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12:50 AM
On a side note, Paulo is not used to refer to himself in the third person. It's very confusing to me, I mean, to him. :)
1:02 AM
@PauloCereda I refer to myself in the third person when I talk about things that make me feel shy. :-)
@JasperLoy :P
6 hours later…
7:17 AM
@GonzaloMedina Good idea. Maybe I'll get a Raspberry Pi (is that the right name?) and call it that - seems a bit more suitable to the name "box".
@TorbjørnT Thanks! I'd found the keyboard but hadn't thought of pressing all the modifier keys to see what came up.
@PauloCereda Since we're in daylight saving time now, 8pm my time is 6pm UTC. Is that too early? timeanddate.com/worldclock/…
(Not that "daylight saving" makes a lot of sense right now. We're in that period where I reckon life would be very confusing for shepherds: "Red sky at ... wait, is it night or morning?")
@TorbjørnT Og det var på norsk!
7:42 AM
@AndrewStacey We may have a Raspberry Pi TeX demo at the UK-TUG meeting in Oxford: perhaps we can get a Pi group together :-)
Any volunteers to edit tex.stackexchange.com/questions/59091/… down a bit?
@PeterGrill In the next days I can't work on it. At the weekend I will provide an alternative approach too.
8:36 AM
@JosephWright Look forward to that!
@AndrewStacey Are you going to come?
@PauloCereda I've CW'd your question, and added the event to the Community Board: should appear later on today
8:51 AM
Q: Abandon LaTeX2e for LaTeX3 or LuaTeX

Daniel E. ShubI think my question is: Should I abandon pdflatex, possibly for xetex or contex, and a TeX/LaTeX based macro writing approach, possibly for a LuaTeX or LaTeX3 based approach? Possibly relevant to the answer is that I am an academic who exclusively uses the English language and a lot of math. I h...

