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12:01 AM
The stars point to edit conflict.
 
I thought you got a warning banner that will popup when you did that. Hrm...
@Jacob, BTW, did you get those network masks right in your question?
 
ahh
 
You realize one of the addresses is the network number for a /30, and the other is a broadcast address for a different /30
 
That was an example, @AntoniusBloch wrote the rules IDK what they are but that was an example showing what the guide says
 
And that is why not using real address confuses things.
 
12:10 AM
@Zoredache Boss said not too....
 
I know, but still the point is to make the address valid. So the person looking at your question doesn't get confused by using by seeing you try to assign a broadcast address to an interface.
Anyway, can you ping your public address from the outside?
 
@Zoredache 1 of them
 
But not the other? That seems odd. Are you able to do a tcpdump on the Tomato device? If you ping the non-functioning address do you see the packets arrive?
 
@Zoredache: Edit conflict, I'd guess. Two of the iptables lines were running together so I changed the format of the PRE block. I didn't see any diagram during my edit.
 
12:28 AM
Time to head home.
 
later
 
Is there a trick to running procmon with elevated privileges from a limited account on Win7? A coworker is trying to troubleshoot an application that isn't working on Windows 7 in a non-admin account. It sure would be useful to see that stupid thing the application is trying to do.
 
1:13 AM
Programmers just finished their town hall in case anyone cares :-)
I made a digest, in case anyone cares about the either ;-)
 
 
7 hours later…
8:31 AM
good ${time_of_day}
 
Ben
8:44 AM
You won't rest until that's implemented, will you @Iain?
 
I keep trying and hope
 
8:57 AM
howdy
 
hi chopper3
 
 
2 hours later…
11:25 AM
Standalone Sysadmin
I’m here to shard data and chew bubblegum…
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/standalone-sysadmin/rWoU/~3/t101PRhRGYQ/
 
12:23 PM
Good ${TIME_OF_DAY}, @Iain
 
good $(TIME_OF_DAY} to you too @packs
 
1:08 PM
Some questions sound like a question posed by someone new to system work, then are swarmed by people that discovered some toy to share. Anyone else feel that way? serverfault.com/questions/230592/ssh-server-on-windows
nine times out of ten that question should be answered with, "Don't do that."
It's like asking how to equip your cat with weapons to defend your home as a home security system because you have a cat already and don't want to invest in some fancy "real" security system.
 
hi people
@BartSilverstrim - absolutely, it's always worrying when people think their new toy of the week is the solution to everything but it happens...
 
1:30 PM
good ${time_of_day}
 
@TomOConnor G'day Bruce.
 
G'day Bruce.
 
Hi all, quick question - how do I add a bounty to a question I've asked?
(apologies for the newbie question)
 
@Quog how long ago did you ask?
 
just today - 2 hours ago. Do I have to wait?
 
1:43 PM
and which question is it?
yeah
you have to wait 48 hours?
 
0
Q: IIS7.5 Outbound Rule for lower case URLs in <a href="...">

QuogHi, I know how to canonicalise the case of URLs on incoming request to IIS7.5, in fact, there's a built in rule template to start from. But how about outbound (without changing the code)? This is where I got to so far: <outboundRules> <rule name="Outbound lowercase" preCo...

 
I think..
 
fairy nuff
I'm a bit of a lurker - but I spent 4 hours trying to work this out after work today and it's driving me mad! ;)
(Aust/West GMT+8 timezone if that doesn't make sense to the yanks!)
 
Hi
 
Hey look @TomOConnor, we actually got ourselves Bruce!
G'day, @Quog!
 
1:55 PM
howdy @packs @Ton et al
er, @Tom
/me is waiting for the USA to wake up for an answer to his Q
 
@Quog I am awake but don't know IIS, sorry!
 
no dramas, about to go to bed now anyway, 10pm here
 
3:04 PM
nro.net/news/icann-nro-live-stream <- ICANN/NRO press conference about v4 'exhaustion', for those who are interested.
 
3:14 PM
@MuraliSuriar Anyone else having problems with that stream? It lags for me every several seconds or so.
 
Yeah, it's pretty hosed.
I've switched to the low bandwidth stream.
 
