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12:28 AM
8
Q: How can players take actions together that are impossible otherwise?

H2ForgeE.g. three players want to hurl a gigantic boulder at a monster during combat. Neither one can achieve this alone and must muster their combined strength to lift and hurl the massive stone. The help action, in any case, won't work, since on p-175 of the Player's Handbook on working together stat...

 
 
2 hours later…
1:58 AM
hey there @user53807, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@BESW you mean she was playing me the whole time? Gasp shock who could ever guess
:P
 
2:46 AM
@Shalvenay Thoroughly enjoying the current game in the back room. I assumed it was inappropriate to chime in. But @Sora's last move was awesome.. "OOOOOOHHH DAMN!"
 
@linksassin I'm glad you are XD it's turning out interestingly, very different from how I figured
 
 
2 hours later…
4:22 AM
Morning all
 
@kviiri Afternoon. How's it going?
 
@linksassin A bit of worn-down feeling from moving house over the weekend, and mildly conflicted feelings regarding yesterday's election results. Going to help my parents clear my grandfather's estate today, so probably won't be feeling any more refreshed this night :P
 
Gee... that's a tough couple of days. Which election?
 
Finnish parliamentaries
 
Can't say I'm up to date on Finnish politics. Is it a bad situation or simply not the result you wanted?
 
4:28 AM

 Not a bar, but plays one on TV

I'm not a place to unwind after work, but I play one on TV.
 
^ I already posted a bit of commentary there
 
Apologies @BESW Thanks for cleaning up our messes :)
 
 
2 hours later…
6:25 AM
1
Q: How does the Nova's Burn power work at the 7-9 level?

Nepene NepIn Masks, Novas have the Burn power: Burn When you charge up your powers, roll + conditions you currently have marked. On a hit, hold 3 burn. On a 7-9, mark a condition. On a miss, hold 2 burn and mark three conditions. Spend your burn on your flares. You lose all burn at the end of...

 
7:07 AM
A reddit thread asking for people's favorite non-D&D games: reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/bdcw87/…
 
 
1 hour later…
8:12 AM
@V2Blast and as expected.... someone did reply "4th edition".
 
 
3 hours later…
10:59 AM
5
Q: What are the options for player characters to create traps?

VadrukThe ranger and rogue in my game were asking about setting traps in preparation for a battle that was coming. Another player is convinced rogues can make traps because he saw it happen in D&D sessions online (in streams). But the only information about making traps that I can find seems to be addr...

 
11:09 AM
@Derpy har har, :/
 
11:59 AM
Is this the harder and probably more chaotic version of Lupus in Tabula?
(also, please ignore the wrong ping - wasn't meant to be a reply)
 
12:48 PM
Seriously love printing dungeons as pamphlets. There’s something really awesome about having a physical copy in this format https://t.co/848XPUyvSf
"Solar System Die Drop Table!" by Saker Tarsos on Tarsos Theorem.
 
1:08 PM
BTW, seems Lupus is just a localized name. The original game I was thinking of is Mafia / Werewolves
 
 
I have a question I want to ask, but I can't think of a way to ask it that's not vtc-pob.

Should monsters gain <s>xp</s> experience points for overcoming encounters?
 
Obsolete operating systems are terrible rewards.
 
@goodguy5 There's probably an argument against them doing so, as then a Beast Master's companion should be gaining levels (which is RAW doesn't)
 
@goodguy5 game/system?
 
1:14 PM
5e @nits
 
I don't think I've ever run a game in any system (with the hilarious exception that proves the rule of Roll For Shoes) where monster XP was based on anything except what I wanted it to be for the sake of the challenge I was orchestrating.
 
So is the monster an ally of the party?
 
nono, like, if the PCs lose the battle
 
Or are you saying that if the miniboss rebuffs the party, they could gain XP and maybe even level up?
Gotcha.
 
yes
I know that there's no raw to support it (or at least, I think not)
 
1:16 PM
While I've used that sort of notion (esp. with humanoid recurrent villains) I've never felt like mechanizing it in that way.
 
Not for me. The miniboss levels up or not depending on whether I want the party's return to be a challenging rematch, or a vengeful curbstomp.
 
