TRPG General Chat

Ben

12:44 AM

I am yet to figure that out. Lol. It's been back and forth a lot already, and it's ok 11am

V2Blast

12:56 AM

not looking forward to shoveling snow tomorrow morning

nitsua60

If you lived where I do you could start now =\

(I'm going to hit it once before going to bed.)

Ben

1:15 AM

Going for my driving test today too. (Been a long time coming). Are road rules for you guys as confusing for learners as they are here? Like, there are a lot of rules that need to be followed by learners that no one else uses.

Also, I can up with a back story for my Dragonborn monk - he was raised and trained by a monk that defected from their Order, because they felt their powers were wasted in the monastery. The power went to their head, and they were driven into exile. They later found an apprentice (my dragonborn), and trained them.

nitsua60

@Ben Yup. They tend to test you on nitpicky little details in the regs. (Do they say you need 40 or 60 feet ahead of a car in order to satisfy a "yield" condition?)

OTOH, I suppose it could be a brown M&M thing.

Ben

So, green Dragonborn, Monk, trained by an "evil" teacher, C/N, has a dagger that can transform into a sickle (cleared by the DM - no extra bonuses), fluent with panpipes/flute, and speaks Primordial :D

@nitsua60 The main one is that you need to indicate off a roundabout.

Geoffrey Lim

@Ben

EVIL MONK

Let me begin my rant on Demonic Cultivators

:P

Ben

They are nit-picky about things... where your hands are, how much you're riding the brake/clutch... speed in a school zone, etc.

nitsua60

@Ben Here: not turning off your indicator for a lane-change until you're driving straight in the new lane. Something they ding you on for the test and I've rarely seen someone do "correctly" in practice.

Ben

1:24 AM

@GeoffreyLim I decided to go with C/N, cos "evil" can be a hindrance... depending on the intent

Geoffrey Lim

No I meant how Wuxia/Kung Fu fiction represents eil

evil

Ben

@nitsua60 That's true.

nitsua60

@Ben I'm nitpicky about people riding the clutch--I'm the one who has to pay for the replacement!

Geoffrey Lim

well disharmonious monk

Ben

@nitsua60 Haha very true :P

@GeoffreyLim Also Tommy Oliver wasn't evil… he was just misguided.

Geoffrey Lim

1:25 AM

So! Wuxia fiction, first key idea

for dishonouring them

even the protaganists

Ben

@GeoffreyLim no potty mouths, please

Geoffrey Lim

yeah sure but a central idea is things are dealt with through kung fu violence

so everyone leans much closer to evil/murderhobos

even the good guys

So how do you make designated villians in your pulp novel that's going to be silly long because you're paid by the word?

Disharmonious Kung Fu obviously, best indicator that they're a villian is that they're using a technique that alters their body

well not alters

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 the Clutch-a-Month club is not something you want to be in!

Geoffrey Lim

but requires the use of altering their bodies to even use

or to use to their full extent

best known example is Dong Bufang's Butterfly Manual and 1950's transphobia.

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Oh, yeah.

Shalvenay

1:32 AM

:P

@GeoffreyLim I've been in circles where a Druid/Monk MC was viable for shapeshifting-focused Druid builds....

Geoffrey Lim

Shapeshifting is fine

it's a classic taoist technique

but only if you learn it and use the correct version

:P

Welcome to pulp fiction, where the mythology is all mixed up for long long stories

Taoist shapeshifting magic is a representation of the beliefs of taoism

I am one with the world and the world is one with me

so changing forms is nothing and all that

for we are all the same thing

nitsua60

@BESW at some point can you remind me of your general take on DFRPG? I remember your growing discontent with the series (which I've just started last week) but I can't remember whether the RPG earned your thumbs-up or -down, generally.

(cc: anyone else who's played it)

BESW

DFRPG or DFAE, or both?

nitsua60

I don't know the difference =\

(Didn't recall there were two.)

BESW

The Dresden Files Roleplaying Game was released in 2010. It pre-dates Fate Core by 3 years and is possibly one of the more complex, fiddly versions of Fate around. It's got some good concepts but its clarity suffers because it's really dedicated to being written as an in-universe text and the style gets in the way.

The fiddliness of the spellcasting, in particular, gets in the way of the "spontaneity" feel of Dresden-style magic.

nitsua60

1:42 AM

Interesting. (That magic feel is one thing I'd hope an DF rpg would capture.)

