@Carcer and I kinda posted it as an http link... let me test...

thecodelesscode.com/case/139

nope, I was wrong. Sorry, my bad. The link I just posted should work. I though I could have discovered a bug, but it was just me being Derpy.

@BESW This time the main Meta podcast may actually be interesting. If anything, it should give us clues on what the staff thinks an healthy community is.

Will try to listen to the recording now, will try to point out if I heard anything interesting

I'll have to wait 'til there's a transcript.

seems all the podcast focus on the initial definition of "healthy" as

up to now, they have been talking a lot about the "reaching targets, doing tasks" part, we well see if they actually return on the "welcoming" part

OK, finished.

Nothing really noteworthy IMHO

there are a few mentions of the importance of "feeling comfortable" in the podcast but nothing is really expanded upon.

Because apparently the word "safe" is now a summoning incantation for legions of trolls.

Instead, most of the focus is on "fulfilling your objective" and needing of "leadership to help people keep focus"

Comfort is a terrible metric. Whose comfort? Measured how? Except it's great if you're only interested in visibility.

Comfort is a metric you can announce you've reached whenever you like and produce data to support the claim.

Safety would be a much better and much more difficult goal.

@BESW Bingo. That was precisely why I was interested in listening to the podcast.

That said... keep in mind that I didn't use the exact words from the actual podcast, so please do not give to much weight to the wording until you can see the actual transcript

It sounds like they've succumbed to the "offense" strawman.

Specifically, with words like "comfortable" they seem to indicate that the user shouldn't feel unwelcome or be put in discomfort by being in the community.

Are they trying to figure this out for themselves? Do they not know there's decades of study and practice they can draw on through research, or better yet hiring an expert?

[shrug] I need to go to bed. ttfn

@BESW to be fair, nothing in that podcast point in that direction. NOR to the opposite. As I said, it is inconclusive.

The only mentioning of "welcominess", "safety", "comfortable" etc are pretty vague and never expanded up, so I wouldn't give any importance to the words they used since they are just unfocused ideas

at that level, it is just "coffe-break chatting" if you get what I meant, they never intended to focus on that topic so the few words spent on it are still blurry and vague.

basically, since you were talking about that baking show before in the other room....

It is not like I would criticize them because the bread was bad. It is that the bread was never baked in the first place so I am left with just the dough.

Maybe I had the wrong expectations, but I was expecting a course focused on the bread, instead I got one focused on meat, with a tiny slice of raw bread as a dessert.

there was much focus on how a community may stay healthy by improving question quality, helping users finding task they can do etc... but not enough focus IMHO on how to make them not hurt each other.

on a totally different topic... A new Zelda sequel has been announced, and I have that weird feeling they may actually go for the plot I always wanted and never had.

@Derpy What's the plot you're expecting?

The music in the trailer is clearly distorted

and even in reverse, it doesn't sound much clearer

there is something that seems like a distorted voice, but not much.

The voice many have linked to either Midna or Fii, but I wouldn't focus on that

If we accept that the music is distorted on purpose to be far less recognizable.... the chords are somehow similar to the first part of Battlefield of Demise from Skyward Sword

Therefore, heard my prophecy....

BOTW's Zelda has already shown to be at least as "stupid" as Princess Bubblegum...

Brilliant plans that never actually work and a poor hero that will take all the beating.

The game is a sequel. They managed to defeat Ganondorf/Ganon/Malice

Really? From what I remember, BOTW Zelda had self-esteem issues because her superpower was limited to critical plot moments, whereas PB is an ancient gelatinous lawful evil mad scientist... Kinda tangential though. Dont mind the interruption.

I said she is as stupid as her, not that she is evil.

I totally expect that now her next move is to try to go for a definitive solution.

so.... if I am correct....

they now are trying to break the loop

the red haired "skeleton" in the trailer isn't Ganondorf.

He is Demise

Does Demise have a physical body that can decay? I thought he was like a spirity thing

@MikeQ ^ this.

it would make sense. SS would be the first game, and BOTW - who has oddly been put OUTSIDE the timeline even on the Japanese official site would become the last

So the hypothesis is that, since the trailer music kinda sounds like part of the Demise battle, the upcoming game will be about slaying Demise in some sorta lich form?

@MikeQ my idea is that the premise for the game is that Zelda had the brilliant idea to try to track down the source of the "Curse of Demise" (and remember, there is a place called "Valley/Breach of Demise in BOTW) and break it to free her and Link from the loop of reincarnations

It would make sense for her, since she is probably the Zelda that would feel more guilty for what Link had to pass thru (she may even feel responsible for his "death")

Breach of Demise had a Korok, if I'm not mistaken

Thus, Demise has been reincarnated as a Korok

little problem- the trailer probably is the beginning of the game. They find something about a "Demise", they go alone because they are very stupid.... and they get a bad time.

Upcoming game: Link vs the Koroks. The fanbase gets their revenge.

A very bad time.

won' t really expect much more but here are a few wild guess that probably won't happen

I mean, maybe? The plot of most games that feature Ganon is that they try to destroy him. Sometimes they're aware of the cycle, sometimes not.

