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12:57 AM
Alright, I gotta ask some advice about my "How To Make a Fair TPK" question. I had originally thought it would be best to leave out specific campaign details in order to create a question with generally applicable answers, but would it be better to give specific details about my specific encounter to make the problem more "solvable"?
 
1:41 AM
@JohnCarroll link?
 
2
Q: How Can I Make a Fair TPK?

John CarrollI have a campaign to end. My players and I have agreed due to time commitment issues that our campaign should end soon. They have just encountered a summoning ritual of the Avatar of the Evil God of Destruction. I think since it is planned to be the last session, it is fitting to have a wave-bas...

 
Okay, you're trying to end with a TPK, yes?
And the players have agreed that the campaign should end, but have they agreed it should be a TPK?
 
The question is asking for a lot and the criteria are subjective to your players
It should be fun, and fair, and give a sense of closure to the story, etc etc
At best you're going to get an answer in really general terms.
 
I mean, if you want it to be ~fair~ and fun and campaign-ending, let the players play their characters and the horrendously-overpowered monster horde they're up against for their last stand. Sit back, have a snack, and watch....
But if the players don't agree ahead of time that a TPK is how it all should end, I can't imagine anything feeling "fair."
(But maybe that's a failure of my imagination?)
 
I'd like to point out the difference between "unwinnable" and "unsurvivable"
Unwinnable challenges are typically frowned upon, because they take away player agency, and force them to waste time with a futile task
Unsurvivable means they could succeed at the objective, but by the end, they're mostly dead. It gives the characters a chance to "go out in a blaze of glory", so to speak.
 
1:59 AM
@nitsua60 I agree with that sentiment yeah
Agreement is key in that situation
 
Stepping back, though... As for whether the ending is fun and fair, that's going to depend on the players and their expectations for the campaign. Since it depends on your specific players, it's hard to provide a universal answer.
 
Big thing about a pre-planned TPK is to keep players playing, IMO.
 
Ben
2:18 AM
So our game of Savage Worlds is going in a circle.
 
@Ben I don't know Savage Worlds. What's the elevator pitch for it?
 
Ben
@nitsua60 Super heroes.
Your level in skills determine which dice you roll, eg. level 0 in fighting (untrained) is d4-2, level 1 is d4, level 2 is d6, etc.
And instead of hp it works similar to Dark Heresy with a tier success/wound system.
So you need a 6 to hit, you roll a 10, that's a success, and a 14 is a success and a raise.
And it uses "Bennys", again similar to DH's Fate points, except you can't burn them to avoid death.
I think that's the gist
 
Cool, thanks.
 
Ben
2:46 AM
So, the game we're playing has had several arcs ongoing through the campaign, on different levels. There's the low level stuff "Oh, there's news of bad guys stealing stuff". Then there's the middle-ground: "Your teammates have been kidnapped by a future, evil version of yourself". Then there's the high level: "A supervillain is running riot over the city". And overarching it all, is the endgame: "Doomsday (the concept, not the name) is approaching; warning courtesy of your future evil self."
The circle that keeps happening is that we'll be dealing with the middle-level stuff, then BOOM, GUESS WHO's BACK, the supervillain with a +16 boost to his mind control powers, with all you guys rolling a d6 for smarts.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:24 AM
@nitsua60 Yes, I'm ending the campaign with a TPK encounter where a God of Destruction summons multiple monsters to fight them every 1d4 rounds. The purpose of making the encounter a TPK is to let me go crazy on encounter design and for the players to be in a desperate fight for survival. The players have been informed that the next fight will be hard. I personally do not know if the fight will end in a TPK because I am trying to make the fight sort of level balanced.
 
@JohnCarroll Is there any way to give them an alternative goal, instead of just survival?
 
I have thought of 2 ways they could possibly win, and I have created skill/will challenges that, if completed, will give the players boosted abilities towards completing either. The first way to win is survival. The alternative method to winning is extinguishing all of the many bonfires scattered across the battlefield that contribute to creating the smoke that maintains the form of the Avatar of the God of Destruction.
 
Ben
Just my two cents: Whatever it is you do; give them a legacy. A justification as to why they went all in, with little to no hope of coming out again. Sure, you can put them up against the BBEG, but they're ultimately not going to beat them, therefore the BBEG can continue being Big, Bad and Evil.
If they have achieved something; protected their favourite town... rescued a powerful ally... lifted the curse weighing down the land... they'll definitely be happy to die.
And will definitely be talking about that adventure for a long time
 
From my experience, if a challenge has only one goal, and the GM makes it secretly impossible, then the players may feel cheated, and that the challenge was a waste of time. Of course, I can't speak for all players. Some enjoy the combat for the sake of combat.
 