My usual method is to make the narrative/list of what this person would do but for the party's presence, then periodically look at that to see whether I think it makes narrative sense that Dr. Doom has made progress toward X or gained resource Y in the background.
And party interactions definitely play into that.
 
Totally, that's a great strategy. but it's not... XP.
 
@goodguy5 what has you wondering about implementing this system?
 
that "do PCs have a CR" question.
 
1:20 PM
Ahh. The CR of a PC is the average level of 4 other PCs it would take to kill six of the first PC in a day without serious risk of death, no?
2
=)
Wait a minute... how many clones does Paranoia give you?
 
1:43 PM
@nitsua60 I believe it's a sixpack.
 
1:54 PM
yep, BESW is right - it is a six-pack.
and if your master is felling particularly kind, that means that the last one is a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone of you.
 
2:36 PM
5
Q: Does a PC have a CR (relating to polymorph spell)?

ColoniseurI was discussing the spell with my DM relating to this question Can a Wizard polymorph low-level PCs into over-powered beasts? about the polymorph spell. According to Polymorph's description, The new form can be any beast whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the target’s (or the...

 
3:15 PM
5
Q: What is the longest distance a 13th level monk can jump while attacking on the same turn?

VadrukContext During last session in a game that I GM, the party got attacked by monk NPCs from the trees. In the heat of the moment, the person who was playing a Warlock and got targeted by the monks (he was flying mid-air) convinced me that jumping distance is only 10 feet when doubled. It didn't ...

 
4:04 PM
Watching the HNQ feed makes me thing the "velocity" term in the hotness equation is too twitchy. When we have a question with 4 upvotes and one +2 answer hit the HNQ... that doesn't really seem right to me. What do you-all think?
 
@nitsua60 It seems maybe less like "hot questions" and more "recent, real questions"
 
@nitsua60 That's been my sense, but I'm not sure how the frequency of our questions showing up on the feed compares to other stacks.
 
4:21 PM
It's high. [rummages on meta.se]
35
Q: Which sites appear most often in the Hot Network Questions list?

YpnypnIs there any data about which Stack Exchange sites have their questions end up in the Hot Network Questions list the most? In particular: What percentage of hot network questions comes from each site? What about all-time, this year, this month? What percentage of questions from each site end...

 
4:45 PM
@nitsua60 Worldbuilding at 6.9%? Nice.
 
@Yuuki Nice.
 
5:07 PM
@nitsua60 definitely. I think it is way too sensitive.
 
@Rubiksmoose I'm so glad you edited that, as I was really struggling to see what relevance turkeys had to his situation..
 
5:25 PM
Hahaha I almost left it because it was a pretty funny typo.
 
6:04 PM
The Notre Dame burning down does a lot to drag down my spirits, but at least it's giving me a lot of perspective on the significance of me scratching the closet door while moving house.
 
7
Q: Does surprise arrest existing movement?

VigilDo surprised creatures which were already moving prior to being surprised keep moving, or stop moving for a round? Some illustrative situations might be: A carriage drawn by four horses is heading down a road at 60 feet/round. The carriage is ambushed by previously unseen goblins, and the driv...

 
@HotRPGQuestions Under what charges?
 
6:19 PM
@Yuuki Trumped up, phony charges that wouldn't hold up in court, which is why the DMCops are going to do everything possible to force a confession in interrogation instead of letting the court settle it.
 
For those who are interested in a conversation about me willing to play with D&D players without engaging in the D&D homework that character building is, I have decided to limit the conversation to the not-a-bar chat, to avoid filling the main chat with this particular topic.
Meanwhile, hello everyone
 
6:53 PM
Notre-Dame de Paris is burning down :(
 
@DanB that tree is a great patron idea, can I like, steal it
 
@Zachiel I genuinely almost teared-up when I heard that. It's a bit heart-wrenching for me when monuments to humanity's history fall to time or disaster or attack.
4
 
7:22 PM
@Zachiel Particularly inauspicious given that this is Easter week ... sad face
 
@Zachiel :(
 
We visited Paris back n 1997. The kids really liked the Cathedral; the Louvre they didn't go into. I stayed outside with the kids and their Mom got to enjoy that.
 
