The Factory Floor

12:06 AM

Sigh

12:33 AM

Amazing how I'm used to seeing vote counts now.

Every time I go on Writing or Conlang or Seasoned Advice, I'll go to click a vote tally . . . and sigh with disappointment because it won't show :(

Worldbuilding Meta

5:54 AM

0

Q: Request for Clarification: Real World Questions Requirement of Context

This was originally an answer to the real-world questions discussion. Consider the example of this question. L.Dutch said in a comment to the referenced question, "I am missing the worldbuilding element in your question, it sounds like a hobby bob question, and as such better suited for the ded...

Secespitus

8:16 AM

@Aify I summon thee :D

dot_Sp0T

herllo

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Good morning

This real-world debate is frustrating.

dot_Sp0T

9:02 AM

@Secespitus want to talk about it?

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T I did

But thanks.

dot_Sp0T

oh that is a lot

:/

I will def have to dig into that subject somewhen soon I fear

Secespitus

I finally got completely dragged into this...

dot_Sp0T

Read the post, you can feel how you let your rage flow into it

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Be careful: as soon as you step into it there is no way back :D

dot_Sp0T

9:12 AM

like a good Sith

I know that you've read my mod questionnaire. so you know my stance :D

I won't deviate from it

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Yeah, I think this is the closest to a rant I've written on this site so far. Not exactly a good thing I guess...

dot_Sp0T

it's alright - it show that you're less German than you claim to be

you got feelings

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Oh no, what have I done?!? :D

dot_Sp0T

you've showed weakness, now wait for the snarks (this shoulda been a wordplay on sharks, but sadly replacing the single letter doesn't indicate this well enough...)

Secespitus

Let them come...

dot_Sp0T

9:18 AM

yuck

@Secespitus what are your thoughts on the question you've just edited? In my opinion this is a simple matter of research. One would google about high oxygen and humans, would find out about divers and their oxygen tanks, from that one could start making conclusions, research into constant exposure... and from that eventually form a question if still necessary

Or one just searches on the site first, great duplicate find by LDutch

Sorry, meant raditz

Secespitus

9:39 AM

It's a duplicate and I voted as such

dot_Sp0T

11:49 AM

@Secespitus sorry been off for lunch; another question (which I oughta have submitted for the mod debate): How do you stand to the statement that "An edit by a high-rep user implies validity & rightness to any question"?

Secespitus

That is simply false. I believe something like that happened at some point with one of my edits. I edited a question, went away because I didn't have the time to carefully review it and write corresponding comments and there were some comments already. Someone then proceeded to write something like "This has already been edited by a mod so it must be on-topic."
It was funny, because I am not a mod, but also weird, because if I am a high-rep user that mainly edits (and I am such a person) then me editing something is by no means a statement for the question being on-topic or the answer being…

Are you thinking of any specific instances where this has happened? So far the one incident was the only time I have consciously seen something like that.

And as you are a candidate yourself: What's your stance on the topic?

dot_Sp0T

12:05 PM

It's just something psychologic. The fact that someone with experience and reputation on the site did work on a post that has no negative connotation lends the post validity. I totally agree with you that this is not the intent behind the edits; but it's what it seems to come across as for new users, and sometimes for me as well - even though it is not intended as such.

Hence I do not edit questions which I think should rather be put on hold / closed - at least before they are put on hold; I rather make a comment explaining how it should be edited in my opinion.

I see it as one of the topics where not doing it gives a much better result than starting to explain that the edit does simply not mean what people interpret. It's another issue with reputation based systems, and examples

Secespitus

Personally I prefer to edit before it's being put on hold as editing sends the question to the review queue - and I don't want their automatic chance for getting into the queue to be wasted with typo fixes. And that's a very big part of what I am doing.

Also, it may just be that I simply haven't seen this as a big problem so far. I can remember exactly one instance where this was thought by one user to be a problem. Of course now I have two instances, but if you can direct me to some more I'd be inclined to re-evaluate my strategy, which possibly means changing it if I perceive it as a drastic problem that needs to be addressed.

