TRPG General Chat

trogdor

12:00 AM

That's actually kinda true

To be fair

It's not like we don't use em

Ben

12:13 AM

@trogdor @BESW just out of curiosity, what do you guys do for work?

user15026

@trogdor Chickpeas are a food I like but I am bad at remembering exist.

BESW

@Ben I'm a freelance graphic designer with a specialty in print media and an indigenous intersectionality focus.

Ben

Oh cool

BESW

My most regular jobs are things like literary magazines, theater posters, and university newsletters. Occasionally I do logos and training manuals, whatever comes up.

I also sometimes train people to use common programs.

Ben

I did do a bit of graphics design in my earlier years. I came up with a couple of logos actually.

trogdor

12:21 AM

I wear a bunch of hats honestly

3D modeling, website building, data entry, a tiny little bit of coding,

Oh and some accessibility training

Ben

Soul and Soul Surf clothing

trogdor

For section 508 compliance stuff

MikeQ

@trogdor As opposed to people who wear multiple hats in a dishonest way?

Ben

I did do those when I was 13 though. Lol

trogdor

@MikeQ lol

No just admitting that I might have forgotten some of the stuff this job entails

Ben

12:24 AM

@trogdor Nice. Do you work freelance as well?

BESW

trogdor

Like I almost didn't remember the accessibility stuff because it was about two years ago and is buried under all the data entry atm

@Ben I don't actually, that's all stuff I do at the office

Well technically not always right at the office but for the same job

Ben

Oh right haha. Your job description sounds a bit like mine. Lol

trogdor

Basically I do what I'm needed to do

And if I don't know how I get trained in it

Technically I haven't done any work on the accessibility stuff besides get trained in India and then go to a conference where I had to speak on it

Ben

"Hey Ben, you did coding in school right? ...Hey Ben, you've been doing a bit of stuff here and there on the network, could you help set up some networking stuff? ...Hey Ben, you know how our network runs now, could you run and manage our system-wide EDMS?"

trogdor

12:28 AM

Both were a little scary but also rewarding

@Ben hehe

Ben

My answer to each of those requests in turn was "...yyyyyyeeees…"

BESW

Yeah, I get a lot of "Oh, you did X that means you can do Y too" jobs, too.

Ben

@BESW Gotta love that.

BESW

"Okay, time to learn how to do coffee table book layout... trilingually..."

trogdor

Seems like it isn't an uncommon experience

In general I mean

BESW

12:29 AM

"...while also being a cultural translator for this super haole project manager..."

Ben

@BESW You can draw pictures, yeah? Can you do up blueprints of this building for me?

trogdor

I have not been asked to do any network stuff or any insane graphic design adjacency things

Shalvenay

@Ben LOL! I actually am the one who's been moonlighting as a draftsperson these days

nitsua60

@Ash have you read 11/22/63?

Ben

I think that is a clear line in the overall "I.T" based industries - I.e. Design and "everything else"

nitsua60

12:31 AM

There's a pantry wormhole (sorta) that features prominently.

user15026

@nitsua60 It does not sound familiar. looks it up

nitsua60

@Ash Stephen King

Kennedy assassination.

user15026

Ah, no, I have not, I don't read much King

trogdor

I don't read any King

Ben

@Shalvenay My old man was in that. He's a sparky by trade and was just sort of shoe-horned into becoming a draftsman. Has been now for 40+ years haha

linksassin

12:32 AM

I believe what you guys are referring to is what created the "Full stack" developer... Who needs multiple experts in their field? We have one engineer they can just know everything right?

nitsua60

I'll drop a line in the NAB, so as not to spoil.

Ben

@trogdor I thought King was a wrestler.

user15026

I work in tech support for fixed point wireless, DSL, some domain hosting stuff, VOIP, IPTV, a little cable internet, and a little fibre internet. (Wow, I didn't realize I wore so many hats). Plus one shift a week I am...the entire company (accounting, sales, tech support) all on my own :P

Ben

trogdor

@Ben he's literally the only character I've ever used in that game

Ben

12:35 AM

Same haha

trogdor

To be fair I only played it a couple times when a friend brought it over

Ben

I haven't played in years. I think I stopped at Tekken 5. The lack of split-screen play has a fairly severe impact on these style of games.

