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12:09 AM
Hello guys!!
I want your help to think about a solution regarding overlapping of text in a graph:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=1.15}

\begin{document}

\begin{center}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\begin{axis} [
axis on top,
axis lines = center,
xticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
yticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
xlabel = $x$,
ylabel = $y$,
ymin=-1.55,
ymax=2,
xmin=-2,
xmax=3,
x=2cm,
xtick={-2,-1.09,-1,0,1,2,2.16,3},
xticklabels={$-2$,$\alpha_2$,$-1$,$0$,$1$,$2$,$\alpha_1$,$3$},
legend pos=outer north east,
legend style={cells={align=left}},
I do not want to decrease the font size, nor increase the width of x-axis (I would prefer to set it with the default value instead of x=2cm)
Also, I do not want to increase the scale of the graph
Under this conditions, can you imagine an alternative? Thanks!!
P.S. Regarding the manual set of intersections points, I tried to use intersections library and name path within the two plots, but the only point of intersection that I get is the first one (marked in red). The other one I could not get it. I mention this if you are wondering why I am using approximate coordinates :P
P.S.2. I also do not want to delete the label -1 of x-axis
 
 
4 hours later…
4:13 AM
@barbarabeeton Where do I report bugs in amsmath? Neither CTAN nor the official website have that information.
 
4:39 AM
@manooooh You could place the alpha-label above of the x-axis.
 
@TeXnician good idea! How can we do that? If I write something like node[above] {$\alpha_2$} then there is not the same space between the alpha-label and x-axis, and the tick labels and x-axis. It is a good idea, but I would like to get a proper space. I hope you understand me
 
5:21 AM
You draw the dashed lines explicitly so you can do
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=1.15}

\begin{document}

\begin{center}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\begin{axis} [
axis on top,
axis lines = center,
xticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
yticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
xlabel = $x$,
ylabel = $y$,
ymin=-1.55,
ymax=2,
xmin=-2,
xmax=3,
x=2cm,
xtick={-2,-1,0,1,2,3},
xticklabels={$-2$,$-1$,$0$,$1$,$2$,$3$},
legend pos=outer north east,
Of course, you can decrease the font size of the alphas.
 
@marmot hello marmot!! <3. Thanks for your answer! However, the problem is that the font size of the alhpa-labels. I want them to be the same as the tick labels font size i.e. font=\tiny, and if I add it as a parameter of node we get a non align alpha-labels wrt the axis labels
 
If I use
\draw[gray,dashed] (2.16,0.84) -- (2.16,0) node[below,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_1$};
\draw[gray,dashed] (-1.09,-0.88) -- (-1.09,0) node[above,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_2$};
I get aligned alphas.
 
@marmot I do not get aligned alphas. I get the above output ^^^^^^ and the same with alpha_2 (if there would be axis labels above the x-axis line, not below like our graph)
 
@manooooh
\draw[gray,dashed] (2.16,0.84) -- (2.16,0) node[below=3pt,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_1$};
\draw[gray,dashed] (-1.09,-0.88) -- (-1.09,0) node[above=3pt,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_2$};
 
@marmot sorry but not 3pt. If we use the default TikZ alignment i.e. we use xtick={-2,-1.09,-1,0,1,2,2.16,3} and xticklabels={$-2$,$\alpha_2$,$-1$,$0$,$1$,$2$,$\alpha_1$,$3$} we get alpha_1 aligned to the top of the number, not below, so there has to be something like 2pt (<3pt for sure)
@marmot also, the line that denotes the position of the number (here alpha_1 and alpha_2) is not drawn (take a look at the vertical line above of 2, 1, 3, etc.)
I am very detail... sorry :c
 
5:39 AM
@manooooh You can use xticklabel cs but I do not know which output you are after. In any case, I do not know a magical way to avoid overlap, nor do I even personally think one should align them with the ticks. They should IMHO just sit where the dashed line ends.
 
@marmot why? I have calculated the values of alpha_1 and alpha_2 using approximation methods, so we can replace its labels by a number with a lot of decimal digits... Hence those labels are indeed part of the axis ticks labels, as 2, -1, etc.
But I respect your position and I understand it
 
@manooooh This is just my personal opinion. Also you could try
\draw[gray,dashed] (2.16,0.84) -- (2.16,0);
\draw[very thin] (2.16,2pt) -- (2.16,-2pt) node[below,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_1$};
\draw[gray,dashed] (-1.09,-0.88) -- (-1.09,0);
\draw[very thin] (-1.09,-2pt) -- (-1.09,2pt) node[above,black,font=\tiny]{$\alpha_2$};
 
@marmot now it is perfect (at least for me), thanks!
Have you deduced the values mathematically or have you been trying by trial and error?
We are 5 animals in chat (counting the 2 ducklings that Ulrike has) <3
@marmot also, do you know how to not clip the graph but not using approximate values such as ymin=-1.55 (it must be -1.5 but it would cut the blue plot a little)? If I try clip=false I get a very large plot!!
I do not know why this happens, if we are restricting the plot using ymin and ymax
 
5:56 AM
@manooooh It cuts the plot because the line has a finite width. What is wrong with 1.55?
 