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus that is another issue with the system

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T That other users edits can send a question to the reopen review queue?

dot_Sp0T

I think it's something that might be worth going to the mother-meta with; or at least evaluating on here with a group of higher rep users and similar

@Secespitus that the automatic chance is wasted upon multiple edits

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T I'd say it would be good if only the author themselves could "automatically" send the question to the reopen queue with an edit. That would be an improvement, though I can't produce any numbers.

dot_Sp0T

12:12 PM

@Secespitus that woudl definitely be an improvement to the edit issue

I think what also would be nice were, if edits did not show so prominently who did the edit, but rather how much was edited - to put it into relation

Secespitus

It would reduce the amount of concerns-not-addressed recently-edited stuff in the reopen review queue.

@dot_Sp0T Now you are referring to the little icon next to the author that says "edit x minutes ago", right?

dot_Sp0T

yeah

basically when I look at a question it just springs into my face; and when I (and I assume others) see that it was already edited, by someone known on the site, I instinctively assume that they think the question is fine/in order

Secespitus

I am not so sure about that. Sometimes typo fixes can be very important and sometimes there is just a "big edit" because you need to change the order of words.

dot_Sp0T

which is defo a bias

Secespitus

Sometimes a word might be enough to clarify something. I am not sure if the amount is a good metric.

dot_Sp0T

12:16 PM

but a widespread one I think - would have to do some meta post to find out how others see it; and then formulate it such that there's no question bias involved (as in people just agreeing or disagreeing based on the questioner or form it was written)

Secespitus

A one-word edit message might be good where you choose from "grammar", "punctuation", "clarification", ...

@dot_Sp0T You can try the Sandbox :D

dot_Sp0T

ooh enforcing edit messages - that's a toughy

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T No, just an extra one-word-message to display prominently instead of your proposed size

dot_Sp0T

I usually roll-back edits I see that somehow change the question without explaining why they did it as a comment.... I also roll back almost any edits on my Qs that don't explain why they happened

@Secespitus categorization? that might be a very cool improvement indeed

Secespitus

I try to write an edit message whenever I edit something, though most of the time it's "Fixed capitalization" and "Fixed typos". But especially with bigger edits it's important and far too many people are forgetting it in my opinion.

dot_Sp0T

12:19 PM

@Secespitus just saying 'Capitals', 'Typos', 'Better wording' - is all fine to me; it beats the hell out of 'Added 12 characters to body'

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T The best is when you have something like "3 characters removed" and then they realized in the grace period that some words are missing and suddenly you have "3 characters removed", but an extra sentence :D

Personally I'd prefer to make it required as it is for <2k rep users. Or only allow the automatic message for your own posts.

dot_Sp0T

that'd be a good start

FoxElemental

1:09 PM

@Secespitus I usually say "Copyediting" for grammar/spelling/punctuation/capitalization/that sorta stuff plus whatever else relevant, like image resizing, spoiler formatting, link embedding, title editing, whatevs.

dot_Sp0T

1:28 PM

@FoxElemental that is still better than nothing at all

Secespitus

@FoxElemental Copyediting is not specific enough in my personal opinion. But really, everything is better than the standard "x characters added", because that doesn't tell you anything about what kind of changes you did.

"Copyediting" at least tells me that there are no changes to the content.

dot_Sp0T

Another thing that bothers me to some extent on the site is that it encourages you to bulk edits together. E.g. if I wanna fix two things with a question: A) the spelling; B) rewrite a whole paragraph to better catch the meaning implied by comments and whatnot; I will either have to wait some 10min between edits, or cluster these 2 very different things into one edit

When on the edit queue I often say no to edits that fix glaring spelling mistakes but also change the whole meaning of a sentence, because while the former is great, the latter is poo

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T I like the grace period. It happens quite regularly that I find another typo after hitting "submit".

@dot_Sp0T Do you just reject or reject and edit to fix the first stuff?

