English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-02-09 (page 1 of 2)

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1:38 AM

I forget, what is the current consensus on list questions?

3

Q: What are some of the most influential or obscure phrases and literary constructions drawn from the Bible?

I was reading through some English L & U SE questions, and happened across one asking about the origin of the phrase "Through a Glass, Clearly / A Scanner Darkly / In a Mirror, Darkly / etc" -- apparently derived from 1 Corinthians 13:12 -- and came away with a profound realization of how inf...

phrases history

It is a bit of a gray area.

We have this:

62

Q: What words are commonly mispronounced by literate people who read them before they heard them?

Quite a few words are mispronounced by under-educated people, or people learning English as a second language. Some words are often mispronounced by quite educated people who read, and began reading high-level literature before they heard the vocabulary spoken. This can lead to a vocabulary diss...

pronunciation vocabulary literature list-request

And it seems useful.

But I wonder if the Bible one might just be subjective and not really useful.

2:02 AM

Yeah, I like the mispronunciation question, I've learned a few things from it. I think what makes it useful, even though it's a list, is that people can vote on the mispronunciations they have encountered in their own life, and thus the highest-voted answer is the most-mispronounced word.

I don't know if I can come up with a similar usefulness for the Bible question.

@Martha: For the moment I will wait and see if it starts accumulating close votes.

I was just looking at the mispronunciation question, and it's starting to accumulate duplicate answers. :/

@Kosmonaut: sounds like a plan.

Hm... a lot of duplicate questions?

Let's see.

4 hours later…

5:51 AM

Speaking of duplicates, this question is another duplicate.

0

Q: Why is physics pluralised? Why do some countries use 's' and others 'z' in some words?

My question came from looking at this one Why is "math" always pluralized in British English and singular in American English?. Why are words like Mathematics and Physics pluralised? On a side note i just noticied that i used an 's' instead of a 'z' in pluralised. Why do some countries use 's' an...

usage grammatical-number differences

In this case, the question is even a duplicate of two distinct questions. :-)

@Robusto: I changed my gravatar, and checked if SE would notice the change, and show the different icon/logo I selected.

I like your comment at that question. :-)

I should explain myself better: that is the reason I was checking english.SE; having noticed that question, I could not do anything. :-)

2 hours later…

7:47 AM

This is a rather subjective question; it's not clear what the OP is asking.

0

Q: "Vague" and "alien"

What do a vague and an alien have in common?

2 hours later…

9:36 AM

So, @kiamlaluno, what does your new gravatar say? I can read Greek just fine, it's just that I don't understand it. (^_^)

Google Translate says it means "when the moon meets the sun".

Like a big pizza pie?

That's amore!

:-)

Well; in some way there is something in common, even if I didn't think to that.

I am actually referring to a person I have met.

In "That's amore", the lyrics say "when the moon hits your eye". :-)

I do know that, my dear friend!

I understood only now the subtle joke. :-)

At least I was faster than who didn't understand the "extra points for an image showing the u and i keys" thing. ;-)

9:47 AM

Hahaha. I thought that was so obvious.

And nobody actually posted an image!

Pizza (; ), in the US sometimes called pizza pie, is an oven-baked, flat, disc-shaped bread typically topped with a tomato sauce, cheese (usually mozzarella), and various toppings, depending on the culture. Since the original pizza, several other types of pizzas have evolved. Originating in Neapolitan cuisine, the dish has become popular in many different parts of the world. An establishment that primarily makes and sells pizzas is called a "pizzeria", sometimes misspelled as "pizzaria". The phrases "pizza parlor", "pizza place", "pizza house" and "pizza shop" are used in the United St...

OMFG, the OP actually did!

Yes!

And see what he wrote too!

But a freehand circle is missing, so no bonus points! :P

Of course.

Would have he got more points, if he would have done a short "movie" and posted it on Youtube? :-)

I always thought that pizza pie was another word for pizza.

He would get an Oscar!

I always thought that pizza pie was redundant.

Oh… a pizza pie is a pizza.

The description of pizza confused me.

I hope a pizza is not redundant at all!

9:53 AM

Last year, we had a Neapolitan market in our city, with actual Italian cooks and salesmen and whatnot coming over from Napoli, and my wife and I had some (free!) Neapolitan pizza, and ever since my wife insists that we must move to Napoli.