BESW

It conflates free will with access to fate points, which is interesting but hints at a major problem: as you'll learn around book five or so, there's things about the Dresden setting which make Fate a very bad system choice for stories that go beyond street-level implications.

@nitsua60 The system allows for narratively spontaneous magic, very much so. But it takes so long to wade through the system to do it that all the table-level spontaneity is sucked out of the experience.

nitsua60

(There's an old FUDGE spellcasting supplement that I feel like would work well--it very loosely "costs out" spells based on duration, size of effect, range, environmental factors, and how closely related components are to target. I.e. a picture of you used for a divination spell costs more than if I had a drop of your blood or, better yet, your spectacles.)

@BESW So the implementation is too clunky? Or, "fiddly," as you already put it, I suppose =)

BESW

Yes.

Dresden Files Accelerated was published in 2017. It's an aggressive hack of the Fate Accelerated version of Fate Core, and is generally better suited to Dresden-like play than DFRPG was, with all the streamlining of Core/Accelerated but with added fiddly bits for Dresden-y-ness.

nitsua60

So of the two definitely look at DFAE over DFRPG?

BESW

Yes. But.... Fate is still not a good match for the Dresden setting if you're going to run stories with implications beyond street-level change.

And that's the thing about Fate: Fate PCs are proactive and dramatic and competent, they change the world they're running through.

nitsua60

1:46 AM

Okay. So a short adventure or two-shot, but not so much a larger project?

BESW

And the Dresden world is set up on a knife-edge, where one wrong move can cascade through delicate power structures to create at least two different possible Armageddons.

@nitsua60 Yeah. When I ran a DFAE playtest, I put it on a remote Hawaiian island where the PCs were hiding from the Wizard Council's hitman.

And avoid the higher-powered character options because the power you get, the more your actions are tied to the balance of the world.

Or just ignore the setting details entirely and use the mechanics to tell your own stories about an urban fantasy world where the world isn't poised between madness and eternal winter.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast [wave]

KorvinStarmast

Hi @Ben

BESW

@nitsua60 There's a few pretty good free pre-made adventures for DFRPG that can be modified for another system fairly easily.

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Your presence is a good reminder for me. Every time I see you I'm reminded that I need to continue working on my Diablo campaign

BESW

1:55 AM

I used Night Fears to good effect when we were first testing DFRPG.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben I am encouraging your efforts in that direction. Please do. ;)

nitsua60

@BESW That sounds like a decent "hack."

Ben

At this point, all I need to do is put it all together in a coherent storyline, as well as give the NPCs a bit more involvement in the actual storyline - interacting with the PCs more actively than they do in the original game. otherwise it's just the matter of typing it all out. Haha.

KorvinStarmast

@Ben I sense a soul in search of answers

BESW

@nitsua60 The independent DFRPG campaign I ran back before Fate Core, ultimately morphed into a powerless YA mystery campaign using Bubblegumshoe.

nitsua60

1:59 AM

Interesting.

Veronica Dresden?

Ben

@KorvinStarmast Stay a while, and listen!

My only qualm is whether or not to put the Skeleton king before the Butcher, for a more coherent "descent into hell", or after, as it is in the original.

BESW

@nitsua60 Sorta? Turned out the magic was the least interesting part of the setting/story I'd developed and kept getting in the way.

MikeQ

@Ben How is that more coherent? And why would it need to be coherent?

Ben

Well the way I am lloking at it is, the entrance to the cathedral is full of zombies - villagers killed by the "night monsters", and resurrected by the evil magics.

Then they enter the cathedral, and they first floor is more zombies, and skeletons of the dead adventurers that came before... then in the catacombs, where the Skeleton King is buried

But as they get deeper... they start to run into more grotesque creatures... creatures of hell... [dun dun duuuunnn]

That's my logic

nitsua60

@BESW Good shift, then.

BESW

2:10 AM

@nitsua60 Although, I never got to unleash a horde of bloodthirsty garden gnomes on the PCs. Shame that.

(Seanan McGuire pointed out that garden gnomes are basically suburban gargoyles.)

Ben

@BESW Stealing that

V2Blast

Keith Baker shares his thoughts on the new UA artificer: keith-baker.com/dm-artificer

MikeQ

@Ben Depends on the story you're trying to tell. If the story is that demons are emerging on the surface, and they need to be dealt with before the PCs begin their descent into hell, then it's plausible for demons like the butcher to be encountered first

Ben

@MikeQ That's fair.