Are they saying the last ipv4 blocks were handed out?
 
yes
They're also talking about world break the internet^W^W^Wipv6 day.
 
@BartSilverstrim The last /8s were handed out to the regional registrars a few days ago
 
I'm actually going to try to participate in the ipv6 day
setting up new network equipment right now
my ISP has promised a clean v6 native feed
I just gotta get finished fighting with RIPE (europe's arin) about my /24 v4 request :(
 
3:21 PM
wow apparently I didn't sign out of this room last night :-x
 
@BartSilverstrim specifically, the last 2 free /8s were handed out to APNIC earlier this week, which left 5 /8s in the free pool. Under a 2004(?) agreement, each RIR is entitled to one of the last /8s.
 
So basically...yeah, they're no longer available.
Oooh...black market for them? Naw...doesn't work that way does it...@#@#%
 
<- is trying to get his ISP to allocate us v6 space. Our systems should be ready for it but we need space with which to test :P
@BartSilverstrim actually it kinda does :)
 
The constant "uh uh uh" from the speakers on the panel are annoying.
 
@BartSilverstrim Yeah, the fact that they're having to speak in their non-native language and translate technical terms on the fly is pretty frustrating :)
 
3:25 PM
I mean in general the "uh" is constant in most people giving talks. Native to language or not. It's an annoying filler.
 
@BartSilverstrim It's not that they're no longer available.
 
You work in a school, no? Go to some student presentations :-)
um...um...um...
 
Each of the RIRs/LIRs still has some inventory.
It's just that the raw supply has been exhausted.
Think of it as the end of sale announcement from a vendor.
You'll still be able to get the hardware from partners, resellers, distributors etc for a while, but no new units will be made.
 
@BartSilverstrim I read a psychological study about those kinds of filler noises at one time, it was pretty interesting. Some kind of unconscious remnant of our brains attempting to perform data lookups or some such.
 
@MuraliSuriar BUT I NEED MY REEL-TO-REEL TAPES! ::cries::
 
3:30 PM
@voretaq7 there's always ebay. :P
 
So if you're "looking up data" you start making weird noises @Packs?
Not you in particular, but in general.
 
@BartSilverstrim As I recall, yeah. It has been several years since I looked at it.
 
I always thought it was a bad habit.
 
It's rather like a twitch.
 
People hate silence.
 
3:31 PM
@MuraliSuriar Ahh, eBay. Tape: $5. Reel: $25. Magnetic coating on the tape: 1.50/LF. Shipping: $150.
 
Eheheheh.
 
One can overcome it with practice and training, but was found to be rather reflexive.
 
Yeah - I had some communication/presentation courses at university.
 
@packs yup. It's supposedly one of the hardest things for speakers to avoid doing. I try pretty hard when I give talks and I still find myself doing it.
 
most habits are reflexive :-)
 
3:33 PM
The advice was to learn to accept silence between sentences, and not to start the next sentence until you know what you're going to say.
 
@MuraliSuriar And, more importantly, to train yourself to be aware of what your body is actually doing.
 
What I remember was that "fillers" were used to keep people from interrupting us, and to keep people from thinking you're "turning the conversation over" as people think a break is a point to interrupt.
 
My broadcasting courses tried to teach us to adopt a sort of persona when speaking, the good ole fashioned Radio Voice (tm). The rest fell out with practice.
 
I've heard nothing about searching for information actually causing the filler.
 
@BartSilverstrim this is part of why the best talks are interactive ones to small/medium groups
 
3:35 PM
@BartSilverstrim The study that I remember is fairly recent, mid 2000s. I can't remember enough useful information about it to figure out any meaningful search terms, unfortunately.
 
The habit I thought came from trying to keep people from thinking you were done and that you hate dead air...silence is golden but annoying to us, I guess.
Unfortunately one of my more aspergian traits is a very strong aversion to hearing "uuuhm um ummmm" from speakers.
I end up deleting podcasts from certain keynote speaker events and such when people give talks who clearly should not be on stage.
If you're not prepped to give talks without constant fillers I can't stand listening to you :-)
 
@BartSilverstrim it is annoying.
 
Unless you're using British accents, maybe. The filler just sounds smarter.
 
Unfortunately, it's sometimes unavoidable.
I work for a company full of really smart engineers.
 