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus Me too! I wish though I could indicate that this should be another edit

@Secespitus the latter

AndyD273

So physics random thought... Dark matter only interacts with baryonic matter through gravity, which should mean that gravity also affects it. So could we use a black hole to try to finally detect dark matter, since it should fall in at the same proportional rate as normal matter, and since dark matter is 4 times as common as regular matter in the universe, there should be at least 4 times as much falling into the black hole (local densities being equal).

dot_Sp0T

1:36 PM

@Secespitus I often even go the extra mile of approve & edit, to give the original user the rep they would've gotten for the edit

@AndyD273 no

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T Elaborate

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Then you get lots of edits in the revision history. A way to manually discern between "just forgot a typo" and "this be different" would be nice in such a case

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 I am just messing with you - I don't understand any of what you just asked

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T Thats fair

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus maybe an explicit checkbox to say: THIS IS EDIT IS NO AMENDMENT TO THE PREVIOUS

@AndyD273 wanna enlighten me? Would love to learn new things

Secespitus

1:38 PM

@AndyD273 Read, but sadly not understood. Sorry.

Hosch250

@AndyD273 Sounds roughly correct. The hard part sounds like the actual measurement of it.

Of course, I'm not a physicist or have any professional training.

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T The question is: is it worth it? Personally I'd say it's a nice addition, but I am not sure how to pitch this as a real benefit to the SE staff.

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus it's definitively only a small usability improvement; and the potential of abusing it overweighs the benefits

It's also really just an issue on a site with a fast turnaround. E.g. on gamedev.se you can easily just wait with your second edit

Bellerophon

@AndyD273 Is it likely that local densities are equal?

HDE 226868

@AndyD273 It might be difficult. Dark matter particles likely don't interact collisionally with each other, meaning it's hard to dissipate momentum and energy. Therefore, they're unlikely to form a disk around a black hole in the same way that gas and plasma would, and so it would be harder to accrete them.

AndyD273

1:44 PM

@dot_Sp0T Apparently there isn't enough mass in the universe to keep galaxies from flying apart. Basically we're missing 80% of the universe. No one can find it. But from the way that things move, and the fact that galaxies don't fly apart, it looks like the gravity is still there, meaning the mass is still there. We just can't see it, or detect it in any way. Hense the name "dark matter" because it doesn't interact with light (or anything else, except gravity).

So if this dark matter affects galaxies with its gravity, then the reverse should be true, and the gravity from normal matter (like black holes) should attract the dark matter too(?).

@Bellerophon I don't know. Seems like they should be able to model it based on observable effects

There are galaxies that show evidence of less dark matter than others.

But at an average 80%-20% ratio, there should still be more dark matter than normal matter, even on the low end of the curve

Hosch250

Well, the way I could see the experiment going is A) calculate the mass of the black hole at point A. B) calculate the non-dark-matter mass going into the black hole per time unit. C) calculate the mass of the black hole N time units later. Does it match the estimate for dark matter?

HDE 226868

Dark matter density locally is what, 10^-21 kg/m^3? Something like that. I would guess that it would be higher near the black hole. That said, any (baryonic) accretion disk or infalling (baryonic) matter would likely me much more dense. So . . . I don't think that dark matter would be absorbed at the same rate as normal matter. There's a lot of dark matter, but it isn't necessarily dense; the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is . . . large. A lot larger than the galactic disk.

For comparison, the interstellar medium density is something like 10^-23 kg/m^3. Again, though, I'd bet the gas would be denser in a disk.

AndyD273

@HDE226868 But they would still be attracted by gravity, and unless it's traveling faster than escape velocity outside of the event horizon it'll eventually be captured and fall in. Or at least clump up there.

HDE 226868

@AndyD273 It should be, yes.

dot_Sp0T

2:01 PM

@AndyD273 That is the first time that I understand the term dark matter; so it's about matter that cannot be seen

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T basically yes. It's dark in the same way that a black hole is black.

I think it should be called Ninja Matter instead of Dark Matter...

Hosch250

@AndyD273 Here I am; oh wait, jk.

dot_Sp0T

What about dork matter? As it's as elusive as nerds were once upon a time?

Hosch250

@dot_Sp0T The real nerds I know are still elusive. Odds are, you don't know a real nerd when you see one because they mask it so well.

Pop-culture "nerds", on the other hand, they don't know anything except who played Darth Vader in 19xx, and you can tell them from a mile away.

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 that's why the comparison works, innit?

Hosch250

2:15 PM

Yep.

