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12:07 AM
Until a few hours I didn't know the $\imath$, $\jmath$ etc. commands, I used to type $\hat i$ (not really -> worse, $\check i$)...... :D
Do you think I wasted much of the potential of those commands all this time?
Especially in the case of $\check i$ the output is VERY BAD
 
 
1 hour later…
1:32 AM
@manooooh Soon enough you will be doing supergravity, and really need \bar\imath and so on. How else would you indicate an anti-holomorphic index.;-) (This spellchecker is insane, it does not even know supergravity nor holomorphic. What's going on here?)
 
 
3 hours later…
4:19 AM
@marmot I don't know!! You are talking in Chinese, but I like that
 
@manooooh Almost. My Mandarin is actually really bad. Ni hao?
 
4:50 AM
@marmot "konichiua"
 
Isn't that Japanese? Subimasen?
 
5:04 AM
@marmot yes you are right. Here when you don't understand what is someone saying you say "Are you talking in Chinese?!"
 
@manooooh I guess that's something rather common. In Germany, if you want to say something is fishy you might end up saying "This appears Spanish to me"....
 
5:34 AM
@JosephWright I hope I'm not giving people disinformation for the below. The short conversation between you and Frank (and the surrounding conversations on that Q) has led me to advise people just stick with $ rather than \( and \) since my early days with TeX. Has there been significant change in that space over the last five years?
259
Q: Are \( and \) preferable to dollar signs for math mode?

Mark MeckesAlong the lines of Why is \[ ... \] preferable to $$ ... $$?, what reasons are there (if any) to favor \( ... \) over $ ... $?

If there's a large conversation to be had, I can bring it up on the list if you prefer. Or if it could be a lot of information, I can ask a follow-up Q; the original is getting to be ten years old :')
 
 
2 hours later…
7:19 AM
Hi,
I'm experimenting with `ltxgrid`. Do you know why the hyphenation is ignored in the case of `\twocolumngrid`?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:57 AM
@SeanAllred I think it's fair to say that the majority view on the team is that for (short) inline math mode blocks, $...$ is the clearest syntax
 
9:30 AM
arara is one star to reach 200!
 
@PauloCereda Better now?
 
@TeXnician awwwww <3
YAY WE REACHED 200 STARS!
6
 
@PauloCereda Btw: Are you ready for some e-mail?
 
@TeXnician Yes, and you too. :)
 
10:29 AM
@JosephWright @SeanAllred in an ideal world, things would have changed in 1998 and we'd all be using <math>..</math> but ...
 
@DavidCarlisle In an ideal world you'd like to use HTML syntax for TeX input?
 
@Skillmon mathml (which is part of html now). That is in fact what we do here.
 
10:47 AM
@DavidCarlisle then go write another package :) But seriously I don't know whether that'd be better. I like the TeX syntax (for the most time).
 
@DavidCarlisle seems very unlikely to get used wide spread (just scammed a bit through the documentation, I have no idea what I'd do with it...). It seems like you provided something on which others could build but don't do. And I love the bugs section of the documentation :)
 
ooh xmltex:-) If I was doing this I'd use XSLT, it really is a lot easier to get XSLT to handle the XML re-arrangement and write out some tex rather than get TeX to do it at the same time. — David Carlisle Mar 20 '13 at 16:31
@Skillmon I'd forgotten about that section, but it is true
 
11:04 AM
@DavidCarlisle as always! Only undocumented features...
 
@Skillmon but here for our product doc we use mathml (and xml for the rest of the document) as we use a tightly constrained and product-specific schema that allows us to generate code and documentation in multiple formats and multiple programming languages from the same source., it's so much easier to parse xml than tex
 
@DavidCarlisle That's correct, the parsing of TeX code with something different from TeX the program is really hard :)
 
@Skillmon so we can take a documented error message (which typically has the constraint as maths) and generate the documentation of that error message in html or pdf or restructed text for python sphynx and the code of the actual error handler in fortran, c, c++ exception handler, python, matlab etc. having the math in xml not tex to start with makes it far more practical to transform in multiple ways
 
user image
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@Skillmon ^^
 
11:20 AM
@UlrikeFischer Yay, and thank you very much!
 