We've had at least one similar question before: anyone remember which one?
@JosephWright Did you notice my comment to Paulo about time zones?
@AndrewStacey Ah, no: what time should I put down as the start?
@JosephWright I'd like to check with Paulo what suits. My boundary points for that evening are a little ... imprecise: it needs to be after the kids go to bed (around 7pm my time) and before my wife gets back from her evening event (starts at 7pm so I figured earliest is 9pm and most likely is 10pm). So I figured that 8pm my time gives us a safe hour, with the possibility of going on a bit longer if there's enough interest.
@AndrewStacey OK, I've altered to 1800 UTC as the start time
9:20 AM
@doncherry: Re your edit on tex.stackexchange.com/a/658/86 Of course, that was a deliberate mistake just to see if anyone ever actually read that answer (this is a common strategy of mine: leave deliberate mistakes all over the place to see if anyone's actually reading all this stuff).
10:07 AM
Should I set up an 'event' in the interview room for next week?
10:26 AM
@JosephWright Is it correct to do \peek_catcode_ignore_spaces:NF \c_space_token { \my_function: } as an emulation of the space eating \@ifnextchar? Here \my_function: tests \l_peek_token to see if it appears in a predefined list of tokens.
@egreg What's wrong with \peek_meaning_ignore_spaces:NTF <token>?
@JosephWright That I don't have a single <token> to test: what I want is to see whether \l_peek_token belongs to a fixed set.
@egreg We have discussed on the team list the question of 'peeking for several tokens': nothing really came of it. Perhaps suggest an interface :-)
@JosephWright That method seems to work. :) I'll try extracting an interface.
@AndrewStacey Oops my bad. :) 6PM UTC is fine. I always get confused with timezones. :)
@JosephWright Thanks Joseph. :)
Friends, I posted the interview "question" in meta in an attempt to make our interviews more "community-aware". :) It would be great to see more members involved. :)
11:03 AM
I'm not sure if I want a Wii U. :P Nintendo seems to be running short on names.
@AndrewStacey As long as you limit the mistakes to spelling ;)
@GonzaloMedina: Congrats, now you are an official "fanatic"! :)
@PauloCereda Did you ever work with Arduino related stuff by any chance?
Or anybody else for that matter....
@percusse Not yet, but I'm really eager to try. :) It seems now Arduino is more accessible in Brazil, there are actually people selling it. I was thinking of buying one just for the fun. :)
It's quite expensive, though. :(
@PauloCereda Yep same here. :) I had enough of this academic attitude, I want my screwdriver back !
Well it pays off. Maybe it can heal my TikZ addiction :P
11:17 AM
@percusse LOL
Any ideas for a project?
@PauloCereda Actually, I was a working automation engineer for 4 years before I decided to screw my life with a PhD so I'm sure I'll remember once I get the encoders and servos running :)
@percusse LOL don't worry, once an engineer, always an engineer. :)
In one of the episodes of Dilbert:
Dilbert's mom: - but doctor, can he still live a normal life?
Doctor: - No, he'll be an engineer. :P
@PauloCereda Not to sound too depressed, but I think I'm handling my hunger for the stuff that runs, with LaTeX since my own work hardly ever makes sense in reality. I just realized that a few weeks ago :)
@PauloCereda Oh how I wish to become one again...
@percusse There's a hunger still unsatisfied. - PF.
D'oh, computer science first world problems: I can't even abbreviate Pink Floyd! I tend do use PK, "primary key"!
@JosephWright: saw this photo on 9gag: :)
@PauloCereda Eheh, I want to be comfortably numb again
11:28 AM
@percusse :)
Sir yes sir!
@percusse Hi!
@N3buchadnezzar Hi Sir!
@percusse You cant have any pudding if you dont eat your meat!
11:34 AM
@N3buchadnezzar Sir I can't eat while talking, sir!
Haha ^^
Btw, have you worked any with matrices and determinants?
@N3buchadnezzar Unfortunately yes. But I won't use working in front of all these math professors :)
so you know how to calculate the crossproduct of two vectors in R3
Eh, my point is that I wan to illustrate this process using tikz ^^
@N3buchadnezzar OK, do you have an idea?
I saw this, but it is not quite it. THE WALL
I can throw up a quick image
11:40 AM
I always liked the Altermundus' matrix multiplication texample.net/tikz/examples/matrix-multiplication
you can maybe turn it around?
Altermondus is a god. I was actually thinking about that particular example. It looks good, and the answer is almost what I am looking for.
I guess color coded boxes would look better than arrows.
@N3buchadnezzar Indeed, that might work nicely.
Seems like the answer to Altermundus, actually does what I am looking for.
@N3buchadnezzar Another happy customer :P
Now, can I rotate an image without rotating text within ?
@percusse Thanks for your help :p
Hmm, that code was tough to change
11:57 AM
@N3buchadnezzar Ow sorry, I missed your replies. I think you shouldn't mess with it to rotate. It would be the best write up the matrix from scratch. Since this is going to break down visually if you try to adapt it to something else. There is not much complexity involved so it would be a nice exercise too.
@percusse What do you mean to write from scratch? I am still trying to figure out how he did the nodes.
Seems like he defined some strange matrix nodes.
The nodes are defined automatically when you write the [matrix of math nodes] option in the matrix.
Also you can send your own node options to the matrix via [matrix of math nodes, nodes={node options like draw,inner sep=2pt etc}]
Yeah, I figured that. But it does not work when you want custom labels
You mean to change a_ij s?
12:01 PM
It's just after the les matrices
I know how to change them, but later they are reffered to as(A-2-1.north west), then if I change a_{11} to j, the nodes later stop working.
Even when I change these to the correct, eg j.
@N3buchadnezzar Changing the node label should not interfere with the code. Are you sure you don't modify anything else? Maybe node shapes are changing. What exactly is the problem?
@JosephWright This is surely wrong, but it seems to work:
\cs_new_protected:Npn \peek_tl_charcode_ignore_spaces:NTF #1 #2 #3
  \peek_catcode_ignore_spaces:NF \c_space_token
   { \peek_tl_charcode_ignore_spaces_aux:Nnn #1 {#2}{#3} }
\cs_new_protected:Npn \peek_tl_charcode_ignore_spaces_aux:Nnn #1 #2 #3
  \tl_map_inline:Nn #1
    \bool_set_false:N \l_tl_charcode_bool
    \token_if_eq_charcode:NNT ##1 \l_peek_token
      { \bool_set_true:N \l_tl_charcode_bool \prg_map_break: }
  \bool_if:NTF \l_tl_charcode_bool { #2 } { #3 }
\bool_new:N \l_tl_charcode_bool
@percusse =)
@N3buchadnezzar Instead of i.north west you need to address the node itself i is the label. The node name is A-1-1 so it should read as (A-1-1.north west)
12:09 PM
@percusse Gotcha, thanks!
It might seem like I am asking for every single thin I am trying to do, but more and more of my own attempts are sucessful! Slowly, I am learning =)
Also now you don't have 4 rows so A-4-3 would generate errors. It's very similar to matrix A_{ij} syntax you just write A-i-j to access that node.
@N3buchadnezzar No problem, the manual is really really good to follow the examples for that matter. I also learned as you did. :)
@percusse Take 1 !
@N3buchadnezzar Yep you have to change the line coordinates. The question is from which matrix element A-i-j to which matrix element A-k-l you want to draw from.
@egreg It's the interface that bothers me: as I said, we failed to come up with a good one before and I'm still not sure about this. What is your application?
@JosephWright It's the \xthinspace question
Q: Defining \xthinspace: Thin space only if not followed by certain characters