Miniman

2:39 AM

@Ben I mean, that's what they did in D3. Up to you whether that makes it better or worse XD

Ben

@Miniman Additionally the butcher and the skeleton king was generally an either/or situation... you could get both... but I dunno

Miniman

@Ben I would absolutely use both - they're just so iconic.

Ben

Yeah. I had the full intention of doing so :D

BESW

And now I'm thinking about whether I should finish my Hounds of God game, or start it over from scratch.

Ben

@BESW Finish it then review it.

Otherwise you may hit the same boundary as you did before you stopped last time

BESW

2:45 AM

I'm not sure if Fate's the right system for it.

Miniman

@Ben Are you planning on going all the way down to Big D?

Ben

@Miniman I am. Butcher, Skelly King, Lazarus, and the Big D. Potentially one more boss in there, and a potential twist for the final boss fight

Miniman

@Ben PVP, I'm guessing?

Ben

Pretty much haha

Miniman

Or do you not want to spoil it here?

Ben

2:48 AM

It's optional, of course.

PvP is not for everyone

Miniman

If it works the way I assume it does, you might want to power up the (un)lucky player to make it a more satisfying fight for everyone involved.

Ben

@Miniman Yeah. That's the plan.

Miniman

@Ben Nice. I'd be very interested to see what that looks like when you're done.

Ben

I'm enlisting the assistance of my artist friend to help me with the maps, too.

If I spend a few hours on it every night, I can get it done in a few weeks... but realistically it'll be probably double that, at best.

Shalvenay

hey there @Noob, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Noob

2:59 AM

@Shalvenay hi there but iam sorry i do not know for what this chat is supposed to do . I just stumbled across it but thanks for the welcome

Shalvenay

hey there as well @Master_Yogurt, and welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

Master_Yogurt

Thanks @Shelvenay!

I was actually coming here because of the recent controversy on a particular user's question on the main QnA Stack

Noob

@Shalvenay i was just wondering for the answer to one of my mathematics logic question thus came across this never mind.

Master_Yogurt

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate venue for meta discussion but I didn't want to start a formal question on meta.stack

Ben

@Noob This is the chat room for rpg.stackexchange.com. We come here to discuss role playing games, among other things :)

Shalvenay

3:02 AM

@Master_Yogurt if you have a question about a RPG.SE question, shoot! you're in the perfect place to discuss or workshop something

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt Go ahead and ask/talk--if it's not right here, we'll figure out where is better.

Master_Yogurt

Thanks @nitsua60

nitsua60

Aug 7 '18 at 20:02, by doppelgreener

At least for this chat, going by its history, the most off-topic thing anyone's probably asked in here was a tabletop RPG question.

Master_Yogurt

This has to do with the (Dm changing lore)[rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/142320/… question

Now I don't want to get into the detailed debate over subjective questions necessarily

Noob

@Ben that is kinda cool ,honestly like PUbg , fornite , dota , apex legends ? that is great sir , i did not know that . Now i feel fortunate to stumble across it

Shalvenay

3:04 AM

2

Q: A player has asked the DM to ignore the lore to enable his character concept. What are the pros and cons if the DM does so?

Context I'm posting this on behalf of a friend. She wants more than just our group's opinion. I don't know the other guy at all, but I was given screenshots of their conversations in order to get this as factual as possible. I know my friend will take all advice under consideration as she tries...

Ben

@nitsua60 Haha true... but discussions != questions :P

Master_Yogurt

But it seems to me that the way that this question was handled by the community really was not productive. We had a lot of debate over subjectivity

Shalvenay

@Noob oh, :P nope. we're about tabletop RPG games, like Dungeons and Dragons

Master_Yogurt

And the different factions ended up using this user's question like a football, locking and unlocking it

Ben

@Noob Well, not videogame rpgs. this is for games like Dungeons and Dragons and the like

Master_Yogurt

3:04 AM

Like, so much energy was exerted on this meta debate, and none at all was used to actually address or improve the question

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt So much of whose energy? (Honest question--I'm just seeing it for the first time now.)

Master_Yogurt

@nitusua60 There are 20 comments on the first question

@nitsua60 I don't really want to call anyone out specifically, I think everyone was acting in good faith

nitsua60

Okay. Fair enough.

Master_Yogurt

@nitsua60 But it really ended up being stressful for the user asking the question.