Une bonne nouvelle : toutes les œuvres d’art ont été sauvées. Le trésor de la cathédrale est intact, la couronne d’épines, les saints sacrements. #NOTRE_DAME
translation:
"Good news: all the works of art were saved. The treasure of the Cathedral is intact, the Crown of thorns, the Holy sacraments."
followup tweet: "Source: father Frederick, priest for two years in ND." (translated obviously)
 
@Stackstuck Yes! : D
 
@V2Blast wasn't the dome a work of art itself?
 
7:40 PM
Do we still have the plans for it?
 
Ben
8:09 PM
Morning all
 
8:40 PM
Cons:

- Probably breaks the game
- What even are "Flying Creatures" anyways?
- I have a normal relationship with my siblings

Pros:

- Is cool as heck
- lol
- Has anyone seen my cat? She went missing like three weeks ago and the last place I saw her was whe
Right now, it seems like the "Pros" side is winning.
 
Ben
Physics would like to put a foot in, but then realise that this is an RPG, awkwardly check its phone and excuse itself.
 
Could a monk achieve de facto flight simply by carrying around a bunch of rocks to jump off of?
 
@Yuuki Sure.
 
Ben
Though along those lines - running up or across a wall requires a lot of precision and applied force. Launching oneself from that surface is not going to work in the same direction. It will change their trajectory.
I'll leave it at that
 
Well, ok, technically that's a D&D 3.5e wardancer, using acrobatics to stay aloft.
 
8:47 PM
@Yuuki Only one free object interaction per round, though.
 
Ben
@Yuuki I did a quick google search to see if I could find the clip from Kung Fu Hustle, where at the end of the movie, he steps on a bird in mid air to launch himself higher... couldn't find it, but I was rewarded with an announcement that KFH2 is coming
 
@Ben I think it's been "coming" for a while
but yeah, I know the scene you mean
recently watched it with my mom - she'd never seen it ebfore
 
The knife bit in Kung Fu Hustle is the height of prop comedy.
 
Ben
@V2Blast the links I saw were actually from feb this year.
 
8:51 PM
This is pretty funny, even though I've never played with players that would act like this
 
Ben
Don't know more than that. But it's more than I knew. Lol
 
@Ben I know Stephen Chow recently talked about it
 
@Xirema I mean... I don't see a reason not to allow it if you aren't playing strict RAW. It will almost never be important in a game, and they are still limited in movement by speed.
 
> Scam Artist's Gloves
Legendary Wondrous Item (Requires Attunement)

While wearing these gloves, you immediately regain use of your "Free Object Interaction" after you use it.
There, I solved the problem.
 
Ben
@V2Blast Those movies are kind of like the Chinese version of the Cornetto trilogy.
 
8:55 PM
@DavidCoffron The best use of a Zone of Truth-type spell my players ever gave me was an improptu game of Truth or Dare around the campfire.
 
@Xirema so... unlimited object interactions? :P
 
@Xirema Umm... now I'm trying to figure out how exactly an effect like that would be worded using the confusingly unspecific wording for a "free object interaction"
@Yuuki No, you would fall to the ground at the end of your turn (or after each jump, depending on how strict your GM reads the falling rules)
 
@DavidCoffron Well, I'm referencing the "Other Activity on your Turn" rules, PHB pg. 190.
 
@Xirema I know, but they are worded very weirdly.
 
@DavidCoffron Mm.
 
9:01 PM
> You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action.
> ... If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action.
So, basically the magic item could say:
> You do not need to use your action to interact with a second object during either your move or your action.
 
I was tempted to just say "you may interact with an object without using your Action", but I was worried that would loop in things like Wands.
 
@Xirema Nah. Wands are explicitly using the Use a Magic Item action (as of errata)
@Xirema But it would loop in acid or alchemist's fire if worded like that...
 
Ben
Unrelated: I just watched the Star Wars Trailer. I dislike it.
 
I think there's a distinction between interacting with and using an object that the rules probably make.
 