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 I don't even know who played darth vader

Hosch250

But you said "once upon a time" :)

@dot_Sp0T Me either.

dot_Sp0T

I honestly don't know about most actors

:D

Hosch250

Heck, I've never even watched a Star Wars with Darth Vader. I watched the Clone Wars one, and that's it.

dot_Sp0T

oh you missed out then; they're great

Hosch250

2:16 PM

Busy with RotK in LotR.

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 the movie or the book?

Hosch250

Movie. Book is better, though.

2

dot_Sp0T

How long does it take you to watch a movie in general? (As a percentage of the actual length of the movie)

HDE 226868

@Hosch250 "Book is better" - I very much like you.

Hosch250

If I'm sick, I'll watch a couple hours straight. Otherwise, I usually only watch an hour or so at a time.

Secespitus

2:20 PM

@Hosch250 Book is always better.

3

dot_Sp0T

So to watch any LotR movie you'd take about 1600% of the movie's running time?

(3 watching sessions, each at ~1h; over the space of 3 days)

I usually consume media in parallel to playing video-games (preferably of the genre of FPS, or similar; because I def have no spare capacity when playing RTS games - unless they evolve into a rote)

AndyD273

@Hosch250 So are you and RotK exclusive, or can you see other movies on the side?

Hosch250

@AndyD273 No, one movie at a time.

I'm not much of a movie person.

AndyD273

I don't have a steady movie at the moment. I kind of like playing the field. Some might say I have a fear of commiting to a single movie to watch for the rest of my life, but honestly I just haven't found the right one yet.

Hosch250

I own the LotR trilogy.

We got through FotR and TT over the past couple weeks.

We have one more night of RotK.

AndyD273

2:26 PM

I mostly rent my movies. I kind of prefer the one night stand experience. There are just so many hot movies out there, especially this time of year. I mean, you could spend weeks just working through the Marvel catalog.

Hosch250

My siblings are doing it.

I need to pirate Top Gun soon.

dot_Sp0T

I prefer having very intense encounters with a lot of movies rather than watching them regularly. So I often end up watching movies only two or three times a month, but then as many as I can manage before I get tired.

AndyD273

@Hosch250 so you like it dirty, huh?

I may be taking this metaphor too far...

dot_Sp0T

Though I quite often end up coming back to my regular films, rewatching them, knowing every inch of them by heart.

AndyD273

I very rarely watch a movie twice in a 5 year span, unless I'm watching it with someone else, or I somehow missed bits the first time.

dot_Sp0T

2:38 PM

I've never watched a movie with someone else. I always enjoy them on my own. Just me and the movie. Haven't yet found someone with whom I would watch a movie - or who'd watch one with me I guess.

FoxElemental

Invisalign: 34 Me: 20 Tray: 3 of 60

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental still not getting what you are trying to say with these comments

FoxElemental

@Hosch250 BLASPHEMY! The movies are better. You know, books are almost always better, except for LOTR

@dot_Sp0T Sympathy? And a historical record

AndyD273

@FoxElemental Is that a score? Looks like you need to git gud. YOu should not be beaten by dental appliances.

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental of what, what do these words and numbers mean

Hosch250

2:42 PM

@FoxElemental Books are always better. Unless the movie came first.

FoxElemental

@Andy yes, a score

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 the lotr books are a terrible drag

Hosch250

@dot_Sp0T I should flag that.

dot_Sp0T

@Hosch250 try me

FoxElemental

@dot Yes, it's a score of the Invisalign vs Me

dot_Sp0T

2:43 PM

@FoxElemental what is invisaling?

FoxElemental

@Hos Yes. Books are great, always better. I love books. But LOTR is the exception

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T So is the ending of the movie.

FoxElemental

@dot wait, you don't know?

it's . . . oh just google it :)

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 it's still a more enjoyable experience than reading how the hobbits left The Shire

Hosch250

@FoxElemental Nope.

FoxElemental

2:43 PM

brb

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental why would I ask otherwise?

