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9:00 PM
Yes!
That actually works.
@Robusto: aha, so it's kind of moi, je in French.
Me, I like Japanese?
 
Yep.
Except daisuki means "like it a lot" ...
 
Well, where's the dotted line, I'll sign that.
 
How did you come to Japanese? On your own?
 
Kono dokki doki wa naze tomaranai
That should explain everything.
But actually, through friends, video games, movies, more friends, more movies...
Shiina Ringo, Aya Matsuura, DJ Krush
And then Sofia Coppola and Bill Murray.
 
Ah, well that explains it.
 
9:08 PM
Anyone wants to listen to the Welsh anthem? :)
 
Anyone wants not to? Bring it on.
 
I was just reminded of it by the poem in Toki pona. Anyway, here it is:
 
Speaking of Welsh, I'm reading an interesting book by John McWorter now, called Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue, in which he proposes that a lot of English constructions (like the meaningless "do") come from Cornish and Welsh.
Hard not to like blonde female harpists with good voices singing anything ... but maybe I'm prejudiced.
 
Haha. It's easy to match the singing with the lyrics as well, which adds to the enjoyment
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau () is the national anthem of Wales. The title – taken from the first words of the song – means "Old Land of My Fathers", usually rendered in English as simply "Land of My Fathers". The words were written by Evan James and the tune composed by his son, James James, both residents of Pontypridd, Glamorgan, in January 1856. The earliest written copy survives and is part of the collections of the National Library of Wales. Origins Glan Rhondda (Banks of the Rhondda), as it was known when it was composed, was first performed in the vestry of the original Capel Tabor, Maest...
That Wikipedia article has the lyrics
 
I find that the hardest thing for me to translate from foreign languages is songs that I hear on the radio.
 
9:14 PM
Thanks @Vitaly, that was beautiful. The lyrics helped, too.
 
You're welcome.
 
Great song.
BTW, @RegDwight, if you have an Android phone there are some great apps for hiragana and katakana practice, also kanji lookup, etc.
 
It gives me goosebumps every time I listen to it. I would have married the lady, were she somewhat younger. ;D
 
@Robusto: I think that Japanese is actually an exception in that regard. Most things are surprisingly clearly articulated, even for someone who doesn't understand the least bit.
With English, I sometimes find myself not even listening to the lyrics.
 
I would put Japanese in the same bin, or worse. You see, it's an isochronous language, and when they stretch syllables out it can get incomprehensible very fast.
 
9:16 PM
Oh, well, yeah, with the obvious exception of that.
 
I can make out a lot of the words in songs I hear, but then I'll come to a stretch that is incomprehensible.
 
Though my point is that I can still hear the individual sounds. With English, if I'm not actively listening, it's just some background mumbling.
 
Anyway, the reason I was curious about your native tongue(s) is that you have a remarkably good grasp of English. Every now and then, though, you will use a word in an odd way that would make me suspect (if I didn't know) that you were not a native speaker. I think that's happened about twice in total since I've been coming to English.SE.
Vitaly, do you know the singer personally?
 
No. She is one of the best folk singers in Wales.
 
I must say that I sometimes do that on purpose, actually. Also, I don't care much about comments. Sometimes I see a glaring error in what I've just written, but then I just say to myself, nah, whatever, they'll understand what I mean.
 
9:22 PM
I'm not talking about typos, although they could in fact be typos.
Now I feel a bit like this guy ...
<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/XWgHiUZYRSo" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>
I don't know how you guys embed those links the way you do ...
 
Heh. Well, I'm not pretending that I'm perfect or anything (though I would very much like to!), it's just that sometimes I can totally see what ungrammatical nonsense I'm producing, but I simply don't care enough to fix it.
Just leave a link to the video on a separate line.
 
Yeah, the first time, it took me two attempts to get it right as well. The separate line must be really, really separate.
 
I care enough to fix my nonsense, but I just don't know better. I have been studying English in earnest for 3 to 4 years at best, so my command of the language is kind of limited. :-/
 
August Diehl rules.
 
9:26 PM
What's funny is, the British spy in that scene, his German accent sounds about like mine.
He skates over the surface of the "r"s just like I do, whereas a real German digs right in.
My surname is German and I can't even pronounce it to my own satisfaction ...
Yeah, and Christopher Waltz ain't no slouch neither.
 
@RegDwight How do you improve your active vocabulary?
 
Hm. I've watched it anderthalb times now, but I still don't get how exactly he blows his cover. Has it to do with the three fingers?
I'm leaving the rather obvious English accent aside, for a moment.
@Vitaly: by writing a lot. Participating in Wikipedia writing contests. Posting on YouTube and Reddit.
And simply mimicking others, much like little children do.
 
It's clear from the dialogue that it's his accent that gives him away.
 
Cool. I was rather afraid that it would be something different.
 