Shalvenay

@linksassin heheheh....

Ben

@Ash How many times have you said "have you tried turning it off and on again" in an 8 hour period?"

trogdor

@Ash nice

user15026

12:38 AM

@Ben Considering I say that at least once in most calls I take...many, many times.

user15026

It does actually fix a lot of things!

trogdor

It does!

I use it all the time for myself

user15026

@trogdor I'd never really laid it all out like that before. I tend to think of myself as a kinda useless drone bee, but...hey look there are the things.

trogdor

XD

Ben

Oh indeed. When you watch the IT crowd, you think it's a joke. But for those of us who know... it makes so much sense

user15026

12:39 AM

@trogdor Saaaame

user15026

@Ben It does! There's a reason it makes such a good joke, because....yeah.

trogdor

@Ash I've laid it out for myself specifically because I was surprised upon getting a job that this happened, that I've been asked to do so many different things

user15026

Also working in tech support has not taught me that tech isn't magic - if anything, I believe the internet is running on popsicle sticks, tape, and a whole lot of secret spells moreso no.

linksassin

My sister has implemented a policy at her work. "If i can find the answer on the first page of google you owe me a coffee"

user15026

@linksassin I'd be swimming in coffee!

linksassin

12:40 AM

She didn't buy a coffee for 6 months until people learned to stop bothering her with stupid questions.

Ben

@linksassin [hysterical laughter]

nitsua60

I do it with my brain every night, personally.

trogdor

@linksassin that's an excellent idea

linksassin

You might be interested in this site: lmgtfy.com

Ben

@Ash That reminds me of "the internet".

linksassin

12:41 AM

It's the best passive aggressive response when people won't take a hit but it still helps them a bit.

user15026

@linksassin nah, that's just rudeness

linksassin

@Ash It's only for repeat offenders. Terminal cases

user15026

I mean...I can't help that I breathe this stuff, not everyone does.

Shalvenay

@Ash yes, there is a computer equivalent of popsicle sticks and tape ;) it's "code that you wrote 3 weeks/months/years ago in a berserk rush to fix something, so you had no time to design anything surrounding it"

or go back in and refactor

user15026

@Shalvenay or the good old "oh I made that ages ago I didn't think we'd still be using it now"

Shalvenay

12:43 AM

or give any forethought to the next poor sod who reads it

@Ash that too. XD

user15026

"It was supposed to be a patch!"

user15026

(I am in no way a dev of any kind, but I know a good pile of 'em.)

Shalvenay

@Ash "fix to the fix to the fix just promoted"

user15026

I'm the one on the phone teaching the farmers how to reprogram their routers so their milking robots go back to working

user15026

(90% of our clientbase is rural)

Shalvenay

12:44 AM

@Ash yeah, that probably doesn't help things...not in terms of the userbase, but in terms of the sheer variety of problems you can run into

user15026

@Shalvenay Oh yes.

Ben

@Shalvenay When someone tells me about their "state of the art network" that's all I can see - how many patches does it have?

That said... the support network is also very important. I have a friend whose support network is "delete your browser cache".

This is their reply to everything. Like when Word crashes.

BESW

2 days ago, by BESW

@Ash Yes, this: effective searching is entirely predicated on being able to speak in ways that the Google machine learning patterns can pick up on.

Ben

What I say: I'm a programmer.
What I mean: I can google better than the average bear.

Anon works IT for anyone who has yet to read it.

And part 2

The reason I asked was actually because I'm looking at creating a help desk for the EDMS system I'm reselling, for the Asia-Pacific region, and since you guys live in Guam (ie. a similar time zone to me) it sparked my curiosity.

V2Blast

1:06 AM

EDMS = electronic document management system?

user15026

giggles a fair part of my job is "let me look into that for you" which is code for "I AM FRANTICALLY GOOGLING"

Ben

@V2Blast Yes

V2Blast

@Ben there's obviously some NSFW language in there, including some ableist language. just a heads-up

Ben

Which makes "EDMS System" the same as "ATM Machine". Lol

@V2Blast Oh whoops... my b D:

In other news... My commission for my Savage Worlds ex-military Spiderman; "Huntsman" is finished.