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt Yes--I'm reading through them now. 20 is a high number, but it does seem that they're all discussing the question--it's not like they devolved into arguing about whether guns should be in fantasy rpgs.

Eventually when the question's at a steady state we'll probably delete all of them.

Master_Yogurt

3:09 AM

@nitsua60 That makes sense to me. I know questions here have a higher bar than on a forum.

nitsua60

I don't know about higher, but they should be things that voting on answers make sense for.

"What did you do in this situation?" is eminently unsuitable for voting on answers. So that's why in its first incarnation it was closed. It looks like that was edited out and then the question was reopened--do I have that right, broadly?

Master_Yogurt

I'd say higher, in the sense that questions are more demanding of the user than asking in GitP or something. It's not like you'd get 24 hours of debate about how well-formed the question is in a different venue.

nitsua60

Oh, wait--there's another close-reopen cycle, I think.

Master_Yogurt

Yeah there has been, like, 2-3 on that one

I wrote my answer in a window between them

nitsua60

Hrmmm... I may open a meta on this one.

Master_Yogurt

3:13 AM

The question was, after the first hold, something like "Should the DM change the setting based on player request?"

Miniman

@Master_Yogurt More demanding, but I think we'd all like to believe that once you satisfy those demands you get much more useful responses.

nitsua60

Because something like fifteen different users have voted either to (leave/re-)open or close it at this point.

So comments underneath aren't really going to cut it in terms of sorting out what's going on.

Master_Yogurt

@Miniman I agree! Having rules in place is important for encouraging quality responses.

@nitsua60 I don't think I have permissions yet to see that level of detail on a question. Thanks for taking a closer look.

nitsua60

(Just getting to the end of comments--please note that it's not the user who's getting kicked back and forth, it's the post.)

If you go to the post's revision history you can see each of the close/open actions and who voted for it.

Shalvenay

to second @nitsua60's point -- I actually am still working on workshopping an answer on DIY.SE that required at least a 50 comment thread on the question to figure out (large enough that it got kicked out into its own chatroom and continued from there)

Miniman

3:15 AM

@nitsua60 Beat me to it by a nautical mile.

Master_Yogurt

@nitsua60 Thanks, I see that the voting shows up as part of the edit history.

I agree with that point, @nitsua60, but to the user it probably didn't seem like "their question," you know? We have a user in the comments saying "If you're getting frustrated, close the question and have the DM ask herself."

Miniman

I feel a little weird about not having participated in any of those votes.

nitsua60

(there's a little quirk in that you don't see reviewers who voted the opposite direction of the action; like if the first "reopen" had a reviewer who voted "leave closed" only the elected moderators can see that.)

@Miniman Ever since they made it the little red dot instead of the number-on-red-box, I think I've completely forgotten about the review queue.

(There's a couple of badgers I'll never track down, now.)

Ben

@nitsua60 Badger-barian.

No idea where that came from. Just popped into my head lol

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt Sure--to a user it often feels pretty personal. I still remember my hands sweating when my first questions were getting downvotes. I just wish your comment had said something about the post getting kicked around, rather than the user.

@Ben Uhh, because they are? With persistent rage, nonetheless!

@Master_Yogurt I am going to go ahead and move comments to chat, leave my own trying to head off further commentary, and open a meta. Gimme 5....

Ben

3:22 AM

> I'm always angry. As a Badger, you gain the "persistent rage" ability from the Barbarian feature list. You can rage once per day, and your rage only ends if you choose to let it end on your action, if you are incapacitated or killed.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I wasn't thinking about the review queue, though - I've been aware of that question since it was asked and keeping an eye on it reasonably regularly.

The Oracle

0

Q: Is this question too opinion-based?

A player has asked the DM to ignore the lore to enable his character concept. What are the pros and cons if the DM does so? has gone through two close-reopen cycles. The first seems pretty straightforward: originally the post had a strong survey quality to it; it was closed, commented upon, pare...

discussion specific-question closed-questions

nitsua60

Hmm... should I copy the whole chain of comments that are now chatified into that post? I think not--just going to link them.

Master_Yogurt

@nitsua60 Thanks for opening up a meta post on this.

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt Thanks for pursuing it in here!

Ben

3:30 AM

This might be a good question... the rule for persistent rage says : your rage is so fierce that it ends early only if you fall unconscious or if you choose to end it.

nitsua60

(One of my strong mod philosophies is that I need not have the answer to a site problem, but I should strive to ensure you-all find those answers.)