@marmot ok. This is wrong:
If we use ymin=-1.5 then we get a cut plot, as you mention
But if we also set clip=false, I get the proper output but the plot becomes gigant
 
@manooooh If you know the y units, it is rather easy:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}

\usepackage{pgfplots}
\pgfplotsset{compat=1.15}

\begin{document}

\begin{center}
\begin{tikzpicture}
\pgfmathsetmacro{\mydy}{0.2/1cm}
\begin{axis} [
axis on top,
axis lines = center,
xticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
yticklabel style = {font=\tiny},
xlabel = $x$,
ylabel = $y$,
ymin=-1.5-\mydy,
ymax=2,
xmin=-2,
xmax=3,
x=2cm,y=2cm,
xtick={-2,-1,0,1,2,3},
xticklabels={$-2$,$-1$,$0$,$1$,$2$,$3$},
 
@marmot oh, awesome!! (Perhaps the new output is a bit bigger than the original but that's fine). Your idea is to delete the excess space and aplying it to ymin, right?
 
6:12 AM
@manooooh The idea is to add the negative of the line width, \mydy to ymin. \pgfmathsetmacro{\mydy}{0.2/1cm} converts is to y units. If we do not know what the y unit is, this won't work. That's why I set y=2cm. If you set y smaller, you need to decrease 1cm in the above formula accordingly, e.g. for y=1.6cm you will need \pgfmathsetmacro{\mydy}{0.2/0.8cm}.
 
Good approach
 
6:44 AM
@HenriMenke the latex bug tracker (that is github issue at github.com/latex3/latex2e/issues ) (@barbarabeeton)
 
7:16 AM
@Kurt done!
 
@DavidCarlisle did you see the newest message on luatex-dev?
 
7:51 AM
@UlrikeFischer no, will look..
@UlrikeFischer hmm
 
@DavidCarlisle hmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
8:11 AM
@DavidCarlisle Have fun with it :) github.com/latex3/latex2e/issues/149
 
@HenriMenke how did that come up now, or has it being bothering you for years? (@egreg may have a view as well) of course if we do change I'd have to consider if I want to use luatex's direct control over cramped style if using luatex
 
@DavidCarlisle I actually only noticed today, because I was writing up some notes and this came up
and I though the $\sigma'$ looks weird.
 
@HenriMenke one possibility would be to just fix it in mathtools (@daleif) which already defines a cramped mechanism using the same \radical trick.
 
9:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle @HenriMenke Already seen and commented. The proposed fix would not be good.
 
9:35 AM
@egreg yes, mathtools already offers cramped \ *lap commands, it could probably offer a cramped substack
 
@DavidCarlisle And changing \substack to always be cramped would affect existing documents.
 
@egreg always a worry (and not everyone likes my dontchangespacingifyouwantcompatibilityandtheexistingsubscriptisnotcramped options to amsmath
2
 
@DavidCarlisle It looks too German
 
@egreg now I'm hurt ;-(((. What have you against german looks?
 
9:50 AM
@UlrikeFischer Ihavenothingagainstgermanlookingoptionnamesbuttheyareabitdifficulttoread
3
 
@egreg butasweknowyouprefertoreadtheminsansserif
3
 
@egreg egregdoesnotlikeoptionsdifficulttoread
5
 
10:02 AM
YAY GERMAN COMMENTS
 
@PauloCereda what are those strange characters you have between Y and G and between N and C ?
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh blank spaces... I borrowed them from some wacky bloke called Turing who insisted to mark those thingies on a tape...
 
@DavidCarlisle @egreg @HenriMenke similar to this?
\newenvironment{crampedsubarray}[1]{%
\vcenter\bgroup
\Let@ \restore@math@cr \default@tag
\baselineskip\fontdimen10 \scriptfont\tw@
\advance\baselineskip\fontdimen12 \scriptfont\tw@
\lineskip\thr@@\fontdimen8 \scriptfont\thr@@
\lineskiplimit\lineskip
\ialign\bgroup\ifx c#1\hfil\fi
$\m@th\scriptstyle\kern-\nulldelimiterspace\radical\z@{##}$\hfil\crcr
}{%
\crcr\egroup\egroup
}
\newcommand{\crampedsubstack}[1]{\crampedsubarray{c}#1\endcrampedsubarray}
 
@daleif something like that yes, is that existing code from somewhere or did you just make it here?
 