> You can interact with as many objects or features of the environment as you like for free, during your move and your action.
@CTWind You're right:
> Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
 
9:04 PM
@Ben Only true Star Wars fans hate anything related to Star Wars
@Xirema Would this give infinite Free Object Iteractions per turn?
 
@Xirema Even with that magic item, a GM could just rule along:
> The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle.
 
Ben
@MikeQ Modesty is telling me that I should deny that status. Haha. I mean, I know more about the Star Wars universe than those that have just seen the movies, but that's probably the extent of it.
 
@Ben It's all a red herring and The Rise of Starwalker is the story of Kylo Ren opening a bakery.
 
@MikeQ That's the essence of it. Trying to figure out how to allow a Monk to traverse vertically in free space, @Yuuki suggested throwing a bunch of rocks to enable the "move along walls" part.
 
Ben
@Yuuki At what point does Ed Sheeran make a cameo?
 
9:07 PM
@Ben He's the secondary protagonist, it's a romantic comedy.
 
Ben
Now you've got me hooked
 
@Ben I was unimpressed with the trailer, but I'm also the weird Star Wars fan that was kind of unimpressed with Ep7 but really liked (and liked more on the rewatch) Ep8.
Politically, I think that makes me a Monarchist, not sure, gonna have to consult the political spectrum graph.
 
@Xirema Then how about the magic item is the stones themselves? e.g., a handful of tiny, deployable, floating platforms.
 
Ben
@Xirema The only part I liked abot 7, which in turn made me feel better about the rest of the movie, was the Lightsaber fight in the Forest with Finn and Rey at the end of the movie
 
I think I've mentioned this before, but I went on a rant explaining why I didn't like Ep7, and my brother mic-dropped me with "it sounds like you just don't like J.J. Abrams", despite the fact that I never once mentioned him.
 
9:10 PM
@Xirema I mean if you are granting a magic item, their are numerous items that grant flight...
 
(Apparently all the stuff I don't like are, like, HALLMARKS of his directorial style...)
 
> Stepping Stones [sic]
> Interacting with this magical stone does not require an action. Upon interaction, the stone returns to your pocket(eses).
 
@DavidCoffron Yeah, but if you're not granting flight by throwing a bunch of regular rocks into the air and using a monk feature and exploiting the rules to fly, then what's the point?
 
Ben
Basically, KR is a whiny tween cosplayer. He's annoying and showboaty because he just wants to be the new Vader. Then the fight at the end, something clicked off and he just got mad. It was scary just seeing such fury in his face.
 
That's like Minecraft removing the glitch that caused adjacent minecarts to accelerate way past max speed, and then introducing booster rails to replace them.
Like.... that's so boring.
 
Ben
9:12 PM
And the way that carried over into Ep. 8. It is all part of the character development. I couldn't really care less about his backstory. I really enjoy watching the development of the character in the movies
 
Who would do that?
 
@Xirema I mean... If you don't like all the aspects of a movie that are tantamount to the director's style, that doesn't mean you dislike the director. It just means you dislike how he made that movie (and possibly others where he used a similar style).
 
I dunno, if you don't like myriad plot threads that are spun off with no intention of ever tying them up, pretty sure that just means you don't like JJ Abrams.
 
But I think that is dumb. I loved Us, but hated Get Out, despite their directing style being almost identical.
(I liked Us because it had wildly different and interesting themes, you can enjoy or dislike a movie for different reasons than just directing style)
 
@DavidCoffron Well, yeah.
 
9:15 PM
I wouldn't say that the endless plot threads is a hallmark of Abrams's directorial style mainly because that's more of a screenwriter thing than a director thing.
 
@Xirema Anyone who realizes that the glitch is (was at this point) super inconsistent, and booster rails make way more sense.
 
But Abrams is typically pretty involved with the screenwriting too.
 
....why are we talking about auteur theory in main chat, and D&D builds in the Not A Bar?
 
@BESW haha
 
Ben
@BESW Because you only just got here?
 
@BESW Sometimes you work remotely and sometimes you just shoot the breeze by the water cooler.
 
Ben
[Something about being chaotic and directionless, in need of guidance and direction]
 
@BESW Technically, it is per request
@Yuuki That's an age-old question. How involved in the screenplay should a director be
 
@Ben Aaaand now I have "God Save Our Lobster Queen" in my head.
 