AndyD273

At least in the book they get to route Saruman out of the Shire. A little more action

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental I did and it shows pictures of perfect teeth, I assume that it's not that because I can't make the link between a score and perfect teeth

@AndyD273 oh yeah, some very good bits of the books are missing from the movies. e.g. Tom Bombadil

AndyD273

@dot_Sp0T It's like braces. Apparently @FoxElemental is having trouble getting them in (or out)

dot_Sp0T

But then again, the books have passages that make everything else more enjoyable

Like when the Hobbits leave The Shire

The version I personally prefer the most is LotR:BfME2

AndyD273

2:49 PM

I'm playing through Shadow of Mordor right now. It seems to have all the best elements of Assassin's Creed, without the weird mythology stuff

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 yuck, I never liked that game

AndyD273

3:04 PM

@dot_Sp0T My eldest does. She won't let me play it unless she's there. But she also gets weirdly worked up about it.

@AndyD273 teen?

9

good luck

heh

"Why are you crying now??" -- me, daily

dot_Sp0T

yeah you shouldn't ask that; you should be asking what you can do

Asking why somebody is crying is telling them: I do not think you should be crying; grow up; this behaviour is unacceptable; get real; etc.

AndyD273

3:11 PM

@dot_Sp0T Oh, I do that too.

But seriously, should a 9yo be crying because her sister won't let her pick the movie this one time? Grow up is a legitimate criticism when the 5yo is acting more mature.

It's mostly hormones I'm sure, but if she can't figure out how to rise above them, she's going to have a hard time of it when things get real

James

@AndyD273 You must be talking about your girl. With boys is just "Why are you being an @ss now?!"

AndyD273

@James Yeah, only daughters.

FoxElemental

3:31 PM

@Andy not trouble getting them in or out, just alignment pain

@dot they

are called invisalign for a reason. They look like retainers, but perfectly clear and about 1/2 mm thick

fit perfectly

hurt a lot on day 1

@hos then we agree to disagree

Wondering what I should Jamalize next

Or, since we're here on Worldbuilding, what I should Secespitize next

Secespitus

@FoxElemental "Secespitize"?

FoxElemental

@Sece yes. Secespitization is like Jamalization: Editing of a post, for the nobby types

You should be proud!

Secespitus

3:47 PM

@FoxElemental I've never heard the term "Jamalization". But okay, happy editing :D

FoxElemental

Thank you :)

Apparantly it's a Code Review meme

58

A: What's a Zombie? And what are the many other memes of Code Review?

Meme: Jamalized Originator: Jamal ♦ (actually, apparently me) Cultural Height: All over CR (see this chat transcript search) Background: Jamal being a frantic editor. And he's fast. So fast, we're all waiting for the day he will edit a bad question title before it's even posted. You never know...

Secespitus

@FoxElemental Well, that guy has 25.000 edits. It will take me some time to get to that level.

18

Q: The many memes of Worldbuilding

This was inspired by The Many Memes of Meta and The many memes of scifi.stackexchange. This is something I thought of a couple months ago, but decided to wait to actually propose. I'll quote the post on Meta: Catchphrases and concepts that spread from person to person are known as memes, whi...

discussion

FoxElemental

@Sece But you try!

OOh should I post an answer to that? No, better wait. . .

Secespitus

@FoxElemental That was not my intention

FoxElemental

I've seen it before, though

Secespitus

3:50 PM

I merely wanted to point you to something you might be interested in reading.

Please don't try to make "Secespitalization" a thing...

FoxElemental

Seen it. But once the term "Secespitized" is used more, I'll answer it

with that

tization, not talization

Secespitized

It has a nice ring, don't you think? "Secespitus Secespitized a post by Secespitization."

@Secespitus Why not?

Secespitus

@FoxElemental Even I have trouble reading that :D

FoxElemental

Secepitized, then?

AndyD273

I wonder who has the most edits on WB in actuality.

Secespitus

Please, just say "editing"

@AndyD273 Vincent

@AndyD273 worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/…

FoxElemental

3:56 PM

But Vincitized doesn't have the same ring (no offense to @Vincent.)

AndyD273

Secepitized sounds like a wound that has gone really really bad. Probably going to lose the leg.

2

Secespitus

1542 compared to my 1478

FoxElemental

@Andy that's . . . not a very nice description

Secespitus

@FoxElemental But he's right :D

FoxElemental

All right. No one has to say Secepitized/Secespitized if they don't want to. You can opt out. But I may use it from time to time as "very thoroughly/quickly edited." Truce?