If they hold out for long enough and defeat a number of the monsters presented to them it is reasonable that the city guard whose jurisdiction they are fighting in could arrive in time to extinguish the remaining bonfires before the Avatar becomes fully corporeal and rains destruction on the city.
I hate impossible challenges. This is why this encounter is causing me so much work. I want it to be a TPK, but I also want it to be possible to win
 
4:38 AM
Having a secondary non-survival goal is a useful trick for these types of challenges. The bonfires is a good idea.
 
There's advantages to both. If they are able to put out all the bonfires without fighting much, they'll avoid a lot of damage, but if they hold out and put themselves through the gauntlet, I will award them for that too, especially if they help others at great risk to themselves.
 
They don't need to be mutually exclusive. Maybe the players come up with a strategy where some of them distract the enemy onslaught, while the others focus on the bonfires.
 
That will probably be how it ends up just due to how many bonfires there are to put out and how spread out across the battlefield they will be.
 
As long as you indicate the importance of the bonfires somehow, then you're off to a good start
I don't know your players, nor can I predict how they'd react to their characters dying. Then again, character death is part of the game. It happens. TPKs happen.
 
@Ben You can't? I thought soak rolls are one of the main use for them.
 
4:44 AM
My players want to stop playing my campaign, so it's a sort of season finale type thing.
Each player is already in like 2 other campaigns. My friend group is quite enamored with the game.
 
Ben
@kviiri Soaking != death saves. In DH you reach 0 wounds, which means you die, unless you burn a fate point. In SW, you use a Benny to soak wounds, depending on how well you roll
 
@MikeQ Last session it was hinted that destroying bonfires would make the image of the god flicker. In case they forgot, I have a part of the encounter planned that will remind them of this fact.
 
Ben
Fate points are hard to come by... I never had more than one at any given point, cos I was often dying. Lol. And, the same thing has happened in SW, (I have exceeded 3 wounds, which doesn't necessarily lead to death saves), but it didn't affect the amount of Benny's I had
 
 
3 hours later…
7:42 AM
you don't die at 0 wounds in DH
unless DH2 really changed that
 
0
Q: Would a question about "D&D to real life" human ethnicities be a good/on-topic question?

NathanSSince even before asking my question What human ethnicities exist in other settings besides the Forgotten Realms?, I've wanted to ask a question about how the ethnicities in the question relate to real-life ethnicities. For example, Shou humans, judging by their physical description and sample ...

 
8:00 AM
@Carcer Nah, critical damage goes way back before DH. It's been a part of Warhammer RP since Fantasy.
 
@Miniman I know, I've WFRP'd too
I meant the other way round - I'm not familar with DH2e
 
8:31 AM
@Carcer Neither is Ben - he's talking about 1e.
 
8:49 AM
accurate?
#SecretOrigins
 
 
4 hours later…
12:31 PM
I'm not sure if the proportions are quite right, but the sentiment seems on point.
 
12:43 PM
nah, I don't think it's motivated by hate
 
12:55 PM
Yep, the adversarial player-GM relationship is far more complex :)
 
@kviiri I blame the kids and the music they listen to.
hipping. hopping. dubbing. stepping. You know how it goes.
 
it;s like
early D&D is very much more in the Dark Souls vein of games
they don't hate you, but do require you to think suffering is fun
 
Suffering is fun, especially when it happens to my PC and not me
 
@Carcer Dark Sun?
 
Sadly, many games want me to suffer with my PC
 
1:01 PM
I haven't played that for years. I think 2nd ed
@kviiri How so? interminable rolls? unbeatable encounters?
 
1:13 PM
@ColinGross The top offender is Savage Worlds where one gets stunlocked quite easily
So wounded character --> low chances of actually getting to do something on any given turn
 
Ouch. Basically removing player agency.
 
esp. if one didn't take high Spirit when building their char
They did, to their credit, change it for the better so that a simple success, not a raise, is enough to get to act on the turn where you succeed on your Spirit test (formerly, normal success would only allow one to act on the next turn)
The wound penalty is super harsh.
 
Would you say it's savage?
 