 
3 hours later…
2:19 PM
@DavidCarlisle Honestly, yuck :) But that's just my opinion (look mah, no research!). I guess the yuckiness of XML syntax could be abstracted over with your choice of editor/preprocessor.
@JosephWright Thanks for the update :)
 
@SeanAllred I hadn't realised there was a choice of editor
 
@DavidCarlisle of course: eshell$ ed
 
@SeanAllred as long as nxml-mode works with it.
 
@DavidCarlisle I really need to look into nxml-mode. I work with XML 'enough', but I still only use nxml for its superior syntax highlighting – I can't say I know any actual editing support commands
 
@SeanAllred our manual source seem to be around 1026728 lines of xml, I really wouldn't want to contemplate generating code from that much TeX....
 
2:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle Good heavens… what is that a manual for?
 
@SeanAllred this is one view nag.co.uk/numeric/cl/nagdoc_cl26.2/html/frontmatter/… but also much of the underlying code (all the user visable interfaces in fortran,C,matlab,python,..) are generated from the same files.
 
@DavidCarlisle That's impressive. Gives a whole new impression of the 'keep documentation with the code' concept.
 
@SeanAllred same document set, restyled a bit (and all the python code also just from same xml) nag.co.uk/numeric/py/nagdoc_latest/readme.html
 
3:29 PM
@TeXnician: you've been poked. :)
 
@PauloCereda Just got it, thanks. Looks awesome :)
 
@TeXnician ooh
@SeanAllred (")>/
 
vlg
4:10 PM
@UlrikeFischer Yeah, I do. Was hinted at a reinstall of miktex in the github. Although the initial problem of updating yielded a similar error, sth not found in the miktex core dll, albeit a different thing. In the end though, after installing all the packs, erything works
somehow.. they really show make an update feature in the console, reinstalling is kind of a choir because of all the packages.
 
vlg
4:33 PM
Would the used xcolor scheme be relevant to the color inversion algorithm? Inverting the color of screencap in ms paint tells me at least that there's a discrepancy.
 
5:02 PM
@vlg Read the xcolor docs for a lot on the complexity of any colour conversions ...
 
5:15 PM
anyone speak Italian?
@PauloCereda ^^
 
@DavidCarlisle Millions of people ...
 
@JosephWright I meant anyone can read a discussion of the hyperref internals and pdf spec in Italian
 
@DavidCarlisle I'd go out on a limb and suggest @egreg ...
 
@JosephWright Oh him :(
@JosephWright been having "fun" with hyperref today
 
@DavidCarlisle I'd seen: glad you are tackling stuff
@DavidCarlisle At some stage I guess I'll be looking at this to get generic code into l3drivers
@DavidCarlisle But first l3build uploads
 
5:20 PM
@JosephWright It's all @UlrikeFischer's fault for persuading Frank to add a % to tables of contents in the kernel making me do the same in hyperref...
 
@DavidCarlisle Sounds about right
 
5:31 PM
@UlrikeFischer the OP says that the change suggested in #1 is from you but no link given github.com/ho-tex/hyperref/issues/1 do you think it would be enough to define \let\hyperefundefinedlink\@firstofone and use \hyperrefundefinedlink{#3} that a user could define how they wish, or is it worth adding some keyval interface to define the formatting? Actually I shoudl probably ask that in the issue...
 
@Skillmon @samcarter argued that, in order to increase the diversity on our site, it would be great if the duckuments also had an example-image-marmot. How do you feel about that? (Needless to say what I think, except that a marmot with crystal ball might be even nicer. ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle oh
@DavidCarlisle Sono italiano di Charing Cross
 
@marmot is there a way to create marmots with random stuff around it?
 
@PauloCereda I believe you have a passport
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
5:40 PM
@PauloCereda and you know all about pizza
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
Nutella pizza is good.
 
@CarLaTeX will never speak to you again
 
@Skillmon I guess you may want to ask @samcarter that question. (I think it is just using the \duck[invisible] trick and then repeat the random item story for the ducks. However, I am not sure if all items that look good on a duck also look good on a marmot.)
 
@Skillmon This feature will be added soon (as soon as I ported more of the items from the ducks to the tikzlings). I also plan to add a command which will give a random animal or being from the tikzlings.
 
