VBA Rubberducking

12:00 AM

Yep, I'm not sure the folder icons are appropriate in the IR toolbar though.

Fugue has "toggle" and "toggle-expanded":

RELOAD!

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] 25 commits. 1 opened issue. 2 closed issues. 22 issue comments. 50462 additions. 13452 deletions.

Comintern

VS uses something more like this for collapse all:

Mathieu Guindon

Arguably a terrible icon IMO

Comintern

IKR?

The expand all is worse.

Mathieu Guindon

OTOH having VS-ish icons makes the VBE=>VS transition smoother?

Comintern

12:04 AM

Or visa-versa.

I think VS might be a stack of minus symbols now that I look at it closer.

Huh. They also have a collapse all in the errors window without an expand all.

This would be closer to the VS one:

Mathieu Guindon

Ah, makes more sense =)

Is that Fugue?

Comintern

Yes, kind of - x3 in Gimp.

Mathieu Guindon

I guess it works... right?

Comintern

Yeah, that works for collapse all. Do we want expand all?

I think the main use case would be when there are a bajillion results.

Mathieu Guindon

They kinda go hand in hand don't they

unless you're in the VS team, apparently

Comintern

12:12 AM

That's the pair in VS. TBH, I didn't know what they were until I checked the tool-tips

Mathieu Guindon

Huh, one would have expected stacked [+] icons, no?

"Scatter all the files everywhere, make a mess of everything" button

Comintern

I'm thinking stacked pluses. Maybe in the opposite direction.

Mathieu Guindon

I get the feeling they did have this exact same discussion lol

Comintern

Nah, they just asked some hipster web designer.

Mathieu Guindon

or, a plus icon but with an arrow going down?

#WingingIt

Comintern

12:18 AM

Mathieu Guindon

Yeah not so sure about it now

Comintern

Yeah, that looks a little odd.

Mathieu Guindon

#RandomThoughts at what point do we consider making the toolbar stacked?

/wrap

Comintern

That's not a bad idea - that one added the expander because of the design width.

Mathieu Guindon

~~Hey let's ditch the toolbars and add Ribbons!~~

Comintern

12:30 AM

Hey let's get sued?

We're currently overriding all of the overflow behavior manually.

Mathieu Guindon

TBH it could make a funny April Fool's joke announcement

Comintern

You could cook up some "screenshots" of the new UI...

Mathieu Guindon

Yeah, naaah

Resurrecting Clippy would be better

Comintern

I might be able to cook up some video for that...

FreeMan

Potentially stupid question: When I updated my Win7 machines to Win10, I did it just before the cutoff date for the free "upgrade" so I don't have any install media. If I wanted to install a Win10 VM, is there a way to make an install .ISO from an existing Win10 install? Do I "find" an ISO somewhere on the webz (and take all associated risks), or... I'm getting a cheap license key, so it'll be legit once I've got that, but it's just the key (I think).

Comintern

12:34 AM

@FreeMan Potentially stupid answer - can you image the drive to a .vdi or whatever you need?

FreeMan

Could. It's for my son to do a college project on, though, and he wants a clean install. I don't have anything that resembles a clean Win10 install...

Mathieu Guindon

microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows10ISO

FreeMan

I need to check with him to see if his license key will come with media and/or a DL location...

or that ^^

:)

Mathieu Guindon

Lookup "Win10 Media creation tool"

Comintern

OK, that's the narrowest you can get without it wanting to overflow.

I'm not sure how usable the results are when you get that narrow in the first place.

FreeMan

12:43 AM

@Comintern I like the expand/collapse all icons. Not sure what the grouping icons are, though. I'm sure the tool-tips will clarify, but they're not intuitive to me.

@MathieuGuindon actually have to log in as an admin user. Simply Run as Admin doesn't work. :(

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] MDoerner synchronized pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

Comintern

@FreeMan Left to right they're Inspection Type, Inspection, Location, Severity.

