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12:07 AM
@nitsua60 And yet it's only three days until Smash.
 
hat-tastic
 
12:27 AM
All I wanna do is make maps, but I've spent all my art time cleaning google maps controls out of my reference images.
 
1:22 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, messaging number in answer, pattern-matching email in answer (346): How can a spell caster increase the probability that they can cast a spell from a scroll that is a higher level than they can cast? by palu on rpg.SE
 
1:44 AM
Oh my. The last time we had hats I had only been active for like a week and I was pretty darned confused.
 
Mm
I can imagine it being confusing
I think the first time I saw hatmass I got I to it pretty quick
Can't hardly remember if it actually went that way though
 
@Glazius Oh man I am so impatient for Smash. Thursday is going to be intolerable.
 
I beat the final boss of Dead Cells for the first time last night!
(Apropos of absolutely nothing, I've just been wanting to say it, and I don't know anyone else who plays it.)
 
2:01 AM
@Miniman extremely hard I take it?
 
@trogdor Well, sort of. Beating the final boss of a game on my 4th try really doesn't seem that bad.
Problem is, it's a roguelike, so my 4th try at the final boss was my 41st run of the game.
Even that sounds worse than it is, though. A full run takes about an hour (if you're super slow and cautious like me), so it's only 25 hours total.
 
2:21 AM
That's relatively short
For some games anyway
 
Yeah, definitely. It just feels like I've been trying to beat him for most of my adult life.
 
Lol
 
@Miniman The final final boss, or the first final boss?
 
More or less how beating the Radiant felt
 
@Glazius ...do you know something I don't?
@trogdor Wow. Here I am enjoying my victory, and you casually remind me of all the HK stuff I still haven't done. That's a low blow.
 
2:32 AM
Lol
Sorry
You didn't beat her? I thought you had
 
Nah, her, NKG, the Path of Pain, and the Trial of Fools are all on my to-do list.
 
Mm
 
She's actually the one of those I've spent the least time on - I'd like to have everything finished and then beat the game.
Did you ever do any of the others on that list, btw?
 
Still working on the trail of fools
And by that I mean taking a break from it but that is my next goal when I get back to it
and for grim I'm gonna need to start a new save,....
I've gotten so close, I think
But I was also doing DLC stuff
Which I won't be able to tell you about because,.. you want to do that yourself
XD
 
Yeah, I'm excited.
 
Ben
2:45 AM
Hola
 
Hello sir
 
Ben
How's everything in your neck of the woods
Our heatwave appears to be on the way out
Or at least we're just getting a reprieve. It's dropped below 35 for the first time in a week
 
hey there @JustynCampbell, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@Ben pretty decent, not currently looking down the barrel of a storm
 
Ben
Hola
 
2:49 AM
Could change fast though
 
Ben
@trogdor Wanna swap? Lol
 
@Miniman Just asking if you're on New Game+ yet or not.
 
@Glazius Ah, ok. That was my first time beating the boss, so I'm now on hard difficulty. (New Game+ seems kinda misleading, so I'll stick to the terminology the game uses)
I also finally got a secret achievement that was super common - it had really been bugging me seeing it sitting among all the stuff I've already done. Turns out it's for doing something really, really stupid, so now I feel bad about having unlocked it.
 
Ben
@Miniman I used to hate getting an achievement for a game that I regretted playing. Lol
 
@Miniman Cool, cool. Congratulations.
Roguelikes have gotten really good at providing satisfying points to stop playing without necessarily running out of game.
 
3:03 AM
@Glazius Thanks!
 
Ben
3:47 AM
I have wanted to play Dead Cells... Is it any good?
 
It looks fun
 
Ben
It does :D I really liked the ad for it
 
I would have picked it up, but I'm taking a little break from high action games
It's on my list though
 
Ben
My friend recently got BotW, so now I'm playing that again haha
I came up with a plan - what I'm going to do first, what I need in order to get that, stop by Ganon's Castle for some high-level gear... Ok let's do th-- oh horsey!
(2 hours later) ok, so now I have 30 wood, I can go buy that house... Then I can go get those boots I needed
New PB though: I managed to raid Ganon's Castle with only 4 hearts and the base Hylian Gear. Lol
 
@kviiri yea. I would just set it as a martial weapon
 
Ben
4:02 AM
Including killing the Stalnox guarding the Hylian Shield.
 