6:10 PM
@samcarter then maybe don't include an example-image-marmot but an example-image-animal that adds a random tikzling.
 
@Skillmon Besides that you can't call them animals -- @marmot will complain :)
 
6:25 PM
@samcarter Absolutely! marmots are beings! ;-)
 
6:52 PM
@DavidCarlisle the link is de.comp.text.tex.narkive.com/r7OOusMU/…. As it is only to debug more easily wrong link, imho no complicated interface is needed.
 
7:06 PM
@UlrikeFischer thanks I'll add wrapper as suggested
 
@DavidCarlisle Nutella pizza is not a pizza :P (@PauloCereda)
2
 
7:23 PM
@JosephWright Touring today. :-)
 
@CarLaTeX I fully agree and think that this can only be decided by Italians!
 
@egreg Brum brum
 
@marmot ok, then it'll be example-image-animals-and-marmots-which-are-beings-and-not-animals-as-marmot-sa‌​ys.
 
@DavidCarlisle I got a bug report ;-). github.com/u-fischer/luaotfload/issues/6
 
@Skillmon Yes, contentwise this is great, some may find it a bit long... ;-)
 
7:31 PM
@UlrikeFischer is the champaign drunk already?
 
@marmot you can't get them all, unless you're Ash.
 
@Skillmon How about great-example-image?
 
@marmot nah, that is judgemental and somehow downgrades the fabulous example-image-duck.
 
@Skillmon arguably-great-example-image ?
 
@DavidCarlisle Not yet. But imho I can blame the pgf library.
 
7:34 PM
@UlrikeFischer It's a weird one
 
@JosephWright I know what happens. The pgf code uses local n = resolvers.findfile (name, suffix). resolvers.findfile is a function from luaotfload which has changed slightly (suffix lua is now of type tex). But I don't see a way to change this in luaotfload.
 
@UlrikeFischer I wonder why it's not just using require() along with (if required) kpse
@UlrikeFischer So it's using part of luaotfload for entirely non-font business? Risky ...
 
@JosephWright Sorry for just pinging you, but I saw you're online and even though I searched for some while I could not find an answer on meta. If you have time, could you perhaps look at tex.stackexchange.com/q/453102/121799. The user refuses to put an MWE because the issue is the same as in a previous question. However, as the previous question does not have an answer, I cannot mark the new question as a duplicate of the old one. What am I supposed to do?
 
@JosephWright I'm not sure. But I think a remember a discussion about the naming of the lua files. the library has quite a lot "library.lua" in various subfolders.
 
@JosephWright Short one, just about 450 km. I had to get home early.
 
7:48 PM
@marmot There is a MWE in the older question. So I guess the best plan is to solve that one, then close the newer one as a dupe.
 
@JosephWright Yes. ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer ah, of course: pgf favours lots of files over DocStrip or whatever from sources ...
 
@marmot :) We'll see whether it'll get added (every file is another file name added to the regex for the random page selection).
 
@JosephWright But it is curious, the code uses simply return kpse.find_file(name,suffix) if the luaotfload function is not available. Why doesn't it use it always?
 
@JosephWright Well, there is an answer by @UlrikeFischer, which she herself deleted. How would I be able to solve it? (The best I could do is to offer a workaround, e.g. based on eso-pic and tikz. But this is certainly not an answer.) So, if I understand you correctly, users could add 100 copies of that question, and we will never be able to close them as duplicates because there is no answer?
 
7:52 PM
@UlrikeFischer Perhaps for loading on ConTeXt ...
 
@Skillmon Well, you could just use the lighting inside a marmot burrow, i.e. add black rectangles instead. ;-)
 
@JosephWright Ah. This could be.
 
@marmot <3
 
@marmot The bug is happening when the heading falls at a page break: watermarks have to hook in there. I suspect a mix of bugs in different places ..
 
@DavidCarlisle -- @CarLaTeX speaks italian
 
8:05 PM
@barbarabeeton probably not very well, if her understanding of pizza is any indication. @PauloCereda tells me that nutella pizza is good, so he can explain the hyperref issue.
 