@BartSilverstrim: You need to Umm-canceling headphones :)
 
3:40 PM
Unfortunately, not many of them are trained to give presentations.
 
Was anybody at the “celebration” when they assigned the last five blocks?
 
HA! A black market for IP4...who'd have thought that?!
Oh, yeah, I suggested it.
 
@Synetechinc we've been watching the live stream.
Black market is such a sensationalist term.
 
An opportunity to trade? Isn't that a nice way of saying black market?
 
Why not call it a secondary market?
(i.e. what it is)
black market implies illegality.
Transferring resources between organisations is completely legal.
I've know large companies who buy up smaller companies who requested /16s back when the allocation rules were more lax.
 
3:45 PM
@MuraliSuriar "Black Market" sounds cooler :-D
 
@Murali Suriar, I meant actually there for the ceremony at 9:30am (EST).
 
Well, not me.
 
picture a bunch of networking nerds in the smoky back room of a bar doing IP horse-trading. "I've got a /22 available under 11.12/16. What'll ya give me for it?"
 
Not worth an 8 hour flight. :P
 
Hey, a black-market is possible since people have been shown to be willing to pay for bits; viz Second Life and WoW. :roll:
 
3:47 PM
"You should not notice."
Optimistic. :)
 
Users won't notic@$#%@.....
All of this is necessary so my fridge can get on the Internet to order missing RFID-embedded groceries.
 
Well my ISP (Rogers; the Comcast of Canada) doesn’t—and has stated that it doesn’t intend to for the foreseeable future!—support IPv6.
 
And your socks, so that you can perform autodiscovery and find the missing one
 
The real reason we're switching to ipv6 is to find out how many autistic-spectrum people are in IT, as they're the ones that won't be using address shorthand.
 
I wonder if the ipv6 only free porn site ever came online
 
3:50 PM
@Bart Silverstrim :-P
 
I wonder how @Packs even heard such an announcement. There is one like that?
 
@packs, hey the porn industry has played a critical role in plenty of technological improvements such as VCR/VHS and the Internet itself.
 
@BartSilverstrim At one time, some group was talking about getting one of those setup in order to help convince people to migrate.
 
Just sit rocking at your NOC spouting numbers. Turns out he was just giving addresses of his equipment on the network.
 
@Synetechinc BluRay, etc
 
3:51 PM
IPocalypse! :-D
 
I like that one
 
@Packs: enticing people to switch by putting an IPv6 free porn site online?
 
Hey, Dec.2012 is just around the corner. Why shouldn’t the exhaustion of IPv4 play a part in the beginning of the end of the world?
 
Hey man, no matter what your feelings are on the industry, they're instrumental is many of the technological adoptions of the modern age.
 
There's a wifi provider in Switzerland who provide free v6 access but v4 costs you.
Which I thought was pretty cool.
 
3:53 PM
Interesting idea, but it would have to be quite a super site to get people over...and that would appeal to end users, not the providers that actually have to do the work, no?
 
@BartSilverstrim User demand is often the reason given for slow v6 adoption
 
I wasn't arguing against it, @packs. They drove adoption of home video technologies.
I just thought home users were too ignorant of things like IPv4/6 to actually demand it, let alone call Comcast and request it because they want to get to Sex.V6.com :-)
 
@BartSilverstrim I misread your comments then. Damn you text only interwebs what with your loss of inflection and social cues!
 
Now remembering the Family Guy where Quagmire finds out you can get porn on the internet...
 
Hell no. I love text only. Another aspergian trait. :-)
 
3:55 PM
@BartSilverstrim The marketing campaign to tell people, 'All you could want, just tell em you want ipv6!' would be pretty funny to see
@SmallClanger And then disappears into his room for like 5 days straight? Yeah, that was a nice cutaway
 
I can guarantee that the transition to IPv6 won’t be transparent to everybody. I fully expect ISPs to some day send notices to users that they need to bring in their modems to be exchanged. Rogers has already forced users to upgrade their modems when it upgraded from DOCSIS 1 to 2; they will likely be doing so again when they finally start spending the money we pay to upgrade to DOCSIS 3.
(instead of using the money to buy sports teams)
 
@Synetechinc I wholeheartedly approve of forcing users to upgrade to DOCSIS 3
 
The thing to do is introduce v6-only porn AND v6-only kids flash game sites. They'll request the game sites.
 