J. C. SalomonFollowing this 2005 thread from the XeTeX list, I’ve defined a \spaceddash command and assigned it to the Unicode em-dash character U+2014 “—”: \documentclass{minimal} \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} \DeclareRobustCommand{\spaceddash}% {\unskip\nobreak\thinspace\textemdash\thinspace\ignorespaces...

One might do a branch and repeat the recursion if the following token is a space.
But I feel that such a test can be useful also when spaces are not to be ignored.
12:23 PM
@N3buchadnezzar sweet!
maybe a little bit smaller circles?
Indeed, and some more trancparent
@percusse Or cowbells. :)
@PauloCereda Haha, did I recommend you Horacio "El Negro" Hernandez? The craziest cowbell integration to the drumset. Search for Calle 54 for awesomeness explosion on youtube :)
@percusse Could you help me iron out the last few twinks?
12:32 PM
@N3buchadnezzar After I finish the dishes.... :P I have a student coming up for a meeting then I can
I might as well post it on the site, I guess that is what is for :p
@percusse Wow! Awesome! :D
@N3buchadnezzar Aye, then you summon the TikZ gods onto you which might be better. :)
@PauloCereda Octopus-like playing :)
@percusse Indeed. :)
Octopus dad
One of the hardest games in history to controll
12:44 PM
later guys!
@percusse See ya! :)
@percusse Bai!
1:13 PM
@N3buchadnezzar I've seen students trying the Sarrus' rule on 4x4 matrices. Of course I didn't teach it to them, so I'm not at fault.
@egreg Actually more or less 80% of all matrices I have ran into, regarding simple systems, and teaching have been 2x2 or 3x3 matrices. The rest have been much, much bigger than 4x4 ;)
At the same time in norway, students are introduced to crossProduct, and dotproducts much earlier than matrices and linear algebra :/
@N3buchadnezzar Whereupon we have to unlearn them of all those bad habits later.
Indeed, it is a strange system.
@AndrewStacey What are you doing to the fall then ?
1:29 PM
@N3buchadnezzar Sitting by the Thames with a large pile of (virtual) blank paper with the intention of writing lots of Significant Mathematical Articles.
@AndrewStacey So fun!
1:42 PM
@N3buchadnezzar And I assume that they solve linear systems with Cramer's rule.
@egreg Nope, insertion method. Even for systems with 4 and 5 equations.
Remember they do not know what a matrix is!
@N3buchadnezzar You mean "solving by substitution"? Find x from the first equation, substitute throughout, find y from the second equation, substitute throughout, ...? The same here, unfortunately. Gauss' elimination is much more efficient! And not so difficult to grasp.
Gauss elimination is great!
A sneaky way to introduce RREF is to say that because I am so lazy, I will not even write up all the coefficients. And then start manipulating the equations.
2:00 PM
@N3buchadnezzar Cross products can be computed just with algebra: i x i = 0, i x j = k, and so on. The "mechanical" rule can be practical, but one should always think to possible future problems.
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
@PauloCereda Nice user picture
@egreg Thankfully I don't have an octocat. :P Mines are already prankish with only four paws. :P
BTW, GitHub's logo is an octocat. :)
@PauloCereda I see only four paws!
@N3buchadnezzar perhaps you should wait a little longer before accepting my answer; someone else could provide a better approach.
@egreg Where's the catch? :)
@PauloCereda No catch: how can it be an octocat if it has only four legs?
3:15 PM
@egreg Oh! :D Induction powers.
@PauloCereda Well, they say it's an octocat. So be it. :)
@egreg :)
3:54 PM
@GonzaloMedina I was thinking about it, if you say so I will. Usually when I start using an answer I accept that one.
One more vote needed to close
Q: Having the chapter page show the names of the section names