(or vice versa, how much influence should the screenwriter have with the direction)
 
9:21 PM
@BESW That was such a good video.
 
@DavidCoffron I feel like that's asking the wrong question, imo. Some directors are pretty involved in the screenplay, yes. That just means they're also screenwriters.
 
@Yuuki Maybe I didn't illustrate my point well enough. Should a director, for the sake of his direction, modify a screenwriter's screenplay (and to what extent). Or the vv, how much implicit direction should a screenwriter include in his/her screenplay (possibly without the behest of the director).
 
Some chefs grow their own ingredients. That doesn't mean that horticulture should be considered part of a chef's domain. It just means that there are chefs that are also farmers.
 
Should a GM modify a pre-made adventure?
 
9:24 PM
@BESW Yes, no, and sometimes. It depends.
 
@Yuuki Or in you analogy, should a farmer engineer food that only tastes good with certain other foods. Or should a chef place restrictions on what food the farmers can grow in favor of what he likes to make
 
Ben
What Mike said. Lol. Depends on the situation
 
@BESW I mean, I'm not making any prescriptions on what people should do but rather what those things should be called.
 
@MikeQ Or to put another way: almost always, but not like that, and if you want
 
9:25 PM
@DavidCoffron That's kind of exactly what I meant, to a degree.
 
Ben
And only on thursdays
 
It always depends on the situation. Sometimes.
 
Should I just start linking Kyle Kallgren and Lindsay Ellis on Auteur theory?
 
Sixty percent of the time, it works every time.
 
@BESW More specifically, it depends on: What parts are you modifying, Why are you modifying them, How are you improving them, and maybe a 4th question about the effort involved
 
9:27 PM
But is it still a pre-made adventure if it is modified?
 
@ACuriousMind The real pre-made adventure was all the homebrew rulings we ignored along the way.
 
@Yuuki If you roll a 1 on the d20
 
I'll need an exact list of stuff you can modify until it is no longer the same adventure
 
Ben
@ACuriousMind I think that depends on the time frame. If you need to put it in the microwave before serving, definitely.
 
@ACuriousMind I can give you a dictionary.
 
9:28 PM
@ACuriousMind Ah, the classic Module of Theseus problem
2
 
The Ship of Theseus the Mines of Phandelver.
 
@BESW What does it say about me that I was pretty sure you were about to link their collab on Tom Green's magnum opus?
 
@MikeQ Dammit, I was about to make the same joke :D
 
Ben
Oh, there's a question: who likes planning things from a player's perspective?
 
@ACuriousMind Honestly, modify as much as you like; although I'd advise against deviating too far from the story without some experience, as generating a compelling story can be difficult for new GMs
 
9:29 PM
@Ben Certain players do.
 
(NGL: I'm actually pretty sincerely onboard with resurrecting Auteur Theory but only using terrible Directors/Movies as evidence/examples of it)
 
Ben
@MikeQ Who here enjoys that. Lol
I have a game where we have to assault an island hideout.
 
@ACuriousMind It's a half-joke. I've run into the issue before, where I wanted to run a prebuilt campaign, and eventually modified so many aspects that the final product only retained the setting and some notable NPCs and lore. So eventually I asked myself "What exactly am I running here? And why?"
@Ben Certain players here do.
 
Ben
My character is ex-military, so if I can come up with a tactically sound plan, we get some bonuses.
 
"Lessons from the Screenplay" by Michael Tucker.
"CinemaTyler," an in-depth look into the construction of some of cinema’s greatest movies.
 
9:34 PM
@MikeQ You are running a homebrew campaign, stealing some elements from a module. I do that all the time.
 
@Xirema Then check out Kallgren's video I linked above.
 
@DavidCoffron Not quite. This was the other way around. I wanted to preserve the primary themes and elements of the campaign, but I disliked so much of the prewritten material that I kept modifying and modifying.
 
@DavidCoffron True enough. Although I've often found that deviations from the story come not primarily from the GM but from the players doing something the module never accounted for.
 