@Ben I still need to finish. I was trying to get the upgraded master sword
 
@Ben Yes! It's great! There's an Easter egg that I wouldn't want to spoil for anyone, but I haven't laughed at a videogame that much in years.
 
Ben
@goodguy5 I honestly have not actually finished it. Got everything, was going to go fight Ganon, but wanted to get all the upgrades and stuff, then I got distracted by other stuff and eventually stopped playing lol
@Miniman Sold! lol
@goodguy5 Also... Upgraded Master Sword..?
 
@Ben It's also a really fun game, etc, etc.
Honestly, 100% the most I've ever enjoyed a roguelike.
 
@goodguy5 Oh, have you got the fifth Divine Beast?
 
4:11 AM
Like, I like Enter the Gungeon, but when I lose a run, I get super frustrated and stop playing it for a while. With Dead Cells, I can't wait to start the next run.
 
@Ben I think it's DLC
@Glazius no?
 
Ben
Ohhh
 
I upgraded all of my gear slots.
 
@goodguy5 Yeah, different DLC.
 
@Glazius I probably have it somewhere then. Is that where you get the mastercycle?
 
Ben
4:13 AM
Right, yeah I don't have any of those. I don't think the game needs more stuff, and the Bike just breaks the immersion for me lol. So I didn't get any of the DLCs.
I was thinking of maybe gettimg master mode... But that's it
 
@Miniman yeah gungeon is a little frustrating sometimes
 
@goodguy5 Yes, the fifth Divine Beast. What did you think you were inside?
 
I still like it a lot but it's a loooong game
 
Ben
@Miniman I lament doing this... but would that feeling be similar to Dark Souls?
Haha
 
@Ben I mean, half the reason I got the dlc was to support the game.
@Glazius I haven't done it yet haha.
 
Ben
4:14 AM
@goodguy5 Fair :)
 
And wait a minute, The BIKE breaks immersion, but not the giant mechs?
why is the bike the last straw?
 
Ben
@goodguy5 It's the fact that it's a motorbike. Lol. If it was a mechanical horse, that'd be different
 
@goodguy5 First law of archaeology. As something gets larger, it becomes more plausible.
 
Ben
@Glazius is that for real? Cos I'd buy that
 
@Ben Well, first law of fictional archaeology.
 
Ben
4:20 AM
Like, Giant mechanical beasts - there's no "modern" technology in any of that . Mystery and magic. Whereas a motorbike, well that's something that exists in reality. Yeah you might say it "works" the same way - with mystery and magic - but just the idea of the motorbike brings it a step away from the original aesthetic of the game.
IMHO
 
Tiny stone music box that plays Barbie Dreams? Obvious forgery. Fog-shrouded stone complex whose ancient gears, spun by mountain rivers, play Barbie Dreams a couple octaves lower? WHO IS NIKKI MINAJ REALLY AND WHAT DOES SHE KNOW?!
 
Ben
@Glazius We had one game of Pathfinder - the underlying theme is ancient Greece, so all the NPCs have Greek-style names.
 
@Ben well, they tried a mechanical horse, but they kept running out of mechanical apples
 
@Ben Not really - Dark Souls is a very different experience to either of those, at least for me.
 
anyway, bed time
 
Ben
4:22 AM
In the School of Necromancy were a bunch of outsiders, all whom were adapted famous singers, like "Arianus Grandius"
@Miniman Ok :). I'm honestly glad that's how it is. All these "Souls-likes" are frustrating me.
"Bandicoot Souls" was the only forgivable one lol
@Miniman just watched a Let's play. I think I might buy it this week, or maybe next :)
 
@Ben Frustrating you because you find them frustrating, or frustrating because you're sick of people copying FromSoft?
 
Ben
@Miniman Frustrating because the "Souls-like" comparison is just a label for "difficult and unforgiving".
Which, is unfair on Dark Souls
Well, the SoulsBorne series.
 
4:43 AM
I always thought Souls like was supposed to encompass more than just difficulty
Like, Hollow Knight can be compared to Souls games due to difficulty, but the only other thing it really has in common is the way like is presented and the healing mechanic
It's up to a certain amount of individual taste to say if that makes it worth calling like Souls games
 
Ben
Yes, that's what the comparison was intended to be, but it's been diluted due to anything displaying any level of difficulty beyond a difficulty selection, and a manual save mechanic, it's "Souls-like".
While yes, most games that have that label should be taken with a grain of salt, it's like the Rick and Morty Szechuan Sauce fiasco. The whole thing has been blown way out of comparison by anyone that wants to be known for weighing in on what "Souls-like" is supposed to mean
 
I agree with you
I personally wish people weren't judging games that particular way
 
Ben
Lol. Sorry if that came out as aggressive. #Triggerd haha
 
Understanding the nature of Dark Souls is the Dark Souls of Dark Souls.
 