@ColinGross Well, it's a pretty loaded word
I wouldn't describe it as any of fast, furious or fun though :)
 
@kviiri More of a slog?
Sloggage Worlds ?
 
1:28 PM
@ColinGross No because it doesn't start with an f lol
 
Flog?
Floggage worlds?
 
I wish
 
@ColinGross Now it sounds like a BDSM game lol
 
Oh... I get it. wink Going to the dungeon in your leathers. wink I gotcha.
 
I mean
"Dungeon World" already exists, and you know that's the name of a dubious fetish club somewhere in the world
 
1:34 PM
@Rubiksmoose You mean the classic genre of fantasy, "Beat Dragons, Save Maidens"? I think it's a bit obsolete with its silly gender ideas
 
@kviiri hahaha that is exactly what that means. Definitely.
 
@kviiri Could be "save men". It's unspecified.
 
now I'm imagining Dungeon World, the dubious fetish theme park
the letters S and M could potentially be lots of different things
Monsters, for instance.
 
Salamander Monographs
 
@Carcer You are 100% right though this is guaranteed to be a thing somewhere.
 
1:36 PM
Lizards writing books.
 
Seduce. The possibilities are wild
Bards: Drink, Seduce Monsters
 
Case in point: Very near my last apartment we had "BDSM Market" which was just a grocery store. I never did figure out the story behind it.
 
@Carcer Sing Merrily
 
 
1 hour later…
2:57 PM
Can anybody think of a tricky case of trying to figure out if something is a spell or not? Like I want an example to go through a sample workflow but I can't think of anything that wouldn't be solved by a simple lookup of the name in a spell list.
 
@Rubiksmoose that question :/
 
@Rubiksmoose which system?
 
I'm more interested in what isn't a spell.
 
Sorry, 5e.
@NautArch Yeah the non-spell abilities are usually trickier to pin down in various ways.
 
How about some of the warlock invocations?
 
3:00 PM
Oh that is a good idea. I hadn't thought about coming from it from the non-spell direction.
I think one of the best examples there is the Mystic. But I don't want to use that since it is in UA and the status of Psionics has already flipped from not counting as spell to counting. when it launches it'll probably make a good example though.
 
yeah, I personally don't really play with psionics because I don't need another magic system to complicate things further than Vancian magic already does :P
 
@Rubiksmoose Look closely at monks? Ki is described as magical, and while some of the features say you "use a ki point to cast blahblahh," others are just using ki to achieve something (magical?).
 
@nitsua60 Also a good idea! I'll see if I can find something confusing enough in there to warrant expounding.
 
Oh right. The elemental fist monk, or whatever it's called. Spends ki to produce spell effects.
 
I think you're wise to focus on a spell being something that is cast as a spell.
 
3:11 PM
Yeah I think that gets to the root of the issue really. Something that duplicates a spell effect but not a spell. Another edge case would be something with the same name or very similar to a spell but is not one.
The casting is key to solving either one.
 
@Rubiksmoose @nitsua60 The question is bordering on Too Broad for me.
 
@NautArch what question?
Oh, nvm
 
@Rubiksmoose Your answer covers it pretty well. A spell is something that is said to be a spell. Any other magical effect is not a spell. Done
 
@GreySage Right right I think that covers 98% of cases or more, but I'm trying to think from the perspective of someone who has this issue with a complicated case and work through it. I think there are likely some cases for whom my current advice is insufficient.
For example, some abilities replicate spells but may not be considered them.
On the flip side some abilities allow you to cast spells but the name of the ability is not a spell.
I just need to find and explore cases like those to make sure the answer encompasses as many problems as possible.
 
Is there ever a spell that's not cast? I wonder if casting, itself, is the sine qua non of spelldom?
 
3:24 PM
@nitsua60 Don't some adventure modules have areas like that?
 
Monks don't cast a stunning strike, it can't be counterspelled or heightened or whatever. Paladins don't cast divine smite.
@ColinGross What do you mean?
 
@nitsua60 "blah blah blah area is under the effect of a darkness spell"
 
@nitsua60 I think that is the discriminator, yes. An ability can have the exact same effect as a spell (like Darkness), but unless it is cast it isn't a spell
 
Those are class features
@GreySage can you dispel it then?
 