@egreg I can see Morten used \nulldelimiterspace=\z@\radical\z@ in mathtools, why is the \kern- version safer?
@DavidCarlisle just copied from amsmath and added Henri and egregs code.
 
10:11 AM
@daleif it just makes that hidden math use hide the delimiter space rather than any nested uses
 
@daleif Spacing might change inside the argument.
 
I haven't looked in mathtools to see if there is something that can be reused.
Would it be safe to make \substack into a starred macro? in order to get a simpler interface than \crampedsubstack?
Mathtools seems to be mainly using
\def\MT_cramped_internal:Nn #1#2{
\sbox\z@{$\m@th#1\nulldelimiterspace=\z@\radical\z@{#2}$}
\ifx#1\displaystyle
\dimen@=\fontdimen8\textfont3
\advance\dimen@ .25\fontdimen5\textfont2
\else
\dimen@=1.25\fontdimen8
\ifx#1\textstyle\textfont
\else
\ifx#1\scriptstyle
\scriptfont
\else
\scriptscriptfont
\fi
\fi
3
\fi
\advance\dimen@-\ht\z@ \ht\z@=-\dimen@
\box\z@
}
Called from say
\providecommand*\cramped[1][\@empty]{
\ifx\@empty#1\@empty
\expandafter \mathpalette \expandafter \MT_cramped_internal:Nn
\else
\expandafter \MT_cramped_internal:Nn \expandafter #1
\fi
}
 
@daleif possibly although mathtools uses \crampedrlap etc so a cramped.. name is consistent I think
 
@DavidCarlisle plus these overloaded * commands often gets confusing, users does not know what the difference is.
 
@daleif not sure I understood which overload you mean? (I can understand users get confused:-)
 
10:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle adding extra functionality to macros by making starred, plussed etc versions. Sometimes it makes sense, other times it can get confusing.
For example I use \For at lot. It is defined as \qquad\text{#1}, but the starred version only used \quad. Here the star makes sense. But not sure a mathtools user would associate \substack* with a cramped version (especially because most users does not know what cramped is)
 
10:49 AM
What does the command \; do in an equation? I found some examples online using it but cannot really see what its supposed to do.
(Google cannot tell me because \; is not parsed properly by it! :/ )
seems like a separator of sorts
 
@s.harp It inserts some space.
 
like \quad?
 
@s.harp quad is 1em so more of a text space, \; is \thickmuskip so the space tex adds around =
\def\>{\mskip\medmuskip}
\def\;{\mskip\thickmuskip}
\def\!{\mskip-\thinmuskip}
@s.harp ^^
 
oh, so its a "generalisation" of \, and \ (with a space after it)
 
@s.harp \, is thinmuskip
 
10:54 AM
ok, thank you, that clears it up :)
 
11:07 AM
@egreg could you explain what this means? "Pronto prontissimo son come il fulmine: sono il factotum della città." I tried google translate, but it gave a me word-by-word translation (which to me is unclear).
 
@Raaja It means: "If you like pizza, don't put pineapple on top."
 
@marmot No, it doesn't.
There's a (probable) approximation to the meaning here- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largo_al_factotum
> Swift and swifter, quick as lightning:
Room for the city's factotum here.
@egreg likes the good music.
No doubt he could give you a better translation.
 
@Raaja That's from “Il barbiere di Siviglia”. @FaheemMitha gave a good translation.
 
@egreg From Wikipedia.
 
@Raaja @FaheemMitha The last line might better be just “I'm the city's do-it-all”.
 
11:13 AM
"jack of all trades" :)
 
@PauloCereda Yes
 
@egreg Probably. I'm not even sure what factotum means.
Oh, apparently that. Hmm.
 
@FaheemMitha fac = do, totum = everything (from Latin).
 
@PauloCereda what have the Romans ever done for us?
 
@PauloCereda Thanks. Knowing Latin is handy.
 
11:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle the aqueduct ooh
@FaheemMitha Portuguese is a daughter of Latin, so we can infer a couple of things. :)
 
11:26 AM
@egreg and @FaheemMitha thanks for the clarification
@marmot that is a horrible call :D
@marmot this one is great: google.com/…
 
Howdy, any alternative mirrors for the tug font catalogue ?
Now that site is down
 
@1010011010 tug font catalogue? and which site is down?
 
tug.dk returns that the site is down
There's a latex font catalogue on there
 
@1010011010 that is .dk not tug and tug.dk/FontCatalogue is working fo rme
 
Mmmmmmmh
Peculiar
That works for me too
Cheers!
 