V2Blast

ooh

very nice

Yuuki

1:14 AM

Now please make Renew Your Vows Spider-Man canon.

Ben

@Yuuki ?

The Artist - Valwing (Potential NSFW warning).

Huntsman was one of a few dis-honorable discharge candidates enlisted in a project as a means to remove the "dishonorable" flag. (I.e. enlist in the program as a last resort to make amends). 90% of all the candiates enrolled in the program either went mad in one way or another, or died after being subjected to DNA altering medical practices. He was one of the few to survive, with his sanity (mostly) intact - though he relied on alcohol as a coping mechanism.

Now, the agency has been closed down, his record has been redacted (i.e. he was not absolved of his dishonourable discharge - though no record of his service exists anymore anyway). So now he operates as a vigilante, with a bunch of other freelance "superheroes"

Though he did recently kick his alcoholism. 3 months sober :D

Glazius

2:08 AM

##heading formatting##

is also a thing in markdown?

Shalvenay

## heading

or # heading

Glazius

Apparently there's also ###tiny heading

I think I've wanted to get a third one on a couple big answers.

Shalvenay

@Glazius at least you haven't brushed up against the 30k char limit on SE answers

Ben

I keep forgetting that we have a client by the name of Wade Wilson.

Glazius

Does his file have a lot of post-it notes?

Ben

2:16 AM

Haha no. It just catches me off guard every time his name comes up.

Half the people in the office are too "professional" to pay his name any real attention. And I daresay he likely gets enough flak for it already haha

nitsua60

61

Q: Use real headers instead of fake headers

It's a somewhat common habit at RPG.se to use bold sentences to make the appearance of a header for a section of text, rather than using our existing header formatting. This is probably because it's a common hack elsewhere on the Internet where heading formatting isn't available, and because the ...

Glazius

@nitsua60 Yeah, mostly I've been using equals signs and hyphens.

yo

@GeoffreyLim Oi?

YOOooo

2:30 AM

you*?

@Glazius I had some friends from Canada visit once. We played a card game, and one of them played out of turn. I said "Oi!", and they were so confused. They hadn't heard anyone make that sound before lol

Glazius

@Ben Truly, it is a nation of uncommon politeness.

Ben

Indubitably

Geoffrey Lim

War of the spark trailer for any RP's in the post bolas Ravnica

or during the war I guess

Ben

@GeoffreyLim I think I'm lacking context here

So one of the trickiest things I am currently facing for my Diablo campaign is creating more of a storyline that involves the characters more directly.

Some of the characters are fine - they're just quest givers. But others, like Wirt and Griswold, serve little purpose.

Geoffrey Lim

WOTC just released a trailer for a world changing event in their Ravnica settings, a universe they just released an official RP book for

just wondering how the thing will change the setting

Ben

2:44 AM

There are also some quests that need similar treatment - they serve little purpose in the scheme of things, that might be able to serve a more story-driven purpose

MikeQ

@Ben Some of them can just be cameos. They don't all need some grand story purpose. Griswold could be the blacksmith who, if the PCs are on good terms, can identify properties of their magical (and/or corrupted) items.

Ben

@MikeQ Yeah. Not everyone needs a "purpose", just some way to incorporate them into the story. Like Gillian, for example. She's just the barmaid.

MikeQ

As long as you have a handful of NPCs who are involved in the overarching story, you don't need to tie in all the other NPCs to the story

Don't overdo the (back)story interconnections. I don't know what that trope is called, but I call it the "LOST effect"

Ben

I suppose I'm just thinking of ways to incorporate NPCs into the story. Like, in the original story, Wirt and Griswold have already escaped the dungeon. In the campaign, that can sort of be pushed forward a little... Make it a bit more involved. Wirt runs away to try and "be brave" and Griswold chases him down and saves him. That can happen after the party has already started adventuring.

But for say, Adria and Cain, they're probably the main two NPCs, that become the most important NPCs later in the story. Their importance needs to grow over time

Miniman

3:00 AM

@Ben [Pushes up glasses] Well, actually: Griswold's Anvil of Fury quest ties into the Hellforge, which makes it arguably the most significant quest in terms of the greater story.