@ColinGross If it is an effect from a spell, yes. If it says darkness spell then I would assume it was cast at some point, unless other text indicates otherwise.
If it said "magic effect in the area equivalent to the darkness spell" then you wouldn't be able to dispel it
 
3:42 PM
@nitsua60 Yeah I think that is where I'm trying to go. I'm trying to work out how the logic will flow from this.
 
How about creatures with spell-like abilities?
Specifically where the stat block does not specify "spell casting" as the ability.
 
@ColinGross and this is why it's getting into Too Broad for me. In order to answer it, you may have to have every edge case. INstead, we should be asking about the edge cases.
 
@NautArch In the stat blocks there are three kinds: spell casting, innate spellcasting, and spell-like abilities that are not casting.
 
@ColinGross but to know if it counts, we should be asking about that case.
 
the cultist has spell casting. imps have innate. beholder has spell-like.
You can counterspell the first two, but not the beholder.
I'm not so clear on dispell for spell-like abilities
 
4:00 PM
@ColinGross That's more general than required. A beholder has eye rays that do stuff. Saying their spell-like is a good simplification, but it's not necessarily accurate.
 
Does Pact Magic count as spellcasting?
 
@MikeQ Yes, explicitly
 
@NautArch I thought they eye stalks effect directly refer to the spells.
You look up the eye stalk effects in the spells section of the PHB.
 
@ColinGross nope. THey have names that are similar "Charm, Fear, Disintegration", but they are just the type of eye ray.
 
Under Pact Magic: "Your arcane research and the magic bestowed on you
by your patron have given you facility with spells", and then it goes on to explain how cast them works, calling them spellcasting and spells several times
 
4:04 PM
@NautArch Gotcha
 
@NautArch The names are "Charming Ray", "Sleep Ray", and the like. They don't even replicate any spells, they just have an effect
 
So.. can't be dispelled either then?
 
@ColinGross right, not spells.
 
@ColinGross Correct, and super funnily I just updated my answer with that exact exmple.
Feedback on the updated answer? Does it help or make things more confusing?
 
Note that "spell-like" abilities aren't a thing. They are just actions a creature can take, not their own category like in Pathfinder.
 
4:09 PM
@GreySage Yeah but it is a convenient descriptor. I tried to find another way to phrase it and it kept coming back to that lol
Hmmm I'm going to keep mulling but I think that it was an improvement of sorts. Hopefully trading brevity for clarity with the examples.
 
Interestingly, creatures with spell casting, don't have cast spell as an Action in the stat block.
 
@ColinGross I mean they don't have Attack or Disengage etc. either but they can do those. I believe it says in the beginning of the MM that all monsters can do genereic actions as well.
 
Can I get a sanity check? Is this answer right?
My gut reaction is that the wizard is making the attack. Is there other reasoning out there?
 
4:25 PM
I think "As if the Familiar had cast the spell" is the critical wording there.
 
@DavidCoffron Yes, it's right. THe question is missing whether or not there's an ally within 5', though. THe relevant text is "[Y]our familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell"
it's casting it, it has Pact Tactics.
 
Hmph. For some reason I thought it worked differently. Nevermind. I reread the spell. All good here
 
And it uses the wizard's bonus to hit?
 
@NautArch It isn't casting it, it is delivering it.
 
@Rubiksmoose delivering it as if it is casting.
 
4:28 PM
@DavidCoffron Correct.
 
But it delivers it using the wizard's attack modifier, not the familiar's
 
What's the other question we had about familiar casting as
 
So, if the wizard is +1, then it's +1 w/ advantage?
 
@ColinGross Yup.
 
This is the question that caused me to double take
16
Q: Can a spell cast through a familiar be Counterspelled even if the familiar's "owner" is out of range?

SeraphsWrathThe find familiar text states: Finally, when you cast a spell with a range of touch, your familiar can deliver the spell as if it had cast the spell. Your familiar must be within 100 feet of you, and it must use its reaction to deliver the spell when you cast it. If the spell requires an atta...

But the difference is clear to me now.
 
4:30 PM
Similarly if you had a familiar with 10' reach
 
@ColinGross But what if it's a bugbear? :)
 
@ColinGross it's A touch spell so this would apply:
28
A: Does the bugbear's long-limbed ability apply to melee spell attacks like shocking grasp?

RubiksmooseAs long as you can touch the target you can cast shocking grasp on it Since shocking grasp has a range of touch, your bugbear must be able to reach the target before the melee spell attack commences. The rules don't explicitly define how far a creature can actually reach their arms and touch som...