With tooltips ;-)

FreeMan

w/tooltips is the critical item. No way I'll remember that tomorrow morning...

Comintern

They're also fast enough that you can just click on one and see how it groups.

Mathieu Guindon

That's quite awesome

Duga

1:10 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 20968e18 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

IvenBach

@Comintern I see more icons. My inner duck is sad I'm not actively contributing right now.

Comintern

@IvenBach Your outer duck should try the new build enhancements at some point - it might resolve your build issue.

this

1:25 AM

@Comintern sorry to ask yet again but did any changes yield a change in the memory footprint?

Comintern

I don't know about the total memory consumption, but I haven't really been finding anything leaking.

Keep in mind that the WPF fixes aren't all merged yet though.

this

I guess "Blame the WPF!" theory is looking more and more unlikely.

Comintern

Well, the parse tree itself is probably our biggest memory consumer overall.

Nothing to be done about that, really.

this

oh yeah? Write up a ramdisk!

:D

Comintern

Wouldn't be that hard - create a ramdisk on startup, then use mapped files on it.

:-D

this

1:29 AM

When I profiled with dotMemory, I could not get that "blob of dark unmanaged memory" that was observed last year or so but I did note lot of string allocations.

Naw, Doesn't really solve anything. Well, except for fooling the host that we're using less memory.

Comintern

Meh, string allocations are tiny all things considered.

They're all the stupid help file URLs mainly.

this

TBH I'm not as confident on how I've been interpreting the dotMemory profiling.

Comintern

I've been watching the totals over several snapshots.

this

@Comintern wait, the one snapshot I looked at put it at the top of total memory consumed above the parse. When I expanded the details it was attributing consumption to various things like QMN's string members

Comintern

It might not be a bad idea to try out the VS tooling, although I've never really used the memory profiler.

@this Right - I was looking at the duplicate string allocation stats.

Although building an internal string lookup table would be horrendously difficult for like 10MB on a huge project.

this

1:33 AM

i was actually looking at the String.Intern and String.IsInterned

Comintern

I still think we should look into registering memory pressure to account for the host.

this

if I understand the docs correctly, strings that are built at runtime aren't interned.

Comintern

That would force some more GC runs on large projects, but it wouldn't be OOM crashy.

this

Yeah. But what if we get too big anyway?

I have an Access project that hits 1 GB ceiling in a second or 2 second of parsing.

(for whatever reasons, a 32-bit Access seems to only have 1GB available for its uses)

Comintern

Access only gives you 1GB?

this

1:35 AM

Yeah, I have yet to see it go over 1 GB in RAM.

hmm.

Comintern

That's just criminal on modern hardware.

this

let me verify something to rule out

others has reported that this isn't a problem if you use 64-bit Access

Keep in mind that in Microsoft's infinite wisdom, they haven't given Access the extended addressing they did w/ Excel. (there's already an UV for it)

Comintern

This document claims a 1GB limit for a single field.

No select * on that table, huh?

1 GB limit on recordset size.

this

but is RD even a "OLE object" saved in a document? I don't think so.

hmm what if it's that Access splits its working memory? One for its working workspace, other for query processing?

Comintern

No, but I was thinking that if you had a 1GB long text field, you damned well better be sure you only show 1 result.

> Don't worry about the 2 or 1 gig limit. You will never reach that anyway.

this

1:42 AM

I guess 1 GB is the new 640KB

Comintern

Everything I'm seeing is claiming 2GB.

this

yeah but in this project I"ve never seen it go over 1 GB

Comintern

Not that it really matters - that's still half of what you should have.

this

it nears 1 GB then starts to disintegrate the closer it gets to 1 GB

maybe one day they'll switch to 64-bit Office then I'll able to rubberduck that project.