Ben

...true...

Miniman

And Wirt...'s leg has magical properties in some way linked to a realm of Hell Bovines, I guess?

Ben

That is however, more of a precursor to future adventures.

Within the scope of the first game, they're both just means to spend excess gold

Miniman

@Ben Or the party could save them both? Protagonists are proactive and all that.

Ben

@Miniman Yes. That is an idea

Glazius

3:03 AM

Hmm. Well, this is inspired by the front page but I can't really ask it as a question. How to get Tiamat as a Ranger: 0) play Dungeon World with a DM who's cool with you having a Tiamat. 1) Unnatural Ally, your pet is now a hydra. 2) Special Trick, you now have a Collector's Collection of magic hydra food and can make your hydra breathe anything at Ritual scale.

Ben

Just want to basically incorporate them into the story. Not just be sideliners with relevant conversational prompts

Miniman

Saving NPCs who then offer you their services is a classic trope for a reason, and Diablo used it a fair bit, albeit later in the series.

@Ben Hmmm...Wirt could be someone's kid. For some reason Lachdanan springs to mind.

Ben

@Miniman Wow... waaooowwww That is good

Miniman

@Ben Thanks! I guess it's process of elimination, really. He can't be the kid of any surviving NPCs, obviously, and it'd be stupid if he was royalty or something. That only leaves Lazarus and Lachdanan, and it'd be pretty weird if he was Lazarus's.

Ben

I feel like I'm going to get caught up in the Lachdanan quest haha

@Miniman Lol. True

Miniman

3:09 AM

Or, yanno, he could be Diablo's kid and have some crazy plot in future games that leads to him becoming the next incarnation of Diablo in a ridiculous yet predictable plot twist...nah, that'd suck.

Ben

Haha.

Miniman

@Ben I did get the impression you really liked Lachdanan - which is fair enough, he's a really underused, actually sympathetic, tragic hero.

Ben

Or maybe he is Lazarus' kid, and is inspired by his father's magics and practices that he tries to somehow summon the assistance of demons in order to regain control over the demons that are rising up from the cathedral depths, only to link his soul to the cows in the back paddock, that in a weird twist of events, warp to an alternate plain and become violently sentient

[scribbles notes]

Miniman

@Ben Heh heh heh, alternate plain. I don't know if it was deliberate, but either way, noice.

Ben

[cough] sure. Haha

CTWind

3:15 AM

Hmm. It was Pepin that gave Wirt the leg, though. Did Wirt make it magical himself, or was it Pepin (or whoever Pepin got it from)?

V2Blast

@Miniman The true DM's secret: it's always intentional, even when it's not :P

MikeQ

@Ben So you are doing a secret cow encounter?

Or should I say... Encownter

Miniman

@CTWind Ooooh, what if Pepin is secretly evil, and getting healed by him is actually corrupting the heroes?

Ben

@MikeQ The Cow Level does not exist.... [shifty eyes]

Well the leg could just be a leg. Nothing special, just a piece of wood

But Pepin really is way too innocent to not be evil...

V2Blast

@Ben I understood that reference... somehow

Ben

3:26 AM

In one quick playthrough that I did, one player was obsessed with trying to identify whether or not Farnham was a Zombie

[Foreshadowing]

Ben

4:06 AM

Hmmmm… so I just did a bit of research, and the ruins of Tristram (in D2) have a few corpses, to apparently mark Ogden and Pepin, but there's nothing identifiable about them...

[skepticism intensifies]

Axoren

I lasted 2 minutes into April Fool's day before someone on mic told me my pocket fell during our game, and I looked.

They weren't even in the same state as me.

Miniman

@Ben I'm looking forward to playing that bit again having spent more than an hour or so in D1.

linksassin

4:27 AM

@Ben The cow level always exists... I nearly had undead cows last session.