Secespitus

3:59 PM

Please don't

I feel honoured, but it sounds really, really weird.

FoxElemental

All right. But editing is a boring term. What else could we use?

Secespitus

I am just imagining some new users stumbling upon this room while you are talking about secespitalizing their post...

2

FoxElemental

Oh god I see what you mean

Secespitus

Please don't start that :D

AndyD273

from Latin septicus "of or pertaining to putrefaction," from Greek septikos "characterized by putrefaction," from sepein "make rotten or putrid, cause to rot" (see sepsis).

FoxElemental

4:01 PM

So now it's a threat? "If you don't eat your vegetables/refine your question, I'll Secespitalize you!"

How sad

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental I know the term retainers from videogames, describing part of an army - I don't think that's what you mean tho?

AndyD273

@Secespitus does your name have an actual meaning?

FoxElemental

@dot no

dot_Sp0T

@AndyD273 oh that is a whole otehr subject on top :) but tots understand ur point if that's why she cries

FoxElemental

@dot It's like . . oh hold on

This is what the aligner looks like:

Secespitus

4:04 PM

Sep 5 '17 at 11:45, by Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Secespita is latin for Opfermesser (sacrificial knife). -us is a male ending in latin, whereas -a would be female.

dot_Sp0T

so again, why do you do a count?

and of what?

FoxElemental

So you use a Secespitus to sacrifice someone who's been Secespitized? How gruesome

Secespitus

@dot_Sp0T Sorry, you lost me there. Weren't we talking about my username?

FoxElemental

@dot count of "score" of me (wins) vs Invisalign (pain0

dot_Sp0T

@Secespitus no, about the weird thing Fox does with their braces

Secespitus

4:06 PM

@dot_Sp0T Ah, okay.

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental but how do you judge winning/losing? What's the metric?

FoxElemental

Pain vs no pain every time I feel/don't feel it

it's kinda not really a good score

But it helps me keep track

dot_Sp0T

but pain is subjective, and the count is lopsided as only one party is sentient

FoxElemental

No, because the Invisalign is winning

AndyD273

Yeah, the other day she was very upset that the sisters picked Balto 2 and not the Avengers cartoon that she wanted to watch.
I really do try to be understanding, and help her understand that part of growing up is not always getting your way, but there is a breaking point

FoxElemental

4:08 PM

Hi @Jour

dot_Sp0T

when speaking of the devil

FoxElemental

Read the full transcript to understand :)

dot_Sp0T

@FoxElemental no

FoxElemental

Talking to Journyman

hi @hos

Hosch250

Hi.

dot_Sp0T

4:09 PM

@AndyD273 well, you seem to be doing great (based on the small amount of stories i gather you writing on this chat)

FoxElemental

Hi @HDE. Wow, it's cramped in here

dot_Sp0T

too cramped... o/

FoxElemental

Don't leave me, Papa Dot Spot!

Hi @Bell

Bellerophon

@FoxElemental Hey.

How's it going?

FoxElemental

Fine. read today's transcript to know what we're talking about (movies, Secespitizing, Invisalign . . .)

And you

?

HDE 226868

4:14 PM

@FoxElemental Hey.

FoxElemental

Every time things get interesting

I have to leave

TTY just a little L

Bellerophon

@FoxElemental Alright. Just got back from putting amps in a van.

AndyD273

Time to eat...

Aify

4:42 PM

@Secespitus You dare summon me?

It is alright, I am in a mood to be summoned today.

Secespitus

@Aify WorldBuilding.SE is in dire need of your assisstance :D

Aify

It's never in "dire" need

Secespitus

Okay, maybe that was the wrong word. How about "desperate"?

Aify

I should rephrase myself

Worldbuilding.SE Is never in "need" of my assistance.

It's not like I have a god given duty to close questions as quickly as possible

Secespitus

I wasn't referring to closing a question. Just linked another meta you might be interested in.

Aify

4:46 PM

But i'm reading the thing you've linked right now. Give me a moment.