11:44 AM
I hyperrefed PDF files, can we build the bookmark index "manually" that is have one set of data in the ToC and a different set in the PDF bookmark?
I'm playing with a book of abstracts. I have the talk titles as main items in the ToC, but might want presenter names in the bookmarks instead. (haven't decided yet)
 
Feb 6 at 17:17, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle ooh a counter
 
@Raaja Hmmh, the link didn't work but maybe that's good. ;-)
 
@daleif bookmark package should let you do that I think
 
Hey folks
Been having some mathjax troubles lately
Latex parts seem unusually tall when interpreted by MathJax
for instance
it is making problem for the page formatting
Is there a reason for this
 
@Slereah it'll depend a lot on which back end you are using, native mathml, svg, common html, html+css, .... but the mathjax developers don't chat here you'd be better asking on the mathjax list (or a question on stack overflow mathjax tag)
 
11:57 AM
Alright, thanks
 
@daleif certainly. Your description is not quite clear to me, but already \texorpdfstring should do it.
 
@UlrikeFischer I think the requirement is for the bookmark structure to be different to the headings/tableofcontents structure so switching individual strings via texorpdfstring is probably not the right level
 
@DavidCarlisle it sounded as if there is 1-1 relation between toc titles and bookmark entries. Should we ask for a MWE ;-)?
 
@UlrikeFischer In this case all the toc data comes via \addtocontents and \addcontentsline. Hmm, \texorpdfstring might be a usable hack
 
@daleif It wouldn't describe this as a hack - if the structure is right, and you only want to change the words, using \texorpdfstring is imho quite appropriate.
 
12:18 PM
@UlrikeFischer Seems to work just fine. Now I just need to get my custom toc entry types to have the proper bookmark level. But that shouldn't be too hard (or I should just make them non-custom...., they came from a custom toc list, that I've now changed into a "normal" toc list)
 
 
1 hour later…
1:23 PM
@HenriMenke -- The readme file for amsmath has a link under "Reporting bugs". (@DavidCarlisle)
 
@barbarabeeton no one reads readme files
 
@DavidCarlisle -- Not sure I like being called "no one". (I'm not Emily Dickinson.)
 
yo'
1:42 PM
@barbarabeeton Thanks for the recent comms. It seems that I was not lucky this time :-)
 
@barbarabeeton, @yo': 2°C last night!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda so close to actually having snow! You missed only 3 or 4 degrees and a bit of percipation! (Btw, did I tell you that I slept outside last week with the night temperatures down to 7C?)
 
@PauloCereda almost cold enough to require a coat
 
@PauloCereda -- I hope you have some good long woollies.
 
@yo' ooh you are brave. :)
@DavidCarlisle I have 3 coats right now!
@barbarabeeton I do! :)
 
1:46 PM
@PauloCereda In Rio d J?
 
@AlexG São Paulo, countryside.
@AlexG last report from a friend in RJ, it's around 14C.
 
yo'
@AlexG Sao Paulo region some 200km from coast.
 
@yo' bingo!
 
yo'
@PauloCereda needless to say, your coast is strange, because there's quite some mountains on the coast, and then the country is very flat...
 
@yo' Ever seen Liguria?
 
yo'
1:53 PM
@egreg yeah, that's quite similar :) Anyway, ever seen the Czech Republic? :)
 
@PauloCereda 9 °C in Porto Alegre. Quite cold.
 
@AlexG indeed!
 
@yo' A few times. :-)
 
yo'
@egreg I mean, you can outline the shape of Czechia in any height map of Europe, for the border mountains on about 80% of the border :-)
 
@yo' oh according to wikipedia you do have a bit of coastline in Hamburg?
 
1:55 PM
@yo' If you call them mountains… ;-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle You checked wikipedia from the time when @egreg was a little boy?
 
@yo' no this page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_the_Czech_Republic says lease lasts until 2028?
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle "The lot is not an exclave as it is not sovereign Czech territory."
 
@yo' I thought you'd be happy to take that, since the alternative is nothing:-)
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle we got used to having no coastline
 
1:59 PM
@yo' Hard to imagine Britain with no coastline
@yo' as brexit shows we are really bad at land borders
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle well, at the pace at which you keep losing coastline, I would not be surprised.
@DavidCarlisle as brexit shows you are really bad at many things :-)
 
@yo' hard to argue with that
 
@yo' LOL
 
@PauloCereda Btw, RIP, Joao Gilberto, one of my favourite musicians.
 
Good afternoon to everybody.
 
2:05 PM
@AlexG indeed, a great musician.
 
