At the company I work for we have just started mob programming, where the team of three that I am a part of all write the code for our project together at one keyboard, and we only proceed if we all agree on the path forward.
It has been commented that we always take my path, and not a path put ...
@TolMera in pair programming you either have a "lead" who is the more senior one and has the deciding vote or you have a pair that is comfortable working together and reach consensus more often then not
doing that when n > 2 is much much harder, utilization of the team dwindles as you add more people as well
there's a reason the phrase "designed by committee" is a byword for something being crap
as well
mob makes sense only as a last resort for a particularly obstinate story when all other avenues have failed - and only then when time is too pressing to properly cycle through a spike
when you try and mob with 4-5 (or more - shudder) devs it's like locking 5 cats in a closet with a screwdriver and expecting to come back in a few hours to find a set of shelves
@motosubatsu that's an great analogy, it kind of sounds like mob programming would be better as a development meeting, then a couple of coders go off and implement in pairs. Otherwise yea personality has way too much sway and clash
@TolMera yep.. unfortunately it can be seen as "trendy" by idiots who lap up articles that make frequent use of words like "collaboration" and "synergy" and show pics of groups of impossibly good-looking programmers clustered around a keyboard smiling
it'll go away eventually but it will likely spend the next few years as a thorn in the side of the development industry
@TolMera I'm sure there are consultants who have made a pretty penny or two by going in to companies and running "workshops" to transition companies to tripe like this
it's great to look back on Dilbert strips from ~20 years ago to see that no matter how much things change in the workplace they still manage to stay the same
@motosubatsu The problem with mob programming is that you either have rigid standards and practices, which limits the efficacy, creativity and timliness, ,or you have a disjointed mess that is nearly impossible to maintain without a team of psychologists.
Well, this is probably the most difficult post to write I've ever written on this site. I have been part of this community more than six years at this point (including 4+ as a moderator) but circumstances in my life mean that it is time for me to take a step back and resign from being a moderator...
Oh, see I really started coding with PHP @RichardU, so that's the standard for me. I can cope with both methods, but I can understand it not being highly maintainable.
@RichardU COBOL? How did you survive? though honestly COBOL programmers are in demand at banks? apparently a random number of key systems are still running on antiquated versions of COBOL and MainFrame
@TolMera this is the problem with PHP.. it's easy to learn for beginners but absolutely shouldn't be used by beginners because of all the bad habits it teaches
Well, this is probably the most difficult post to write I've ever written on this site. I have been part of this community more than six years at this point (including 4+ as a moderator) but circumstances in my life mean that it is time for me to take a step back and resign from being a moderator...
for the record I wanted that to have a capitalized title but "enderland's Two Week Notice" looked weird. And now it's bothering me that I see it all lowercase in this chat >.>
@TolMera If they're closing for that reason, it's a nonsense reason. I've seen many make the transition, and for just the reason @SouthpawHare is saying.
@SouthpawHare - just because you're here, I would recommend looking at becoming a trainer or consultant. Both of which allow you to use your skills and experience.
I don't know, and I don't think that's the first question. I think that's more like the last question. I think it makes sense to consider all my options first.
It kind of feels like the whole world as I know it has been flipped upsidedown. I need to realize that I know nothing, and start from scratch in thinking about this.
@SouthpawHare I know a fellow who, after the bloodbath of the early 00's went to work as a security guard. Then his company went into IT security as well, guess who heads it?
I do envy my Dad. He worked a fairly routine job using inventory management software for a stock room at a factory. It seemed very non-stressful, and he was there for like 40 years or something.
my aunt's husband can't understand why I don't want to work for his multinational conglomerate. He's been there for 25 years, has 50 days PTO a year and makes well north of 125.000€ a year
thing is now starting you start with non-increasing 22 days PTO (legal minimum), less then a third of the salary and no flex hours with additional overtime "as required"
My dad is one of those people who for some reason is incredible at anything he picks up. He started working with his hands at a young age (14) and now can build you practically anything or fix anything. I wonder if he would have excelled at programming if he picked that up, he's a very good strategical and logical thinker.
my dad is an accountant (no further qualifications) who through a very very fortunate series of events made it to head of quarterly accounting at a multinational credit insurance firm
according to his self reflection, he's never worked hard or even exceptionally well in his life, just a series of "I know this guy who knows a guy who..."
I have only negatively voted questions on this site, but I can't imagine I'm actually that bad at asking questions, considering I do fine or better on all the other SE sites
@RichardU mr 123 rep is of that special breed of users who never writes answers or questions but instead dispenses their "wisdom" through comments almost exclusively
Although amusingly, since up-votes are worth so much more than down-votes, every one of my negative-total questions has still been of a small profit of points
@IDrinkandIKnowThings well for starters to discuss it in chat, it would be good to see someones perspective and talk about it. Especially if you have different opinions. Plus I'm curious to see who the ruthless downvoters are, it seems to be the same few people every time. Would love to have a chat and see where they're coming from. I feel like there should be some sort of harmony in the voters yet I feel like atm it's very divided. Either a hard no or a hard yes, nothing in between.
@RichardU That would be pretty limiting, I have little to contribute after someone like @motosubatsu get's a chance to answer, and I'm not in need of any help. Forcing people to ask/answer in order to comment would have unseemly consequences.
