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7:00 PM
in Apocalypse engine you got a partial success! You find the books...but half of them have water damage.
There can be only one 7-sided die on this SE
May 15 at 14:29, by Rubiksmoose
@goodguy5 Here is the help description for the dice service: The roller supports: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20. You can roll up to four sets of XdY using one of those dice, where X is up to 9. X defaults to 1, Y defaults to 6. / Roll 9d4 for caltrops!
@Rubiksmoose but which NWP would I need? Foraging, tracking, or direction sense? (Did you ever play 1e?)
@DavidCoffron Alas I have not. Only editions I've played are 3.5, PF, and 5.
I played with my dad and brothers around the time 3.5 was popular. (Played 2e most of the time but we went back to 1e for a campaign for the fun of it)
7:07 PM
I wish I had played the older editions honestly because I think it provides some very neat context which is helpful (or at least interesting) when answering questions.
@Rubiksmoose there are some people who still play older editions. Not many, but some.
Nonweapon proficiencies were the OG skills. Perception wasn't invented yet afaik
Hell, just a couple years or so ago I had the opportunity to introduce some new people to Pathfinder from AD&D 2e; that's just all they'd played until they came to college
@Delioth I'm sure I could find some if I tried really hard, but I don't even know if I'd be up to learning the system lol.
@Delioth Wow.
It's really not as bad as it seems. Plus for at least 2e specifically, Baldur's Gate (video game) actually does a pretty solid recreation of the actual rules and is a great story to go with it. That can always help get you into the rules (especially since it doesn't make you do the math, it'll do it and get it right, you can then play around with it to figure out how it works)
7:11 PM
Older editions help understand why stats are generally on a scale of 3 to 18
And AFAIK, 2e and such were more about reading tables than actual calculations. Rather than adding modifiers a bunch, you checked on the table (i.e. to get your THAC0 you don't add your base attack bonuses, you look it up and then apply your much smaller modifiers). As far as I've known, the system works roughly similar to 3e but a lot of things are backwards-the Mage doesn't determine the save needed, that's a stat you have; the AC isn't the goal to beat, you have the goal and AC modifies that
Though that's a "grain of salt" generalization, I don't have personal play experience with the actual PnP system; I'm working on info gleaned from BG and a couple buddies
@Delioth 2e taught you how to calculate trig functions before calculators implemented them.
@Rubiksmoose you're not missing anything from pre 3e
Five kinds of saves, typed poisons, different XP tracks per class, max level caps...
Multiclassing limitations, dual classing.
dual classing somehow being different from multiclassing...
7:17 PM
Dual classing was a human only option to stop pursuing one class forever and start another.
Multiclassing choices were limited depending on race, if I recall.
I can't remember which edition didn't have a separation between race and class.
You had fighters, wizards, dwarves, elves, etc.
7:18 PM
Fighter, Mage, Thief, Cleric, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling.
The demi-humans were effectively the multiclass options.
@Maximillian I think some entire classes were limited by race.
Elf best class ever
2E Paladins also had half their class featured buried in the expectation you would get a Holy Avenger sword at some point.
Race definitely limited what level you could get in AD&D.
"Welp, I'm a dwarf, so I can only get to 12th level rogue"
or whatever
Many classes had stat requirements. Paladin and Bard were absurd.
7:20 PM
yea, if you were playing a paladin, there was a general expectation that you cheated on your stat roll
Fighters had a built in catch to get followers (This is Leadership in 3.x)
Successful fighters were entitled to a keep.
hirelings were .... odd
1e classes and restrictions @goodguy5 : adventuresinnerdliness.net/dnd/adnd/classes.html
dual-classing sucked.

Couldn't one race tri-class?
Elves could triple multiclass.
dual classing was a human only option.
7:23 PM
How do you get bard then? Don't you need fighter/thief/cleric for bard
@Maximillian ah yes. sorry. I confused the terms because they're similar
> If wisdom is greater than 15, the character receives a 10% bonus to experience.
Bards had detailed requirements. I don't recall the specifics.
It's probably modelling talent, but it's just punishing bad dice rolls at the beginning for forever.
Bards were terrible fighters, terrible mages, and half a rogue, all in one.
7:25 PM
@Maximillian medium mages, iirc.
no worse that illusionists until at least 5th level
'Exceptional Strength' is something I'm glad is gone forever.
If you rolled 18, there was a substat of 1 to 100 to determine just /how/ good your 18 is.
Gygax had such a weird boner for tables and charts
Well the game decends from chainmail which was just tabletop fantasy wargaming, which was move your figure, roll some dice, lookup the table.
fair point
@Maximillian Do I have to fall prone to look up [at] the table
7:29 PM
Make a called shot on the table.
Do enough damage and you destroy probability itself.
I don't miss wizards with crossbows
@goodguy5 Neither do I, because they are still prevalent at low levels
I should have said "I don't miss wizards NEEDING crossbows"

