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12:03 AM
@DavidCarlisle oh
 
12:22 AM
Quick question: When doing by bib file Eur. J. Inorg. Chem. should become Eur.~J.~Inorg. Chem., Eur. J.~Inorg. Chem., or Eur.~J. Inorg. Chem.,?
Or should I leave it alone, since the J will stay with the Eur or the Inorg and either is fine?
 
@Canageek I'd go for Eur.~J. Inorg. Chem.
 
@egreg OK
 
@Canageek On the other hand, it should be J.~Amer. Math. Soc.
 
@egreg Right, since you want the J to stick with Amer.
Its ones where the J is in the middle that I'm unsure on
 
@Canageek Yes, avoid a dangling “J.” with nothing before or after. But opinions may differ.
 
12:27 AM
@egreg so if for example "The U.S. of America" should be right for you?
 
@egreg Now to figure out "Chemistry, A European Journal" (Web of Science says Chem.-Eur. J., so Chem.-Eur.~J.)
But I'm pretty sure they dropped the hyphen as it doesn't appear anywhere on the website, so Chem. Eur.~J. I guess
 
12:59 AM
Hi folks. Is ctan.org/pkg/genealogytree the best thing available for creating family trees?
 
1:31 AM
@FaheemMitha I think so. It seems pretty comprehensive, and I haven't seen any other packages recommended on the site.
@DavidCarlisle Because I allow users to have multiple config files with a prefix set in the preamble. So a user might have two config files AConfig.cfg and BConfig.cfg and only needs to set the prefix A or B in the preamble. But doing it this way, requires \AtBeginDocument.
 
@AlanMunn Ok. Thank you.
 
 
4 hours later…
5:37 AM
@HenriMenke - Just made it to the chat room.
 
@Mico Hi.
 
@hi
 
@Mico Coud you please update github.com/micoloretan/selnolig to match the CTAN version?
@Mico I'd like to make some improvements (or at least try if my ideas work).
 
@HenriMenke - oops, I'd completely forgotten about the github site!! Yikes!!!
@HenriMenke - How urgent is your request? The reason I ask is that I'm in Hong Kong at the moment, whereas most of my selnolig-related notes are still back in Switzerland. I am set to return to Zurich in 10 days, though.
 
@Mico No worries. It is not urgent.
 
5:41 AM
@HenriMenke - Thanks. If I haven't updated the github files in 10 days, feel free to send me a reminder. Best, Mico
 
@Mico Great! Thank you in advance.
 
6:34 AM
> Microsoft Suggests Windows 10 Mobile Users Switch To iOS or Android As Support Winds Down
 
 
1 hour later…
7:40 AM
@JosephWright is this PDF produced using (La)TeX? 🤔
 
@manooooh Yes, open it in Acrobat reader and click on the right button the mouse, select "document properties" you'll see: Application: TeX
 
8:18 AM
@manooooh Yes, achemso class
 
@JosephWright there is really a noticible improvement in the loading time ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, I think so
 
8:35 AM
@JosephWright pity, one argument less for putting expl3 in the kernel ;-).
 
@CarLaTeX nice to know (it is like arXiv), thank you!
@JosephWright ok, by the font it seemed done with Word hehe that was why I asked, thank you for clarifying the doubt!
 
@manooooh Probably any pdf reader can show it, you're welcome! (I learnt it on TeX.SE)
 
@DavidCarlisle what should we do about the longtable/bidi problem?
 
@CarLaTeX do you mean that any PDF reader can show the program used to create the document?
 
@manooooh yes
 
8:44 AM
@CarLaTeX :O
@CarLaTeX could you tell me how or where I can find the information, please?
I use Acrobat Reader DC (which does not like anyone but I like :D) and it never showed any window that says that info
 
@manooooh File ---> properties
 
@manooooh file menu - properties.
 
@manooooh Me too, or click as I said before
 
@UlrikeFischer inside the program?
 
@manooooh Inside Acrobat
 
8:52 AM
@CarLaTeX oh yes, you are right. That is weird...
I do not want to give that information if I share my documents :'(
Is there any option to hide/delete that info? I tried with Double Click on the document -> Properties -> Details -> Remove properties and personal information but with no effect
 
@manooooh Sorry, I don't know it
 
@manooooh which one do you want to remove?
 
13
Q: Remove metadata of pdf generated by LaTeX

John SmithNot sure how relevant my question is to this forum but I will go ahead and ask anyway :). I use LaTeX to create pdf which, as expected, indicates "TeX" as the source. I need to upload this pdf online but want to avoid uploading original LaTeX files. I removed the metadata of the pdf using AdobePr...