Uh oh. We have a help pile for system tag, but it's also an opinion based; what do I do?
 
@DavidCoffron I would say nothing at this point.
 
Yeah, the meta advice is to downvote answer to questions without tags
 
More often then not, OP doesn't come back in my experience and if that is the case, then the question remains closed (problem solved). If they do come back and start to edit, then we still have to vote to reopen, so we can have that discussion at that point.
 
4:36 PM
@Rubiksmoose I initially believed effects that imitate spells are not spells, but then I found this: sageadvice.eu/2015/03/24/dispel-magic-potions
 
That's a good find.
 
@Ruse That is a good find, but I don't think they are quite the same. For one, the potions have the same name as the spell they come from in the case of this question. Which would imply that they are spell effects and thus fall under the same policy. Still this seems like an odd and unsupported ruling even so.
 
Potion of flying doesn't reference the spell, but potion of gaseous form does
 
Dispel only removes spell effects. The potion's effect was not cast, but it can still be dispelled, hence that effect is a spell. Also potion of speed is an example
 
However, they're all under magic items in the DMG.
 
4:40 PM
@Ruse hmmmmm
 
Difficult to differentiate the Actions in a stat block as magical or not.
Whereas potions are all clearly under "magic items" in the DMG.
 
If the reasoning holds, then it should also apply to say, the sanctuary effect imitated by the tranquillity feature of an open hand monk
 
@ColinGross well the whole magic or not question is separate from the spell or not.
 
So I think that's close, but doesn't effect the dispellability of creature abilities
If you can dispell the effects of a magic potion, it's not dispelling a spell.
The reason I bring it up for creatures is for things like the charm ray of a beholder. Could you dispell that?
 
@ColinGross no. It's not a 3rd level spell or lower
 
4:42 PM
@ColinGross Difference there is that it doens't say "under the effects of [spell]"
 
So you can dispell the fly spell, but not the fly potion
That's consistent at least and easy to follow.
 
@Ruse I think you are right in your logic here flowing from that ruling, but I'm not sure yet how I feel about that ruling as a basis here. Interesting find for sure....
 
Only dispellable when it states it has "effect of ____"
 
hmmmm
 
Dispel Magic only applying to spell effects is bad design, TBH.
 
4:45 PM
Yeah, on a gut level I also don't like that ruling, but on the plus side it does keep things simple
 
Like, I know it's because they wanted to keep things simple, and not have the spell description be like 2 pages long.
 
@Xirema It does keep the scope limited though... which reduces edge cases.
I think the counterspell/dispell split could have been handled better, but it's not terrible.
 
@DavidCoffron the last time the blood hunter/homebrew thing came up I recall a bit of an argument about it
 
@ColinGross I'm not so sure. Like the potions example shows, there's already ambiguity over what is/isn't considered a "Spell Effect" to begin with.
 
i'm still unsure as to their question. "how would you describe" seems PoB.
 
4:48 PM
@Xirema The ones that reproduce spell effects mention the spell by name specifically.
 
@Rubiksmoose I also don't necessarily agree with thay potion ruling. But if we assume it's right, it removes all edge cases
 
hey there @Ruse, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@NautArch as a question I agree it still needs some work
or at the very least it's not a great question, though it is easily answerable
 
@Ruse Yeah, I think you are right.
 
@Shalvenay hello, I've been lurking for a while
 
4:50 PM
("Blood Hunters are only described as forming short term bonds with a weapon, try a hexblade warlock")
 
Interesting because my thought initially is that it would create edge cases.
 
@Rubiksmoose It would if it were not stated as "spell effects"
 
@Carcer about what?
 
@Rubiksmoose to be honest I was almost done writing an answer that basically said "an effect is a spell if it has been cast. see all these examples..." and then I found that sage advice and trashed the answer xD
 
Is it for the purpose of dispell or counterspell?
Counterspell has to counter something that is cast with spellcasting or innate casting. Dispell nixes spell effects.
 
4:54 PM
@Ruse I can see why. I'm not sure yet how to integrate that into my answer... It seems like such a narrow case, but... hmmm....
@DavidCoffron Whether Blood Hunter is considered homebrew (It's not according to our tag definitions).
 
