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12:47 AM
hello
 
 
2 hours later…
2:34 AM
With TikZ and @percusse's tricks.
 
2:53 AM
@marmot Seems to be missing something.
 
@AlanMunn I know, this is just reminder that this is not asymptote. Of course one could fine-tune thing further, but this is not the point.
 
@marmot Actually I was commenting on the lack of a duck. :) These days they seem obligatory.
 
@AlanMunn You just need to scroll up a bit. I think a duck rate of 50% is not that bad, is it?
 
@marmot Depends on your duck \tolerance I guess.
 
@AlanMunn Ducks are certainly much less underrepresented than marmots.
 
3:03 AM
@marmot True.
@marmot We have plenty of marmots around here in Michigan though.
 
@AlanMunn These are groundhogs. They don't really hibernate. It's a bit as if you were saying that ducks and geese are the same species.
 
@marmot So which of the species for you is a marmot proper?
(And grounhogs do hibernate.)
 
@AlanMunn They do not really hibernate, they just sleep long until they get woken up by some crazy people on February 2. Marmots hibernate till May 5, 5:05 pm.
 
@marmot Clearly we're not talking about the same thing any more. :)
 
4:08 AM
@marmot \node[basic,right=5cm of item] (transaction) {transaction this work but \node[basic,top=5cm of item] (transaction) {transaction not work.
 
@alhelal Try above instead of top.
 
4:22 AM
@marmot Thanks. This works.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:53 AM
@ChristianHupfer Shakira on the radio just now!
@PauloCereda Hello :-)
 
I found an old question about LaTeX on Stack Overflow and added an answer, but I think that question should stay here, is it possible to migrate it? (it's very old)
 
@CarLaTeX There are quite a few over there that should be here.
 
@Johannes_B And do they remain there? Which is the standard practice?
 
@CarLaTeX No idea. I lookked at the unanswered questions, most is coupled with markdown or R. The pure latex questions are almost all unanswerable because unclear. So there wouldn't be a point migrating them. As for the question you answered, as it is very old, possibly (if ever) a moderator could migrate. I am unsure.
 
@CarLaTeX You could flag it to be migrated to TeX.SE, I think
@Johannes_B Hola!
 
6:02 AM
@ChristianHupfer Hola
 
@ChristianHupfer If I click on off-topic there is too old to migrate. Can I flag in need of moderator intervention and explain it should be migrated here? Or is it too strong?
 
@CarLaTeX I think that's the way how to do it: Moderator intervention...
 
@ChristianHupfer OK, I'll try, thank you!
 
@CarLaTeX If the moderators do not agree, you have to eat a pineapple pizza every day ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh no! Even real pizza is no good every day, imagine a pineapple one!
 
6:13 AM
@CarLaTeX Real pizza? :D ... so pineapple pizza is imaginary, a complex one? \pineapplepizza \in \mathbb{C}? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer Only British can imagine it :)
 
@CarLaTeX No, unfortunately not... It's offered on the menus of Italian restaurants in Germany as well.
 
@ChristianHupfer I wouldn't call them restaurants :)
 
@CarLaTeX They call themselves 'Ristorante' ... but they don't expect some kind of Italian Inquisition ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer They should not be allowed to!
 
6:19 AM
@CarLaTeX: Seriously spoken: I have not met anyone in Germany that likes Pineapple pizza. I am wondering who is ordering it in a 'restaurant'....
 
@ChristianHupfer Easy answer: Britionsand Americans
 
What's the problem with pineapple pizza exactly? The original setup was selected for the colors, so it's not as if it has a lot (apart from patriotism) going for it anyway.
 
@CarLaTeX The number of Britons and Americans in Germany isn't really large in Germany (let me check in a few moments)
 
@StephanLehmke Don't try to ask it in Naples :)
 
@StephanLehmke Well, it's very easy to argue about food, isn't it? It's opinion based, but I don't like the taste of pineapple in basically any menu that isn't a dessert
 
6:24 AM
@CarLaTeX I usually try whatever is local at a certain place. But honestly, Pizza has tomatoes on it. That's not even native in Europe at all. So it's a purely artificial dish, hardly traditional. (and pasta is originally from China)
 
@StephanLehmke Our pasta is not vermicelli: fake news!
 
@ChristianHupfer Well that's certainly personal opinion. I find pineapple delicious and put it in a lot of dishes. Germany has a strong tradition of fruit in main courses (mostly apples, pears and raisins, of course, for traditional stuff). But if you go for overseas imports like potatoes and tomatoes, why not pineapples?
 
@StephanLehmke Also coffee doesn't grow in Italy, but only in Naples they make it well!
 