 
@manooooh That someone can tell you used tex is a minor problem compared to other metadata that can leak: I once received a referee report for a paper I had submitted, in which the metadata contained the full pathname to the document on the reviewer's machine. And that contained the reviewer's username on the system, which made it easy to guess who it was. Fortunately, it was a very positive review, so the damage was minimal.
… Still, I told the editor about the issue, and he was appropriately alarmed.
 
@UlrikeFischer where it says "Advanced":
Anyway I will see the answer question provided by @CarLaTeX
 
8:58 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Argh!
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen hi! Thank you for your answer. I share documents in Argentina (I do not know if there are people that can see in another countries). However, in this country you have to be very cautious because you can steal personal information, as happened with the case you mention
@CarLaTeX I am seeing the answer and it this pretty cool, I will try to implement it, many thanks!
Lol, I can not believe that Adobe still has the same windows as 5 years ago ... is it a good thing? :P
 
@manooooh You're welcome!
 
9:14 AM
@CarLaTeX it is working! <3
 
@manooooh Perfect :)
 
What is this line of code for?:
unicode=false, % non-Latin characters in Acrobat’s bookmarks
I want to display letters with accents without using \'..., that can be copied well, etc. Should I change it to "true"?
 
@manooooh I don't know, I would say "try" :)
 
@CarLaTeX there says "bookmark", will it be modified that is NOT part of the document? If so, for me it is fine
 
@manooooh I think you're right but I'm not an expert
 
9:19 AM
@CarLaTeX ok, no problem. You are fast enough to please a user with a response and accurate :D
 
@manooooh lol
 
I will try
Although I have never used "bookmarks" that I remember
 
9:30 AM
Oh, the property "Created on:" and "Modified on:" continue to appear, can they be removed?
I am trying to find the answer in the hyperref manual but I cannot find it
I edit my documents until 4-5 am hehe
 
@manooooh pdfTeX? You can add \pdfinfoomitdate = 1
 
@JosephWright uhhmm probably yes, I use "LaTeX -> PS -> PDF" output
 
@manooooh Ah, so 'no' then ;)
@manooooh In that case, TeX doesn't set the date at all, it's GhostScript
 
@UlrikeFischer I'm wondering (take to mail:-)
 
@JosephWright you are right
@JosephWright so? Must I change some of GhostScript property (which I have to investigate because I do not know what is GhostScript)?
 
9:35 AM
@manooooh why?
 
@DavidCarlisle I paste pdfinfoomitdate=1 into hypersetup and it says "! Package kvsetkeys Error: Undefined key `pdfinfoomitdate'."
 
@manooooh no I meant why do you use latex/dvips/ghostscript instead of pdflatex?
 
@DavidCarlisle I do not know what I am using
 
@manooooh No, I didn't mean as an argument to hyperref, I meant directly in your source
 
@JosephWright oh, sorry. With \pdfinfoomitdate=1 in the preamble the document compiles but the time the document was created still appears
 
9:40 AM
@manooooh unless you are using pstricks there are very few advantages to using latex, which makes dvi files that you don't want that you convert with dvips to postscript files that you don't want that you convert with ps2pdf (ghostscript) to pdf. when you can use pdflatex which makes pdf.
 
@manooooh Yes: it will only work in direct PDF mode
@manooooh I'll check my notes for DVIPS route: more tricky
  \special{%
    pdf: docinfo
      <<
        /Creator        (TeX)
        /CreationDate   ()
        /ModDate        ()
      >>
  }
@manooooh ^^^
 
@DavidCarlisle I am so sorry, I cannot understand what is the conversion for. I use MikTeX, then I write the code inside TeXnicCenter, then I compile with LaTeX->PS->PDF and then I get the PDF. I only do that, I rarely have images (in .eps) or smt like that. So with this context is the best option to compile with pdftex?
 
@manooooh texniccenter must have a pdflatex option instead of latex-ps-pdf, I'd be surprised if it isn't the default.
 