Yes, but it will mean a hardware upgrade, which is exactly what will happen when ISPs are forced to migrate to IPv6, regardless of the users’ tech level. What will be interesting is when the ISP tells some people that they must upgrade your OS.
 
Or force Facebook to go v6 only.
 
4:00 PM
(@voretaq7)
 
@BartSilverstrim Can't do flash games. That won't work on iOS devices
 
@Synetechinc it's fairly unlikely that users will need to upgrade their OSes.
XP SP3, Vista, Win 7, and OSX all have IPv6 stacks.
 
I highly doubt that big sites like Facebook or Google would willingly lose customers (en MASSE!) by going IPv6-only.

(@Murali Suriar, I meant for people using Win9x, etc. which are still currently sufficient for using the Inernet.)
 
Agreed - anyone who doesn't have a v6 stack at this point probably isn't running an OS that's officially supported by their ISP anyway
 
@Synetechinc of course not. We're going to run dual-stack for at least a decade.
 
4:02 PM
@Synetechinc The world will be dual-stacked for at least 3-5 years once IPv6 really gets going
 
Maybe, but you don’t need an IPv6 capable OS to install a PCI network card and use IPv4.
 
heh you're more pessimistic than me Murali
 
What happened to the music?
 
@Synetechinc I think anyone using Win9x-vintage hardware is probably not running Win9x on it (probably Linux these days)
 
@voretaq7 While I agree with the assessment that we can ignore people running pre-XP, I do not think that is a fair assumption.
Or rather, my personal experience says otherwise :)
 
4:06 PM
Today's News
TechNet Radio: What the Cloud Means to Microsoft CIO, Tony Scott

Tony Scott, Microsoft CIO is leading the Microsoft IT organization to invest in the cloud. Listen in and find out how it will bring new possibilities and benefits to businesses.
Chris Caldwell
http://bit.ly/h7Z5iP
 
@packs I don't envy your personal experience my friend :)
 
Do you think the big consumer ISPs will resort to carrier NAT before pushing v6 out to customers
 
@SmallClanger Many big consumer ISPs are already NATing.
 
@SmallClanger the biggest consumer IP in the US (AOL) DID resort to carrier NAT
so I'd say yes :)
 
They'll resort to carrier grade NAT, but it will break all sorts of stuff.
Skype, XBox LIVE...
 
4:09 PM
also that's not a bad thing -- @Synetechinc has a point that for a lot of users Win9x is sufficient (email and a browser). For that same class of users NAT or public IP doesn't matter -- their mail and browser work fine.
 
Eventually people will just get bored.
 
Ah, I'm a brit, and I haven't seen much of it over here. Was wondering if it would become more widespread so as to avoid disconnecting the hordes of 15-year old dust factory PCs.
 
Besides, not everybody will (or even can) upgrade to the latest and greatest tech. Not only are there many people in North America with lesser computing needs and less money, but you have to remember that there is a whole world out there. Sure, there is 7 Starter Edition, but many third-world countries use whatever is affordable, even if it’s not up-to-date.
 
@SmallClanger the problem as @MuraliSuriar pointed out is that carrier NAT will break a lot of stuff that defines the "modern" internet -- Great-Grandma is happy with her browser and email, but Grandma these days is using Skype to see the grandkids across the country, and Mom & Dad are playing CoD on the XBox
@Synetechinc and this is part of the reason v4 will be around for a while, but the nature of technology is that eventually investment in legacy equipment won't make sense anymore. The world has to move on if everyone and their toaster wants an internet connection...
 
It's going to get to the point where vendors don't make v4 only gear.
And then, a few tech refresh cycles after that, they'll be making v6 only gear.
 
4:16 PM
Well my toast for one isn’t very social, so I don’t think my toaster needs a connection. My milk on the other hand likes to poke everybody.
 
@synetechinc: you've probably spoiled it.
 
most vendors don't make v4-only gear anymore -- I'm actually surprised our IP phones don't support v6, but they're cheap $50-a-pop units.
 