Ben

Cows don't kill people

MikeQ

For hell bovines, just reuse the stat block of your minotaur barbarian

Ben

@MikeQ Which works really well, because all he ever said was "angry mooing"

Roll to moo

Moo with advantage

4:42 AM

Yep that's pretty much how I remember that level

Ben

> You step through the portal, and you are met with the smell of damp grass and mud. The fog clouds your vision, limiting your view to about 20 feet. Suddenly, a long, low moo breaks the silence. After a few more seconds, it is followed by another, then another, until you are surrounded by the sound of cattle, and hooves padding towards you.

> Suddenly the wall of fog breaks to reveal a bovine, standing on its back legs, mooing aggressively and wielding two axes. It moos again loudly as more break through the wall of fog, carrying swords and maces.

> It begins.

user15026

@BESW this wins for most ridiculous thing I have giggled at today.

BESW

@Ash And you have giggled at very ridiculous things today!

Ben

> Wait, is that cow wearing... a crown?

I mean [AHEM] of course there is no cow level!

Ohhh… perhaps Wirt was rambling about "crazy cows" just as Tristram was mysteriously burned to the ground... [scribbles notes]

user15026

4:57 AM

@BESW this is true today has been full of giggles and bubble feelings

Ben

5:44 AM

@Glazius My confusion is why is it being referred to as "a" Tiamat?

or "the" Tiamat

MikeQ

Maybe Tiamat is a common name somewhere?

BESW

I once played in a game that had "a" Tarrasque. ...and another, and another...

Ben

@BESW Well, I mean isn't Tiamat the Creature's name, rather than being the name of the species?

MikeQ

I thought the Tiamat was just 5 dragons sharing a shirt

BESW

Yeah, "Tiamat" is just what they call the shirt.

MikeQ

5:49 AM

Or perhaps "Tiamat" is the collective term for dragons

Like a school of fish, herd of cows, or fluffle of bunnies

BESW

The collective noun for dragons is "a smugness" or "a scheming," depending on context.

Ben

I am just picturing a group of dragons all sitting around chuckling contentedly among themselves "fufufufu"

trogdor

@BESW why you little XP

linksassin

@BESW I'm pretty sure the most common collective noun is "thunder" of dragons...

Hot RPG Questions

4

Q: How can the PCs determine if an item is a phylactery?

To kill a Lich the PCs must first destroy the lich's phylactery. From the Monster's Manual we know the basic physical description of this item: A phylactery is traditionally an amulet in the shape of a small box, but it can take the form of any item possessing an interior space into which arc...

dnd-5e magic-items undead

BESW

5:56 AM

@Ben A dragon's tea is always piping hot.

Ben

@linksassin quora.com/What-is-a-group-of-dragons-called

There are a few. I like "a Council"

BESW

In most of my settings, it would be a détente of dragons.

Ben

In Discworld, dragons are lowly creatures prone to exploding due to chemical imbalances in their bodies, and are for from the apex predator. thus referred to as an "embarrassment" of dragons

linksassin

If we're talking D&D I guess it should be a "tyranny"

BESW

I usually subscribe to the Swann theory of dragons, which holds that each dragon considers itself as powerful and important as a human nation--and they're usually very isolationist and nationalist.

Ben

6:02 AM

And when it comes to Dragonriders, and all associated, a "weyr" pr dragons is the phrase used

@BESW Same. Maybe that's why there isn't any dedicated term

linksassin

@BESW True, I highly doubt dragons would take kindly to any collective term for them

kviiri

I think it's kinda funny that the first jokes about collective nouns are about as old as the idea of having increasingly specific collective nouns

BESW

I incorporated that into my D&D 4e campaign, which was set in the ancient dragonborn empire of Arkhosia.

Ben

Perspective may also play a role. E.g to them, we might be referred to as a "herd".

kviiri

Ah yes, Lost Arkhosia

linksassin

6:05 AM

@kviiri collective nouns are kind of like a permanent pun. The best one sticks

BESW

I revealed that Arkhosia was actually a federation of dragonstates, with each dragon considering its state to be its own personal hoard and working to improve the wealth, craft, and quality of life of its subjects as a form of competition with each other dragon in the federation.

Ben

@linksassin A riot of Kookaburras

kviiri

What d'ya mean, herd of cows? I've even seen them, my man!