I know XD

I was making a reference to the starred message in chat

Aify

4:57 PM

@Secespitus I need to change my vote to you as #1. Your responses to that meta question are very similar to what I would've written, except you did it without being... curt.

2

Secespitus

@Aify I am very glad to hear that :D

Aify

Especially your point on "Or whether or not some or many are low quality?"

When i read that in the question, my first thought was "Oh hell no, did you just assume whether or not I would care? Because I care. This site shouldn't be something where I have to click through hundreds of questions just to find one good one."

And you rephrased and answered with that sentiment exactly :)

Hosch250

Hi, @TimB.

Tim B

Good evening

Hosch250

I'm tempted to paraphrase Gandalf about what you mean by that :)

Secespitus

5:02 PM

@Aify It's a difficult point, especially because of the personal way it's phrased. People are here for a lot of different reasons.

AndyD273

@Aify Why would you possibly think that was referring to you?

Oh, found it:

Jun 26 at 16:59, by Aify

If I try to slow down a bit I'd be less efficient! Looks like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place XD

:)

AndyD273

5:15 PM

@Secespitus I totally agree with your meta answer, and it lines up with James thoughts on the original real world topic which I think is right on. Referring to the starred post that @Aify was just talking about though, something that might be good to talk about is how to help people provide context without falling into the "story based" close reason.

Secespitus

@AndyD273 My go to is writing a comment and ask "What are you trying to achieve with that?" to get to the core problem. Or at least I am trying to do that. Is that what you mean? And thanks.

AndyD273

that comment was in reply to a person complaining that a lot of questions were getting closed for being "story based", when they were really just providing context as to why it was world building, and not "homework".

Secespitus

@AndyD273 Highlighting the generic core of the question that is not focused on "What would my character do?" is an important thing.

Can you link to the question that was the trigger for that starred message?

AndyD273

1

Q: Army composition in a "Dies the Fire" scenario

For those not familiar Dies the Fire and the subsequent novels by S.M. Stirling are a fantasy companion to his Island in the sea of time series where Nantucket is sent back in time to roughly 3500 BCE. In Summary all electricity, gunpowder and advanced power generation ceases to function because...

science-fiction technological-development military

Secespitus

@AndyD273 Thanks, I'll take a look

AndyD273

5:23 PM

It might be off topic for other reasons, I'm not sure, but not story based

FoxElemental

hewwo again

Aify

@AndyD273 No, I fully understood why you got that impression from me. I just don't appreciate being associated with any religious/spiritual words. I don't feel that I have a god given right to do anything (because I don't believe in any). Instead, I feel that as a user who's been here for so long, it's part of my responsibilities in community management to moderate the content to the best of my ability.

Secespitus

@AndyD273 First thing I notice with the first revision is that the ending question is simply "Suggestions?", which is often taken as "Too Broad/Primarily Opinion-Base" because it doesn't have criteria. Obviously these can be inferred from the text above, but that one states again that they are looking for ideas. Revision 3 on the other hand is perfectly clear and on-topic.

FoxElemental

What to do about a user who posts multiple things and doesn't seem to want to take the tour?

Secespitus

All in all I wouldn't have expected off-topic -> story-based.

Aify

5:29 PM

@FoxElemental what can you do except for DV and close/flag?

FoxElemental

@Aify That's harsh. And the posts are answers, and not bad ones

Aify

If it's a bad answer, DV it.

Secespitus

@FoxElemental If you told them once you can link to a specific page or meta discussion if that is applicable. Other than that there isn't much. We can't force anybody to take the tour or visit the help center, we can judge try to help them.

Aify

It's not harsh, it's being fair.

Downvote everything that's bad. Upvote the fantastic stuff. Ignore the "meh" stuff

FoxElemental

It's just meh answers.

Secespitus

5:30 PM

@FoxElemental If they are not bad then it doesn't matter, leave the user alone.

Aify

Then ignore it

Nothing you can do

AndyD273

@Aify It's a common literary phrase, and honestly not just singling you out. That's why the plural wording was used.

@Secespitus It was open again by the time that I saw it, but the person who brought it in here said that it had been story based. Something like "it seems like any question that has any details about setting is getting closed as story based, even if it's not about character actions."