Given it whey too much leeway with it's internet usage.
 
@Synetechinc we have internet-enabled refrigerators now... not much of a stretch from those to enabling the oven, then the toaster.... It would be eminently useful to me if my roomba had an IP addres so I could connect to it and retrieve it when it gets stuck somewhere.
 
@voretaq7 / @MuraliSuriar - True. Torrenting is going to suffer a fair bit, as well.
 
4:18 PM
Carriers won't care about torrenting.
Oh - maybe they will.
WoW uses BT as a distribution mechanism, doesn't it? :P
 
@voretaq7, retrieve it? If you are physically there, then why would you need an Internet connection?
 
@SmallClanger yup - torrenting (another "modern internet" thing) pretty much requires a public IP
 
@MuraliSuriar It does indeed. Some media sites also use BT for their video.
 
@MuraliSuriar WoW does, and a lot of operating systems use BT to distribute larger upgrades these days.
 
It's like the porn thing. Everyone will pretend it's of no interest, but it'll who'd want to be the only ISP that doesn't let people torrent?
 
4:19 PM
One of LimeLight's distribution methods is bittorrent, as is some of the BBC video streaming (iirc)
 
That's distribution between their content delivery nodes though.
Not to end users, I thought?
 
@Synetechinc I own a Roomba because I'm lazy. Why should I have to crawl under my couch with a broom handle when I could theoretically connect to it with a web browser (or custom client even) and steer it out manually?)
 
Just what we need, IP enabled Roombas. Some zombied-bot hackers will crack them and we'll have an army of them hit the highway to attack a business as a physical DOS attack.
 
Their content delivery nodes are going to have to be on public address space anyway, by definition.
 
@MuraliSuriar That's a negative.
 
4:21 PM
@voretaq7, oh, steer it out. When you said stuck, I thought you meant physically jammed.
 
LimeLight had two end-user distribution systems.
 
Oh, interesting.
 
One is a traditional client-server. The other is client-client-server bit torrent.
 
Does it rely on users having a plugin installed then?
 
@MuraliSuriar You betcha.
 
4:21 PM
Fair enough.
I'd not heard of that.
 
most often my roomba gets "virtually stuck" (backs into a corner somehow and can't figure out how to get out, so it shuts down and waits for help)
 
@MuraliSuriar During the Obama inauguration if you hit CNN you got either Akamai or LimeLight (not sure how they figured out which one) and if you got LimeLight you received a popup that basically said, "If you want the best video performance, install this plugin. Trust us, it's cool."
 
HA HA your Roomba's stupid.
 
it's good about not getting into impossible situations, it just gives up too easily
dude this roomba must have been lobotomized at the factory :)
It also manages to eject its dust bin on its own sometimes. I'll come home and the roomba is on the charging dock with its dust bin like 5 feet away in the middle of the floor :)
 
Wait until the Roomba gets it own IP address on the Internet and you wake up to have it watching you from the foot of the bed in the middle of the night.
 
4:24 PM
 
... or your cat mysteriously vanishes one day.
 
I already have a fish to watch me in the middle of the night. It's actually kinda sweet in a creepy "If I had legs I'd climb out and try to eat you" sort of way
 
As long as your fish isn't framing you for murder.
 
Given your name having "vore" in the line, that's kind of fitting for that comment, @voretaq7
 
heh
at least the fish has learned that the tank-cleaning equipment isn't food
 
4:26 PM
My cup could use an Internet connection to update my Facebook status: Alec is… 5/7 finished drinking his instant coffee.
 
no useful would be my cup talking to my coffee pot
which checks the current level of coffee if it is low and i have less than 1/2 a cup left start brewing more
f that facepage noise :)
 
@Synetechinc instant... coffee?
Heathen.
 
That was just an example.
:)
 
Instant coffee is only suitable for use as a film developer. And even then the real stuff works better.
 
I was just trying to make a sardonic comment about the frivolity of status updates. :-P
(and their unnecessary detail)
Isn't there a a StackExchange site for coffee in Area51?
 
4:31 PM
don't think so
 
I misread @syn's question...was thinking about IP-connected coffee machines in the real area 51 that "doesn't exist."
"@Bob just dissected an alien!" /update
 
Wow, if the military were wasting tax-dollars on developing iCoffee machines, then America’s economy is in real trouble.
 