5e has made for plenty of non crossbow options with cantrips
@goodguy5 makes a wizard character with a crossbow
@goodguy5 It helps that their AC typically isn't terribly high.
7:33 PM
@Yuuki I was hoping someone would go for it.
7:44 PM
In 2E Wizards mostly had knife or staff. Knifestaff was too scientifically advanced.
What exactly is the Use an object action? Any object interaction that isn't a weapon? The way it's worded in the PHB is weird
I remember when one of my friends who was playing a Wizard three-crit auto-killed a young red dragon with a knife throw when we were supposed to run from it since we were level 3.
@DavidCoffron There's the Action Use an Object, but that may be different than the Healing kit requiring an Action.
@DavidCoffron Basically, the way it's phrased is any time a (nonmagical) object can be used as an action, that action is automatically considered the Use an Object action.
@NautArch I think the way it is worded, CTWind is right. Healers Kit is an object that takes an action to use
"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action"
I'm just curious what other obscure action count as use an object that I didn't realize
7:50 PM
@DavidCoffron most likely, yes
alright. frandz
have a good weekend
@DavidCoffron I think drawing/stowing a weapon or other object would normally qualify as this action
@MikeQ you can either draw or stow as part of your action
but that's either, not and.
and requires an action
7:54 PM
@MikeQ what about strumming an instrument? (Are there any bard actions involving that)
@DavidCoffron Kinda...Countercharm. But that's not necessarily an instrument.
as with all bard things :)
@DavidCoffron It depends? Since a bard can use an instrument as a spellcasting focus, and the spellcasting focus is automatically used as part of the spell itself, then... it's not normally its own action, at least for bards.
Yeah. Countercharm is a good point. If I'm performing with an instrument for countercharm is it Use an Object? (Spellcasting is already the more specific Cast a Spell action)
I guess if you're "using" the instrument to do something else - like give bardic inspiration - then it's just part of the action (or bonus action or reaction)
@DavidCoffron NO, it's the Countercharm Action. The singing/playing is just along with it.
7:57 PM
Or is that not the object requiringam action for use as much as the action functioning with a specific object optionally
exactly, bard stuff is in in parallel
but it is why i built my bard to be weaponless. He never stops playing his lyre.
Now I want to know all the class features/feat's that DO count as Use an Object
@DavidCoffron i want to say that is zero
Healer feat
It's using an object as an action.
@DavidCoffron the object use is subsumed in the class feature that specifies it's using an action.
7:59 PM
There's not too many features besides that that I can think of that say "You can use item X in Y new way."
Thief rogue has something that does something with use an object
10 mins ago, by David Coffron
"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action"
Are you asking about what accouterments go along with class features or actions?
@DavidCoffron But that's the standard object. The feat has nothing to do with it. Using A healer's kit is still an action.
and you don't need the feat for it. SO yeah, the feat requires it because the object already requires it.
@Gryphon dear lord I knew that each subrace should be a different question :P answering that took lots of time.
8:01 PM
@ColinGross that doesn't cover it. It's inverted. The object has to require your action. Not the action requiring the object
And I even simplified my own life alot not comparing to every race.
@MikeQ Those would be object interaction (you get 1 free each turn during your move or action)
@HellSaint The life alot is indeed a complex creature.
Full of mystery and wonderment.
@Yuuki But it can be simplified when you don't compare it. It's quantum that way
@DavidCoffron I think I see. So healer might not be a good example feat since it says "when you use a healer kit"... which is already the use object action.
8:05 PM
@HellSaint I like your answer but not every race scales like you suggest eart and water should. (Look at gnomes for example). I think earth is fine
You're asking which objects require a full action to operate and can't be done as part of a move?
Like turning the wheel of a gatehouse?
@ColinGross kind of, but ones that have options beyond the built in ones as a result of other features
@ColinGross Short answer: Every object that says it takes it an action to use, takes an action to use.
@GreySage I concur with that. Specific beats general.
@DavidCoffron I mention it in the side note. Gnomes have advantages in STs agains spells, which arguably has a constant utility through the game.
8:07 PM
@DavidCoffron So you're saying a feat that offers Use Object on something that wouldn't otherwise be usable in that fashion?
My point is that they should have something that is useful during the whole game, not something that is incredibly strong early on and then becomes useless later.
@ColinGross feat or other feature (racial trait, class feature)
@HellSaint valid
I just think piercing resistance covers that
@DavidCoffron I'm trying to think of one that does that. A feat or feature that gives you a Use Object action not otherwise available.
@HellSaint strong early vs continued utility is a valid trade off
Only one I know is healer feat which gives an alternative use for healers kit
That just adds to the existing Use Object on healer's kit.
8:11 PM
Yeah that's what I'm looking for. Other things that add to the Use an Object of other objects
When you use the Use Object with healer's kit, it has an additional effect.
Oh... gotcha. So additional effect "when you use a ____ to ____ you also get _____"