I think your answer as it's currently written holds in every case
 
@Rubiksmoose yeah, that. The tag is for questions asking help homebrewing content, not using homebrew content published by others, IIRC
 
oh wait, you changed it
 
@Rubiksmoose I thought we had a meta that said it was
 
@Ruse I did lol. Trying to make it clearer. I'll definitely take suggestions for how to make it fit again.
2
Q: Is the DMsGuild considered Homebrew and if so, should we always use the homebrew tag in parallel?

NautArchBased on this question, and the use of the DMs guild tag it made me wonder if the DMsGuild tag is an equivalent to Homebrew or if it should get both tags (one to identify it from DMsGuild and the other to let everyone know this still qualifies as Homebrew.) My concern is that the DMs Guild creat...

Not that I am aware of. This^ would say that it is definitely not though.
 
4:58 PM
I feel like that assumes the publisher is the one creating the content.
 
@DavidCoffron I actually thought there was a meta about the Blood hunter homebrew thing but I can't find it at all. Might have just been an argument here in chat or in the comments.
 
My bad. I'll take the tag off and stop doing it in the future. I feel like we need a tag for these types of questions tho
 
@DavidCoffron I already took care of the tag actually when I tried cleaning up the question a bit.
 
I think that your first try "if it is in a spell list, then it is a spell" is accurate 100% of the time. @Rubiksmoose
 
Maybe some of the tag language could be cleaned up.
 
5:00 PM
@Ruse Well it gets weird when you are talking about abilities though right? Because the abilities aren't named the spell name, and I guess I was trying to capture the logic of how to tell an ability from a spell in the case where an ability has a spell name in its description. Thus where the casting logic comes in.
 
Since my reading of the tag wiki implies that still covers content that is created by a fan but published by a 3pp publisher.
 
Does that make sense or it it craziness/unnecessary?
 
@Rubiksmoose If it's an ability, then its not a spell, unless its innate spellcasting, spellcasting, or psionic spellcasting
 
@Yuuki "Homebrew is for non-published content."
@GreySage Right in which case it still isn't a spell but allows you to cast them. Hmm maybe I don't need to touch that logic at all then?
 
@Rubiksmoose well, the abilities aren't spells, they just say that "you can cast x spell(s)". Even the core spellcasting feature of a cleric says "you can cast cleric spells". In other words, abilities give a character permission to cast spells or (in rare cases like the Tranquillity feature) to imitate spells.
 
5:04 PM
@Ruse Right yeah that is kind of what I was saying.
So what do you think I should do with my answer to improve it then in that light?
@Yuuki If you have any suggestions make the edits!
 
"If its in a spell list it's a spell.
Some abilities look like spells at first glance, but aren't because they are not in a spell list (charm ray example).
Some abilities let you cast spells. The abilities aren't spells but the effects are, regardless of whether you cast the spell (Flames of Phoenix and Tranquillity example).
maybe a foot note with that sage advice about potions to explain why a spell is a spell even if it is not cast."
and I think that covers it @Rubiksmoose
 
@Ruse I like it!
I'll make an edit here to that effect soon I think.
 
@Ruse Potion of Fly isn't the same as the spell though.
 
hey there @Zachiel, how're things going?
 
someone hurry up and reopen this question so I can paste the answer I've already drafted and go home.
 
5:15 PM
Err... potion of flying
 
Potion of flying is like charm ray @ColinGross
 
@Ruse And thanks for the help and feedback! Really appreciated
 
wheras for example, potion of speed is like Tranquillity
 
Potion of Water Breathing.
Same name as the spell
 
yes there's plenty of exmaples
 
5:17 PM
So you can't go by the name, correct?
 
oh I see what you mean. but "potion of water breathing" is not a spell
 
Same with potion of invisibility
magic effect that is not the spell effect invisibility
 
Neither is Cap of Water Breath which I think we have a question about.
 
Water Breath is not the same as the spell name verbatim. Same with Fly != Flying
 
if you look up "potion of water breathing" or "potion of invisibility" in the spell list, nothing comes up. You have to consider the full name
 
5:20 PM
@Carcer FYI, I can appreciate the reluctance to even mention the word "Hexblade" when making suggestions to someone, but it may be worthwhile to mention it, given the build the OP is going for.
 
@Shalvenay motherboard incoming, crossing my fingers, D&D game tonight, first Pathfinder campaign as a DM starting maybe this Fryday, if only everyone could use the same social messenger.
 
@Ruse "potion of" is obviously not a spell.
However, you can dispell spell effects of potions, yes?
 