@DavidCoffron But I've had moderate success with taking a module and hacking it to fit the time constraints, as well as the players' desired level of play. E.g. reducing a 2-3 session module into a 4 hr one-shot, or modifying the encounters for a higher/lower level party.
 
@ACuriousMind Yeah, that can be a tough thing. In my game just this past Saturday I had to improvise an entire sewer sequence because they wanted to find out if there was a Kobold Warren in the sewers (one of the players is a Kobold and they wanted to utilize a Warren as a resource). There was no Warren, but I tried to make the sewer interesting to some degree.
 
9:37 PM
It depends heavily on the play-style whether pre-planned stories work out or not. Some groups enjoy "buying in" to a story and trying their best to follow it, but I often play with more chaotic groups. Not in the murderhobo sense, but simply making moves the GM/the module writer had not planned for in advance.
And, in fact, reacting and improvising to these unforeseen actions is what I enjoy most about GMing. If my players just followed along exactly what I had planned I would be somewhat disappointed
 
@MikeQ Honestly, the former isn't that hard (although it does take some finesse). I've had much more difficulty stretching modules out (a week long convention, but the module is probably going to be finished in 3 days, so what do I do for the other 2-3)
 
@DavidCoffron Again it depends. If you compress a longer module into a shorter one-shot, you risk disrupting the pacing and saturating the content, which may lead to railroading in order to get through the material
 
I enjoy seeing how "my" world twists and evolves in collaboration with them. When they do something unforeseen, go looking for a clue or location I had not even considered, they're telling me what they want to see in the game, and it's thoroughly fun to oblige.
 
@DavidCoffron Roleplay staring at paint on a wall drying.
 
@MikeQ When I shorten modules, I just cut stuff. I find what is the most vital aspect of the story, and either narrate the rest as pre-session interlude or just skip it
 
9:49 PM
"Your leg's cramping up, roll Fortitude".
 
@Yuuki I would love to do a one-battle one-shot in a hyper-realistic system. I think it would be a fun experiment
 
@DavidCoffron If you want hyperrealism, you may want a system that models something simpler than humanoids
 
a single encounter over the course of 4 hours. Maybe a castle seige or a throne room heist
 
Maybe a microscopic combat system, protozoa vs protozoa
 
@MikeQ Battle of the Protozoa!
Dammit, you ninja'd me again :D
 
9:52 PM
@ACuriousMind Great minds think.
Maybe there is more to that phrase, but I know that part at least is true
 
@DavidCoffron Sometimes.
 
@Yuuki Don't go dropping qualifiers on my remarks :P
 
Ben
Equal and opposite. Sometimes sub-par minds think, and sometimes great minds have a temporary lapse
 
If it's prologue and epilogue, is it interlogue? (I used interlude earlier, but now I'm unsure)
 
Ben
@DavidCoffron Google says yes?
@DavidCoffron I think "interlude" is kind of like a break.
 
9:54 PM
@Ben That's it! Great minds think, and when they don't they check Google.
 
Ben
@DavidCoffron So accurate
So accurate that needs to be on a shirt
 
Ben
I am having very strong urges to make this happen
 
@Ben Haha. I had that thought about something last week, but now I forgot what that something was so probably wasn't that profound
 
Ben
My last great one was "Wednesday"
That is never worn on a Wednesday
Subtle humour is something I enjoy.
 
9:58 PM
@Ben Then people will just think you're a fan of Sheffield sports.
 
@DavidCoffron Alternatively, I propose a spin of Yuuki's idea. Competitive paint-drying-watching.
No dice, no pen & paper, no rulebook
 
@BESW Wait, which part is spinning? I doubt the whole thing is or someone's going to be rolling on the floor, clutching their knees/thighs.
 
@Yuuki The painting is static, and everything else is spinning
 
Ben
10:06 PM
@MikeQ That statement is setting off my vertigo. Lol
 
6
Q: Does the Giant Rocktopus have a Swim Speed?

MerudoThe Giant Rocktopus described in Out of the Abyss (p.28) is said to be a Giant Octopus that evolved to live on land. It has a walking speed of 20 feet and a climbing speed of 10 feet. Nothing is mentioned about a swim speed, though. Does this mean the Rocktopus has the Giant Octopus 60' swim sp...