@JosephWright thanks for searching so deep! Unfortunately, when I paste that code into the preamble of my document, the creation date still appears (and in fact if the "Creator" option changes the name of the creator because it does not work for me, it seems to have priority hypersetup - what I pasted up and under it and I commented but it still does not work)
@DavidCarlisle I will search, we can probably change it
@DavidCarlisle ^^^^^^
 
@manooooh If you are using hyperref, it will overwrite some of those values
@manooooh I've got to head out in a second, but I will look later at how to set from hyperref
 
9:54 AM
@JosephWright yes, very probably I think
 
@manooooh you won't need a new option just use the oe set up already latex-pdf (third from top) I assume that is pdflatex
 
@JosephWright ok, when you can, there is no hurry! Thank you again
@DavidCarlisle yes, probably! When I selected that option, I compiled using CTRL+F7 and then the program crashed, the PDF was not produced and the next window appeared:
Maybe it is because I changed the option with the code already compiled in another way (there are all the files generated before, such as pdf, txt, etc.)
Now I will try to compile using a new Proyect
--- Nope the same window appeared using LaTeX->PDF :/ :(
The log file of this new blank Proyect:
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.18 (MiKTeX 2.9.6500 64-bit) (preloaded format=pdflatex 2018.4.20) 19 JAN 2019 07:02
entering extended mode
**./aaa.tex
(aaa.tex
LaTeX2e <2017-04-15>
Babel <3.15> and hyphenation patterns for 75 language(s) loaded.
("C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9\tex\latex\base\article.cls"
Document Class: article 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
("C:\Program Files\MiKTeX 2.9\tex\latex\base\size10.clo"
File: size10.clo 2014/09/29 v1.4h Standard LaTeX file (size option)
I will follow this instructions:
71
A: TeXnicCenter & Adobe Reader DC

Jiří ChmelíkCan be solved by proper setting in TeXnicCenter: Go to menu: "Build"-> "Define Output Profiles." choose profile "LateX to PDF". Switch to "Viewer" tab Set-up parameters: "Executable path" should be something like (check, where have you installed Adobe Reader): C:\Program Files (x86)\Ado...

IT WORKED!!
@DavidCarlisle (or any) I think we had this conversation before, but do you know if when babel (and it seems hyphenation too) load 75 languages the compile time slow down? Because I only use English and Spanish to generate the documents, is there any advantage in not loading 73 languages, and is it possible to do so?
 
10:19 AM
@manooooh it makes no difference to the run time, they are preloaded in the format
 
@DavidCarlisle good to know
 
10:33 AM
@JosephWright look at this, it was \pdfinfo{/CreationDate () /ModDate ()} :):)
People, do you recommend use pdfprivacy's package?
If it works correctly then we have wasted time finding those commands hahaha
 
@manooooh why do you care if someone knows that you used miktex at 1 in the morning?
 
@DavidCarlisle it is confidential information, why should we divulge that?
 
@DavidCarlisle The meta data store the document path -- including potential paths to home directories and user names on some systems
 
@ChristianHupfer he is not asking about that but only the Creation Date and the Modified Date, I think
 
@manooooh Ah, I didn't read the whole thread here... I thought it's about generally removing meta data for reasons of privacy
 
10:40 AM
@ChristianHupfer no, I think we all agree that we should not provide personal information to the Internet when we share a file unless we agree to do so
 
@manooooh well the file path I can see some people would worry about but I can't see why creation date is anything to worry about. If you do fine you can reset it but asking as general question about a privacy package won't get any sensible replies as there is no general reason why someone needs to hide those things,
 
@DavidCarlisle Unless the due date was 3 days ago and you ended yesterday :)
 
@manooooh shrug: if the file has your real name in the plain text in the \author text, there's not a lot of point in hiding metadata about who created the file. Not all files have your real name but as I say it all depends on circumstances.
@CarLaTeX "normal state for homework" :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I asked if that package is good in the way that if the package does not send the information to places outside the computer, if it works well, if it hides the greatest amount of metadata, etc.
 
@manooooh I am data protection commissioner at my working place, there's enough to do and to hide according to the GDPR ;-)
 
10:43 AM
@DavidCarlisle that's what I was thinking of :)
 
@manooooh no idea, never used it, it will just be setting the pdfinfo fields as Joseph showed
 
@ChristianHupfer I'm the same for my office, GDPR is a nightmare
 
@DavidCarlisle obviously. If there are personal information that we want share we can fill that values with the information. But there are a lot of unnecesary information
@ChristianHupfer so much as to discover the address of my home in a PDF made with LaTeX? :P
@DavidCarlisle ok
 
@CarLaTeX Well, yes and no... there was a lot of laissez-faire in the past concerncing data protection. We have to secure grades, assessments of students etc. We're thinking of enforcing encryption of mails written by teachers
@manooooh This is a serious topic -- no need ridiculing it...
 