Lol
Please no
 
Ben
4:52 AM
@Glazius Dark Souls Dark Souls, Bloodborne, Soulsborne, Dark Souls.
 
No, seriously, Dark Souls is actually extremely forgiving. Super Mario gives you, what, three guys? You can mash your face into the same misadventure dozens of times in Dark Souls and never have to start over.
You don't even have to farm up healing herbs the way you did in Demon's Souls, you've got your Sunny D.
 
@trogdor HK is much more Soulslike than most games with the label, having as it does limited life and life recovery, no permadeath, and a single currency which is dropped on death and lost forever if you fail to reach the drop point.
 
Ben
@Glazius I suppose my point is exactly that - comparing the difficulty of the games, when the entire play mechanic is completely different.
@Miniman Yes.
On a separate note... I have "Cursed" items in my game... but I don't want to call them "Cursed". They can't be "uncursed", nor do they have any real negative effects - the only reason I use that label is because they contribute to the overall Corruption counter.
 
@Miniman that's a fair point
I did want to use a complicated example
 
Ben
And they can still be used if the Corruption mechanic isn't in play.
Should I give them a label to represent that? "Corrupted Items"? I don't really want to give them a label that disincentivises players to use them
 
5:04 AM
How's "wicked" strike you?
 
Ben
Potentially...
 
I mean, what level of non-disincentive are you looking for here? Is Sir Justice going to raise one of these things triumphantly to the sun and exult in its glory?
 
Ben
I mean, I could just call them "Artefacts", they are items found on the corpses of demons and ghouls they just fought, so their origins are known.
 
Or do you just want Shanksworth to tuck one away in a pocket for later use and not particularly worry about it?
 
Ben
I want them to be used. Not "weigh up" the benefits (once per day, you can summon d4 skeletons to fight for you) when they pick up a "Cursed Crown"
Because I know that some players will do that.
 
5:12 AM
"Wicked" has been around for so long it's lost most of its teeth. It's evil, but it's, like, grade-school pageant evil.
You're probably never going to get Sir Justice to don the Wicked Crown, but nobody who would want to don a Wicked Crown is going to really think twice about doing it, I think.
 
Ben
That's a fair point
I'll take that on board :)
 
5:40 AM
Do we have an "Ask a Moderator" channel on RPG? I just found a Sage Advice ruling that makes two questions that got merged not duplicates.
 
Ben
@DuncanXSimpson Meta
 
5e question: What would be the consequence of a feature that functions as a spell cast with a 10th level slot?
 
Ben
@MikeQ I'm assuming this is a class feature..?
 
Yeah, something along the lines of "This feature functions as so-and-so spell, with level equal to half your level"
At 20th level, that means it's a 10th level spell
 
Ben
And when do you get said feature?
@DuncanXSimpson that is, over on the rpg meta stack rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions
 
5:47 AM
3rd level, but it's just a radius of light. So it has potential interactions with darkness.
 
Ben
Oh right. Well, if anything that just replaces Darkvision, no?
 
I re-worded it: "you emit bright light in a 10 ft radius, and dim light for an additional 10 ft. The light can be negated by a Darkness spell of a level greater than half your barbarian level."
 
Ben
The downside obviously is that while you can see enemies in your radius, they can see you too, as well as those outside of that radius
 
I mean... it's a barbarian
But yes I suppose making it optional would help
 
Ben
Hmm... Mechanically though, I don't know. Like, you'd have to announce that you're casting Darkness at level 4, for example.
That's a nit-pick, but otherwise I'd say it's sound
 
5:59 AM
@Ben I thought I responded, but it didn't send. I went over there and asked. Thanks!
 
Ben
@DuncanXSimpson All good :D just thought I should clarify haha.
 
0
Q: Non-duplicate questions, with opposite correct answers, merged

Duncan X SimpsonSee this meta question, where two questions covering similar topics got merged. However, the merge was in error, as the Permanent vs Until Dispelled question does not apply to the Teleportation Circle question, since the duration of Teleportation Circle is not Permanent. Is it possible to un-mer...