No. The second benefit of healer
"As an action, you can spend one use of a healer’s kit to tend to a creature and restore 1d6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature’s maximum number of Hit Dice. The creature can’t regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest."
that's not use object.
It should be
You are using an object with your action
That's a separate action.
That's burn the use of a healers kit for a specific action the feat provides.
I'd read that as unconventional or expert use of healers kit components.
8:14 PM
14 mins ago, by David Coffron
10 mins ago, by David Coffron
"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action"
"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action."- the phrasing indicates any time you're using an object as an action, it's subsumed into the Use an Object action.
The healer's kit use is the material components for the action if you don't mind the borrowing of the term component.
So your saying that the other action doesn't actually use the healers kit
(I have no idea if I'm using subsumed right, but it feels right.)
Just expends a charge of it
8:15 PM
Half dozen of one, six of the other?
The action to heal doesn't say you use the kit to be fair. Just that it costs one use
You've got to have it on you either way. So yeah... I think that is the use object action. You're correct.
If you take apart a cell phone to make a shitty improvised explosive, you're using the cell phone object.
But that's equivolent by plain reading
Just in a weird way.
So are there any other features that do a similar thing was my question
8:17 PM
So what other feats gives additional special actions for specific objects?
@ColinGross It is a valid trade-off when you are playing a campaign that goes through the whole thing. If you are just playing a Tier 1 adventure, strong early on means too strong, since you won't be playing when it would start to decay.
The fighting feats are out, because attack action isn't use object
@HellSaint Similar to starting with L7 characters. You won't take the early benefit stuff in favor of later game feats.
If your players are optimizing for mechanics.
If that's what they like, roll with it and give them encounters and challenges where that stuff can be used to entertaining effect.
Yeah, but if it is a race, if you are starting at L7 you just won't pick that race :P - That's why I suggest to try and keep it consistent with the "utility through the entire game"
@HellSaint That's a solid suggestion.
Sometimes though, vicious mockery against an elder dragon is just too good to pass up.
Only if i fail my wis save
8:21 PM
What does the dragon do? Of course it uses a legendary save. What's more valuable that it's treasure? It's ego.
Depends on the dragon I guess (IF your using MM personalities)
What's proficiency at L13? 4 or 5? plus 3 or 4 for CHA... DC 15 or 17 isn't shabby at all.
@DavidCoffron Is there a humble dragon?
@ColinGross yes but what's humble to a dragon is still hopelessly haughty for a human
A Dragons of the Cuyahoga dragon would be of the opinion that sticks and stones won't break its bones, and words are insignificant unless they're degrading its stock portfolio.
@BESW What about a 90kg stone launched 300 meters by a trebuchet?
8:26 PM
@BESW I'm entertained... the passing remark that the gnomish tech sector is a poor investment
(Those dragons hoard treasure in order to influence human society, because individual humans are insignificant but armies can be a problem. They don't care about wealth except as an influence vector.)
@BESW Face-melting hellfire is also a great influence vector
A particularly cutting inference that their vector of influence is less than influential than they thought, or perhaps even... dun dun dunnnnn... short sighted might be rather disturbing.
Like when a small child says something rather prolific and cutting about the industry you work in.
@ColinGross Dragons don't have this problem, as they are independently wealthy
@SPavel butt melting hellfire on the other hand is the basis for a knock-off mexican food chain.
8:30 PM
And have had hundreds of years of experience in manipulating humans, so they have results that speak for themselves
@ColinGross Draconic fast food, hm...
@SPavel sure... but if your assets aren't liquid and you made the wrong move... maybe they invested in MySpace....
@ColinGross No dragon investor would put all their eggs in one basket
Maybe he'd be out a few million, big deal
Even Warren Buffett loses money
Maybe that's the remark then. They thought they were diversifying, but the bard just remarks that all those different investments are resting on the same platform.
What commodity do dragon invest in?
Craw metals!
Naturally, the German bible belt is square
8:32 PM
The precise remark isn't particularly important.
The bard would just spam /r/latestagecapitalism memes
I'm definitely making a bard that channels magic through memes
I use CuTtInG wOrDs
Cutting Captions
That's one way to make an Impact
L5 High Quality Gif
cantrip: downvote
as a reacton!
8:35 PM
> My Bard uses Countercharm "no u"
College of Kek
I've profaned the purpose of this chat long enough. I'll just show myself out.
If you cast this spell from a level 6 or higher slot, it becomes a webm instead
8:55 PM
Round number rep sighting!
9 gold badgers, nice
@BESW you taunt me once again I see :P
@SPavel Irony: one of the hardest to get is for a question that was closed as off-topic before it got a satisfactory answer.
9:13 PM
@BESW which one is that
@DavidCoffron Famous Question.
Now I'm curious to see what my most viewed question is rummages
(Special award for four deleted answers--which is a good sampling of why game-rec eventually went off topic.)
Why this one? v
Q: Can I choose to die instead of rolling death saving throws?