@manooooh some people take a default privacy position, and hide real names and use weird avatars etc, there is nothing wrong with that, but personally I take a more open position and only escalate the secrecy if there is confidential information that I need to hide. I use my real name and real picture here, if you google my name you can fairly easily find my user name on various accounts, my home address, phone number and lots of other details.
 
10:49 AM
Oh, I had noticed when I try to copy math using LaTeX->PDF output there are impure characters
@ChristianHupfer huh
 
@ChristianHupfer Maybe it's worse for us, because we have the personal data of the customers which could be used for (unwanted) marketing (not my office, fortunately, we only do statistical reports)
 
@CarLaTeX Of course, companies have more troubles, they could be fined for violations -- we're a public school, run by the local government, there's no money to obtain from us ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer that's it!
 
@DavidCarlisle and it seems to me very well that it can be known about you. In fact it seems that you have never won enemies (serious enemies, not the users here). What happens is that we are not the 20th century, but now computer attacks can happen more quickly and more accurately; there is also every crazy person in the world ... I have always suffered for those people who live in countries at war, who go to look for them and kill them for no reason.
It is very terrible that, I think that providing metadata someday that could happen
 
@DavidCarlisle: I've checked whether my address, phone number is public: Nope... But I found other people having the same name like me ... and some of them are public ;-)
 
10:54 AM
@ChristianHupfer :O
@ChristianHupfer now at 2019 two people are the same if and only if they share the same IP address xD
2
 
@manooooh yes all this is very tied to personal circumstances, there is no right answer.
 
@DavidCarlisle Also your home address? So I can order a real pizza for you!
 
@manooooh That's a strange interpretation. That would mean my wife and I would be the same person ;-)
@CarLaTeX Yes, but hurry up, just before the 29th of March ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer yes of course, you are intertwined for life ... or until you separate, which will cause a separation of housing. Haha, you made me checkmate!
@CarLaTeX someome said pizza!? I want it, too!
 
@ChristianHupfer When he becomes a non-EU citizen :)
 
11:02 AM
Once again, thank you all for your cooperation. They are always attentive and patient, what is missing today. Until next time!
 
@CarLaTeX Yes ... no need to worry about the GDPR then in UK ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer That's why they vote for Brexit :)
 
@ChristianHupfer perhaps they will delay brexit to give time for the pizza delivery
 
@CarLaTeX Ah. I thought because voters are lied to on the huge amount of money they would spend per week for the EU ... as Boris Johnson etc. claimed...
@DavidCarlisle It could work if you would have my local pizza delivery service here ... while waiting for the pizza you can grow tomatoes, wheat for the flour in the dough, yeast, make cheese and all the other ingredients as well ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer There is someone who says the same things in Italy...
 
11:14 AM
@CarLaTeX The number of liars spreads ... and the number of stupids that believe them as well :-(
 
@ChristianHupfer Putting the blame on the EU is a convenient excuse for political incompetence, method used by many parties here
 
@CarLaTeX Not only in Italy. Basically everywhere in the EU...
 
@ChristianHupfer That's why I said Brexit is a threat for the EU more than for the UK
 
@CarLaTeX No, I don't think so... it's a 'sandbox' (sorry @DavidCarlisle) that shows what will happen when populists in other countries try to play weird games.
 
@ChristianHupfer I'm not so optimistic, the UK has the Commonwealth, I don't think they suffer too much for Brexit in the long run, EU nations alone are isolated it would be very different for us
 
11:28 AM
@CarLaTeX: Well, I am not sure about the Commonwealth -- it doesn't seem to be a strong bond really to me, but Britons may have a different, more profound view on this.
 
@ChristianHupfer It's not a strong bond but it's a world-wide relationship, convenient for business, I think
 
@CarLaTeX it's a strong relationship, but trade relations are insignificant compared to those with EU and US.
 
@CarLaTeX Well, I don't want to sound hard, but apart from Canada, Australia and Singapore (is that a member of the Commonwealth at all?) ... which member countries are economically strong?
 
@DavidCarlisle The US are not in the EU, and you do business with them, anyway...
@ChristianHupfer India?
 
@CarLaTeX Is India part of the Commonwealth? @DavidCarlisle?
 
11:35 AM
@ChristianHupfer I don't know
 
@CarLaTeX yes because they want to trade with the EU but the most of you speak latin or some weird dialect:-)
 
As long as I can buy rubber ducks for the lowest price, I am fine. :)
3
 
@PauloCereda I love you
 
@ChristianHupfer yes
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks.
 