In the meantime, thank you to all of you for having learned a bit of spoken English since in the seaside resort where I live there are many English tourists. At least she understood me a little :-)
@DavidCarlisle Hi, there. Can I disturb, please, you a little bit for some clarification? I am currently using the translator.
 
@Sebastiano Oh,you are living where others spend their holidays? Lucky you.
 
@AlexG Yes :-) but I lived in a little city, but there are many people that not came from Sicily
now I'm writing without translator. :-). I'm not very fast to write. Before I must think in Italian and after my mind translate in English language.
In the sea of my beach there are many fishs and I take a little old bread
and they eat :-). they are fantastic fishs
 
@Sebastiano It's “fish” also in the plural. Ask @DavidCarlisle why.
 
@egreg Excuse me very much :-(. You're right.
Infact when I have seen the "fishs" the word for me was very strange.
 
2:26 PM
@egreg I like fish, because it's tasty. I like fishes. Therefore, I have an aquarium.
 
@egreg I contacted him before for some clarification, but I imagine he's busy.
@AlexG There are many types of "fishs" that are not very good tasty :-)
 
@AlexG Is one of the fish named Wanda?
 
@egreg Yes, one of the fishes in the fish tank ;-)
 
@AlexG LOL
 
@egreg the plural is fish or fishes depending (@Sebastiano) but in most contexts I would use "fish"
 
2:34 PM
@AlexG Compulsory movie quotation: youtube.com/watch?v=MuWwCUXGzWE
 
@egreg you see the advantage of chips: you can't torture people with spaghetti
 
@DavidCarlisle When you see big mistakes it's because I don't use the translator. Thank you veru much for your suggestion.
@DavidCarlisle If you not is very busy I have occurred your help.
 
 
@DavidCarlisle LOL
 
@DavidCarlisle Speaking of chips, my lunch last Saturday. ^^^^^^
 
2:38 PM
@egreg no :( I'll host you here at my house and make your own food. :-).-)
 
@egreg probably it's duck in that batter
 
Here we eat the onions+ fresh tuna and tomato
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
@DavidCarlisle -- It might be chicken-fried steak.
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm afraid you can't do a proper Wienerschnitzel with duck.
 
2:40 PM
@barbarabeeton Hi, for my opinion is "cotoletta alla milanese"
 
@barbarabeeton Real Wienerschnitzel is made of pork meat.
@Sebastiano That's with veal.
 
@egreg ooh
 
@egreg we could try....
 
@egreg Yes, of course. I not eat the veal, roastbeef, etc. Only chicken, or turkey or cool fish.
 
@egreg -- I'm aware of that. I also think chicken-fried steak is misguided. But it's very popular in the U.S. southwest.
 
2:43 PM
@barbarabeeton I like it.
 
@egreg Wiener Schnitzel too.
 
No frying, carbonated drinks, cheeses, sweets, fine flours, etc.
 
@egreg -- Which? Wienerschnitzel or chicken-fried steak?
 
CarLaTeX hola'
 
@barbarabeeton Both.
 
2:50 PM
@Sebastiano Ciao! It sems a cotoletta alla milanese to me :) (@egreg)
 
@CarLaTeX ahahahahah with much floor + eggs. Very robust "cotoletta"
 
@egreg -- I gather, then, that you probably don't like rare roast beef or steak tartare.
 
@barbarabeeton Why not? :-)
 
@Sebastiano impanatura is with pan grattato :)
 
Fisherman's risotto, striped feathers or butterflies pasta are not good?
@CarLaTeX LOL. I write very bad without translator.
I've seen a movie of what Americans buy at supermarkets. Impressive
 
2:55 PM
@Sebastiano I'm wondering what are the striped feathers...
 
They drink distilled water :-( which is in 5 litre containers. It costs less.
@CarLaTeX pasta alla carrettiera with fresh tomato e basilico
 
@Sebastiano yes, if you go to a supermarket in the US, you'll be impressed
 
@egreg -- Among people I've met, most seem to prefer meat either "well done", or cooked only just enough to be safe, but not both. I infer, though, regarding this aspect of cookery, you're omnivorous.
 
@barbarabeeton @CarLaTeX Pesto "prego"
:-).-) many typologies of Orego
and there is also a famous name :-) that I don't remember
 
@barbarabeeton A good steak should be rare.
 
3:00 PM
@barbarabeeton In Portuguese, 'rare' is mal passado 'badly done' as opposed to bem passado 'well done'. To me they are exactly the opposite of what they should be. :)
 
@DavidCarlisle speaking of chips: my drink on saturday at the Shakespeare festival ^^
 
@AlanMunn -- Yes. In Portuguese restaurants, if my husband orders a steak, he will specify "muy mal passado", and always answers "yes" when asked to confirm. Even then, in an establishment where we're not known, it often is served barely pink. (Philosophy: the poor beast has already been killed. No need to kill it a second time.)
 