Comintern

> If you are trying to reduce the total amount of memory your application allocates, keep in mind that interning a string has two unwanted side effects. First, the memory allocated for interned String objects is not likely to be released until the common language runtime (CLR) terminates. The reason is that the CLR's reference to the interned String object can persist after your application, or even your application domain, terminates.

> Second, to intern a string, you must first create the string. The memory used by the String object must still be allocated, even though the memory will eventually be garbage collected.

That sounds like a crapload of memory in the small object heap for each parse waiting for GC. I'm not sure that solves the issue even if it is a huge string pool.

this

1:48 AM

ew

Comintern

"after the application domain terminates"? WTF?

this

can't be right. Maybe because it's treated as MarshalByRefObject?

e.g. domain-independent.

Could be.

new one:

Wut?

1:56 AM

Sounds like good advice to me.

this

That's me trying to load RD with several forms & reports open to see if the add-in memory allocation is counted separately

Comintern

OOM?

this

I'm only breaking 200 MB

I was using 140 MB before I tried to load RD

the mitigating factor may be that I was opening forms & reports before I even opening VBE then tried to load RD (it's not set to load automatically)

Comintern

Did it log anything?

this

2:00 AM

2019-01-28 20:54:35.2073;FATAL-;Rubberduck._Extension;Startup sequence threw an unexpected exception.;System.IO.FileLoadException: Could not load file or assembly 'PresentationCore, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35' or one of its dependencies. Not enough storage is available to process this command. (Exception from HRESULT: 0x80070008)
File name: 'PresentationCore, Version=4.0.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=31bf3856ad364e35'
   at Rubberduck.Root.RubberduckIoCInstaller.Install(IWindsorContainer container, IConfigurationStore store)

strange error, though. I just verified there is enough space

Comintern

WTH?

this

IKR?

Comintern

I think we may have run into something like that before.

IvenBach

@Comintern I checked a couple days ago. Will check again tomorrow.

Comintern

@IvenBach I think it was merged this morning.

this

2:03 AM

using my deployment PR? It was merged just today

IvenBach

The Predeclared note in the CodeExplorer is :+1: IMO.

this

going to try it again but this time start w/ rD loaded up front

Comintern

Oh, I completely missed the "Not enough storage is available to process this command" part.

this

which can't be right

there's 45 GB free

Comintern

Woah. My MB doesn't even support that.

Is it including the page file?

this

2:10 AM

No, that's hard drive

which was how I interpreted the error

but now I'm getting OOM errors from Access even at ~240 MB. That's only me opening various forms. RD's loaded but hasn't parsed....

parses anyway

Comintern

LOL

this

it died w/ unexpected error.

i bet it'll be an OOM

Comintern

That's a sucker's bet.

this

yep OOM.

In short, I don't think the memory usage via taskmgr.exe is giving the full story.

Comintern

This is exactly why I wish there was an easy way to run Valgrind in Windows.

this

2:15 AM

To be honest when you sent me to that page, I kind of glazed over.

Comintern

It's hands down the best memory profiler I've ever used in Linux.

IvenBach

2:40 AM

Wish me luck on my statement of purpose for grad school.

> I have jar on the kitchen counter. It has a few coins in there. There's not a whole lot in there right now, and that's where I'm hoping you'll come in. Let me return to grad school to eventually get better employment. That way, one day I'll be able to fill it with pennies.

Duga

4:39 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier removed label PR-Status: Conflicting from pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

Duga

6:37 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Battleship] misscrocodile starred us

2

Duga

10:38 AM

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] SteveLaycock opened issue #4755: Library not found

> **Rubberduck version information**
Version 2.4.0.4492
OS: Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.17763.0, x64
Host Product: Microsoft Office x64
Host Version: 16.0.11231.20120
Host Executable: WINWORD.EXE

Rubberduck is installed and appears in the menu bar but macros give a Library not found error.

Tools.References says that the RubberDuck addin is missing.