Søren EngelI've recently come across a problem in LaTeX that involves styling a page in a particular fashion. Basically, what I have is a sample document which contains a chapter and two sections. What I want to achieve is having the chapter page as a single page with the names of the sections in the chapt...

4:06 PM
And another "one more vote needed":
Q: How to cross-reference a footnote

JaneIn my work I use a footnote and I would like to refer to the footnote later in text. Something like..as was already described in footnote (number) on page (number). How can I do this? Label does not work in footnote environment.

4:31 PM
@N3buchadnezzar Will you be using this array always for cross-products? I mean, will there always be only six variable entries?
4:48 PM
Never mind; I updated my answer.
5:04 PM
@GonzaloMedina Hi! Yes! and Yes!
@GonzaloMedina Hugs
5:50 PM
Friends, how about this installation scheme?
- Windows: C:\Users\Paulo\arara
- Linux: /home/paulo/.arara
- Mac: /Users/paulo/.arara

On Windows: use exe wrapper, add folder to path, remove folder from path on uninstall
On Linux and Mac: try to create a symbolic link to arara in the /usr/bin folder, remove link on uninstall
@PeterGrill What do you think of this?


    \tan^2 \theta + \sin^2 \theta + \cos^2 \theta &= 1 + \tan^2 \theta\\
    \implies \cos^2 \theta &= 1 - \sin^2 \theta
The line \newdimen\@keepcolumn is a leftover.
@egreg Wow!! Please post that as an answer as it works great. I am going to start using this from now on...
A: TeXtalk interviews

Paulo CeredaOur next interviewee: Andrew Stacey Interview scheduled to Tuesday, June 19th, around 6:00PM UTC. Everybody is invited! Lost with the UTC time? Click here to see the event time in your local timezone. :)