11:37 AM
@CarLaTeX I think I sound like an idiot saying that...
 
@DavidCarlisle You've just listed another advantage of the UK compared to the rest of the EU: the simple language which everybody (more or less) speaks
@PauloCereda Noooooooooooooooo, it's sooooooooooo funny
 
@CarLaTeX if you say so :)
I WANT TO BE BRITISH
 
@PauloCereda I prefer to be Italian and eat better food
 
@PauloCereda get nationality quick and then you can vote remain if they re-run the referendum
 
@CarLaTeX: Ok, India is a stronger member of the CW regarding economy, but I think @DavidCarlisle is right about his statement regarding the trading with non-EU/US countries
 
11:55 AM
@ChristianHupfer Let's fix an appointment in 10 years' time to see who guessed right :)
 
@DavidCarlisle I am too lazy. :)
 
12:12 PM
@UlrikeFischer mail sent. we'll see....
 
12:59 PM
@UlrikeFischer (@JosephWright) Vafa says I should update bidi.
 
1:48 PM
Hello!! I am looking at a Latex Code and there is the following command:
"\definecolor{shadecolor}{gray}{0.75}"

Is it possible to make that for the colour brown instead of gray? I tried to use the command "\definecolor{shadecolor}{brown}{0.75}" but I get then the error "Undefined color model <brown>".
 
@MaryStar gray there is not the colour it is the color model, giving meaning to 0.75, so replace {gray} by something like {rgb} for red green blue than you can change 0.75 to {.7,.3,.1}` or whatever mix you want
@ChristianHupfer I know that:-)
 
Ahh I see!! I will try that! Thank you!! @DavidCarlisle
 
@DavidCarlisle I addressed the wrong person ;-)
 
35 secs ago, by David Carlisle
@ChristianHupfer I know that:-)
@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright now I have to see if I want to persuade l3build to remake mirrors.ctan.org/install/macros/xetex/latex/bidi.tds.zip or whether to do as I did for oberdiek and simply use the existing directory structure there to drive a shell script that copies everything in place. I suspect I'll do the latter:-0
 
2:20 PM
Does anybody know why there are suddenly so many old posts in the first post review queue? Normally the posts there are a couple of minutes old, but today there are some from last week (tex.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/164301) or even last year (tex.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/164302)
 
@DavidCarlisle ;-). But then the task to update will probably stick to you...
 
@ChristianHupfer -- here's a book by a person who really did that himself (built a pizza oven, grew the wheat and tomatoes and basil ... he couldn't grow olives in iowa) and wrote about it: solmentes.com/davidesslemont2/books/pizza.html he did have a misfortune in the process; his first oven caught fire and burned down, but he just started over.
 
@samcarter I see none
 
2:36 PM
@UlrikeFischer @egreg
$ git push
Counting objects: 11, done.
Delta compression using up to 4 threads.
Compressing objects: 100% (11/11), done.
Writing objects: 100% (11/11), 1.64 KiB | 336.00 KiB/s, done.
Total 11 (delta 4), reused 0 (delta 0)
remote: Resolving deltas: 100% (4/4), completed with 2 local objects.
To github.com:bidi-tex/bidi.git
   4dc38b1..8f4a9ee  master -> master
@UlrikeFischer I have checked in l3build that unpacks and the tests pass doesn't make the right tds structure yet, I may look later or may just build directly, need to stop for a bit (the l3build uses shell-escape and a mv command which isn't great but I don't want to change Vafa's structure too much)
 
2:50 PM
@barbarabeeton Lucky thing that pineapples are hard to grow in Iowa, otherwise the first name of the author makes me fear that he would put them on the pizza
@egreg You mean you see none in your queue (maybe they are all finished now?) or that you don't see the reviews I linked to?
 
@samcarter I see nothing in my queue. Sorry, I didn't look at the links.
@samcarter Problems with the queuing, perhaps.
 
@samcarter -- oh, no. the author is quite traditional concerning pizza! even though he is british, and used to be the artistic director of gregynog press in wales. i don't think he'd even consider putting pepperoni on a pizza he made, much less pineapple. (he's quite serious about food, and a few years ago won a chili cookoff, and wrote about that too, after which that book won several prizes.)
 
@egreg Could very well be a queuing problem. If you don't have any in your queue this could mean that the haunting of undeath first posts is over now (it started around midnight here, so I assume haunting is a likely explanation :) Thanks for checking your queue!
@barbarabeeton Oh, I stand corrected. There indeed seems to be at least one British David who knows what should and should not be on a pizza!
 