@Xirema honestly atm it was just because I was too lazy to go look up the appropriate references to xanathars while at work (stuck with things I could find in the basic rules)
I might edit when I get home
 
@Carcer Fair enough.
 
@Zachiel yeah, no kidding, the fragmentation of messaging/chat is quite annoying indeed. and nice on the mobo incoming -- does that mean you'll have a PC soon? :)
 
5:22 PM
@Shalvenay It should!
 
@Zachiel awesome
 
@Ruse Why don't they fall under the Tranquillity like ruling?
 
"Dispel magic can be used against a spell effect created by a potion", but not all potions create spell effects
 
They're not in the spell list, but are spell like effects.
Oh.. i see... it needs the text "effect of [spellname]"
 
the difference between potion of invisibility and potion of speed is that the former doesn't reference a spell in its description, whereas the latter does
 
5:25 PM
@Ruse Does this simplify to effects stated to be spells, spells named in a spell list, and abilities that include the text "effect of [spellname]" ?
 
uh, sorry can you rephrase that last question?
 
The list of things that can be dispelled
gotta run to meetings
ciao
 
Ciao anche a te (bye to you too).
 
@ColinGross chau chau
Anyone have an opinion on the "Oathbreaker" oath from the 5e DMG? Ignoring flavor/evilness, how does it match up mechanically? Is it overpowered, underpowered?
 
@GreySage Oathbreaker? Sounds like a broken option.
 
5:38 PM
@GreySage a little underpowered unless you are fighting alongside fiends and undead in my experience
No I take it back. I had to change Control Undead. Now I remember. Very very overpowered
 
@DavidCoffron Really? It seems like only the Aura of Hate specifically affects Fiends
 
It's like the level 14 Necromancer feature but better
I changed it in our evil campaign.
Everything else is fine but that feature is ridiculous
 
@DavidCoffron What is a Necromancer? Which class?
 
Wizard subclass
Command Undead feature
 
What book is that in?
 
5:42 PM
Players Handbook
 
Oh, school of necromancy, duh
 
@MikeQ XD
 
I'm surprised I never noticed the Oathbreaker's Control Undead before. Yeah, that's pretty OP.
Guess there's a reason they bury it in the DMG rather than making it an explicit core option.
 
@DavidCoffron They're pretty comparable. Both use a save or take control, Necro is permenant (with chance for intelligent undead to escape), OB is 24 hours (CR < level), Necro can spam it, OB can use it 1/short rest
 
@Xirema yeah, it's intended to be something a DM applies instead of a player-chosen option from the start
 
5:46 PM
@Xirema Heh, "bury" it
 
Does the DMG say that it's for paladin PCs who violate their oath? Or is it intended for NPCs?
 
@MikeQ PCs
If the OB had a chance for intelligent undead to escape control, their Control Undead would be strictly worse than the Necro's version
 
@Ruse updated my answer.
 
@Rubiksmoose cool I like it!
 
@GreySage The number of Intelligent Undead is also proportional to the number of high-CR undead. Most of the "Low Int, High CR" undead that exist in the game come from adventure modules.
 
6:00 PM
@Ruse Thanks! (I just added an attribution to you.) I'm not sure yet how to phrase tranquility part yet or how or if the potion thing needs to be addressed, but I'll likely add both in eventually.
 
@Xirema indeed, it seems like the Oathbreaker gets a slightly weaker version, but at a much lower level. It could be a little too low, but it doesn't seem excessive to me.
 
@GreySage but you get one at level 3. Adding new monsters of comparable CR can sway a fight greatly. Trust me. We played with this in an evil campaign and it is really strong. Ended up reducing it to a temporary 1 hour effect instead
It's almost like adding a new PC.
 
@DavidCoffron Almost like adding 1 + 1/2, TBH. CR is difficult to adequately compare to PC level, but given that a CR X is usually treated as a "medium-to-difficult encounter" for 3-4 equivalently leveled PCs, having one swap sides can be a huge tide-turner.
 
Hmm, maybe if it were changed to CR = Level/2
 
@GreySage that puts in kind of in line with conjiration magic. Conjure fey gives you CR 6 as early as level 12. Now Channel Divinity isn't as costly as your 6th level spell slot which also doesn't last as long and has concenteation. It's still a little strong imo
I chose to change the duration to make it a "for a little bit you are really strong" kind of thing. Which made for interesting decisions in game
 
6:55 PM
Is there an actual answer here or just some really good information?
 