Now our interviews have also a local timezone info. :)
@PeterGrill Of course it works only if the larger align comes first.
@egreg Ahhhh, didn't think of that. Perhaps a two pass approach which names the alignment points and keeps the longest of the same name.
6:04 PM
@PeterGrill That can be an idea.
Hey guys, if you are interested in reading the source code for METAPOST check out my recent blog post "METAPOST: The Program": blog.codeslower.com/2012/6/METAPOST-The-Program.
It just describes how to to get the source for METAPOST and then how to run 'cweave
on it to get a nice TeX document :)
@JustinBailey The same works for tex.web; the commented source code is however already available in TeX Live (texdoc tex). :) Nice job
Yeh, I have been reading a lot about METAFONT lately (including METAFONT: The Program) and I decided to see if METAPOST was also written as a literate program. No surprise, it was! I haven't looked through the source much though - its 800 pages long!
6:22 PM
@JosephWright: I need your advice. I'd like to call the attention of the Powers That Be to our blog, regarding some logo and css issues. I also would like to suggest some Markdown editing support, and code syntax highlighting (probably with Google Prettify). Our meta questions here seem not to call their attention. Is there any way in which I could talk to someone? I'm also eager to offer myself as an holocaust and post a question in the main meta.SO, if needed.
7:00 PM
@PauloCereda do you have to assume a location for the home directory, rather than picking up $HOME or equivalent? (%USERPROFILE% on windows)
@DavidCarlisle The plan is to rely on Java's "user.dir" profile. :)
@PauloCereda doesn't that come to the same thing on the end? (my java's a bit rusty:-)
@DavidCarlisle Actually it does. :) The good thing is that I can write a "universal" installer. :)
@PauloCereda OK I was just commenting on your qn about installation directories. I thought you were assuming /home/name etc but if you are just picking up java's notion of home directory then fine.
@DavidCarlisle At first I was thinking of /opt or Program Files, but I better play safe and use the user dir. :)
7:30 PM
@PauloCereda I'll see what I can do
@JosephWright Thanks. :) I really don't want to bother, but I'd like to hear from someone. :)
@PauloCereda If the executable program is in a user's home, I wouldn't make a link to /usr/bin. I believe that things in /usr/bin should have no other owner than root.wheel. What if there are two users?
@egreg Good point. Any idea where to deploy it?
@PauloCereda I believe there is some Markdown support: perhaps @AndrewStacey knows bit more about this?
@PauloCereda BTW, which meta post is it?
The default PATH should be /usr/bin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/X11/bin. Installing in /usr/local/bin and /usr/local/lib/arara should be the way. That is, if arara is able to look there. A user based .arara can exist too, for personal files.
7:45 PM
@JosephWright This one and this one, I guess. :)
@egreg My idea is to leave everything in ~/.arara and only create a symbolic link to ~/.arara/arara.sh. /usr/local/bin is fine with me. :)
@JosephWright I didn't post anything about highlighting and Markdown support, yet. :)
@PauloCereda OK
@PauloCereda What's the problem with the Markdown support?
@AndrewStacey I would like to have Markdown support for blog posts. :)
Unless I missed something important. :)
8:03 PM
@PauloCereda This is wrong. What if two users install arara? Only one would be able to use the program (whoever installed last).
@PauloCereda Do you mean "I would like to write my posts in Markdown"? If so, that's already supported. You have to select the right "view" when writing a post.
Q: Bug with texdef (currfile) in frozen TexLive 2011

sdaauTo keep in line with the Q&A format: I am on Ubuntu Lucid, with the frozen TexLive 2011, from where I installed texdef. Unfortunately, when I ran one of the examples from the help (and I installed xspace) specifically for this, I got: $ texdef -t latex -l -p xspace : Compile error: Undefi...