August Diehl calls him Stürmbahnführer Heimatslose ...
or whatever his rank was, I can't remember
 
9:35 PM
Sturmbannführer was a paramilitary rank of the Nazi Party equivalent to major, used both in the Sturmabteilung (SA) and the Schutzstaffel (SS). Translated as “Assault (or Storm) Unit Leader” (Sturmbann being the SA and early SS equivalent to a battalion), the rank originated from German Shock Troop units of the First World War where the title of Sturmbannführer would occasionally be held by the Battalion Commander. History The SA title of Sturmbannführer was first established in 1921. In 1928, the title became an actual rank and was also one of the first established SS ranks. The ins...
 
But it means [Captain] No-homeland
Or major, w/e ...
And @Vitaly, if you've only been studying English for 3-4 years, don't be too hard on yourself. I think you're doing an excellent job.
 
Man, I have wasted the whole day in chat, what's even going on on the main site?
 
IDK. Working from home today since we have yet another blizzard.
 
Oh, and I second Robusto, I'm impressed. Not that my opinion as a non-native speaker weighs anywhere as much, but still.
 
Thanks guys.
 
9:41 PM
(But what a day has it been! First Paolo Conte, then Renato Carosone, and finally, the Welsh anthem.)
 
音楽も大好きです。
 
Anyhow, I'll be leaving in a few minutes.
What does that mean?
 
I too love music.
 
That is music? See, I didn't even know that!
 
The characters are "sound" and "study" ...
 
9:45 PM
My favourite is "way" (I hope that's what it means). I like drawing it.
 
Actually, check that ... I was thinking of "gaku" meaning study, but this "gaku" is also music or comfort or ease ...
 
 
So a more accurate translation would be "sound comfort"
Hiting the "road" eh?
じゃ、またね。。。
 
They don't listen much Skryabin or Schönberg, I reckon.
 
Well, I wouldn't call much of traditional Japanese music mellifluous
 
9:49 PM
Mellifluous, a word I actually learned just a week ago or so
 
Not exactly twelve-tone composition, but not exactly easy on the ears either.
Good timing, Vitaly :)
 
Indeed, spaced repetition FTW
 
7
A: Word meaning coincidence of reference to the unusual

MarthaI think you might be thinking of synchronicity.

 
I used to study music, and once got bitched out for playing a Messiaen piece in an audition.
 
Now we're talking! I almost became a conductor.
And by almost I mean like, 8 years or something.
 
9:53 PM
Cool. I was a lowly flutist (or flautist, depending on how much money I was getting).
 
Piano, guitar, some accordion here.
 
i play the piano for my own comfort these days. Hardly ever pick up the flute.
And I think of the years I put in on that instrument, practicing five hours a day plus whatever jobs I could get ...
 
Hm. What ever happened to my plans to buy a concert flute?
My wife should remind me more often.
 
Playing the flute at the gates of dawn?
 
Hahaha. Back at square one.
 
9:55 PM
No, more like melodies of the half-goat man, slouching along beneath the trees, trying to tease a little dryad out of her hiding place ...
 
Hahaha.
 
Hey yo guys, now that there's a native speaker around, do discuss that Gates of Dawn thing, I'm curious!
 
Or were you making a reference to Pink Floyd's first album "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn"?
 
No, I was making a reference to what you thought initially
 
Ok, so walk me through the Gates of Dawn thing ...
 
9:57 PM
5 hours ago, by Vitaly
Hello. I am curious what the Gates of Dawn part in The Piper at the Gates of Dawn (the name of the 7th chapter of The Wind in the Willows) means. I am not sure, however, that it would be a suitable question for E.SE. :-/
Click on "5 hours ago" to read on.
 
And about half an hour of discussion that follows that message of mine
 
I would think the Gates of Dawn are just the metaphorical portals that exist between the night and the day.
Kind of like the Roman god Janus, god of doorways, entrances and exits, comings and goings, transitions ...
 
... and auto-antonyms.
 
It is a mystical time of day ... the moment when you realize you are dreaming, and then poof the dream is gone.
But right before that you exist in two worlds.
 
Beautiful.
 
10:02 PM
Or maybe it is a special world all its own, distinct and apart from waking and sleeping ... as the Japanese would call it, a dream within a dream?
 
Now we only need a feature to turn chat comments into questions and answers.
As Christopher Nolan would call it, Inception.
 
What, no link? Pffft.
Nah, Inception was always about self-awareness.
 
Inception is a 2010 science fiction thriller film, which was written, produced, and directed by Christopher Nolan. The film stars Leonardo DiCaprio, Ken Watanabe, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Marion Cotillard, Ellen Page, Tom Hardy, Cillian Murphy, Dileep Rao, Tom Berenger, and Michael Caine. DiCaprio plays Dom Cobb, a specialized spy or corporate espionage thief. His work consists of secretly extracting valuable commercial information from the unconscious mind of his targets while they are asleep and dreaming. Unable to visit his children, Cobb is offered a chance to regain his old life in exc...
 
There is a dream state that can be achieved in a wakeful state. I call it the state of unself-conscious absorption, which I have only ever achieved while playing music.
 