@Synetechinc listen the boys at DARPA need something to do...
 
I need a web enabled phone.
@voretaq7: that would so suck for people in the witness protection program.
 
4:48 PM
@BartSilverstrim hey, if I get my latte and my news when I walk in the door what do I care if some guy gets his kneecaps shot out for snitching on the mob? :-)
 
I meant more like if you were the one that snitched and needed the new identity...only to have your coffee maker give you away.
 
I suppose you could just get a new RFID tag - it's not like they're implanted at birth (yet)
 
5:04 PM
People are lazy. There's bound to be something they overlook or just never get around to changing.
 
5:36 PM
Someday when Windows boots the bootup chime will be a deep bass voice booming, "I am Shiva, destroyer of worlds..." @$#%^!
Stupid Win7...stupid old installers...
/bangs head on table
 
5:48 PM
What did Windows do to you now?
 
@voretaq7, isn't existing enough?
 
@Zoredache true
 
stupid installer. Told it to run as administrator.
still told me it needed administrator access to a folder despite running as administrator.
 
it wants to be run as LocalSystem
:)
 
Then it stuck icons on the running user's desktop.
:-/
Stupid windows.
And I couldn't copy it to the all user's desktop folder. No permission from a remote system (\\machine\c$\path...)
Stupid Windows 7.
Stupid installer.
/bangs head on desk
 
5:55 PM
deploying beta software into the production environment... because I trust this particular vendor that much (and because it didn't blow up in dev :-).
 
Ben
6:08 PM
What's the general thought on this.. a comment to your answer improves the answer in such a manner that it really ought to have been included in the answer in the first place. Is it acceptable to edit the answer to include the commenter's information, or is that considered rep-theft?
0
A: Apache HTTPD: Allow users in htpasswd OR LDAP with specific group

BenAlso, with a valid AuthzLDAP setup, it's possible to restrict based on attributes Require ldap-filter &(eduPersonPrimaryAffiliation=*Staff) or Require ldap-filter &(memberof=CN=group,OU=unit,DC=container)

 
The the person really wanted REP they would have provided their own answer. In my opinion it is fine to update a answer to be more correct based on comments that are left. To be polite, you can mention the person's contribution in your edited version.
 
I think getting good answers is the most important issue. As for "rep theft", you don't get rep for comments and people can upvote as many answers as they like in the same question so you're not cutting anyone's air off. Just be polite and thank the contributor for helping improve the answer
2
 
Hide yo' rep!
 
@Ben generally speaking if someone makes a comment that really improves my answers (or makes me rethink a section) I'll edit and add that in after a bar, mentioning who suggested the change. If it's a deletion I'll <s></s> the text
 
Yeah, voretaq7 is on the right track here. "As @joeBob23 said in the comment..."
 
6:14 PM
oh yeah
 
Ben
Thanks room
 
I had to just edit one of TomTom's answers, it hurt my brain to read. How does someone who rushes through all of their answers have so much rep
 
oh my.. don't go there
 
@DanBig because kind souls like you edit them and make them coherent :-D
 
The system tends to reward for quantity, over quality.
 
6:21 PM
I can sometimes understand rushing to answer the low hanging fruit, but still!
 
You can post a lot of answers, and since upvotes are +1-, and downvotes are only -2, and many people ignore answers that aren't wrong, the chance of loosing rep from providing a quick-n-dirty answer is very small.
Still, I don't get some of the miss-spellings. Does he not have a spell-checker in his browser?
 
There's a lot to not understand in his posts. At least he's stopped calling people idiots on a daily basis
 
Ben
If the member's upvoted more often, I think quality might catch up..
 
well, certainly slowed that down at least
 
@Ben definitely -- I'm more critical of answers from people at or above say 2000 rep
 
6:24 PM
@Ben I agree but its the way the site is, I guess. Most people are focussed on solving their problems rather than improving the site.
 
Ben
Hrm I think it's time to change my name :P
 
Evening Ben
 
Ben
Evening
 
@Zoredache: There's irony in your spelling question :-)
 
@RobertMoir My biggest problem with SF is when someone gives an answer that only works in one particular variant of an OS -- I try to give broadly applicable answers whenever possible
 
6:25 PM
Please fix any errors of mine you see. I am far from perfect. I started answering lots of questions on forums many years ago, in an effort to improve my writing ability.
 