This from Sicily
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton is that medium?
 
3:08 PM
 
@Sebastiano Real granita!
 
@egreg Very real ahahahahah
@egreg Just a curiosity for my book. Have you a little time, please?
 
@Sebastiano If it's something little…
 
@egreg Yes of course
LaTeX Warning: Reference `enci' on page 4 undefined on input line 303.
LaTeX Warning: Reference `fig:subim7' on page 4 undefined on input line 306. Overfull \hbox (8.39914pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 312--312
[][]
 [] LaTeX Warning: Reference `raggivet' on page 4 undefined on input line 328.LaTeX Warning: Reference `fig:subim4' on page 5 undefined on input line 354.


LaTeX Warning: Reference `Galileo' on page 5 undefined on input line 356.


LaTeX Warning: Reference `derivata' on page 5 undefined on input line 359.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn :) Well, "rare" can still be too much; by the French standards, "saignant", while translated as "rare", is usually yet a bit less than that.
 
3:24 PM
@egreg Many of my mistakes in the book are mostly these. When I enter a \label{name} and have to refer to an equation I enter \eqref{name} or a table or figure. Some have a label but do not have a reference because I will probably quote them later following the revision of the book with my prof.
 
@Sebastiano The references are (still) undefined. Does this happen also when you compile twice?
 
@yo' But that's why we have bleu. :)
 
@egreg I have not compiled at the same time never twice but at subsequent times. If I don't bother you, I can send you the complete log code by email. For the figure I use \ref.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn well, "bleu" is yet less than "saignant". And the only reason why I don't like "bleu" is that if I wanted a cold steak, I would have ordered a "tartare" :)
 
@Sebastiano If you get an undefined reference message, it means it's not defined. No need to send the log. Fix the labels.
 
3:27 PM
@egreg How fix the labels? Into my book they are definited
 
@Sebastiano Add the missing \label commands (or check that the spelling is the same as you use in \ref).
 
@yo' Ok. I thought meant that 'saignant' wasn't as rare as you wanted, but you meant it was too rare for you.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn no. I love saignant, but actually you have bleu < saignant < rare (which the last two being almost equal)
and à point should be more like medium rare than medium
 
@egreg look, please. There is \label + \eqref. But I have this error: LaTeX Warning: Reference `Galileo' on page 5 undefined on input line 356.
 
@Sebastiano that's expected the first time, do you get it the second time yourun latex?
@Sebastiano you still have blank line before equation
 
3:34 PM
@DavidCarlisle It takes four minutes to process my file. In total almost 8 minutes to operate the second time.
 
@Sebastiano it can take an hour, it makes no difference \ref are never defined on the first run.
 
@DavidCarlisle I'm deleting them slowly: I have 14000 lines of code :(
 
@Sebastiano that's why editors have regular expression replace so you can edit thousands of lines in a few seconds
 
I have now started the first compilation after editing something in the early afternoon.
@DavidCarlisle Here for example for last theorem I have deleted all the blank line before equation.
 
@Sebastiano you don't need to run latex twice every time, if you have ever run latex previously then any labels that were defined then should be defined, so it is only new label that you have just added that are undefined until the next run.
 
3:39 PM
 
Is there a canonical way to explicitly (not via \bgroup, \egroup which is implicit) refer to the current catcode 1,2 tokens? For example, \def\z{\mytoks{\fbox{A}}} works if defined when braces are the catcode 1,2 tokens. It works even after the 1,2 catcodes are redefined BUT, \mytoks still will contain catcode 1,2 BRACES rather than the newly defined catcode 1,2 delimiters.
 
@StevenB.Segletes Hiiiiiiiiiiii :-)
 
@Sebastiano Greetings
 
@StevenB.Segletes \Uchar
 
@DavidCarlisle Thank you. I see that it is Plain Tex (tex.stackexchange.com/questions/249500/…) Good!
 
3:43 PM
:50949126 luatex/extex primitive but can be made a macro for pdftex, but might be tricky to make work for {}. Why do you want this? what's the use case where {} don't work?
@StevenB.Segletes for pdftex you can use \uppercase to make character tokens with any character code and catcode 1
 
@DavidCarlisle Well it works in the sense that it typesets correctly, but it is part of a parsing macro, and I have the case where, if someone changes the catcodes and calls on the parsing routine, it will convert his grouping tokens into catcode 1,2 braces, as part of the parse
 
@DavidCarlisle Same problem after 2nd compilation. LaTeX Warning: Reference `Galileo' on page 5 undefined on input line 356.
 