Looking in the ProgramData\Rubberduck directory it would seem that RebberDuck.x64.tlb is missing.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] SteveLaycock added label bug to issue #4755: Library not found

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] SteveLaycock edited issue #4755: Library not found

FreeMan

12:54 PM

@this I haven't a clue...

@this Is a String.Intern anything like a @Comintern?

@Duga after a while...

Mathieu Guindon

> Rubberduck.Setup.2.4.0.4488.exe (4.03 MiB) - downloaded 128 times. Last updated on 2019-01-28

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier created comment on issue #4755: Library not found

> Indeed. I can reproduce this. As workaround use 4488.

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier added label critical to issue #4755: Library not found

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier added label installer to issue #4755: Library not found

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier assigned bclothier to issue #4755: Library not found

Vogel612

that looks like the green release is seriously bork

this

@FreeMan haven't a clue whether Dwight's been up to no good or no clue who he is?

@Vogel612 no, that's the pre

4488 is the green

Vogel612

~phew

this

1:09 PM

Ironically, I had mistaken downloaded 4488 the first time when I meant to get 4492 and it did work just fine.

It's because of my deployment changes. I managed to not include the 64-bit TLB somehow.

this

1:20 PM

16>midl.exe /win32 /tlb "Rubberduck.x32.tlb" "Rubberduck.idl" /out "C:\GitHub\Rubberduck\Rubberduck\Rubberduck.Deployment\bin"
16>midl.exe /amd64 /tlb "Rubberduck.x32.tlb" "Rubberduck.idl" /out "C:\GitHub\Rubberduck\Rubberduck\Rubberduck.Deployment\bin"

doh!

Mathieu Guindon

LOL!

#CopyPastaBusted

2

=)

this

That also explains why it loads just fine

which was puzzling me

FreeMan

@this no clue who

this

Dwight Schrute

Dwight Kurt Schrute III (born January 20, 1978) is a character on The Office (U.S. TV series) portrayed by Rainn Wilson. He is one of the highest-ranking salesmen as well as assistant to the regional manager(or assistant regional manager, if you are Dwight) at the paper distribution company Dunder Mifflin. Additionally, he is a bed-and-breakfast proprietor at Schrute Farms, a beet plantation owner, and an owner of the business park in which Dunder Mifflin exists. He is notorious for his lack of social skills and common sense, his love for martial arts and the justice system, and his office rivalry...

FreeMan

oh.

Never seen the show.

this

1:28 PM

anyway, this kind of thing sounds exactly like the character would have done

I wonder if I should be writing unit tests to assert the output in the bin folder...

(technically that violates the idea of unit testing because... IO)

this

1:41 PM

anyone else noticing R# seems to keep forgetting that we're using C# 7.2?

FreeMan

@this sorry for raining on your parade...

this

Don't you mean Rainning? :D

@mansellan ever see those keys before? HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VBA\VBEUI

FreeMan

2:02 PM

@this suuuuure.... ;)

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier created pull request #4756: Prevent overwriting the 64-bit type library to merge bclothier/Rubberduck/DeploymentEnhancement into rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/next

> Closes #4755

this

and on that, I would like to apologize profusely for boneheading the ducky.

this

2:22 PM

I'm just curious - is it worthwhile opening an issue about the tests jumping from 6:10 mark to 14:50 mark in a span of single line?

Mathieu Guindon

@this what's that?

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit a3c3da36 on unknown branch: AppVeyor build succeeded

this

line 4:14 mismatched input 'Step' expecting '.'
=> RubberduckTests.Inspections.MemberNotOnInterfaceInspectionTests.MemberNotOnInterface_DoesNotReturnResult_BangNotation

That's all I have - mouse over the first line, it says 6:10. The 2nd, it's now 14:50.

Whether it was running 1 test or a gazillion tests in between the 2 lines, I have no clue.

Comintern

Why is that logging to output to begin with?

this

ci.appveyor.com/project/rubberduck-vba/rubberduck/builds/…

I honestly don't know.

