised, you need expectations no? #linguistconcerns
 
@AlanMunn ooh
 
5:12 PM
@AlanMunn: I think opensource is doomed. I have the impression POTUS will sue the FSF for using gcc -Wall...
/nerd jokes
 
5:29 PM
@barbarabeeton ^^ :)
 
@CarLaTeX oh
 
5:45 PM
@PauloCereda Also this one is very nice
 
@egreg ooh :)
 
user image
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@PauloCereda -- If that's a bookstore, there will be two reactions from patrons: exasperation (and possible cessation of exploring) or curiosity and an urge to turn all those books spine-side out. Not sure what I would do; probably depends on whether or not I'm in a hurry.
 
@barbarabeeton I can relate to these reactions. :) I have some sort of OCD when organizing books. :)
Python programming
 
6:04 PM
Since TeX does kerning (for example) automatically, is it always correct? Does correct kerning depend on the language at all?
 
@FaheemMitha it's more on font metrics, I guess... and there are some adjustments people do occasionally, I guess...
 
@FaheemMitha There are some language dependent conventions (French, for example, likes some space before certain punctuation marks).
 
@AlanMunn Are those encoded in font information? I don't see any way TeX could know about them.
Though come to think of it, the fonts are going to be Roman either way.
 
@FaheemMitha -- Kerning basically depends on what's specified in the font. Some fonts have better kerning specs than others, and one situation that's often not handled well is the juxtaposition of a lowercase letter followed by a cap.
 
@FaheemMitha \usepackage[french]{babel}
 
6:07 PM
@AlanMunn Oh. Does that contain kerning information?
 
@FaheemMitha Well to the extent that the spacing of punctuation can be considered kerning, yes.
 
@AlanMunn I see.
@barbarabeeton So the font family can encode kerning information?
As far as I can tell, TeX handles kerning for my (English) text quite well, but perhaps that's not the most demanding test.
 
@FaheemMitha it's purely a function of the font tex never inserts any inter-letter kerns itself
 
@DavidCarlisle I see.
I guess the same thing applies for ligatures?
 
@FaheemMitha -- Depends on the font you're using. Knuth's kerning info for CM is generally pretty good, except for the situation I mentioned, so if you're using CM for an English document, the resulting page should appear as a uniform gray. Of course, line-breaking consistency also affects that.
 
6:13 PM
@FaheemMitha yes, although xetex (and especially luatex) can add additional ligatures eg traditional tex ones like --- even if they are not specified in the font
 
@DavidCarlisle How does it know whether to do so?
@barbarabeeton I don't follow. Uniform gray?
 
@FaheemMitha specified at font loading time (fontspec does it by default for all fonts)
 
@DavidCarlisle So there are some standard ligatures, which you can turn off?
 
@FaheemMitha the point of kerning is to avoid large white gaps so give the appearance of a uniform grey page not black and white stripes if you look at the page without focussing on the letters
 
@DavidCarlisle You mean like rivers (is that the right term)?
 
6:17 PM
@FaheemMitha -- Hold a page filled with text that uses a single font at a distance where you can't read it, and look for dark or light blotches. If the font has been well designed, with good kerning and line breaks, there won't be any blotches. Uniform gray.
 
@barbarabeeton Yes, I see.
 
@FaheemMitha yes although that I think is generally applied to inter-word spacing not inter-letter (and it's much harder to solve) kerning is just looking at local issues like Vo needing a bit of negative space
 
@DavidCarlisle Ok.
 
@DavidCarlisle -- That's usually more a function of line breaking. Kerning is a second-order effect.
 
 
1 hour later…
7:48 PM
@FaheemMitha In addition to the example by @AlanMunn, let me give you one from Norwegian: The word hoffintriger is a composite word with the two parts hoff (meaning (royal) court) and intriger (meaning intrigues). In this case it would be inappropriate to use the usual ffi ligature. Instead the word should be typeset using the ff ligature followed by the letter i. The Norwegian babel package has a mechanism for achieving this.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh royal stuff
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Interesting.
 
On the other hand, we really need a ligature for fj, similar to the fi one, for Norwegian words fjord and fjell (fjord and mountain). But few fonts include this ligature, perhaps because the fj combination is rare in major languages.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh the Fjord Motor Company
5 hours ago, by Paulo Cereda
Today I feel idioter than usual
<3
 
@PauloCereda fjollete, perhaps? Another use for the fj ligature.
 
7:53 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh :)
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen You mean that the fonts don't include this ligature?
And do people actually care about ligatures? Just wondering. Clearly some do.
 
@FaheemMitha might be of interest: ctan.org/pkg/selnolig
 
@FaheemMitha Exactly. I don't know how common the lack is, though.
 
Mico also gave a talk about it in TUG2018
 
@FaheemMitha In Norwegian, we have separate letters that arose as ligatures. Well, at least one: æ was an ae ligature originally. (I think one can debate whether ø was an oe ligature, or å was an aa ligature. I am not strong on the history of writing.)
 
8:00 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, I recognize the æ. I've seen it around. It's not common in English, though.
 
@FaheemMitha The particular reason behind the fi and fj ligature is that in many fonts, the top of the f would run into the dot over the i or j, unless you push the letters apart, which creates a visible space. Some fonts are designed so that this is not a problem, and those fonts may well do without those ligatures.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I think ligatures look cool, personally.
 
@FaheemMitha Indeed, some decorative fonts may have many unusual ligatures for that reason.
 
@PauloCereda Ooh, LuaLaTeX.
Sorry, it's catching.
 
@FaheemMitha You have a lot of catching up to do …
Mar 29 at 14:59, by Paulo Cereda
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh the counter
 
8:14 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Definitely not a competition.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:20 PM
Good evening friends.
 
@Sigur Hello, it's quite quiet in here I think.
 
What is the name of the font family used by newtxtext? I mean, what should I use in \fontfamily{} to have the same as the package?
@AlanMunn, hello.
 
@Sigur Hi, looking at the package, it seems to be ntxtlf.
 
@AlanMunn, thanks. I'll take a look.
 

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