From my experience, Americans use the terms pie and bread with different meanings.

I guess you don't have the same saying we have here in Italy.

It was for three days in a row, and we went there every single day, and queued up for that excellent pizza several times each day.

"Vedi Napoli e poi muori".

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vedi%20napoli

We had a market with German food, in Brescia.

9:56 AM

What kind of German food? It's easy to screw up...

For a night, I tasted all I could of the German food.

Uhmmm… I don't remember. :-)

Hahaha.

So much food?

I hope at least it tasted good.

I should ask to my American friend; she has more memory for those things.

I can only remember what is good, and what is bad. In that case, all was good.

Glad to hear that.

en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Italian_proverbs

Let me be more precise; all the shop owners were from Germany/Austria.

I have bought "canederli", which are also made in "Alto Adige".

Oh… the spek!

10:00 AM

Knödel and Speck.

Or Klöße.

Klöße und Knödel werden aus Teig von je nach Rezept ganz unterschiedlicher Zusammensetzung meist zu Kugeln geformt und in Salzwasser pochiert oder darüber gedämpft. Bei einigen Rezepten sind sie mit gerösteten Brotstücken, Früchten, Fleisch oder anderem gefüllt. Sie können als Hauptgericht, Beilage, Suppeneinlage oder auch süß als Dessert serviert werden und sind ein wichtiger Bestandteil besonders der ostdeutschen, süddeutschen, österreichischen und böhmischen Küche sowie der Küche Südtirols. Varianten Klöße, Knödel und Klößchen gibt es in vielen Varianten und Zubereitungen aus v...

Thanks to Wikiquote, today I learned that what my Calabrian friend keeps saying to me (in jest) doesn't mean "shut up!", it actually means "drown yourself!"

I have never heard "in jest"; I have heard "jestimando", which would mean "swearing".

In jest is English, kiamlaluno. What he keeps saying to me in Italian is "affoga te".

It could be written "iestimando", though. I am not good in writing dialects, nor mine nor the others. :-)

Though he pronounces it more like "affoca te".

Oh.

My friend would say "affugati", or "struozzati".

10:05 AM

What does the second one mean? Never seen that one.

My friend has both Calabrian and Greek roots, from his father side.

From her mother, she has Hebrew roots.

In Italian, it would be "strozzati".

How Mediterranian.

Strozza (Strozza in dialetto bergamasco) è un comune di 1.066 abitanti della provincia di Bergamo. Situato sul versante orientale della Valle Imagna, dista circa 15 chilometri dal capoluogo orobico. Storia I primi segni della presenza umana sul territorio risalgono all’epoca romana, come documentato dal ritrovamento di un acquedotto posto sulle pendici del monte Albenza, situato sulla destra orografica del paese. Tuttavia risalgono approssimativamente all’anno 1000 le origini del borgo, posto all’imbocco della valle. Qui i monti si avvicinano notevolmente creando una strozzatura, pe...

Actually, her grandmother's last name was "Mastroianni", which is the original Greek last name that has been modified in Italy.

Barbara Strozzi

Era la figlia adottiva (forse illegittima) del giudice, poeta e librettista Giulio Strozzi e d'Isabella Garzoni (soprannominata la Greghetta). Fu allieva del padre, di Marcantonio Cesti e del celebre Francesco Cavalli. Tra il 1635 e il 1636 cantò dinanzi a svariati letterati veneziani le Bizzarrie poetiche, due volumi di canzoni composte da Nicolò Fontei. Nel 1637 il padre adottivo fondò l'Accademia degli Unisoni, dove la Strozzi entrò come membro e nella quale recitava e cantava i propri lavori; ella metteva in musica principalmente i testi scritti dal genitore. Quando quest'ultimo morì,...

It's good nobody has "Strozzati" as family name. :-)

"Strozzati" means choke; "strozzare means to strangle.

If you say "io ti strozzo", you mean something else than "choke!".

10:12 AM

There is the family name von Strangle in English, though.