 
@BESW Anyhow, are you considering modifying a prewritten adventure? Or did someone modify a prewritten adventure in a way you dislike?
 
@MikeQ I think it was meant as an analogy to "Should a director modify a screenplay" rather than an actual question
 
@MikeQ Oh, I'm totally down to modify adventures as soon as I'm moderately comfortable with the system, or before. I was reflecting on auteur theory and the interaction between different creators on a single creative work.
 
Ben
10:48 PM
Dang it
I was literally half a second too late to post an answer
Got closed as unclear/too broad when it was (IMO) a "talk to the GM" problem
 
@Ben I love this fact "the saga comes to an end" ... that Billy Dee Williams is in it .. and that after this, I never need to see that useless Kilo Ren garbage anymore.
 
Ben
> I understand that approaching our GM about the issue would be the much more reasonable way to settle this problem but ... where's the fun in that?
Yeesh...
@KorvinStarmast Wow... that's like when my friend (an avid FromSoftware fan) said he "hated" Sekiro
Just such an out of the blue, polar-opposite response
 
Kilo Ren is the jar jar binks of the last trilogy. Utter crap
 
Ben
@KorvinStarmast I do feel like Lucas is going to see that as a challenge though "It's my franchise. I say when it ends."
@KorvinStarmast Agree to disagree? Haha
 
heh, I am now AFK, chicken garam masala ... talk to you in a bit.
 
11:13 PM
I mean, Kylo Ren is a whiney little child with a lot of power, in a way I think that's an ingenious Star Wars villain
 
I wonder if Kylo Ren died in the first movie, he'd have that fan adoration that Maul and Boba Fett have despite being bit players that ultimately die.
 
It doesn't mean he is anything less than annoying but I think that's what he is supposed to be
 
@trogdor He's literally a Star Wars self-insert character from fanfiction but a villain and it's hilarious.
And I love it.
 
@Yuuki yeah but they are self aware about it
If they weren't I would be more annoyed by that
Also, apparently some people take him too seriously and somehow think he's cool? I don't get that
I do think he's a little hilarious though
 
One of the things that really helps the new trilogy hold together is that thematically it's about itself: the characters, like the films, are a new generation that is trying to find their own identity in the shadow of a previous generation which was mythologized far out of proportion so that the legend is far greater than the reality and nothing can possibly live up to it.
 
11:18 PM
@BESW well also, Kylo Ren is the last person who should be trying
He's ridiculously childish
 
Ben and the Order represent the urge to mold themselves in the image of the legend that was never real, obsessing over the superficial trappings and going bigger in order to compensate for the impossibility of making a legend real.
 
(It's not a moon, it's a planet!)
 
For me it isn't about how much power he has, his problem is down to his personality, or in some respects his sacrifice of even having one in an attempt to be like Vader
Which he will never succeed at
Which yes is actually kinda hilarious
@BESW that is probably why I think he actually fits in so well with theses bad guys
 
Absolutely. His insecurity about living up to the legend of his family manifests as an overpowering need for control at any price, and an inability to handle a lack of control.
 
Ben
11:21 PM
I will legitimately be upset if they do not end up in a "Grey Jedi" situation
 
They are all overcompensating so dang hard
 
@Ben I'm mostly just hoping that they don't get cold feet and back off the theme of dismantling a dynastic view of history.
 
@BESW are you worried by the title of the upcoming movie?
 
@trogdor ....yes.
 
I saw Kylo's arc as someone without a purpose of their own. In VII, he was latching onto Snoke and what he pictured of Vader. And in VIII, he's moved on to rejecting anyone's goals, but "rejecting the past" isn't really a purpose.
 
11:27 PM
"The Rise of Skywalker " kinda makes it sound like they might be going in a bad direction
 
Up, mainly.
 
Lol
 
Ben
@Yuuki Maybe JJ is an avid LoZ fan?
 
@Yuuki well, I see that as barely meaning anything, ok he's killed Smoke,... But he didn't really reject anything, he's just taking over what Smoke made and doing what he's always been trying to do
 
@trogdor there is... another another skywalker
 
11:30 PM
You know what they say, "early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy, and dramatically lacking in a coherent narrative theme".
 