Ben

Which would make probably more sense to Australians than anyone else. Lol

kviiri

I was also kinda freaked out when I first learned that "kitten" isn't cat-exclusive

BESW

6:07 AM

The "emperor" of Arkhosia was actually a psychopomp, a religious leader more than a secular one.

linksassin

@Ben A catastrophe of Drop-bears.

kviiri

I think I was watching Watership Down and the rabbits at some point realize they don't have any doves. I was like "wait what?!" and then they follow it up by saying thay without doves they can't have any kittens.

BESW

Was that a translation?

'cause the word is doe. Like a female deer.

Ben

@linksassin Apparently there is no collective noun for koalas

BESW

(And while "kitten" is used, "kit" is more common.)

kviiri

6:10 AM

@BESW No, I think I just misremembered

BESW

@Ben A cagematch of koalas.

linksassin

@Ben Fair enough, have you ever seen them in a group?

trogdor

I don't think they called thier women doves though

Ben

@linksassin Which is apparently part of the reason their is no phrase

MikeQ

A splinter faction of koalas

kviiri

6:12 AM

The English pronounce it as "duvet"

linksassin

@Ben A 'grump' of Koalas is the best suggestion I've seen. Though 'nap' is also good

MikeQ

A theocratic nation-state of koalas

kviiri

(doo-VAY)

BESW

A free clinic of koalas.

kviiri

Koalas' Front of Judea

Ben

6:14 AM

A collective noun of Koalas

BESW

A transmission of koalas?

MikeQ

Would the same subspecies (color?) of dragon be given a collective noun?

i.e. do dragons oppose being grouped with dragons of different colorations, or do they dislike being grouped in general

Ben

@MikeQ Like a Thunder of Blue Dragons and a Blaze of Red Dragons?

kviiri

A Revolution of Reds, a Band of Blues, a Serving of Greens

linksassin

@MikeQ I.e. A bonfire of red dragons? or a glacier of white dragons?

BESW

6:17 AM

A chuckle of Coppers?

Ben

@BESW fufufufufu

BESW

A righteousness of Golds.

kviiri

You're nicked! br Mr Copper of Trotsford-upon-the-River police department

MikeQ

So why is it unlikely in D&Dverse that dragons would rule as a council, or royal family, or some other form of leadership with 2 or more figures

Ben

Does "council" or "parliament" carry over to Owlbears?

kviiri

6:19 AM

I kinda wanted to avoid the blacks and whites in case we went into bad territory

A brewery of owlbeers

linksassin

@kviiri I realised that as soon as I posted it.

BESW

@Ben A quorum of Owlbears.

Ben

A nightmare of Mindflayers

linksassin

@MikeQ Dragons are highly individualistic and narcissistic. Such a group wouldn't last very long before being brought down by internal squabbles. The "chroma conclave" of critical role only loosely wanted the same thing and would have destroyed themselves given enough time

MikeQ

@linksassin Is that established somewhere in D&D? Or do we just assume it from the broader universe of high fantasy stuff?

Ben

6:24 AM

@linksassin Why does that remind me of Ausralian politics

MikeQ

@Ben Considering their psychic link, I'd call them a "local network" of mindflayers

BESW

In my D&D campaigns, more than two dragons have only ever worked together in two conditions: one is when united under a specific dragon god for a specific purpose, and the other is when the Dragon Orbs are being misused.

Ben

@MikeQ A wifi of Mindflayers

BESW

@kviiri An adjournment of owlbears?

linksassin

@MikeQ I'm pretty sure it's in the lore descriptions of the dragons somewhere. I don't have access to the books at the moment to look it up though.

@Ben Divisive self interest and backstabbing? No idea why that would remind you of Australian federal politics....

BESW

6:26 AM

@MikeQ It's explicit in 3.5, at least.

MikeQ

How do dragon families work? Do they live with their offspring and/or mates?

Ben

> Chromatic dragons are united by their sense of superiority, believing themselves the most powerful and worthy of all mortal creatures. When they interact with other creatures, it is only to further their own interests. They believe in their innate right to rule, and this belief is the cornerstone of every chromatic
dragon's personality and worldview. Trying to humble a chromatic dragon is like trying to convince the wind to stop blowing. To these creatures, humanoids are
animals, fit to serve as prey or beasts of burden, and wholly unworthy of respect.