Ben

Does that mean that if you are enchanted, and they tell you to end it - is that by "your" choice?

nitsua60

@Ben The way I read your Oxford-less second sentence is that the badger is only capable of "letting" the rage end if they are either incapacitated or killed. Which, from what I know of badgers, may be exactly correct =)

Master_Yogurt

@ben at the level you get relentless rage, you are already immune to enchantment when raging

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt Badgers are immune to enchantment as a species-feature, I believe =)

Master_Yogurt

3:33 AM

@Ben that Only applies to the Path of the Berserker, which all Badgers certainly follow

Thanks, all. I am gonna log off so I can make my way home for the night. Have a good one!

nitsua60

@Master_Yogurt You too. Safe travels!

Ben

Awesome. So that's perfectly balanced XD

V2Blast

4:04 AM

good night :)

The Oracle

10:13 AM

0

Q: How can i give back to the rpg.stackexchange community besides answering questions?

i am a fledgling game master running a pathfinder group. With only DND4e experience as a player, i sometimes struggle to grasp all the details of Pathfinder rules. RPG.stackexchange was and is tremendous helpful to me. So, i would really like to give back to the community. I find it a bit hard t...

discussion community

KorvinStarmast

1:32 PM

@Master_Yogurt I made that remark, and I was trying to be helpful. This stack works best when you ask for help solving a problem. I had hoped with my first question to understand how transferrable the answer was. Indication was "yes, DM looking for input." That last comment was a direct response to the asker's expressed frustration with the process.

And I think your answer is a good one.

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast It was certainly an odd situation. In principle there's nothing wrong with asking a question "for" someone else. In practice it can go off the rails when there's follow-up needed and the querent can't actually clarify things, because it's not their situation.

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Which point I noted in my first comment, for the reason that you expressed there.

nitsua60

Yup.

KorvinStarmast

I may also be guilty of leaping on a help pile ...

nitsua60

There was a lot of activity there. Part of why when @Master_Yogurt called my attention to it I thought it'd be worth spinning off a meta: so that OP might not feel so "targeted," or like they had to be the one responding to everything. Plus, when I see high-rep users disagreeing with and addressing each other in comments, that's a sign to me that discussion's (a) warranted and (b) growing too large for just comments.

KorvinStarmast

1:38 PM

@nitsua60 Yep, and off to the meta I go to see if I can be of help, or not.

kviiri

2:06 PM

Hello

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Howdy, hope you are well.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Indeed I am :) had a happy experience with flat-hunting and we found ourselves a nice new home once our current landlord kicks us out

How about you?

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Had a surprise visit from our son, this weekend, we had planned golf but weather turned sour. So we played video games together and watched the finale of Westworld Season 2, then went out to dinner when my wife got home. Good times.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast Neat, which games did you play?

I'm currently playing through Chrono Trigger whenever I have the time, and I think I'm slowly nearing the end. I'm also playing through Kaiserreich which is a really cool alt-history mod for Hearts of Iron IV

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri We did League of Legends and Hearthstone. My PS2 skills are about zero.

We also played some board games, Ticket to Ride and Settlers of Catan when Mrs S got home and her sister came over.

kviiri

2:21 PM

Kaiserreich is set in an alternate universe where Germany aborted their unrestricted submarine warfare in WWI, the United States did not join the Entente, and ultimately the Central Powers emerged victorious. By 1936, Germany is the only global colonial empire, Great Britain and France have been overthrown by syndicalist socialists and their former governments are in exile in Canada and Morocco, respectively

@KorvinStarmast Sounds like a good time

Nyakouai

@kviiri Sounds like a good time too

kviiri

@Nyakouai It's a neat experience for sure

I'm currently playing as one of the three major Indian governments. It's pretty much a rule in KR that everything is Balkanized, or at least almost everything.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri Sounds like a neat game.

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast I recommend trying it, if you have Hearts of Iron IV (KR is a mod for it). I think they also maintain a version for The Darkest Hour, a similar wargame.

It combines a semi-railroaded narrative (in the form of Natoinal focus trees and multi-choice events) with a strategic wargame.

KorvinStarmast

2:39 PM

OK, I'll look up Hearts of Iron IV, and discuss with son. Thanks for the tip.

kviiri

No prob. The base game is decent, too, although their naval combat model is (or at least used to be) quite terrible.

I haven't played the newest version yet, where they supposedly, at least, addressed that

The original game is in a weird state between railroaded and not... there's rails, but you can go off them. The game just might stop making any sense when you do.