I meant in your question.
:-)
loosing vs. losing :-)
I only pick on you because you can't read my email yet. :-D
 
@Voretaq7 - answering for just one version of something... that's not so bad if someone asks about "Windows 2008 SP2 with the following patches installed" but yeah, not so good when people assume everyone is doing it their way
 
Ah, but that is not miss-spelled. What someone needs to invent is intention-checker
 
Ben
@Ben.. I have plans to change mine.. but I have to wait a month!
didn't mean to stomp on you..
 
Well, that and I'm a pedantic ass. But you're right. That's why there's even more irony in the question!
 
Ben
6:27 PM
@Ben (yeek this is confusing) it's cool - I've just changed mine
 
hehe
 
@RobertMoir It's more the unix questions "How do I do X" -> "Oh, use tool Y" where Tool Y doesn't exist on {BSD, Solaris, SCO, AIX, HP-UX}
 
Something that reads my mind and highlights errors where I use a homonym improperly, or mix up its, or something. I tend to do that frequently. Loose/Lose is something I never get right.
 
Ben
Ewwwww that looks weird! I don't particularly like seeing my full name. Don't quite know why though
 
I never understood the loose/lose issue. So many people get them mixed up,...why?
 
6:28 PM
Well now, that is certainly an issue. Just a change of how the answer is framed: "Well I'm running OSX and the command line options for top that I have are...." as opposed to "here are the command line switches for top"
well the English language is often a bit loose on how stuff is pronounced and taught, so its easy to lose your way.
 
Besides intention checkers could be dangerous. Especially when a female joins into a group of geeks online. "What you meant to say was,..."
 
@RobertMoir I don't mind if the question says "I'm on [this OS], how do I do [task]", it just bugs me when I see blatant linux-isms in reply to a generic "unix" question
Mostly because when I get new junior admins I have to un-train their blatant linux-isms (BSD shop)
 
definitely, that's what I'm saying... assume that you're running what I'm running
grin that sounds familiar. I first came across Linux in an IBM mainframe environment that had AIX and SCO Unix (yeah it was a while ago) so we had first hand examples of how things were different
 
@BartSilverstrim, perhaps not an intention checker. It would be nice if there was a way to have your spell checker highlight words that are commonly miss-used. A slight highlight would be a reminder to check that you are using the words correctly.
 
or just give good generic advice (sure you can view your network configuration using system-config-network, but ifconfig will work everywhere)
 
6:37 PM
It would probably be too difficult to do that
indeed
 
I'd say the problem is the OP didn't state what they're running...no?
 
to a degree yeah
 
@BartSilverstrim sometimes yes (like if they're asking for ps flags), but a lot of the time it's some common task where there's a generic unix-y way and an OS-specific way
 
but there are people that have only seen one *nix variant out there and assume that every *nix looks like that
 
system-config-network (or looking at the appropriate rc file(s)) vs. ifconfig for viewing IP configuration is my favorite canonical example.
 
6:40 PM
Even linux tends to be different from distro to distro. There are answers that are very specific to Debian-based, or Redhat based distros.
 
It's not unreasonable to assume an OS as Linux if it's an unspecified unix-y OS in the question, given the popularity...
 
...but it is unreasonable to assume it's Redhat, or Debian, or SuSe
 
uh huh
 
and like @Zoredache pointed out there are pretty wide differences between distros, but the "generic unix-y way" works on upwards of 99% of them (and on the BSDs, Solaris, AIX, etc.)
 
You betcha. Which is why I tend to phrase answers like, "This is how you'd do it from the command line, but your distro's persistent config tools will be different."
I get to do that a lot on bridging questions.
 
6:43 PM
@sysadmin1138 I do that a lot on most questions -- or more often if it's something where flags are different I'll just say "You want to use tools X, Y and Z -- here's an example. See the man pages for X, Y and Z for more details"
my expectation is if you're good enough to be on ServerFault (doing this "professionally") you should be able to read a manpage and generalize from my specific example. :-)
 
that's reasonable
 
Also, is linux-isms really what you are talking about, or is it more gnu-isms?
 