 
2 hours later…
4:57 PM
@marmot You are fantastic! ahahh Very beautiful the marmot coil. :-)
@Mico I send you my best and most affectionate greetings. See you soon and always I wish you all the best.
 
@samcarter best things to put on a pizza: anything that annoys @CarlaTeX and @egreg
 
@DavidCarlisle so spurious spaces and \ensuremath?
 
@AlanMunn good idea: Comic Sans Pizza
4
 
@DavidCarlisle It would be a more interesting challenge to find something that just annoys the Italians but not the rest of the world as well :)
 
@samcarter that's easy, ham and pineapple is the worlds favourite topping
 
5:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle OK, where can I get last minute tickets to the Moon or Mars?
 
@samcarter here or from that tesla bloke
 
@samcarter You could join @PauloCereda and the Nutella pizza crowd.
 
Will broke one of my testfiles ;-(
 
@UlrikeFischer trying to arrange an update of another one of my adoptions:(
@UlrikeFischer I am of course the most natural person to be maintaining a tikz package documented in French.
 
5:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle ;-) Should I look? (I checked bidi. Is it really so difficult to use l3build directly? It seems to have only three standard ctan folders and only one input/source folder).
@DavidCarlisle But I get not error either from the example. So it is quite unclear what the problem is ...
 
@UlrikeFischer the package certainly uses a colour that is only defined in the documentation, but I'm not sure how to make it use it (and I have nver used tkz-* so I don't really know what they do at all). The package has \tikzset{node style/.append style = { fill = fondpaille}} but that fondpaille doesn't seem defined but I couldn't work out how to make it try to use that fill
 
@DavidCarlisle I hate bug reports with working examples ;-). Where is the point?
 
@UlrikeFischer bidi I will look again this evening it's probably buildable with l3build, I got as far as it building something but I haven't checked yet whether all the files ended up in the tds zip.
 
5:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle I'm not sure if this are good options: one founder is British, the other had a British grandmother -- I'm worried that they will serve pineapple pizza during the flight...
@AlanMunn not really pizza, but sounds better than pineapple :)
 
@DavidCarlisle You need to add \tkzTabSetup to the example, then it initialize some styles, and uses the fondpaille color.
 
@UlrikeFischer ooh thanks, let me try,...
@UlrikeFischer ! Package xcolor Error: Undefined color fondpaille'.`
 
@DavidCarlisle you could then remove also the reference to hyperref from the build.lua ...
 
@UlrikeFischer you might think I copied a random build file from a nearby checkout...
 
@DavidCarlisle I think replacing fondpaille by \cmdTAB@TTS@backgroundcolor is the correct fix. I see no other color/key that could fit.
 
6:01 PM
@UlrikeFischer yes that's what I thought but feel happier now there is a test file, thanks for the help.
 
6:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle :P
 
@samcarter Oh no! Airline food is already bad enough!
@samcarter Rumors say that one of your TikZlings made it on a flyer distributed at this event... ;-)
 
6:54 PM
@marmot can you show it? ;-)
 
I backported the current TeX Live 2018 packages in Debian unstable, but it's now talking about TeX Live 2019.
pdflatex --version
pdfTeX 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.19 (TeX Live 2019/dev/Debian)
kpathsea version 6.3.1/dev
Copyright 2018 Han The Thanh (pdfTeX) et al.
There is NO warranty.  Redistribution of this software is
covered by the terms of both the pdfTeX copyright and
the Lesser GNU General Public License.
For more information about these matters, see the file
named COPYING and the pdfTeX source.
Primary author of pdfTeX: Han The Thanh (pdfTeX) et al.
Compiled with libpng 1.6.28; using libpng 1.6.28
Compiled with zlib 1.2.8; using zlib 1.2.8
These correspond to Debian version number 2018.20181214-1
Why does it say TeX Live 2019/dev/Debian?
 
@UlrikeFischer I prefer not to.
 
7:14 PM
@FaheemMitha Debian gets to try texlive early, not surprising since same developer packages both versions
 
@DavidCarlisle So this isn't the current version? And packages both versions, meaning what?
 
@FaheemMitha The Debian tex package is maintained by Norbert Preining who's one of the main texlive maintainers, and handles tlmgr in particular.
 
@DavidCarlisle Oh, I didn't know he worked on TeX Live too. Or I've forgotten.
Anyway, is this an unreleased version then?
And if so, it is ok to use?
 