Flow.
 
10:05 PM
When you are not aware of yourself as a performer, but you become the music you are playing. That is what I am talking about.
That's what was so exciting about playing in an orchestra.
Being a part of this big, beautiful God machine ...
 
Flow is the mental state of operation in which a person in an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. Proposed by Mihály Csíkszentmihályi, the positive psychology concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields. According to Csíkszentmihályi, flow is completely focused motivation. It is a single-minded immersion and represents perhaps the ultimate in harnessing the emotions in the service of performing and learning. In flow the emotions are not just contained and channeled, but positive, energiz...
 
Interesting. I've been aware of the concept all my adult life, but never heard it encapsulated like that.
 
Do you happen to have read some science fiction by Vernor Vinge? @RegDwight
 
Gotta go, folks, catch you later!
 
Like A Fire Upon The Deep?
 
10:08 PM
Bye @RegDwight
 
Oh, the name doesn't look familiar
 
Seeya reg
 
We can talk about that tomorrow, though.
 
Yes, Robusto, A Deepness in the Sky
 
Thanks a bunch, bye all.
 
10:09 PM
Dos vidanya
 
The Focused state he's talking about in that novel
 
The focused state of the Tines?
 
A Deepness in the Sky is a Hugo Award winning science fiction novel by Vernor Vinge. Published in 1999, the novel is a loose prequel (set twenty thousand years earlier) to his earlier novel A Fire Upon the Deep (1992). The title is coined by one of the story's main characters in a debate, in a reference to the hibernating habits of his species and to the vastness of space. Background The plot begins with the discovery of an intelligent alien species on a planet orbiting an anomalous star, dubbed On/Off because for 215 of every 250 years it is dormant, releasing almost no energy. During t...
Ctrl+F Focused
 
I haven't read that one yet, but it's on my list. I've only just finished A Fire Upon The Deep a few months ago.
 
For what it's worth, I liked A Deepness better than Fire ;)
 
10:13 PM
getting back on topic, does anyone else think the tag "words" is overapplied?
 
@Vitaly: I am definitely going to check it out.
@nohat: Don't start pulling at that thread, or we'll find ourself without a site. :)
But, seriously, you can't have a language without words, so I don't know how that tag wouldn't be applicable to any question.
 
10:28 PM
Yes, like "usage" and "english", I think we should move away from tags that could apply to any question
or almost any question
 
What we really need is a browsable list of tags.
Maybe with a filter for categories. Many times I myself don't have any idea what available tags would apply to a question I am asking or editing. It would be helpful to be able to consult a list.
 
I think that's how all the "usage" and "words" tags creep in. People don't know.
No, with all due respect, that is a HORRIBLE way to list tags.
I don't care what the names are. I want to see names and meanings side by side.
 
Oh, yeah.
 
The more I think about this tag problem, the more I realize that much more than on SO and probably other sites, people are just so ignorant about how language works that they don't even have the ideas let alone the names of terms to use to tag their questions
 
10:32 PM
While a bunch of taglets may look pretty on the page, the eye can't parse that.
@nohat: /nod
 
I completely agree that the tags page with the snippets inline would be much more useful
and would help people maybe have an idea of which tags to use
the result of this is that we have to rely on knowledgeable users to retag much more than other places
 
And the converse of that is, people who are familiar with the more recondite aspects of English might be reluctant to tag something with too erudite a label, knowing that few would understand what it meant.
 
right, that is exactly why i originally proposed "acceptability" instead of "grammaticality"
but the message I seem to have gotten from Jeff is that if the term might be misconstrued, then it's probably a bad tag name
 
I mean, if there were a tag for deep-structure, would anyone really use it? Would they understand it?
 
well, we don't really get many questions about deep structure
 
10:36 PM
Just an example.
 
well, today i have created the grammaticality and the pragmatics tags
finding questions to tag with grammaticality hasn't been that hard... searching for "correct" or "incorrect" or "wrong" in questions is a good sign that it's likely to be a question about grammaticality.
 
@Kosmonaut could probably add forty or fifty linguistics tags off the top of his head, but would anyone get any use out of them? The trick is to find tags that are explicit enough yet retaining the "common touch" of near-universal comprehensibility.
 
Finding pragmatics questions will be harder. We certainly get questions about how context affects meaning, but finding them is hard.
 
I look at a tag like "singular" ... even that seems too general.
The truth of the matter is, human languages are very much more resistant to this kind of categorization effort. They are much squishier than computer languages, say, which goes back to your point about SO vs. ESO.
Or ESE.
 
I think for "singular" that questions tagged "plural" or "singular" should be made synonyms of "grammatical-number" or something like that
i think that's actually a good example of the synonym system at work... people know the words "singular" and "plural" but probably don't know that they're different kinds of grammatical number
I need to make myself a to-do list of tagging
this is why I put off the question of tags for long
 
10:42 PM
Hey, that's why you get the big bucks.
Gotta run. My dinner timer just went off. TTYL
 

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