David CoffronIn some circumstances, dying immediately might be useful (such as if I want to be restored by revivify next round) so as to qualify as a dead creature instead of a dying one. Is this allowed?

That wasn't even a particularly interesting question of mine lol
Interesting doesn't matter; question views come from people who get it in Google searches.
So your higher-viewed questions will be the ones that fit the most common search strings, and you've got some good common search terms in there.
9:22 PM
@DavidCoffron She died of a broken heart.
@Yuuki Are questions female>
Can I ask that in meta :P
Or is that a question for English Language stack
you can definitely ask it, but it 99.99 % surely will get deleted XD
@DavidCoffron You’re going down a path I can’t follow.
9:23 PM
Q: Pronoun question: referring to inanimate objects as 'he' or 'she'

AugustinI read the following claim concerning pronouns referring to inanimate objects: Anything that is meant to contain you, protect you or provide you with something beneficial is [often referred to as] a she; anything that is a perceived threat is a he. That's why cars, boats and some countries a...

On this question:
Q: Cloning spell does it include consequences?

King_DiceyIm asking the community as a whole about this topic. I want to know how do you handle PC that clone themselves. Do you allow it and move on? or do you have a deity watching the PC because he maybe upsetting the balance? How do you guys handle, improve or improvise on this spell? and how does it a...

Is it opinion-based or just a prime example of a "good subjective question"
It's basically asking: How to handle in my game? Use experience to back it up.
@DavidCoffron I VTC'd 2 broad because it doesn't specify what needs to be handled, plus it has branching subquestions about incorporating the clone into the campaign
@BESW Ninja'd lol
9:44 PM
Bad Subtitle Of The Day: "The Mack karate era." (the McCarthy era)
Now I need to make an NPC named Mack Karate.
I figure he's probably an Iron Fist expy.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer: Can you react to your own spell? by Kathrin Guss on rpg.SE
9:57 PM
@BESW Is he related to Johnny Karate?
No, but he's friends with Johnny Tao.
10:25 PM
hey there @Gryphon
1 hour later…
11:49 PM
hey there @Helwar, how're things going?
hey! @Shalvenay, great!
doing fine here, how's your campaign been btw?
My campaign? slow but steady. Last day they botched up everything and didn't advance at all, but still got to laugh a lot
I'm doing my own character for a campaign that a coworker starts tomorrow though :)
ah, what's your build for that campaign? :)
V.human, thief rogue with healer feat
having trouble with Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws, I get everything mixed up :P I'm not used to use that part of the rules but the DM specified he uses it a lot
11:55 PM
@Helwar Uses how? I thought the traits/ideals/bonds/flaws were merely for concept generation and roleplay guidelines.
to award inspiration I guess? Maybe he's used to players that don't write a full backstory and has to depend on that?
@Helwar perhaps asking the DM would be best?
@Shalvenay It's 2 am here haha, not a good time. Also I don't know him yet :P But it's ok, it's just that everything can fit into an ideal, or a flaw, or a bond... depending on your phrasing
@Helwar ah, heheh
> A background contains suggested personal characteristics based on your background. You can pick characteristics, roll dice to determine them randomly, or use the suggestions as inspiration for characteristics of your own creation.
11:59 PM
@MikeQ I know, i have my book open by that page :)
Maybe I'm reading your book through the computer o_O

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