 
Ben
It sounded like I was suggesting that was a meta thing, not suggesting the meta page haha
 
@TheOracle That's the one
@Ben Yeah, but having used SE for a few years I knew what you meant :)
What exactly is @TheOracle?
 
I was going to say "look at its profile" but there isn't a humanizing attempt at an introduction to a bot that posts the latest meta questions.
This is a rank betrayal of my expectations, -10/10 would not subscribe.
 
Ben
6:34 AM
@DuncanXSimpson It's a bot that just posts any new meta posts in the main chat. There used to be one for the main site too, but that was removed. Now we just use the Smoke Detector bot which flags bd posts (mainly advertising posts, but also ones containing swearing, etc).
 
Ben
6:46 AM
Well, technically we do still have the "Oracle" for the main site, but that was moved to an overlay. (Popup appears in the top left)
 
7:04 AM
@Ben What would you like to see this corruption thing play out like?
 
Ben
@kviiri Well, I'm working on writing up a concept for it now.
The idea is sort of like in Dark Heresy. As you become more and more corrupt, it starts to change your PC. eventually, it changes your stats, gives you abilities, etc.
With an additional bonus at the end for the most corrupt player character.
Don't pay too much attention to the effects though, I'm already thinking of different ones, and altering the order of them, and the Tier requisites will probably change too. I'm just getting the core of it all down on paper rn
So with the items that can contribute to the corruption, while the name "corruption" might sound bad, the whole system has a different spin. It's meant to alter gameplay, not deficit.
 
7:22 AM
@Ben For the better, or for worse?
Ah, it's shown in the homebrewery
I'll take a look at it shortly
Trying to get stuff done :)
 
Ben
@kviiri Dang responsibilities gettin' in the way of stuff I actually wanna do [mumble grumble] :P
 
So regarding corruption mechanics, I think they're quite easy to get right in Apocalypse World or Fate where it's a normal part of the play to invoke a characters' weaknesses
It's a quite a lot trickier in DnD where people usually try to minimize their characters' weaknesses or their impact
 
Ben
7:38 AM
Yeah, I suppose I'm not trying to create any "weakness", per se... just sort of alter a player's abilities and approaches to the way the game is played.
I need a "once per day" thing for a "decay" related ability. I have a healing one, and a "ask the gm for information" one, so I don't want to repeat myself.
 
Do the players get to choose what corruptions they get?
 
Ben
@kviiri ...no. Not with the way I've written it.
So yes, it can have a negative impact on the primary abilities of a player
However, I intend to create items that are intended for each class. Like, a 2-handed weapon for the Fighter or barb that causes Bloodlust, for example.
I am thinking I might need to switch some of the abilities each corruption affects though
maybe
 
 
1 hour later…
9:17 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching product name in body, pattern-matching website in body, potentially bad keyword in body (394): Mental stress and also an age-related lower in physical by yguy yiuok on rpg.SE
 
 
5 hours later…
2:03 PM
Question for chat: is there any spell that lists in their duration "permanent"? Follow up: is there any that say "the duration becomes permanent"?
 
2:26 PM
@Rubiksmoose True Polymorph says that in the original PHB. A number of the higher level spells with structures have that word. 5th level teleportation circle has it. You can create a permanent teleportation circle by casting this spell in the same location every day for one year
the fortress and the temple in xanathar's also have that term
 
@KorvinStarmast but do they have it in the "duration" area of the spell descrption?
 
Yeah I don't know of any that do.
 
And that's beause you have to cast it every day for a year. They did not originally want any "permanency" spells in this edition.
The old permanancy spell lost its charm a while back, I think.
 
Yeah I was happy with that decision.
 
2:28 PM
Even the "until dispelled" tends to be in the text
 
Fwiw this is musing with regards to this meta
Which is pretty complicated in a lot of ways.
I'm not entirely certain I agree with the original decision to merge, but I haven't dedicated a lot of time thinking about it (I just noticed it yesterday evening)
 
I disagree that the spell needs "permanent" in the duration block. And I made a comment to that effect.
 
@KorvinStarmast Yeah I do as well.
 
@Rubiksmoose Here's a list question about that.
 
The merge was not necessary, IMO.
 
2:34 PM
@NautArch I forgot about that one! Good thinking!
@NautArch Is that up to date with the new material?
 