@StevenB.Segletes there isn't really a "current catcode 1 token" all characters might have catcode `
@Sebastiano then you did something wrong:-) what is in the aux file there should be a \newlabel{Galileo} command
 
@DavidCarlisle Your answer is helpful in that it sounds like, as long as you get the proper catcode 1,2 behavior, the code should be considered as "working".
 
3:53 PM
@DavidCarlisle There is this:
\relax
\providecommand\zref@newlabel[2]{}
\providecommand\hyper@newdestlabel[2]{}
\providecommand\BKM@entry[2]{}
\abx@aux@refcontext{nyt/global//global/global}
\providecommand\HyperFirstAtBeginDocument{\AtBeginDocument}
\HyperFirstAtBeginDocument{\ifx\hyper@anchor\@undefined
\global\let\oldcontentsline\contentsline
\gdef\contentsline#1#2#3#4{\oldcontentsline{#1}{#2}{#3}}
\global\let\oldnewlabel\newlabel
\gdef\newlabel#1#2{\newlabelxx{#1}#2}
\gdef\newlabelxx#1#2#3#4#5#6{\oldnewlabel{#1}{{#2}{#3}}}
 
@Sebastiano yes so now, after that run the aux file should have a definition of that label, so next time it is defined.
@Sebastiano in a book of thousands of lines I would have expected thousands of lines in the aux, you only have a handful of definitions.
 
@DavidCarlisle I didn't understand what to do :-(
 
@Sebastiano you have a definition for \newlabel{fig:subim42} but then nothing else, is that the last \label in your book?
 
@DavidCarlisle I have interrupt the complete compilation because the .aux file I don't know why it is lost or deleted from TeXworks when the compilation is complete.
 
@Sebastiano that wasn't the question I asked, is \label{fig:subim42} the last label in the document?
 
4:00 PM
@DavidCarlisle no there are other labels but the others have the same labels.
 
@Sebastiano "synctex(busy)" looks as if the compilation didn't finish. Do you get any errors?
 
@Sebastiano oh you said you did interrupt the compilation? well that will break the aux fiel so you will need to do two latex runs to get the cross refernces back.
@Sebastiano "same labels" ??? you can not have two things with the same label.
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, of course. I thought of printing the code and then correcting it by hand. There is no order for the labels and you can imagine after 2 and a half years the concentration decreases. I promised myself to change them one by one.
 
Hi folks. I have a sort of general opinion type question. Over the last few years, I've but together an ad-hoc custom mini-referencing system, similar in spirit to BibTeX. But this just displays the integers where the references should appear. This is for correspondence, not papers/books. I've been using dates as a natural key.
 
@UlrikeFischer I'm sure I agree with you very much. Busy=occupied during compilation. But I blocked it. The .aux file is generated only when the compilation is either interrupted or there are serious errors that block the compilation.
@FaheemMitha Hi
 
4:04 PM
@Sebastiano I do not see how you can get in that position, as soon as you add a label that clashes with an existing one, then you get a latex error. So fix that before writing any more document.
 
I was wondering if that key would be a better choice than integers. The difference is in "see [1]" vs "see [2019.06.01.foo]". While the former is shorter, the latter is more informative.
And it would save me having to guess what [1] meant every time I saw it.
@Sebastiano Hey.
 
@DavidCarlisle I thought so. :-) I'm gonna go to the doctor and run some errands. Thank you very much David and @egreg. Bye
 
I know citations have a lot of different styles.
 
@Sebastiano if your document is producing errors there is no point asking about why some output looks wrong, the output is nonsense and should not be used for anything. But you know that. we have said it enough times.
3
@Sebastiano No. the aux file is generated on every run, and required so it can be input on the next run.
 
BTW, is there a possibility of a race within LuaTeX if both the Lua side and the TeX side are trying to write to the aux file?
 
4:15 PM
@FaheemMitha I don't think they can be active at the same time
 
@DavidCarlisle I see. That's good to know.
 
@FaheemMitha correction: you can use \directlua within a \write no idea what that does if you write to the same file
 
@DavidCarlisle I was wondering if it was possible to get bits of interweaved text from the two directions.
@DavidCarlisle Might do a block on write.
 
@FaheemMitha it probably depends if you write from lua using texio.write or native lua file access (but I don't know what happens in either case)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ok.
Has anyone ever had occasion to dump Lua structures in a serialised format (whatever that might be) to the aux file?
I guess I should have written write, not dump.
And I don't see why Lua can't echo the freaking line where the freaking error is. Seriously, what is your problem? All the other languages can manage that.
 
4:27 PM
@yo' -- "Medium" is a cop-out. That's not a quality I find useful in food preparation.
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton I'm afraid I'm lost with the usage of "cop-out" here.
For me, "medium" is a culinary term for a way how a steak is prepared.
 