MM p. 86

BESW

Depending on the color, they tend to divide into three categories: both parents raise the kids to sufficiency and then split; one parent splits immediately, the remaining parent raises the kids and then splits; or they leave the egg to its own devices and even if they happen to meet the kid later on they don't care.

You never find three generations of D&D dragons living together.

MikeQ

So dragons basically behave like superintelligent flying hamsters?

Ben

That is an incredible comparison

BESW

6:29 AM

MikeQ

Individualistic, territorial, greedy, hungry, aggressive, and likely to devour its young

BESW

...so what are guinea pigs in this scenario?

MikeQ

Guinea pigs almost always live in bonded pairs

BESW

Yeah, they're like how most people THINK hamsters are.

Affectionate, social, etc.

...wait, are couatls guinea pigs?

Ben

They are often referred to as such.

In appearance mostly

MikeQ

6:33 AM

@BESW Maybe two liches, each of whom is the other's phylactery

Ben

"like adorable giant guinea pigs" is the common phrase

@MikeQ Oh dear.

Well that has to be a story arc now

BESW

Coati; couatl.

Ben

Ohhhh wait

brain fart

linksassin

@MikeQ That's a terrifying and disturbing situation...

Ben

I was very confused there. I was thinking of Capybaras

MikeQ

6:35 AM

@linksassin Not if you clean the enclosure regularly

BESW

Laurence Yep's Dragon of the Lost Sea has a witch who turned a sea into a pebble, and in the process imbued most of her magical power into the rock.

It's an interesting parallel to the phylactery, as she doesn't die when the sea is released, but all the power it took to bind the sea is available to draw on while she has the pebble but is lost forever when the sea is released.

Ben

@MikeQ I'm picturing a jealous pair of Siamese twins. Like when one gets a girlfriend.

[To fill in the gaps, I got tied up in the distinction between deprecate and depreciate, since they would technically be bound to eachother, and liches don't really work well in... well... any group larger than 1]

MikeQ

Why can't liches team up?

Ben

Not saying they can't.

BESW

"After all, in my experience, one wizard's lonely, two's an argument, and three adds up to two bitterly opposed alliances and a splinter group rapidly gaining in popular support."
("Time Shall Not Mend", AJ Hall)

Ben

6:47 AM

Just... well… ^ that.

MikeQ

So the ideal is between 1 and 2 wizards, or a wizard + a familiar

kviiri

Why are they called familiars, anyway?

Ben

It's why Gandalf is so fond of Hobbits

MikeQ

@kviiri Familiars are another spiritual thing that got repackaged for generic modern fantasy

BESW

"Familiar" in the sense of sympatico, co-resonant, similar.

Ben

6:49 AM

> The noun meaning "demon, evil spirit that answers one's call" is from 1580s (familiar spirit is attested from 1560s); earlier as a noun it meant "a familiar friend" (late 14c.). The Latin plural, used as a noun, meant "the slaves," also "a friend, intimate acquaintance, companion."

BESW

"A familiar spirit [...] is the double, the alter-ego, of an individual. It does not look like the individual concerned. Even though it may have an independent life of its own, it remains closely linked to the individual."
(Pierre A. Riffard, Dictionnaire de l’ésotérisme)

kviiri

I was a bit confused when encountering the term for the first time, because my language lacks a single word for "animal-ish thingy that accompanies and assists a wizard or a witch". The concept was familiar (the other kind) to me through pop-culture, but I never figured it was a concept that ought to have a name until I learned that it has one

Ben

@kviiri Technically a pet is a "familiar", by the same definition

BESW

The -ish part is important.

Historically the concept of a familiar is as an unnatural helper, evidence the suspected witch has been consorting with deviant powers.

kviiri

Yeah, exactly

Ben

6:52 AM

This guy is my familiar

BESW

It was often seen as either a perverion of the user's own soul, or an actual independent spirit bound to the user's will.

kviiri

Incidentally, I have a little writing project going on for practice, that goes fairly close to the more traditional sense of familiar. Or spirit guardians, or guardian angels, what have you. A more equal relationship than in DnD and the likes.