Secespitus

@AndyD273 I rephrased it a bit because it was a bit hard to read.

But it didn't look story-based to me.

Aify

@AndyD273 That's why I didn't take it personally, and instead made a joke-ish reply to it :)

The Dies in fire question isn't story based

But it is POB

Secespitus

Basically I am with Alexander and I could have understood "unclear" votes. I would have though there were one or two broad/opinion votes. But story?

AndyD273

5:39 PM

@Aify ok cool.

Aify

"What would be the most effective military organisation someone with modern day knowledge could come up with?"

I voted it as POB btw

The answer to the above question is "It depends"

on everything.

"I'm leaning towards mixed units of pikes and crossbows with auxiliary light cavalry simply because it's probably the most effective absent cannons and other artillery, but I might be missing something. What would be the most effective military unit under the above constraints?"

Most effective? Really? POB keyword markers; how are you measuring effectiveness?

Least loss of life? Quickest enemy annihilation? Effective for getting the enemy to surrender? Seiging?

Secespitus

@AndyD273 We should keep an eye on whether this happens more often. I noticed it with this question, which has only one person and therefore some people seemed to assume it's story-based.

Bellerophon

How many effects generated per second.

Only way to measure effectiveness.

Aify

Going back a moment; it depends not only on how you measure effectiveness, but it also depends on what you're up against

AndyD273

@Secespitus I don't know if there is a way to see close reasons after something has been reopened.

Aify

5:41 PM

Where the environment is.

@AndyD273 you can see the edit history

It shows "closed as [reason]" in the history

Secespitus

@AndyD273 You can see the level one reason in the revision history.

But not whether it's "story-based" off-topic or "not worldbuilding" off-topic for example.

Aify

TBH Story based isn't really a useful close reason

AndyD273

@Secespitus Here's the other one: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/117716/…

Aify

Every "TSB" question is "POB"

So i just use POB for that instead.

AndyD273

It seems more POB that SB

Secespitus

5:43 PM

@AndyD273 In that case I have disagree. I voted on the first revision which read "Would he work with historians or could he have another value?" -> "What would my character do?" is exactly what story-based is supposed to be for.

Aify

I'd like to insert here that "what would my character do" is a variation of POB.

Bellerophon

@Aify NOt always. Usually it is but sometimes it isn't.

Aify

@Bellerophon You're right, I accidentally worked in absolutes again

"I'd like to insert here that "what would my character do" is usually a variation of POB."

Secespitus

@AndyD273 The second/third revision on the other hand seems to be on-topic again.

I have cast my vote.

Aify

@Secespitus Still seems like OP is fishing for ideas. OP ideally needs to do research on what problems historians face. I'm not voting to reopen the question b/c fishing for ideas is too broad.

Tim B

5:51 PM

Fishing for ideas is a common problem we have here :)

Aify

This is true.

Out of curiosity, what do you guys think about JBH's culture shock post?

15

Q: Avoiding Worldbuilding.SE Culture Shock

The purpose of this post is to be a short primer in the nature of our world. Regrettably, the several pages in the Help Center aren't great for this because we're different enough from, say, Stack Overflow that some of the concepts don't apply. My goal is for the community to help build a nice...

discussion asking-questions reference new-users

Secespitus

@Aify That is okay. In my eyes the question is fine now and the OP did everything that I mentioned in my comment so I cast my vote to reopen the question.

Tim B

@Aify This is not an official response from "the team" but I like it and Monica at least has seen and responded on it

Aify

I have mixed feelings about that post.

Tim B

I'm not sure how much it can actually achieve but it does no harm to try

FoxElemental

5:58 PM

Mmm. It's a nice idea, but needs some work.

Tim B

I've seen stuff like this tried before and it tends to sort of fizzle out unless multiple users are willing to get involved and drive it forwards/point people to it/etc

AndyD273

@Aify I think you'd close that first Good example as POB.

Aify

I don't see culture shock as a bad thing though.

Tim B

i.e. the Sandbox works because enough people are willing to monitor and respond on it

AndyD273

@Aify It weeds out the weak?

Aify

5:59 PM

@AndyD273 Yes.

FoxElemental