KR fixes the problem by seriously limiting the amount of things the player can choose outside the NF tree and dynamic events, but to compensate, there's way more branching. I rather like it this way

Rubiksmoose

3:53 PM

@Miniman can you help me try to understand your answer here?

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose I read that interpretation to be: war caster gives you a spell instead of OoA when an opponent provokes using your unarmed reach.

Where the wording of the feature is less strict. If OoA provoked, then character can use spell instead.

Whip wielding wizards ftw

I think bloodcinder has the correct interpretation, and the whip is a peculiar, but fine edge case.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross My issue is that nowhere do they say that in the answer. It seems to be a vital piece of their argument right? Especially since they already said above that wielding a whip does affect your definition of reach.

@ColinGross I don't actually think the whip is an edge case here. It all seems pretty clear from my standing what the rules say.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. That's not in the rules. If OoA, then cast. End of routine.

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross and whips provoke OAs when a creature leaves 10 feet of you.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose Okay... niche case. I don't think warcaster was written with polearms and whips in mind.

@Rubiksmoose But not when they leave 5 feet of you. So carrying a dagger as well means you can't use your component requiring spells without dropping something.

Rubiksmoose

4:10 PM

@ColinGross Sure but they would still provoke an OA from you when they left 5 feet (from the dagger) so the effect is the same.

And yes material components would be an issue and it would be good to see that mentioned in an answer as well

I'm actually wondering if miniman was arguing sequentially. enemy leaves 5 feet, OA provoked from dagger, spell cast using WC, enemy continues leaving reach provokes another OA, cannot cast because reaction already used.

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose That's now how I read his interpretation. I read his answer to be, reach only counts for the whip and not spells. Which I don't think is correct.

If a caster wants to be within 10' of an enemy, I feel like that has it's own consequences. Especially in the level 6 - 13 ranges.

Rubiksmoose

Yeah it is hard to say. I think the quote is intended to be the logical step but it is not clear how it is implemented. I was jst hoping ot get some clarification from them on it.

Colin Gross

If it were sequential, the answer wouldn't say you could make an OoA with the whip because the reaction was already used previously in the sequence.

I got the question last night about if casting lightning bolt on a target counts as an attack. "They're attacking me with a lightning bolt."

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross ah yeah that is true.

Xirema

6:13 PM

Does 5th Edition D&D actually have rules for crafting Mundane (non-magical) items you'd normally buy at a shop, like a longsword or a set of armor? I know there's a lot of common houserules (i.e. if you have proficiency in the necessary tools, you can create an item for half the cost you'd normally purchase it at) but outside of very specific items, I can't find generic rules for this activity.

kviiri

@Xirema The core rules don't, but I think there's something 'bout this in the later additions

Xirema

@kviiri I know there's rules for Magic items, enumerated in the DMG (and then revised/updated in Xanathars) but I haven't been able to find any rules for mundane items.

kviiri

A quick search on Beyond says this is essentially what Forge clerics can do --- but they have to pay the full value of the item in metal.

I doubt there's a general rule that goes beyond what Forge clerics have, because it'd kinda devaluate their ability.

Rubiksmoose

@Xirema oh wow are those rules seriously only for magic items?

CTWind

Xanathar's crafting rules appear to also cover mundane items.

Sdjz

6:16 PM

@Xirema PHB 187

It's a downtime activity

Xirema

@kviiri Well, they also gain the ability to craft said items in only a single hour, 1/2/3 times per short rest. Waaaaaay faster than the other crafting rules.

kviiri

@Xirema Fair nuff

Although DnD as a rule set doesn't really go out of its way to imbue time with any value

GreySage

@kviiri The value of time is always based on context, so it will vary from campaign to campaign.

Sdjz

Also found on D&D Beyond here

kviiri

@GreySage Sadly, by my experience, it's based very much on whether the GM thought of a good time tracking scheme of in advance or not

Xirema

6:19 PM

@Sdjz Okay, yeah, that's what I was looking for.

@kviiri Also, if we use the PHB rules, a 100gp item would normally take 1+1/2 weeks to complete (10 days, 5gp each day, for a total cost of 50gp), whereas a Forge Cleric could do it in an hour. Even with the Xanathar's rules, it still takes a full workweek.

Sir Cinnamon

6:37 PM

for the full cost though right?