@FaheemMitha what do you get from pdflatex '\show\expanded' ?
@FaheemMitha it's released to debian unstable:-) texlive pretest of 2019 hasn't even started yet (unless I missed it) so it's an early build but what can go wrong....
 
@UlrikeFischer You got mail.
 
7:41 PM
latex '\show\expanded'
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.19 (TeX Live 2019/dev/Debian) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
LaTeX2e <2018-12-01>
> \expanded=\expanded.
<*> \show\expanded

?
 
@FaheemMitha You just made @JosephWright happy.
 
@DavidCarlisle I don't know what could go wrong, which is why I am asking.
@DavidCarlisle ?
 
@FaheemMitha everyone with tl 2018 gets:
$ pdflatex '\show\expanded'
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.19 (TeX Live 2018) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
 restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
LaTeX2e <2018-12-01> pre-release-7
> \expanded=undefined.
<*> \show\expanded

?
 
@DavidCarlisle Ok.
 
7:46 PM
@DavidCarlisle I read it. But the relevance is not immediately obvious.
Oh, I guess that the point is that \expanded actually works for the 2019 prerelease.
 
@FaheemMitha yes, it's first time in a long time you see a new primitive
 
Anyway, should I just carry on?
 
@FaheemMitha yes
 
@DavidCarlisle A new TeX primitive?
@DavidCarlisle Ok, thank you.
I assume the author of that article is Joseph Wright. At least that "(c) 2019 Joseph Wright" suggests it. Though that's a non-standard way of denoting authorship.
 
8:06 PM
@marmot nice ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer Well, that's certainly a timely answer. Thank you.
Though I don't understand the 2017/dev part either.
so the 2019 development sources are available, but people are not typically installing them?
 
user image
5
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes, the TikZlings help a lot. ;-) (And they were careful enough to invite some lady from Milano, so there is absolutely no danger that anyone could even think of putting pineapple on a pizza.)
 
@FaheemMitha that's a typo. It should be 2019/dev.
 
@Werner Congrats!
 
8:18 PM
@UlrikeFischer That's what I thought. Then someone should fix it.
 
@FaheemMitha I think for upstream texlive the pretest hasn't started so yo need to compile from source, the binaries are not available
 
@CarLaTeX Thanks. There's been a bunch over this month.
 
@Werner just make sure you get exactly 4,400 points and no unfortunate accepts at the last minute to push off course:-)
 
@marmot Ooooh I didn't know Fabiola Gianotti is from Milano
 
@CarLaTeX Wikipedia says so. "Fabiola Gianotti received a PhD in experimental particle physics from the University of Milan in 1989."
 
8:26 PM
@FaheemMitha it's his personal blog, so yes
@marmot must be true then
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmmmh, do you edit Wikipedia sites?
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll make sure to get accepts in duplicate to correct any off-course notions.
:)
 
@Werner last time I was on course for a nice palindrome someone accepted at 1 minute to midnight and there was no time to correct:( Then I had a couple of undeserved downvotes so no palindromes for me for a while
@marmot the pages I have edited are all error free and totally reliable.
 
@DavidCarlisle Sure. And all questions you asked on the main site are absolutely clear and not misleading, right? ;-)
 
@Werner This one is peculiar, only 4s and 0s
 
8:33 PM
@marmot that is true yes, but I have edited more wikipedia pages than I have asked questions on this site.
 
@marmot Ah, OK, she studied in Milan but she's from Rome
 
@CarLaTeX OK, I guess that there are two interpretations what "from" might mean. I meant the academic origin (and should have said this).
 
@marmot ok :)
 
@marmot you could feel the derogatory sneer in @CarLaTeX's Milanese "she's from Rome" from here:-)
 
@CarLaTeX In any case, pizze are safe. ;-)
 
8:37 PM
@DavidCarlisle Not at all, I would have been proud if she was Milanese
@marmot Of course!
@DavidCarlisle Yesterday the camorra (mafia from Naple) put a bomb at Sorbillo's, a very famous pizzeria in Naple. Today a comedian on TV has said: "Next time camorra will do a more serious attack: put pineapple on pizza".
 
@DavidCarlisle ^^^do you see the difference? The one is with an older fontspec and the other with the newest one.
 
@UlrikeFischer If you just wrote x^2, you wouldn't have the problem...
 
@marmot the two would still be in the wrong style ;-(.
 
8:52 PM
@UlrikeFischer OK, then use x squared. ;-)
@CarLaTeX I guess our chat is dangerous as it gives people bad ideas.
 