Mathieu Guindon

3:00 PM

just noticed the new chat link on readme.md -- nice!

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] web-flow pushed commit ec04b807 to next: Update README.md

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder closed issue #4755: Library not found

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder merged pull request #4756: Prevent overwriting the 64-bit type library from bclothier/Rubberduck/DeploymentEnhancement into rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck/next

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] bclothier pushed commit a3c3da36 to next: Correct an issue where 64-bit type library get overwritten

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] web-flow pushed commit 13de1a8b to next

Merge pull request #4756 from bclothier/DeploymentEnhancement

Prevent overwriting the 64-bit type library

this

@MathieuGuindon yeah saw a similar badge on other git repos so why not copycat a bit? :) It wan't one of preset badges but shields.io lets you make your custom ones, so.

KySoto

3:16 PM

mornin

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder commented on RubberduckTests/Rewriter/MemberAttributeRecovererTests.cs of pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder commented on Rubberduck.Parsing/Rewriter/MemberAttributeRecoverer.cs of pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder commented on Rubberduck.Core/UI/Notifiers/MemberAttributeRecoveryFailureNotifier.cs of pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

Mathieu Guindon

@KySoto good morning!

any objections to merging #4686?

KySoto

OBJECTION!

I AM INCOMPETENT!

sorry

had to.

this

@MathieuGuindon I doubt this will cause an issue - I had the idea of merging from oldest to newest

Primarily just to get the oldest PR field-tested sooner than later.

Mathieu Guindon

4072 then?

this

3:31 PM

Especially for 4072 where the changes is quite large scale.

Mathieu Guindon

or should 4072 be merged into some "staging" branch first?

Duga

[rubberduck203/VBEX] Inarion starred us

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] rubberduck-vba-releasebot published prerelease Prerelease-v2.4.0.4495

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] rubberduck-vba-releasebot created tag Prerelease-v2.4.0.4495

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] build for commit 13de1a8b on next: AppVeyor build succeeded

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] comintern commented on Rubberduck.Parsing/Rewriter/MemberAttributeRecoverer.cs of pull request #4686: Recovering member attributes

Mathieu Guindon

@ticker they're CSS classes...

this

@MathieuGuindon That's been a discussion that's been on and off

The consensus so far has been that it's more hassles than help and we would have a hotfix branch to support the master branch

Duga

[rubberduck-vba/Rubberduck] retailcoder deleted branch staging

this

3:44 PM

To clarify I should not really call it "consensus" - I'm not sure if everyone had their $0.02 in.

Comintern

Should SO questions with code copied and pasted from other websites verbatim be flagged? I'm not entirely sure how that works with the CCA license.

Mathieu Guindon

the HTTP response text is licensed??

Comintern

No, this one: stackoverflow.com/q/54423698/4088852

Mathieu Guindon

TBH all these web-scraping questions are bloody annoying..

Comintern

It comes from here: datanumen.com/blogs/…

There are a bunch of meta discussions about answers, but I'm not finding much about questions.

this

3:50 PM

why not copy'n'paste answer: Use Selenium. Don't understand it? Sucks to be you.

or Use API like everyone else does.

that may not conform to the SO's guidelines, though....

KySoto

oof..

is that selenium and water?

by hand?

this

seleniumhq.org

There's a library for VBA for using Selenium, too.

KySoto

oh... i was thinking of elemental selenium

this

Also #TIL they have an IDE now

which makes it less of an excuse to not use it.

KySoto

and hte resulting explosion youd get by mixing it with water by hand

this

3:54 PM

well, that's web surfing, isn't it?

KySoto

lol

ive looked for selenium explosions

sadly htere are none on youtube

this

OMG that expression was painful to read - sooo 90s.

probably not suitable for children?

KySoto

wait...

im an idiot

i was thinking of cesium

Comintern

There are a ton of good sodium-water explosions on YouTube. I didn't know about the cesium reaction.

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