@Rubiksmoose I have no idea :(
omygod, that's my answer
goshdarnit
 
Can anybody find me where in the book it explains this: is "ability check" and "saving throw" terms that apply to the d20 roll only? Or do they refer to the entire check roll+answer?
@NautArch hahaha yeah it is.
 
@Rubiksmoose and this is why list questions should be closed :/.
 
Maybe not worth updating because it is closed? I don't think it would come up in search would it?
 
@Rubiksmoose came up on google search
 
2:43 PM
@NautArch I disagree though on that count. I was actually thinking the exact opposite in this case that it was an example of a helpful good list question.
Though the question itself is not good but not because of the list aspect.
 
@Rubiksmoose hahaha, well, it's worth me looking at Xanathar's. I think that's the only new resource with spells that's come out?
 
@NautArch I think?
 
@Rubiksmoose @KorvinStarmast I lightly edited that meta about TC-merger; your comments may now actually be the seeds of answers, should you wish to post them.
 
@Rubiksmoose looks like i was only missing Mighty Fortress
 
@nitsua60 Thanks!
@NautArch Is there anywhere in the book that describes how to do a saving throw? Aka d20+relevant modifier? It really seems like there should be but I cannot for the life of me find it.
 
2:59 PM
I'm finally picking back up Lost In Space (the new one) and really enjoying it.
Parker Posey is amazing.
 
^^
 
and not just because i've had a semi-crush on her since Dazed and Confused.
but she's just an amazing actor
 
@NautArch perfect thanks. I was even in that section before.
 
@nitsua60 Her character acting is incredible
anyone here have the Waterdeep:Dragon Heist module?
 
3:37 PM
@NautArch yes, i do.
The apprentice mage is just like the one in the volo's guide, I will need to find the spot where thespell book is mentioned.
 
@KorvinStarmast awesome - if you could add the stat block confirming that it has/doesn't have a spellbook, that'd be the bees knees.
 
@NautArch Sorta.
 
The stat block doesnt, do you have an answer I can append to?
 
@KorvinStarmast This one
oh, you found it :)
 
@NautArch You want me to add the block to the question?
 
3:42 PM
@KorvinStarmast I think it would be good...but maybe it's an answer? I dunno now.
 
I need to read up on the details in the adventure, am looking into it now.
IMO, a frame challenge using the MM guidance on spell casters nps might be the best answer. not surethough
 
@KorvinStarmast I had a fun time running it and was interested to see them trying a novel structure for an adventure. I'm not sure where I come down on it in the end, though. Maybe kinda-neutral. (Partially because I couldn't care less about Waterdeep, so having a book that's half Waterdeep setting-guide is half-uninteresting for me.)
 
@nitsua60 Did you run it with the school kids, or as play test?
 
Playtest with adults. One of my guys printed an accurate, multifloor model of Trollskull Manor--it really made the idea of "home base" come alive.
 
Now that's cool!
 
3:47 PM
@KorvinStarmast i'm not sure it's a frame challenge. Assuming that that the monster has something that the block doesn't say it has seems disingenous.
 
@NautArch It's explicit inthe adventure what spells are in the book. It is the stat block spells, plus a few others. no reason the NPC does not mix and match, Per the MM
 
@KorvinStarmast Ah - that's what I was wondering. If the adventure states the Apprentice has a book, then it has a book :) I was just looking at the MM entry that does not have a book, just spells prepared.
@KorvinStarmast I still don't see where it has a spellbook.
 
My understanding is the book isnt in the statblock, it's in accompanying text describing the possessions of the apprentice
 
(As we can see from the discussion above, aspiring apprentices hide their spellbooks well.)
 
@SirCinnamon That's what I'm trying to confirm.
 
4:02 PM
Linking to the previous question where I made my first "one focus == one class" answer caused it to attract downvotes. XD
 
If it's there, it should be stated because the stat blocks for apprentices normally don't.
@Xirema I have not downvoted you (on that one) :D
 
@NautArch I mean, in hindsight, I'm thinking about maybe deleting it, since my new answer to the new question is just better written and more thorough. Or at the very least it supports its central thesis a lot better.
 
@KorvinStarmast The question isn't about swapping spells, it's about swapping them from a spellbook, which means a book exists that can be found, taken, and possibly copied.
 
@NautArch Yes! Exactly. And there is a book that can be found, taken, and copied in the adventure.
Did you see my answer?
 
@KorvinStarmast Yes, but you didn't put a spoiler quote confirming that.
 