What would be novel is if they feature a Ganon-character as an ally. Like, Zelda tracks down the next Ganondorf incarnation, and they team up to fight the remnants of monster-Ganon, or against some common enemy

that is my point

People expect Zelda to be playable in this one. This is actually plausible . What they won't expect is playable kid Ganondorf. Capitalize on WW ending and the aged Ganondorf that was bored by his role and now the new one can be saved

and that could fill another hole in the plot.

Fierce Deity Link

I dunno, FD wasn't really plot-significant

Link, with an armor that bears the Triforce on a side and the Moon from the Gerudo flag on the other.

and a sword that is two swords interwined.

Won't never happen, but it has an incredible potential.

There's lots of stuff featured in LoZ games that don't really fit in the established chronology, and aren't elaborated. Doesn't mean they can't be explained, just means they don't really need to be explained.

I know, but imagine a final battle that has Link use both the master sword and Ganondorf one to turn into FD Link....

Imagine a final battle between Tingle and Hestu

but as I said those are just wishes. What I am quite confident though is that the thing in the trailer is Demise

It's hard to speculate about the plot. There's a lot of lore to draw from.

@MikeQ you realize that "Deity" Tingle actually exists, right?

or to be more precise, Fairy Tingle.

@MikeQ If it is really a sequel then having Ganondor survive as a skeleton so soon would feel a tad of.

And there is no translation error that could fix that

Vati? could be, but does not really match.

Well, whatever the story is, I'm hoping for more game features. Wider variety of enemies, particularly those with complex mechanics. Poes, Redeads, etc. More interesting bosses too.

@MikeQ to be fair, as unrealistic it would be, I just want to be able to force her majesty Zelda to follow me all the game, even if she just shot some arrow when she remembers to.

The girl need to do something for a change, and doing something while in armor form doesn't really count

Maybe she'll become a pirate again

(I don't know if you want to jump into that fire; I just want you to know it probably wouldn't be of no use.)

@Rubiksmoose you wanted to chat about tools for addressing issues with other users?

@GcL Well, I was hoping to be able to address your specific concern and see if it can be resolved if that is something you want to happen.

It seems you had an unpleasant incident with one of the mods and that it is still something that bothers you enough to bring it up. So that indicates to me that there is something there that we can try to use our tools to resolve instead of being left to fester.

@Rubiksmoose I've had interactions with users that I did not perceive as respectful. This is not a problem. This happens with people all the time. Most times, they were unaware of how what was said was received.

Let's talk about Alice and Bob as an abstraction. In the course of a group conversation, Alice says to Bob, "come back when you have useful knowledge for participating on this site."

The tools for properly dealing with that sort of statement aren't available on SE.

@GcL Talking is a tool that we have on this site and it can help to resolve a lot of things.

However, if you don't see there being an issue, I'm not sure that there is anything here to resolve.

Personally, and according to our site's guidelines acting disrespectfully is something we care about and something we have the tools to address.

@Rubiksmoose Yes, but the conversation here are obligate public. A quick neutral tone private conversation is the first approach for addressing a statement that was not well received.

@Rubiksmoose Those tools seem well suited for something that is clearly disrespectful, and not subtly so.

@GcL Well tools are generally better at solving bigger, more obvious issues than smaller subtle ones, and this makes sense. But it doesn't mean they can't be used to resolve a situation if you wanted one to be resolved.

Something that was not receive well by one party should be addressed one to one. It engages sympathy neurons if done well, and avoids the barriers and fallout from calling someone out in a group setting.

@GcL We can set up private chats that are not public if we need to.

We certainly can't force another person in there to talk of course, but would setting one up to express your concerns be something you are interested in?

@Rubiksmoose I can't. And getting mom moderators involved defeats the purpose of one on one communication.

@Rubiksmoose I do like that someone can't be coerced to receive communication. That is an upside of SE.

@GcL Is there a reason why you only want it to be exclusively 1 on 1 here? Generally we do things in public, and as long as they are done respectfully there isn't any issue.

@Rubiksmoose Because one on one communication is the right tool for the job initially. Involving authority figures or public call outs are not.

I don't really want it here. I recognize that it's not available, so there are classes of problems that can't be adequately addressed by the tools available. Which is fine.

I'm not really sure that I see the harm here in having, say, a room that only 5 + whoever is invited people can see. It isn't like it would mean the others would have to be involved.

We've worked through many a personal beef here using even public chat.

But in the end it is up to you, I'm just letting you know that you should take advantage of the options if you want a solution.

@Rubiksmoose That's an interesting mechanic. Can I create a room where only the invited can see?

@GcL You cannot. Diamond mods are the only ones who can create "private" rooms. In this case, private means that only the invited people plus the moderators of that site can see or write in it.

But it is a different type of room then the one that you created a while back where everyone can see in, but write access only is restricted (though mods could write freely in it as well).

@Rubiksmoose Some can be done publicly, but how many should have been? How many would have had a quick resolution with "Hey, when X was stated, I felt Y." "I didn't know that. I'm sorry."

@Rubiksmoose That's involving authorities. That changes the situation.

Also, then not one on one.

Well, that is what we have. Moderators are this site's resolution mechanic when things go beyond what happens publically. They don't have to be actively involved in an actual discussion.

For one thing, I thought that this complaint stemmed from a specific moderator anyways?

Anyways here is the long and short of what I'm saying: we're here to help. I've tried to explain the tools as best I can. If you have issues you raising flags, meta, and (to a lesser degree) chat are the way to resolve them. How you proceed with that is up to you.