@marmot Entrapment! :)
 
@CarLaTeX Yes. Now I know why @PauloCereda says @DavidCarlisle is mean. ;-)
 
@marmot actually he says:
Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Hmmh, do you have a full statistics on how often he made the statement without "not"?
 
@marmot I don't recall any at all.
 
9:07 PM
Jan 13 at 10:23, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
 
@marmot that was probably a typo, we could ask @PauloCereda
 
@DavidCarlisle your quote is from 2017
Jan 1 at 18:10, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are mean
@DavidCarlisle ^^^^ another typo?
 
@marmot webbed feet, you need to make allowances
 
@marmot Rest assured there is an equal number of such statements with and without the 'not'.
 
@DavidCarlisle He uses his wings....
@AlanMunn I see. A bit like Schrödinger's cat, then?
@AlanMunn |@DavidCarlisle> = \alpha |mean> + \beta |not mean>
 
9:25 PM
@UlrikeFischer Petra didn't like my tkz-tab upload:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle what was wrong?
 
@UlrikeFischer the package version number was hidden in one extra fike I hadn't updated, i don't know how Petra finds these things:-) (well I guess she greps for the old version string)
 
9:42 PM
@DavidCarlisle ;-). I'm very glad that at least luaotfload can be tagged automatically- it has version numbers everywhere.
 
@UlrikeFischer I don't think l3build could easily build the tkz packages they are distributed in a slightly strange way with a directory structure on ctan, not a flat ctan directpry.
 
@DavidCarlisle "strange way" seems to a quite recurrent package description lately ;-)
 
10:18 PM
@AlanMunn See the disclaimer here: tex.stackexchange.com/a/470945/4427
 
11:11 PM
@egreg @DavidCarlisle @JosephWright Do you know if it is possible to localize a \macro in some environment. Assume I am in a scope or a path of a tikzpicture and want to make \def\radius{3} known inside the whole tikzpicture but not globally, i.e. not outside the tikzpicture. Is this possible in TeX alone? Or specifically in tikz? (Of course I will be happy to ask an official question if you feel that's more appropriate.)
@UlrikeFischer ^^^^
 
@marmot do you mean set from inside an inner group? as otherwise you can just set it at the start of the picture?
 
@DavidCarlisle Yes. I can compute things, say, inside a path. The computation relies on quantities defined in the path, e.g. \path let \p1=($(A)-(B)$), \n1={atan2(\y1,\x2)} in \pgfextra{\xdef\myangle{\n1}};
I would like to replace \xdef by \DefineInsideCurrentTikzPicture.
 
yo'
@Werner Oh goodness only off by one bronze badge from a pure perfection!
 
@yo' Or 1000 bronze badges, taking into account that these generally only increase. ;-)
 
@marmot if you have a handle on the named things you can stack the definitions at the start of the environment, globally set them inside and then restore them at the end
 
11:28 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes, thanks, that's sort of what I had. But this requires me to distinguish tons of cases, whether or not the beast was defined outside and to do that separately for every new macro I am going to introduce. It would be IMHO much nicer if I could just smuggle things one level up, i.e. outside the local group but not outside the local environment, say.
 
@marmot The problem is that you don't know how many grouping level TikZ adds.
 
@marmot well if you are at the end of the group and just want one level that's easy especially as pgf has a macro for that
 
@egreg That is true, that's why I was also asking about the option to have it confined to the tikzpicture. (And would there be an option to just smuggle it out of one group?)
@DavidCarlisle Which is?
@DavidCarlisle Something with smuggle and an @ in it?
 
@marmot @egreg has a gold badge, he'll remember the name
@marmot yes
@marmot basically you want to do \xdef\tmp{\def\noexpand\myangle{\myangle}}\aftergroup\tmp` so outside the group \myangle gets defined
@marmot (with a few more aftergroup you can avoid requiring the global tmp)
 
@DavidCarlisle OK, I have never really seen a real life application of that. I could ask a question on the main site like "What does \tikz@after@path@smuggle do?"
@DavidCarlisle That sounds much easier than the smuggling thing.
 
11:35 PM
@marmot there's a lower level pgf @something@smuggle that just does a general tex group, without any tikz weirdness
@marmot try /usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/tex/generic/pgf/utilities/pgfutil-common.tex‌​: \pgfmath@smuggleone#1%
 
@DavidCarlisle Thanks!
@DavidCarlisle I guess I will ask an official question because I cannot really make this work and others may find this useful, too. Is now a good time?
 
@marmot well ask anyway if your real question is too deep tik zI may leave it fro others to answer
 

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