Xirema

@SirCinnamon Yes, that is one disadvantage of the Forge Cleric's ability. I guess they sacrifice efficiency for speed.

kviiri

The Forge cleric ability is less about traditional craftsmanship and more about always having the right tools for any job if the cleric has a little extra cash with them.

I'm not very keen on other kinds of crafting systems in DnD, myself, although if there's some limit on how many downtime days the party can spend, I'm cool with the Xanathar crafting system too.

Sir Cinnamon

7:44 PM

I assume i missed it on friday but whats the general feeling about Artificer

CTWind

Mixed. Some people like the flavor, some like that it's not reinventing the wheel and just letting them be spellcasters as opposed to making devices that effectively do spell effects, some people dislike that both current subclasses are pet classes, some dislike the lack of focus (not clear cut on whether they should be attacking or cantripping).

Some people want it to have as much customization as 3.5e, some people like the level it's at now and feel it's more in like with 5e's simplification of things.

Xirema

@SirCinnamon I like it. It's got some interesting features that give it a very distinct identity as a Support class, which is something that even a lot of the supposed "Support Classes" in 5th edition (Cleric, Paladin, Bard, etc.) can't really claim.

Also, the ability to change Cantrips every Short/Long rest is a very curious design space to explore. O_O

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon I'll be playing on Thurday but I like it on paper more than the last version at the least.

They actually seem to be a viable class now.

Colin Gross

@SirCinnamon Still not the same feels as 3.5, but getting closer. Not sure the trade off between level progression and making badass items will ever be there in 5th edition. The xp sacrifice of 3.5 really made the items feel valuable as they character literally poured their most valued resource into making them.

Sir Cinnamon

@Rubiksmoose What level will you be playing at

Colin Gross

7:51 PM

@Rubiksmoose Definitely more viable and fun. Ran a brief series of encounters as a 1 shot with a couple friends. Was kinda fun.

Rubiksmoose

@SirCinnamon 5-7th

V2Blast

Critical Role's animated special Kickstarter hit its goal in less than an hour and is at 1.5 million dollars already...

kickstarter.com/projects/criticalrole/…

Rubiksmoose

wowza

@ColinGross nice! what level did you play at?

Colin Gross

@Rubiksmoose 6

Rubiksmoose

@ColinGross seems like a good choice

Colin Gross

7:54 PM

artificer and figher PCs with an npc cleric they were splitting between them.

Turns our returning weapon as written is better than enhanced weapon.

Because there's nothing about returning weapon that says it has to be cast on a weapon with the ranged property.

Long story short, a fighter threw a longsword as an improvised weapon and it comes right back.

V2Blast

Did you mean "thrown"? Because that is indeed mentioned

"Returning Weapon
Item: A simple or martial weapon with the thrown property"

Colin Gross

Must have missed it then.

the turret was cool too.

V2Blast

Haha. It'd be pretty nuts if it let you throw anything and have it come back to you

Colin Gross

didn't get a chance to do the potion route as well.

Xirema

@V2Blast Eh, just use a Javelin. Only 1DPR lower than a Longsword.

And you avoid having to lookup the Improvised Weapon rules.

Colin Gross

8:00 PM

@Xirema Would have been smarter. I only came up because the fighter didn't have a ranged attack and was getting shot at. Found out the dodge action is pretty underrated.

Forced disadvantage is pretty neat.

V2Blast

Dodge is great

Rubiksmoose

Interestingly artificer seems like it should be able to attain really nice levels of AC. Especially with my warforged.

I'm not sure that is something great to aim for though lol

CTWind

I'd like to see them slightly tweak the implement rules and basically say you can use the tools or small handheld things created from the tools as spellcasting foci. Make it more canon that you can make little devices that hold your spells and bring them out when it's time to cast. Unsure if that breaks anything?

But that seems to be some of the intent they were going for

V2Blast

8:17 PM

I don't think that breaks anything - the UA hints at it, and Keith Baker basically said that that's how it should be interpreted

See "The Magic of Artifice" sidebar

Mark Wells

8:31 PM

@CTWind This makes a lot more sense than literally waving your screwdriver around to cast spells. Unless you're Doctor Who.

Xirema

@MarkWells Implying waving your screwdriver around to cast spells isn't the best method of spellcasting ever invented.

CTWind

@MarkWells I'm cool with it for some of them. Paintbrushes, for example.

Mark Wells

Paintbrushes are great until you target a monster that's too big for video memory and it crashes the universe.

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