4:07 PM
@Xirema On your new answer I think you might want to soften your "However, the Multiclassing rules don't agree" title given what you write in the section.
 
@KorvinStarmast I am failing...where?
 
The lock is right above the bold text "Simple Solution" in spoilers
@NautArch is the spolier block not working?
I am seeing it
 
@KorvinStarmast I just see three spells. I don't see a quote stating the NPC has a spellbook.
 
Why do I need a quote? I cited the page that it's on. ?????
 
I think I'm missing something, or just not understanding.
Your page citing is for what you need to run the adventure. is there another page citing around this NPC I'm skipping?
or are you saying that this NPC is actually a creature built as a PC and not just a monster stat block?
 
4:14 PM
The Stat block for the apprentice is in the appendix, as state in the question. I have already stated that it is identical to Volo's.
 
Dragon heist just says "This NPC carries a spellbook with xyz spells"
(i assume)
 
@KorvinStarmast And that Volo stat block doesn't say it has a spellbook.
 
and the question asker already clearly knows that
 
@SirCinnamon but no one has yet to actually confirm that
 
@NautArch Korvin has already pointed out which spells are listed as being in the book
 
4:16 PM
@NautArch That's irrelevant. The adventure says it on page 29. I have added the page references from volos and adventure, so thanks
 
and the question isn't "Does he carry this spellbook" but how the spellbook interacts with his prepared spells
 
@KorvinStarmast that's the quote i was hoping was there! Thank you.
The assumption was he had one, but there was no evidence until now
 
It goes like this. You have an NPC encounter. It has the stat block and treasure. the treasure is a spell book with these spells. As it happens, these spells are all usable by the NPC, and so on
@NautArch Ok, so adding that to spoilers was clearer?
 
@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I've done that.
 
@NautArch If clearer, then it was all worth it.
 
4:20 PM
@KorvinStarmast definitely clearer for me. It closed the loop on whether or not there actually was a spellbook.
 
@KorvinStarmast See the latest edit. Sage Advice seems to agree with the duration requirement
 
@KorvinStarmast have an upboat.
 
@DuncanXSimpson Duncan Wil have a look.
@NautArch OK, improvement is a team effort. thanks, amigo
 
@KorvinStarmast I may be the only one who wanted/needed it. But thank you :)
 
There's bound to be at least one other who did, but didn't want to speak up ... you helped them. :)
 
4:22 PM
Also, I just tweeted to Jeremy Crawford to ask, and explained both sides in the thread, a bit more long winded: twitter.com/virtualdxs/status/1070349941560664064
 
@DuncanXSimpson I think your meta is definitely good, but just as an aside what about the "Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic field?" Sage Advice makes you think it supports your view of permanence?
Thanks for editing that stuff in BTW I think it definitely helps us to understand what your objections are.
 
This quote: "Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can
be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question:
is the spell’s duration instantaneous? If the answer is
yes, there is nothing to dispel or suspend." While it's not instantaneous, it's only 6 seconds, as opposed to permanent.
 
@DuncanXSimpson Sure, but the spell then later goes on to say that it can be made permanent.
So , why does that not matter?
 
@Rubiksmoose Yes, but I'd argue that that's not a Magical Effect, as explained in my third tweet in the thread I linked.
 
But if you are using SA as evidence doesn't this directly contradict you:

Can permanent magical effects be dispelled? Or are they no longer considered magical effects once permanent?

If the effect of a spell becomes permanent, it can be dispelled, unless its description says otherwise (such as in the wall of stone spell)."
 
4:34 PM
@DuncanXSimpson I prefer your take on that, and I dislike the other option.
 
Keep in mind, a Permanent Teleportation Circle never teleports anybody. Only the normal one does, using a permanent one as a sort of "lock on".
 
@DuncanXSimpson Bingo. It isn't a brick, it's the whole darned building.
 
@Rubiksmoose The thing is the effect does not become permanent. A new effect is created, which is permanent, and I'd argue that the new effect isn't a Magical Effect per se (as in the tweet).
 
@DuncanXSimpson Ah I see.
But, that again is contradicted by SA which says that any effect created by a spell is inherently magical right?
Even if it is a new effect, it is an effect created by a spell and all effects created by spells are magical.
 