List of characters in The Fairly OddParents

This is a list of characters in the Nickelodeon animated series The Fairly OddParents. Main characters Timmy Turner *First appeared = "The Fairly Oddparents! (Pilot)" *Creator = Butch Hartman *Voice = Tara Strong, Alec Baldwin (Older Timmy), Mary Kay Bergman (Oh Yeah! Cartoons), Drake Bell (Older Timmy in a upcoming live-action Fairly Oddparents movie) *Family = Mr. Turner (father), Mrs. Turner (mother), Vlad (maternal grandfather), Gladys (maternal grandmother),Pappy (paternalgrandfather), Gertrude (paternal great-aunt) Timmy Turner is an American 10-year-old from a middle class fam...

I didn't know that Goethe was referring to the beauty of Naples. We normally use it literally. :-)

"Jorgen Von Strangle (voiced by Daran Norris with a Schwarzenegger accent), the "toughest fairy in the Universe", is a high-ranking official in Fairy World. He uses an over-sized wand, is the tallest fairy, and is the only fairy in the series who does not levitate. Unlike other fairies who "poof" from place to place, Jorgen appears and disappears in the form of an atomic explosion and has a jet pack instead of wings"

I saw the cartoon, but I didn't know its title.

1

Q: How would you stress in typing the difference between "1 and "l"?

As a former chemical engineer I frequently was goofed by reading typed paper articles with units like l/sec. Should "l" be understood as one or liter? How would you pass a message differentiating "1" from "l" in written paper? For example, you send your article to a publisher or a conference O...

writing formality typography typesetting

I guess it's off-topic.

10:45 AM

0

Q: Should I capitalize a starting sentence after addressing comma (in "Hello,")?

Should I open the starting sentence after comma in adressing "Hi," ("Hello,") with capital letter? Hi, Xxxl, Dear Xxx L, let me ... vs. Dear Xxx L, Let me ... In Russian it is not though it is more than frequently being goofed. Related question: Comma place: “He...

comma letter-writing

I thought it was a person begin addressed in "dear Xyz", not the comma. ;-)

Another dupe:

0

Q: Archivable or archiveable or ...?

I have an entity and I would like to describe it as be able to be archived. Is it archivable (which seems ok for me but no wiktionary.org results) or how should I call it? Thank you!

Yep. I answered, but I voted to close it (after I saw your comment).

Should I say "your comment" even if it's the system that creates it? :-)

Well, it's signed by me.

And I have edited it to include the second question.

So it's mine now.

:-)

I would argue it was yours also before, as it was created by an action you did. :-)

11:02 AM

I sometimes create those comments by hand, before voting to close.

I did that too, before to notice that when I vote to close a duplicated question, the comment is automatically created.

It's also automatically deleted once the question is closed. That's why I sometimes create it by hand, so it won't get deleted unless I choose to delete it manually.

It seems that somebody doesn't understand the difference between American English, and British English. It's good it was me to use a "substandard language". :-)

Apart that, it's not true that all the -able adjectives remove the -e from the original word.

See my comment there.

I didn't know it was deleted.

He already commented back.

Are there words ending in able that are not built from "[verb] + [able]"?

11:12 AM

There's fashionable and seasonable. I don't think they were derived from "to fashion" and "to season".))

Also, reasonable.

Fashionable is reported as example of adjectives created with -able, in the NOAD.

Yes, but not from a verb.

It's my bad; I was thinking to adjectives created adding the prefix -able to another word.

Cable is one of those words that ends in able, but that are not adjectives.

Ah, now I understand.

Well, table.

I said "[verb] + [able]", but that is not correct.

Do you know a site where you can look at words ending with specific letters?

11:21 AM

I have a few dictionaries (as in, printed books) that allow you to do that.

Not aware of a site, but I guess we could google it.

morewords.com/ends-with/able

Allwords.com

findtheword.info

Lots of ads and popups, though.

I found another word: constable.

From Latin comes stabuli.

Fable.

11:26 AM

6

Q: What's the difference between a fable and a parable?

Does either imply a lesson, or a fantastical setting?

word-choice nouns

My point was that, if you count all the words ending in -able, you get also words that aren't adjectives.

And parable!

3

Q: Difference between "allegory", "fable" and "parable"

My concept of the three is: Allegory: A story in which ideas are symbolized as people. Parable: A short story designed to teach a moral or religious lesson. Fable: A short story in which animals or objects speaks a story, to teach a moral or religious lesson. If these concepts of mine are cor...

I guess one of the questions is duplicate of the other?

Nah, not really.

The second is more broad.