@JosephWright I am more wondering about the policy on this site: I could go ahead and ask a "question" with just a link to an unsolved question, and no one could close my new "question" because the original real question does not have an answer?
 
@marmot We can close such questions: I can certainly mark as a dupe. One could also argue for 'unclear what you are asking'.
 
@JosephWright OK, good, thanks! What can an ordinary user without super powers do? (At least my attempt to close it as a duplicate of the original one didn't go through since the original question does not have an (active) answer.)
 
@marmot Flag or ping one of the mods here
 
@JosephWright So we always need to bug you guys... do you ever hibernate? ;-)
 
8:12 PM
@marmot It's always possible to appoint more mods ...
@marmot Flagging as unclear would be OK
 
@marmot I'd like to: next Monday lectures start.
 
@egreg For me they start at precisely the same day. And almost twice as much students as last year.... just hope the number does not double every year...
 
@marmot -- i think somebody tried that with grains of rice and went bankrupt. using students instead, your result would probably be functional insanity. good luck.
 
@barbarabeeton The someone was, as far as I know, the one who wanted to pay the inventor of the chess game. All the inventor was asking was 1 grain on the first field, 2 on the second, 4 on the third. Well 2^64-1 is large. ;-)
 
8:37 PM
@marmot You should have quite big rooms in a few years.
 
@egreg or smaller students... ;-)
 
@marmot I could easily double the number of my students each year. I don't see what the problem is?
 
@egreg \student[scale=1/2^(\year-2016)]
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I can also answer your and @egreg's question in no time. ;-)
@DavidCarlisle Oh, did your post end with a question mark? So now you are ahead of @egreg, at least what questions concerns. ;-)
 
8:58 PM
@marmot it was only a minimal example. I don't think that I really tried to debug -- imho one shouldn't use xwatermark, there are better packages to get watermarks
 
@UlrikeFischer Yes: tikz. (Just kidding, I know it's sort of an overkill here, but there is a nonnegligable fractions of users who are loading it anyway and they may use it. I leave the picture mode to more senior users. ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle @JosephWright tex.stackexchange.com/q/453132/2388. The bug reports are from a quite unexpected direction ;-).
 
@UlrikeFischer it doesn't matter if you break tikz, people can use picture mode.
 
Hey!
Recently I saw questions with amsart. Was not it a kind of old document? What is happening? o.o
 
9:45 PM
@manooooh ?
 
@marmot or eso-pic or others. The problem with xwatermarks is that it redefines to many internals.
 
@manooooh amsart is the current submission class for articles published by the AMS, why do you say it is old?
 
@UlrikeFischer Does eso-pic allow you to move stuff around and color it in a convenient way? (I understand that you can do this with the coordinates provided by eso-pic, graphicx and xcolor, but IMHO this not as convenient as using tikz. And as most users are going to load tikzducks anyway, there is probably nothing wrong in providing a tikz-based workaround. ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle oh, I didn't check any recent document published by AMS. I remember that here we talked a little about this document class and I thought it was old
 
@manooooh well it's old in the same way that article class is old, they all date from the start of latex2e in the early 1990s, but they are still current
 
10:03 PM
@DavidCarlisle "amsart" means American Mathematical Society ARTicle?
 
@manooooh I always thought it would stand for Aspen Marmot Society. ;-)
 
@manooooh yes
 
@marmot hahaha I didn't know Aspen word!! In Argentina we have a radio called ASPEN :)
 
@manooooh Aspen is a town at 2400 m of elevation and surrounded by marmot colonies. ;-)
 
@marmot You should claim statehood.
 
10:06 PM
@marmot wow, marmots are in everything!
 
@egreg I don't.
@egreg ^^^ others do... ;-)
 
Wow
@marmot @egreg @DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer wanna play Pinturillo??? Each game has 3 rounds, we can play 2 games!!
 
@manooooh I'm playing chess tomorrow and now have to go to bed.
 
@manooooh Need to leave in 10 minutes and finish something
 
@UlrikeFischer ok, enjoy!
@marmot have to go to Basketball?
 
10:12 PM
@manooooh No, basketball is tomorrow. Today it's family dinner.
 
@marmot a marmot's dinner? ;)
 

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