@Zoredache mmm, I guess both but more GNU-isms (You don't see many kernel-parameter-tweaking questions that don't specify the kind of OS you're using)
but to be fair I get just as annoyed when I see BSD-specific stuff that won't work in Linux :)
 
When it comes to tools, I admit I frequently assume the GNU tools over BSD and other variants. The GNU tools can be installed on your BSD box with a bit of effort.
 
and I'm tolerant of stuff like "use wget" because even though it's not in my BSD base system I install it routinely
Where one tool (usually GNU) has a superset of functionality I try to assume the lowest common denominator and give a solution that will work on both platforms.
I'll admit I don't always succeed (I've encountered machines without egrep before, but often I'll give egrep-style regular expressions because... well they're less painful :-)
 
6:49 PM
well see you all in a while
 
7:01 PM
Does anyone know of a good quick reference table that translates the ssh client options to the syntax you would use in a ssh configuration file?
 
Ben
@Zoredache other than the ssh_config man page?
 
@Zoredache you mean like the -O options? They're mostly identical I think, sshd_config has the details tho
 
I am reading the ssh man page, and the ssh_config man page. I am looking for the equivalent of the -N option.
 
@Zoredache hmmm, I don't know if -N has a config-file equivalent
 
So -A, and -a translate to ForwardAgent (on|off). I was kinda hoping someone had a nice table. that had every command line option and the equivalent configuration option
@voretaq7, I am reading through the man pages you may be right since I am not seeing anything. Though I don't understand why there wouldn't be a config option.
 
Ben
7:06 PM
ProxyCommand ssh -N
 
@Ben I'm not sure about that... ProxyCommand is supposed to set up a pipe basically (between your SSH client and some remote ssh server port) isn't it? Or am I misunderstanding its purpose?
 
Ben
@voretaq7 right.. I am mistaken, and you are correct
 
(I've never actually used that option :-)
 
which option -N, or ProxyCommand? ProxyCommand is extremely useful.
 
Ben
I use it quite often to "tunnel" through to servers
most often, like so: ProxyCommand ssh bcodding@jump1.ed.edu nc %h 22
 
7:16 PM
@Ben I usually just chain ssh "ssh..." :)
 
@voretaq7, chaining doesn't help much if you want to use scp to copy something from a remote system you have to go through an intermediate server to access.
 
@Zoredache true - for those I go ghetto & use uuencode/uudecode :-)
 
Ben
if you use a ControlMaster setting for the jump box, you can save quite a bit of connections
 
we typically only have one jump box (the monitor/management host at whatever site we're connecting to)
 
Hello everyone
 
7:22 PM
howdy
 
0
Q: nginx caching ass reverse proxy

John ThompsonAm I caching right? is there any way i can improve this? the site gets about 3k unique hits a day nginx.conf: gzip_types text/* application/* image/*; open_file_cache max=1000 inactive=20s; open_file_cache_valid 30s; open_file_cache_min_uses 2; open_file_cache_errors off; if_modif...

 
7:53 PM
@RobertMoir serverfault.com/questions/218005/… The OP came back!
@Jacob reminds me of this xkcd.com/37
 
And his update kinda wrecked the generic question
 
rollback?
Actually
he never said he rebuilt the server..
 
Maybe. Jeff merged 2 other 'my server has been hacked' questions into this because it was asked in a pretty generic fashion.
 
so if it got rooted, i'll bet money it still is
 
@TomOConnor But he fixed the glitch.... It's all clean now. Really.
 
7:56 PM
im trying to run a hello world python script automatically on apache server, when you open the default index.html page, but i can't figure out how to enable it to run automatically
can someone please help me with this ?
 
It may not have been rooted...
 
I am able to run the script if i point to it directly
 
@Mods, should a roll-back be done on this question (serverfault.com/questions/218005/…), which before the update was pretty generic?
3
 
@brainydexter I suggest that you write it up on a question, and then if we answer, it's an answer that could help others too, as the main site gets better indexing than the chatlogs
 
7:59 PM
@Tom: thanks
il post one right now
 
@brainydexter you can post the question link in here if you want..
 
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