He's in charge now but he's still the same idiot XD
 
@Yuuki Early to rise and early to bed makes a man healthy but socially dead.
 
@MikeQ there's like, fifty Skywalker's
 
Ben
@trogdor Also - I am very confused about that. There is no Skywalker.
 
@trogdor Exactly, it doesn't mean anything because his arc hasn't completed.
 
11:32 PM
@Ben admittedly some of them are dead
 
Ben
[Insert appropriately excessive amounts of "?"]
 
@Yuuki I agree
But the larger point about the whole Skywalker thing is, some of us don't want that name to become more important than anything else in the franchise
 
@Ben Do not try to bend the Skywalker.
 
It's not about how many of them are left
It's about how important the name actually is, and does it overshadow other things or make the whole story about legacy?
I mean technically Kylo is a Solo and a Skywalker
 
Ben
Luke is gone. Leia was only Skywalker by association. And Rei has no association at all, other than she met him that one time.
 
11:36 PM
If they mean him through,... He did his rising already, he's in charge already
 
Ben
It's frustrating because this whole thing just screams "Grey Jedi" but it doesn't appear to be happening
 
I vote for the movie to consist entirely of George Lucas on a barstool lecturing the viewers about their inability to let go of a decades long story that had a satisfactory ending.
 
@Ben @BESW and I could be worried they will walk back how unimportant Rey's heritage is and have her be a Skywalker
 
I mean, that's basically what episode VIII was.
 
Or do something extremely silly and I'll advised story wise with Kylo
 
Ben
11:38 PM
@Yuuki HL2:Ep2. The story ends there, at a non-ending.
 
...it turns out Ezra Bridger is a secret triplet sibling of Luke and Leia?
 
Wtv it happens to be
 
Ben
@trogdor That would be a very strong incentive to just either scream at the cinema screen, or bail on the movie
 
It could be dumb
Or it could be not as dumb
 
in The Bridge, Apr 12 at 19:12, by Yuuki
@Unionhawk The Force should be a power available to all life and concentrating it in the hands of one family is not egalitarian. Take back the means of midichlorian production! #EatTheSkywalkers
 
11:39 PM
@Yuuki Only if William Shatner is interviewing him.
 
Ben
But seriously... she's wearing grey the whole damn time
 
@Yuuki lol
 
Ben
And she has an affinity for both sides, with an ambiguous incentive.
 
@Ben but what is the significance of that if she is already not technically a Jedi?
 
Ben
Well she's never going to get her Certificate of Completion.
 
11:41 PM
Depending at least on how you clasify a Jedi
 
 
She wasn't taught very much specifically about Jedi Order stuff
 
Ben
It'll be up to her to say "Uhh, yeah? I guess? I mean... I think so? What you think Yoda?"
 
That's also one way to classify it sure
 
11:45 PM
She was specifically not taught very much about the Jedi Order.
 
I'm hoping Ep 9 will be mostly R2-D2, Chewie, and BB8 having nonverbal interactions
 
@Yuuki yeah, exactly
And I'm not saying this like she doesn't deserve the title of Jedi, I'm saying this like "what does Jedi bmean now anymore?"
Keeping in mind the last person to learn actual Jedi stuff is dead
Rey is a new thing, hopefully
That's what is exciting in my opinion
 
I feel like the theme of TLJ was very clearly that the confining the Force to Jedi/Sith type categories is part of the reason for all the problems in the franchise; that the Force surrounds and penetrates and binds everyone and its use shouldn't be turned into an exclusive club.
 
I mean, she still has the sacred Jedi texts! *lightning bolt*, but I hope that just means old EU lore about Tython becomes canon again.
 
Theory: The Skywalker is what Lando re-names the Millennium Falcon.
 
Ben
11:53 PM
@MikeQ That's the Director's commentary
@trogdor Grey Jedi. Lol.
The whole situation is just pushing for it
"End of an Era… start of a new thing"
Sorry to be the broken record. It's just really getting to me haha
@BESW This is acceptable to me hahaha
 
@Ben fair enough XD
I wasn't sure what way you meant that
 

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