@BESW Like the Ugly Bird, right?

BESW

@kviiri Exactly.

Ben

And I would argue that the relation to abnormal or otherworldly power is also applicable. This guy is a right miscreant

BESW

As such I find its casual use a little... weird? disrespectful? not to the degree of, for example, using "spirit animal" because that's a very specific sacred thing for a specific people. But "familiar" has a history of being used as a pretext for violence.

kviiri

6:55 AM

@BESW Yep

MikeQ

I thought the violence association was due to fear of witchcraft, is that incorrect?

BESW

@MikeQ Yes, exactly.

That's where it comes from: it was invented by witch-hunters as a way to "prove" they had successfully identified a witch, because she had a cat or whatever.

MikeQ

Prior to that, AFAIK, the concept of a familiar is akin to a friendly animal spirit

BESW

To the best of my knowledge it has no roots in actual ritual practices, only in fear and violence.

V2Blast

7:10 AM

makes sense

Ben

That's what everyone else said when a witch Hunter explained how to use familiars to identify witches

BESW

(And if anyone mentions Margaret Murray or Gerald Gardner, every Wiccan I know will line up to beat you with the collected works of Keith Thomas and Norman Cohn.)

(For those who are not in the know, the Wiccan traditions originated in the 1920s with wildly unsupported theories that witch hunts were not targeting either Satan-worshippers OR innocent folx, but rather were an attempt to wipe out a pre-Christian religion of Europe. This resulted in people trying to re-create this supposed religion, and it eventually became Wicca.
Every Wiccan I know is fully aware that their religion do not have direct ties to ancient faiths but is cool with their practice anyway and gets annoyed with people who perpetuate that revisionist drivel.)

kviiri

7:31 AM

There's a lot of interesting religious traditions that actually did suffer that fate, although many of them were offshoots of organized Abrahamic religions or their developments, and were quickly labeled heresies.

BESW

Yup, I live in a culture that's had almost all its original rituals and traditions violently and deliberately erased. That they retained many of the values and principles underlying those traditions is a testament to their strength.

But Wicca is not one of those things.

vicky_molokh

7:50 AM

Huh, 90s theme correctly displays 'Mołot'. How unauthentic.

Derpy

8:05 AM

Why why why this has to be just an April Fool item... I wanted it for real!

BESW

"G+ Archives: 7 Dec 2012 - 31 March 2019," searchable archives of G+ activity on the Blades in the Dark, Evil Hat, Dungeon World, PbtA, and The Gauntlet communities.

vicky_molokh

@BESW Is the Evil Hat archive meant to be separate from BitD?

Because I seem to be only getting four sub-archive icons, without the Evil Hat one.

BESW

Ahah, you're right.

I misread the publicity material.

"G+ Archives: 7 Dec 2012 - 31 March 2019," searchable archives of G+ activity on the Blades in the Dark, Dungeon World, PbtA, and The Gauntlet communities.

3

"Lake Washington Girls Middle School Has Been Invaded by Pirates, Warlocks, and Elves: Dungeons & Dragons has a new class of converts," by Matt Baume for The Stranger.

Derpy

9:26 AM

@BESW I kinda wish they also tried Tails of Equestria or something Fate-based

BESW

Hopefully the players branch out even if the program doesn't.

But yeah, I'm sure a company like Evil Hat would like to do some sponsorship or something.

kviiri

9:45 AM

There's this little island near where I live. We went there on a class trip when I was a kid. It's an old coastal watch station but it hasn't been in that use for decades anymore. I recall it's a sort of artist haven and a nature site, perfect for sea birds to relax.

I remembered a few things from my class trip there --- it was a beautiful little island, there were some old buildings repurposed for artists... but one thing I didn't remember is that there's a H.R. Giger sculpture there.

trogdor

oh wow

is it really weird?

kviiri

Nah, by Giger standards it's actually quite serene.

trogdor

ah

V2Blast

@BESW I recall linking that article here back when it was first published :)

trogdor

go figure I guess

kviiri