But the first is older.

The second also asks about something different.

Yes.

11:30 AM

You can see that even my "related question" comment didn't get a single upvote. It's not that related, I guess. ))

The titles of the questions are similar.

That's for sure.

I didn't up voted it as I was "MIA". :-)

Yeah, you should have stayed. You have missed out on a lot of fun!

The questions seem related, to me; it's probable that who answers to one gives also information useful to the other one.

Don't tell me!

You know, I didn't have Voodoo toys anymore. ;-)

I mean dolls.

11:35 AM

Yeah, them are not toys. :P

Shouldn't be playing with them carelessly.

Hey! For me they were toys. :-)

It seems it worked, if he left. ;-)

That was entirely @Kosmonaut's fault.)))

He just got an excuse. ;-)

Kind of. I suppose. I mean, it's not like Kosmonaut hasn't heavily edited his answer in response to the criticism.

He could not say "I leave because I have a strong back-ache, like if somebody is sticking needles in my back".

Did he? :-)

11:40 AM

Nope, he didn't mention military jets, either.

McDonnell F-101 Voodoo

{| |} The McDonnell F-101 Voodoo was a supersonic military fighter flown by the USAF and the RCAF. Initially designed by McDonnell Aircraft as a long-range bomber escort (known as a penetration fighter) for the Strategic Air Command (SAC), the Voodoo was instead developed as a nuclear armed fighter bomber for the Tactical Air Command (TAC), and as a photo reconnaissance aircraft based on the same airframe. Extensively modified versions were produced as an all-weather interceptor aircraft, serving with the Air Defense Command, later renamed the Aerospace Defense Command (ADC), the Air Nati...

I was going to say "of course, he is British", but then I understood I can say from where he comes from.

He could be also Japanese.

2 hours later…

1:28 PM

Where'd the party go?

@kiamlaluno: Your new avatar is going to get confused with @Kosmonaut's, I fear. Especially since you're using an upper-case K, which is not how you render your nick. Granted, his center is empty, but my mind would work toward interpreting your image as his.

Ze Parti iz hier!

My first thought was actually that kiamlaluno stole Kosmonaut's tag line.

And translated it into Greek to cover the tracks.

Actually, my gravatar always used a capital K, as my nick was KiamLaLuno.

Kosmonaut's tag line would be κυκλικό συλλογισμό γίνεται επειδή το κυκλικό συλλογισμό, in Greek.

1:49 PM

I'm disappointed none of you gave me an "attaboy" for my egregious pun in the orient/orientation question.

Well, @Kosmonaut did, but I expected more from @RegDwight and @kiamlaluno.

I would have settled for a groan. Really I would ...

I just busted @RegDwight's chops in the "look at here" question.

What about a little quid pro quo?

I... I just couldn't think of anything remotely funny. I didn't want to destroy the magic.

But I am thinking of a new gravatar for myself.

But the owl is so Greek.

user image

2

Anyone who works that hard for his humor needs a star.

Thank you, thank you...

I have actually seen that owl in person.

I don't remember if I took that particular picture or if it was my wife.

1:55 PM

doko de?

No, bubo bubo.

Seriously though, at the local zoo.

He was so cute, wearing those fluffy pants and all.

Is that a Great Snowy Owl?

Now my gravatar looks too much like kiamlaluno's

And his even has a "K" in it which is what my name also starts with.

Feh

He's totally cramping my style.

Ah, I'm mixing things up. We payed a visit to a bubo bubo, too, but this one is a bubo scandiacus.

Well, in regard to circular avatars, I offer today's poem:

slate.com/id/3386

2:02 PM

The Snowy Owl (Bubo scandiacus) is a large owl of the typical owl family Strigidae. The Snowy Owl was first classified in 1758 by Carolus Linnaeus, the Swedish naturalist who developed binomial nomenclature to classify and organize plants and animals. The bird is also known in North America as the Arctic Owl, Great White Owl or Harfang. Until recently, it was regarded as the sole member of a distinct genus, as Nyctea scandiaca, but mtDNA cytochrome b sequence data (Olsen et al. 2002) shows that it is very closely related to the horned owls in the genus Bubo. The Snowy Owl is the official ...

@RegDwight: You should call your new contraption "Stop the wheel I want to get off."