From a personal perspective I don't mean it to gang up on the ruthless voters or 'jerks', I'd rather understand them or have them understand my view. I think the place would be better if there's more harmony in the 'opinions' of the voters.
But then again there's a very good reason I'm not a mod ;)
@Twyxz after you get to a certain rep, you begin to encourage a hate-dom. I always get at least two down votes on everything, even my posts that are overwhelmingly up-voted.
@Twyxz oh, I know who's downvoting me, but I don't care, at this point, it's like trying to put out a forest fire with a garden hose. they have no effect.
@IDrinkandIKnowThings but downvoting doesn't help anyone imo. If I don't know why you're downvoting, I can't grow/learn from your downvote. I can never get better at asking or answering a question from nothing more than a downvote.
So isn't there some kind of threshold where you get suspended or something if you have too many downvotes? Should I be worrying about that at this point?
@IDrinkandIKnowThings but poor because of what? Spelling? How it's asked? Do you not understand it? If you make me a drawing and I tell you 'Nope, it's a shitty drawing.' how will you improve the drawing?
workplace.stackexchange.com/q/121778/62397 Also, please help me improve this question. I have no idea what's wrong with it, but it means a lot to me right now and I really want to make it work
@SouthpawHare there have been a few times when a user has gone after another user by going into their profile, jumping to all of their Qs and As, and down-voted them.
That triggers an alert, and the down-votes are reversed, and the offender suspended.
I just don't see how instead of downvoting straight away, people can't just give a quick comment about what to change. I always try to do that first, give it some time, then downvote if there is no response.
@RichardU This is good, though I'm wary of saying that every job literally ended "due to stress". I feel like that's maybe leaving out a little too much nuance.
In some cases, I left because I became unhappy. In other cases, I was fired or pressured to leave because I was going to try to stick it out but wasn't fast or good enough.
The latter is only indirectly "because" of stress. It was still stressful, though, and something I want to avoid.
No worries - I tried to phrase things a bit more generically - i.e. asking for a strategy for asking how to find a suitable position rather than asking for specific recommendations as for some reason the notion of giving career advice causes strokes amongst the "objective is as objective does" brigade
@SouthpawHare not a problem at all - the last thing I'd want to do is take it away from being "your" question :)
I've rolled it back to the previous edit so you can start from something more to your liking if you want to make any further changes :)
@RichardU yep.. despite the efforts of some people helping people is what I signed up for - and I plan on doing it as long as I can before they make it completely impossible :)
You know, I find it interesting that I commonly find people who are surprised that I am surprised that the software field is so difficult and challenging. I've been legitimately shocked by how much of a strain it is, but it seems like that's common knowledge to most people.
To be frank, I got into it because as a kid, I found programming so easy
My brain seems made for programming logic. It seemed like what I was made to do.
@SouthpawHare my advice would be to breakdown what aspects of programming you feel suit you into the real core components - way below the level of specific technologies. e.g. it could be "I like problem solving"
I'd also suggest having a think about the other skills you've picked up along the way - in 8 years you've probably acquired a whole host of ancillary skills and domain knowledge that you could use to leverage a transition into a different role in an industry you're already familiar with
I guess as a first thought... I enjoy being organized and technically-minded in everything I do, I am super-OCD about everything, and I love being useful and having other people have a good opinion about me, which my self-esteem is significantly based around.
for example I've worked in IT for two companies in the Utilities sector - and I could easily move into several different positions in that sector (at least in terms of capabilities)
@motosubatsu I'd love to be a SCRUM Master or an Agile Coach or something like that! However, they seem pretty rare, and definitely also require at least some additional certification, if not education, it seems.
At one place where I worked, they were super big on Agile, and had a staff of several Agile Coaches. I started training with them on the side while I was failing at being a developer, and it was noted that I seemed pretty good at it.
When I'm not being socially anxious, I seem to have great people skills. Friendly, open, and a good leader (when I feel confident about what I'm leading on).
It's just that it all comes crumbling down sometimes...
Never tried, but think it's likely, but don't really want to know for sure. I find that it doesn't really matter, since I don't want to use it as a crutch.
@SouthpawHare I get what you mean :) I was curious because I recently realized it myself, and I don't know yet whether I wanna go for a diagnosis. But I feel the same way about the fact that it's no excuse for anything. I just felt better having a potential explanation about why I am how I am
@avazula my aim getting a diagnosis was the fact there were some useful resources I could get access to if I had an official diagnosis, unfortunately the a##hole doctor I saw agreed completely that I was autistic but flat out refused to refer me to the next stage (for the "official" diagnosis) as she declared she didn't see anyway it could help
so I'm in the weird limbo of being diagnosed but not legally classed as autistic
@RichardU I find that I have those same superpowers in most of my life, with learning and excelling at a wide variety of hobbies and skills. But unfortunately, only very rarely at work...
@RichardU I wanna ask, how do you get self-confidence when being an aspie? I'm officially recognized as an HQI (I'm over 140), yet I feel terrible at pretty much everything I do ... This came to the point where I don't even dare focusing on a restrained topic of interest because I'm too afraid of sucking at it.
@motosubatsu the USA closed all of their assylums back in the 60s when the Federal government took over. That's why we have so many homeless and spree killers. We don't treat them.
@avazula same here.. we have some excellent resources for depression and other mental health conditions but you can only get to them if your GP refers you
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