@FaheemMitha Lua gets passed each chunk as a siingle line if you mean via \directlua you can get line numbers if you use a file
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I get line numbers. I'd prefer Lua to quote the line where the error is, so that I can be sure it's talking about the same code.
 
@AlanMunn -- Ah! That's almost the equivalent of "black and blue", where the "black" refers to the outside and the "blue" to the inside. "Pittsburgh" is another term for that quality.
 
Hi @barbarabeeton. How's it going? Unpacked yet?
 
4:33 PM
@FaheemMitha debug.traceback() ?
 
@DavidCarlisle That's a Lua thing?
 
@FaheemMitha -- Not unpacked yet. All the boxes are in the basement. Unfortunately, the stairs to the basement are a bit shaky, and there's no handrail, and since I'm still shaky myself (and using a cane), getting there isn't safe. So it's a one-by-one operation.
 
@barbarabeeton Sounds scary. Get your stairs repaired. And/or install a handrail.
I'm actually contemplating buying a ladder. Because the current ones are either (a) too small or (b) shaky.
A broken hip would cost far more than a staircase or handrail to repair.
One advantage of living in India is that repair work is actually affordable. Relatively speaking.
I've seen prices in the UK (for example), and they are terrifying.
I wonder anyone ever repairs anything.
 
@FaheemMitha Well they certainly haven't fixed Brexit. :(
 
@AlanMunn LOL
 
4:47 PM
@yo' -- I was making a quality comment. You're correct that "medium" is a proper culinary term, but for my taste, I can't think of anything that is appropriately prepared to "medium". ("Over medium heat", however, is a useful instruction.) On a different comment of yours, "bleu" implies that the meat is still in one piece; "tartare" implies that it has been minced, and no flame/heat has been applied. A solid uncooked chunk is just "raw".
 
yo'
@AlanMunn it's 2nd time this is mentioned today. Conincidence? I doubt it.
 
@yo' Let's just say there aren't any fans in the chat.
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton I know the difference between bleu and tartare of course (it would be difficult not to after living in Paris). I just say that cold piece of meat is not something I like, and bleu is cold (well, certainly not warm). So while I like my steaks as low as possible, I want them warm.
 
@FaheemMitha -- That's why I'm still using a cane on uneven surfaces. I got a new titanium hip joint for a Christmas "present" in 2017 after an ice storm on December 23.
 
yo'
@AlanMunn I realize this; the funny thing is how similar the two mentions are :)
3 hours ago, by yo'
@DavidCarlisle as brexit shows you are really bad at many things :-)
 
4:51 PM
@barbarabeeton Ok. Be careful.
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton Steak tartare is though quite a different story: I love these, and the best is tartare de saumon, ideally with pommes frites maison, i.e. home-made fries, and the larger the better.
 
@yo' -- We're in agreement there. One jocular instruction to a server when ordering a steak is "introduce it to a match".
 
yo'
@barbarabeeton :)
 
@barbarabeeton On the other hand, a “fiorentina” requires quite a long time next to the fire, but it's just to grill the exterior part. Since its height is at least 5–6 cm (2–2.4 in), the interior is still rare.
 
yo'
5:30 PM
A sign of globalization: Czech pizza with Lithuanian kriek.
 
@AlanMunn Hmmh, I guess you need German to understand the message of the video: "Diese Enten können mir den Buckel runterrutschen." ;-)
 
5:45 PM
@yo' Add pineapple and you'll have the worst possible dinner.
 
I don't see what's wrong with pineapple. I like pineapple. I ate some today.
 
yo'
@egreg no pineapples today :)
 
why is site so negative at the moment, first 10 or so questions all have negative score :(
 
yo'
@DavidCarlisle @PauloCereda is not doing his job!
 
@DavidCarlisle Wow, that is kind of saignant.
 
5:52 PM
@AlanMunn but not blue
 
@DavidCarlisle Great minds, and all that.
@DavidCarlisle Some of the votes seem completely unwarranted. The TIPA one, for example, has a MWE and an error. What else is needed?
 
@AlanMunn yes I have adjusted several of them
 
6:12 PM
@yo' oh
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
@CarLaTeX oh no, ducks
 
@DavidCarlisle look at the last but one dish ^^^
@PauloCereda Don't worry, we didn't choose it :)
 
@CarLaTeX few
 
6:34 PM
@DavidCarlisle -- It looks like at least two people are consistently downvoting. Of the last 15 most recently posted new questions, there are none that haven't been downvoted, and almost all have 2 downvotes. Is this something a moderator can investigate? (@JosephWright)
 
@CarLaTeX Tasty.
 
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