@RegDwight: "I don't remember if I took that particular picture or if it was my wife" ... so you might be married to an owl? Or you don't remember if you might be? I'd start taking more ginko biloba if I were you.

Re: poem, somehow it reminds me of this:

I can't listen to the dialogue until I put on my headphones, which I can't do because people are trying to talk to me. Moment mal ...

@Robusto: Actually, your comment on my "look at here" answer reminds me of Ex-User's comment on my "more clearer" answer:

4

A: "More clear" vs "Clearer"

Both are grammatically correct. ("More clearer", however, would be wrong.)

2:20 PM

Well, I will note that in the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States, there occurs the phrase: "... in order to create a more perfect union ..."

I usually stop when things are perfect, myself.

I think things that surpass perfection are essentially flawed.

1

Q: "More perfect" versus "less imperfect"

"More perfect" is presumably bad English (Preamble to the US Constitution notwithstanding), since something is either perfect (and thus can't be improved) or not. "Less imperfect", however, seems to make sense. It means "having fewer flaws" or "closer to perfection". The paradox: "more per...

differences comparative

That's what I was going to post.

What I'm talking about is this: Say you feel that the perfect temperature for relaxing is 19 degrees Celsius. Right now you're at 10. Movement toward 19 represents a move toward perfection; but from the viewpoint of someone who has only experienced 10 degrees and hated it, the impulse would be that more degrees = better. So they might willingly overshoot the mark and get all the way to, say, 40C before realizing they had failed.

It's the same principle with learning how to drink in college. If you survive your first year, you know that if a few drinks make you feel good, a whole lot of drinks don't necessarily make you feel great. At least for long.

That's why serious drinkers know where the point of perfection is, how to hit it, and how to maintain it.

But who is to say that is "surpassing" perfection?

The "surpassing perfection" line I meant to be funny.

My latest response was directed toward @RegDwight's admission into evidence of the question above.

2:28 PM

I get that.

And, in one sense, I'm just talking shit between work interruptions here. Gawd, don't people realize what's important?

As a serious drinker, I must say that I never use "more perfect" myself. But I wouldn't stop Obama or Washington from using it, just as I wouldn't stop them from becoming as more drunk as they choose.

What the what is this?

0

Q: If you don’t have enemies, you don’t have character.

If you don’t have enemies, you don’t have character contains inside the link to You can’t Sh!t on the Shat! (SeriouslyOMG) with a video that on trying to play shows: The video you have requested is not available for your geographic region Which know-hows in English are forbidden to be ...

idioms expressions slang

Is this a request for transcribing a video?

Whaaaaaaaa?

I have no idea what the OP means in his last sentence.

And is that William Shatner?

2:34 PM

Yes

I can't believe the guy turns 80 next month

user image

So okay, "you can't shit on the Shat" is talking about Mr Shatner. But I'm still not sure how the question can be reworded to fit on this site.

I watched an episode of The Larry Sanders Show last night with Alec Baldwin from the mid-'90s. Hard to believe he was ever that young.

Have you seen Beetlejuice recently?

Not recently. But I take your point.

It was mind blowing to see him in that movie.

2:40 PM

Yeah. What a fun movie that is.

The best thing Michael Keaton ever did, with the possible exception of The Paper

Well, Mr. Mom is probably his best work.

hahaha

To paraphrase Wilde, there are two ways of not liking Michael Keaton: the first is simply not to like him, and the other is to like Mr. Mom.

Haha

At first I thought you were referring to Multiplicity... Turns out that's a different movie.

Okay, so now the question is officially off-topic.

"What is it in [the video] and why is it 'localized' to only some geographic regions?"

Both of those questions fall outside the purview of E&U.SE

2:53 PM

Hm. Kosmonaut is so blue now.

It couldn't be helped.

(I wonder why my gravatar is not updated.)

I'm still seeing the old icon here in chat.

Logging out...

Logging in, now it's blue.

@kiamlaluno: I thought Italy was strictly catholic?

Your gravatar now looks like Turkish New Zealand or something.

Italy could be strictly catholic, but not so are its inhabitants. :-)

@kiamlaluno: probably a caching issue.

2:59 PM

Does that mean that if I purge the cache, all inhabitants will become non catholic?

@Kosmonaut: Now your gravatar looks like a LifeSaver.

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