@NautArch hm. It does effectively contain an answer but could possibly be rephrased to directly answer the question.
 
@Carcer I am slightly concussed, but wanted to make sure it wasn't just me
 
or... hm. No, you're kind of right, it talks a lot about the mutual intelligibility but seems to open with the implicit assumption that the answer to the question is "yes"
The answer makes no sense unless you assume that a PC can indeed only know one of the primordial dialects without necessarily knowing "primordial" on the whole
 
@Carcer but then if they only know one, but can communicate nearly fully with the others...then why does it matter?
hence my answer :)
 
well, for the reasons he expressed - ability to communicate doesn't necessarily mean flawless communication. The potential for misunderstanding or confusion is higher
but oh well
they're both valid ways of looking at it
 
7:23 PM
@Rubiksmoose Great edit on that bloodhunter...would prefer for the OP to actually say "yes, that's right"...but right now it's a good question with a good answer. Hopefully it's their question :)(
 
7:33 PM
I think it's a pretty good stab at what their question was
 
@NautArch Thanks :) I...did the best I could given that this is a new user and the first version was...not the best. I thought I got the gist but at the very least I was using enough of their own words that I was pretty confident that it wasn't not what they were saying at least lol
(of course when I made that edit it was also still closed and OP was being responsive so I wasn't worried about getting bad answers in response to a bad edit.)
 
@Rubiksmoose Hopefully it's right ( and I think it is, too.)
 
fingers crossed.
 
Finally got my dual-boot un-dualed.
 
I must admit I was surprised to be able to find a question that was arguably not POB out of it. I thought for sure there was nothing there answerable here.
@kviiri Gave the other one the boot eh?
 
7:46 PM
@Rubiksmoose Aye ;)
I had a Windows 7 installation for waaay too long. I mostly used it for gaming. When I got an SSD I moved my Windows there and put a dual boot Linux on my HDD.
The Windows installation has been acting really slow lately. I mostly play Linux-compatible games anyway and Proton exists so... there's really little reason to even keep the old OS there anymore.
 
7:59 PM
It is always nice to do some fall cleaning. Out with an old useless partition.
 
I'm still winders desktop at home, though at work I'm primarily in linux/unix environments
 
@kviiri I've gotta say I'm pretty happy with windows 10
 
@NautArch it's better than windows 8...
honestly most disappointing thing was that I could no longer trivially make it look like windows 95
 
@NautArch Me too. No real issues with it.
 
Now to see how HoI 4: Kaiserreich runs on it
 
@Rubiksmoose What is the policy on that? I'd actually prefer bad answers to remain up so that folks can see what isn't a good answer as much as what is. If OP wants to delete, let them, but otherwise let the system work.
watching them downvotes, tho
 
@NautArch I mean "delete" is part of the system given that it is an ability we have.
@NautArch This is essentially NAA because it is answering the question without any knowledge of the system. Current policy is to delete those.
(I'm ok with it not getting deleted to but I feel bad for the person. They are going ot have a heap of downvotes if they don't delete soon presumably)
 
@Rubiksmoose well, yeah - now that you called them out here :)
 
(ironically in an attempt to prevent it lol)
 
their other answer also isn't very high quality
 
8:25 PM
@NautArch Half the answers on here are below average!
 
8:41 PM
@ColinGross 99% of Americans have an above average number of legs
 
@ColinGross Better scrap the whole site then
 
9:00 PM
Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
 
@SirCinnamon The average number of legs might be higher than you think, given colloquialisms.
 
@Yuuki American dogs count as Americans, so they bring up the average also, whereas American fish and American snakes drop the average
 
@SirCinnamon you just blew my mind
 
@MikeQ Ah, but politicians are snakes so state and national representatives count twice in the average!
 
@Yuuki They're snakes? Oh no. I didn't realize my snake oil salesman was really a serial killer. rummages
 
9:11 PM
Fun fact: The term "congress" was originally a misspelling of "congers", because the government is run by eels
That's why we have eelections
 
@MikeQ I always thought that was moray joke than real, but you said "fact" so it must be true.
 
@DavidCoffron I know many facts about the Washington eelite
 
@MikeQ I was googling for eel punspiration, but eel larva are SO cute
 
9:35 PM
My name is RubiksMoose and apparently I just answer my own meta questions a lot lol
 
9:56 PM
Hmmm...
> The Deck of Many Animated Things
 
Very cool
 
hey there @JohnCarroll, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 

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