@Rubiksmoose This is why we can't have nice things. The devs are unwilling to use the plain english definition of permanent. :p I am disappointed in JC's waffling on this
 
4:38 PM
 
@NautArch yeah
In other news: The Germans really need to tighten-up on their cake security - at this time of year a heck of a lot of it is stollen
 
@KorvinStarmast Fwiw I would prefer that the ruling be to use the normal meaning of permanent better (in that you can't dispel it). But where is JC waffling on this? Every bit of evidence from him seems to reinforce one interpretation (the one in the SAC).
 
Then using the word permanent seems to me a misleading choice. And in the original PHB True Polymorph was permananet, not "until dispelled" so the original intent was that 'permanent is permanent' so waffling is the charge
 
@KorvinStarmast to be fair though they changed most of that with errata.
 
Waffling. :p And I don't like what he did with shield master either in the 'revisionist' thing ...
 
4:41 PM
@KorvinStarmast argh, looks like it's a UA thing I missed.
 
@NautArch No worries, clarification is good!
 
@KorvinStarmast Well sure, JC does a lot of bad rulings and infuriatingly contradicts himself all the time. But I think this case is very very clear even if it seems like we would prefer it the other way.
I just seems like all the objections to this are "well I want it to be the other way" despite the rulings being very clear.
But maybe I'm still missing something.
 
@Rubiksmoose I'm enjoying discussing this, and you bring up some very good points. The part of Sage Advice you mention, are you referring to "Is the breath weapon of a dragon magical?"
 
@DuncanXSimpson That is indeed the one.
 
@Rubiksmoose Here's the thing about that one. For reference, it says that if any of these are true, it's a Magical Effect:
• Is it a magic item?
• Is it a spell? Or does it let you create the effects of a spell
that’s mentioned in its description?
• Is it a spell attack?
• Is it fueled by the use of spell slots?
• Does its description say it’s magical?
 
4:47 PM
@DuncanXSimpson Correct. And it would fall into the second category since teleportation circle is a spell.
 
Speaking of... "ThE sPeLl DrAgOn'S bReAtH cAnNoT bE tWiNnEd BeCaUsE iT cAn AfFeCt MuLtIpLe TaRgEtS."
 
Option 2 seems to be the one pointing at this being magical. However, I'd argue that Permanent Teleportation Circle is not a spell, and the Teleportation Circle spell only lasts 6 seconds, and after that the spell Teleportation Circle is gone. Therefore, Permanent Teleportation Circle does not qualify as a magical effect since, unlike True Polymorph, there is not a specific rule that says the standard effect of it becomes permanent.
 
@DuncanXSimpson But here is nothing named "Permanent Teleportation Circle" referenced anywhere.
At least not by my reading
> You can create a permanent teleportation circle by casting this spell in the same location every day for one year.
note that there are no caps and no italics. Reading it in normal english it is:
permanent (adjective describing the following noun) teleportation circle (the current effect of this spell).
 
@Rubiksmoose But it goes on to say they're not the same thing. An actual permanent Teleportation Circle, which would be a continuous portal, does not exist in 5e.
The effect of the spell is a portal that leads to another point. A permanent teleportation circle is not that.
 
@DuncanXSimpson but also it doesn't even matter. Because even if the spell created a widget unrelated to teleportation in any way it would see be a magical widget.
@DuncanXSimpson and where do you get this interpretation? Because it seems to me this is exactly what the spell says this is.
 
4:56 PM
@Rubiksmoose I disagree there. Goodberry creates a physical item, which cannot be dispelled.
 
@DuncanXSimpson Actually I believe the rules would disagree with you there.
 
@DuncanXSimpson I was looking for a spell like that: a spell which creates a physical item that doesn't vanish at the end of its duration.
 
@Rubiksmoose This is my personal interpretation derived from the spell text and sage advice. I'm unclear what you mean by the second statement.
@Rubiksmoose This is a perfect example of where Sage Advice does, in fact, agree with me.
 
@DuncanXSimpson Let me put this another way: what do you think this spell actually does when made permanent?
 
@Rubiksmoose The berries don't vanish at the end of the duration. They lose their magical properties after that duration, but they can still be used to make a non-magical smoothie after the duration ends.
 
4:58 PM
Can you use dispel magic on the creations of a spell like
animate dead or affect those creations with antimagic
field? Whenever you wonder whether a spell’s effects can
be dispelled or suspended, you need to answer one question:
is the spell’s duration instantaneous?
@Rubiksmoose I believe that this spell isn't made permanent, but when cast every day for a year, has built up a significant "dent" in the weave, so to speak, that Teleportation Circle can then lock onto.
 
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