I think we need a Meta post which explains that bug reports are not on-topic.
@AndrewStacey Wow! Really?!
Let me check that. :)
@MartinScharrer Wasn't it a bit more nuanced than that: questions for working around longstanding bugs is one thing, reporting a transient bug is another
@PauloCereda Botheration, I don't have my WP password in FF on this machine so I can't do an easy check. There should be two options for "View" hovering above the top-right corner of the edit box. One is "visual" one is something like "HTML". Confusingly, the HTML one actually takes Markdown.
8:05 PM
@JosephWright Well the hint on frozen TeX Live 2011 is a plus, but the bug is fixed for a few weeks already.
@MartinScharrer Yes, of course. A meta question would be good, I just meant that the answer has to be a bit more than 'no bug reports' :-)
Also, posting a bug report on a forum, news group or Q&A site, but not writing the author an email is not the right thing.
@AndrewStacey A quick test says this is right :-)
I actually overlooked the question on the day it got posted and just got a google notification about it because I watching my packages.
@AndrewStacey Thanks! It really works! I was unaware of that! :)
8:08 PM
@JosephWright Good point.
@MartinScharrer Well, that's also true to some extent. I always say 'post in public by all means, but also CC me (or equivalent)
@PauloCereda Two meta posts reported to Powers That Be: @GraceNote is going to look at it, I am told
@JosephWright Thank you, thank you very much! Sorry for the trouble.
@MartinScharrer Will you write a meta question and then answer it?
@PauloCereda Hmm, change of plan: @shog is now taking the issue :-)
@JosephWright Thanks again! :)
@JosephWright I can do that, but not immediately. I'm a little busy at the moment.
8:13 PM
@egreg I see. :) To be honest, I'm not inclined to deploy arara outside the home directory. /opt is also an alternative, but the symbolic link would still be available to every user. Maybe deploying to ~/.arara and writing an entry in the user profile?
@MartinScharrer OK
@JosephWright: Should the above question be closed as too-localized (in time)?
@egreg: I could also try to add an install option of creating the symbolic link. :)
@MartinScharrer I guess so
@JosephWright Could you do that. I'm officially biased ;-)
77,776 rep! Dawn! One down-vote to much! ;-)
Puh, one guy improved his answer in the mean time: 77777 rep
8:24 PM
@MartinScharrer nice!!!
@PauloCereda I think you either should just install for one user under ~ or install for all users under /usr/local or /opt or some such you shouldn't install under one user and then have symbolic links into shared directories that are in everyone's path.
@DavidCarlisle I like the home approach better. :) Should I write something to bashrc too?
I need 2 rep more too!
@N3buchadnezzar for leet speek :)
@PauloCereda well of course I've been attracted to the dark side so you might have trouble guessing where my .bashrc is (in my cygwin home directory which isn't my windows one:-) Can't say I was ever very fond of programs messing with my startup files when I was regularly in on unix. Won't all the csh users hate you if you favour bash?
8:30 PM
@PatrickGundlach All of that rep comes from questions.
@N3buchadnezzar perhaps you are @egreg's long lost twin
@DavidCarlisle Are csh'ers still around? :P
@PauloCereda I know some ... :(
@PatrickGundlach <3
@PauloCereda yes, but they use vim though so I don't speak to them
8:38 PM
@PauloCereda What's wrong with tcsh? :P
@DavidCarlisle You use vi then?
@DavidCarlisle I don't use vim.
@egreg Just teasing. :)
@PatrickGundlach David probably uses ed. :)
@PauloCereda No: cat for typing and sed for editing.
@egreg Wow! Best workflow ever. :)
^Z ended the typing I guess.
8:48 PM
@PauloCereda Here's a typical session for David
> cat <<EOF | tex
> \relax Hello world\bye
This is TeX, Version 3.1415926 (TeX Live 2011)
Output written on texput.dvi (1 page, 224 bytes).
Transcript written on texput.log.
@egreg Awesome! :)
@PauloCereda If you try in tcsh, the continuation prompt is better
% cat << EOF | tex
 -> \relax Hello world\bye
 -> EOF
This is TeX, Version 3.1415926 (TeX Live 2011)
Output written on texput.dvi (1 page, 224 bytes).
Transcript written on texput.log.
@egreg Cool! It's been some time, I should revisit it. :)
@egreg: How does this idea sound: install arara on home dir and export the command in .profile? :)
Hm on a second thought, not a good idea.
9:03 PM
Hi there, can I draw your attention to the following for a possible TL closing?
Q: Make the boundary of markers more apparent in pgfplots?

demon386I use pgfplots to draw a black-white array resembling imshow() in MATLAB. I use the following code (from Plot a matrix of real values with TikZ/PGF like imshow in matlab ) to do it \begin{tikzpicture}[scale=0.3] \begin{axis}[x=4mm,y=4mm,xtick=\empty,ytick=\empty,colormap={bw}{gray(0cm)=(0);...

@percusse Apparently, @Joseph has some sort of Thor's hammer to close questions. :)
@PauloCereda He just shows a thumb down and the question close on itself.
@percusse More or less - that's how it works for mods (so we can't vote 'normally')
@percusse :)
@percusse And apologizes for having been open. :)
9:29 PM
@egreg using cat is far too verbose:-) (and of course bash can use that prompt too)
$ PS2=" -> "
$ tex<<EOF
-> \relax Hello World\bye
-> EOF
This is TeX, Version 3.1415926 (TeX Live 2011/Cygwin)
Output written on texput.dvi (1 page, 224 bytes).
Transcript written on texput.log.
@DavidCarlisle I should've known. ;-)
@egreg: I came up with another idea: let the user installs arara wherever he plans, with an optional postinstall step of adding a symbolic link arara to some path.
Now to implement this: another story. :P
2 hours later…
11:21 PM
I assume [...,overlay] does do what I guessed it does and makes the tikz picture zero sized? (hope so as that's what I just said in an answer:-)

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