@CarLaTeX: I just checked: There are about 100000 Britons and of some amount US - citizens in Germany, according to the German Federal Board of Statistics ...
 
@ChristianHupfer So maybe some others like pineapple pizza OMG!
 
6:30 AM
@CarLaTeX I find the numbers quite large, even considering the fact that there are still members of US army or Royal army in Germany.
 
@ChristianHupfer But more than 80 million people live in Germany, in percentage they are few...
 
@CarLaTeX Almost on a per mill level, in fact
 
I like to eat heart.
 
@ChristianHupfer Not enough to justify pineapple pizza on the menu
@Johannes_B Girl's heart?
 
@CarLaTeX No.
 
6:36 AM
@CarLaTeX True
@Johannes_B Now, that's really weird ;-)
 
@Johannes_B So I'm safe, phew!
 
@ChristianHupfer If we kill the poor things to get T-bone steak, we should eaty all of it. Not just the best bits. Wait, the heart is one of the best bits.
 
@Johannes_B: I don't like eating such 'bits' like liver, stomach, heart, kidneys and what others prefer in addition ...
 
@ChristianHupfer You eat the parts you like, i eat a bit of the rest, and somebody else the left overs. I don't really see the problem.
 
6:40 AM
@Johannes_B No problem, as long as I am not offered the other bits ...
 
@Johannes_B Trippa (cow intestine) is a typical Milanese dish
 
@CarLaTeX And i bet it tastes very good. Why else would they still eat it?
 
@Johannes_B I like it very much, but many people don't dare eat it
 
@CarLaTeX Just because they know what it is and picture it.
@CarLaTeX Why can i read and understand most of this?
 
@Johannes_B Because you know Italian
 
6:52 AM
@CarLaTeX Not that i knew of.
 
@Johannes_B understandably
@Johannes_B Do you attend Italian restaurant?
 
@CarLaTeX No.
 
@Johannes_B Hence you're clever :)
 
@CarLaTeX :-)
@CarLaTeX I have seen videos of restaurants on youtube. And the produce they use. And all the convenience stuff they use. I'd rather cook my own meals.
 
@Johannes_B Now @DavidCarlisle will say you're clever because of you don't attend Italian restaurant
@Johannes_B Oooh are you a good cook like @UlrikeFischer?
 
6:56 AM
@CarLaTeX Well, i like what i cook :-)
 
@Johannes_B That's the most important thing, since you eat it :)
 
7:09 AM
@Johannes_B There's always sausage to put everything else in, or fond.
 
@StephanLehmke Yes.
 
7:53 AM
Does anyone know an example .bib file which I could adapt for inclusion with mwe?
 
@MartinScharrer There's already xampl.bib in the BibTeX core
% Copyright (C) 1988, 2010 Oren Patashnik.
% Unlimited copying and redistribution of this file are permitted if it
% is unmodified.  Modifications (and their redistribution) are also
% permitted, as long as the resulting file is renamed.
 
@JosephWright Wonderful, I hoped for that, as I didn't wanted to create one.
I will just mentioned it in the mwe manual then.
 
@MartinScharrer It could be a good idea to use some fake entries. You never know, perhaps a lot of citations will be registered at different sites if you use real, and that might not be so nice for the people cited. OH I see the problem is solved now...
 
@mickep I was going for "example" entry, i.e. fake ones, anyway
 
8:23 AM
@ChristianHupfer on the proper placement of commas
@JosephWright how long does it take you to run check in 2e base (travis seems reasonably quicker than my machine, which in theory isn't that bad a spec, ssd i7) but it takes about 40 minutes here and 10 on travis..
 
@DavidCarlisle 'A while': I'll check
 
@JosephWright I've just added UseRawEncoding (and reset the catcodes of the C0 controls to 15 for lua/xetex) so I'm possibly done, running check again now
 
8:45 AM
I have to say, seeing an answer that states: Too long for a comment. What you show works fine for me. Please provide a minimal working example should not be an answer.
 
@DavidCarlisle Looks similar here
 
@JosephWright just finished with what I suspect are expected diffs, I'll eyeball those then more checkins on the way...
  Check failed with difference files
  - ../build/test/tlb-utf8-c0.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/tlb-utf8-c0.xetex.diff
  - ../build/test/tltx001.luatex.diff
  - ../build/test/tltx001.xetex.diff
 
9:00 AM
@DavidCarlisle Should I check them?
 
@JosephWright Thanks again. I updated the mwe manual to mention xampl.bib: bitbucket.org/martin_scharrer/mwe/commits/0808d265d2b2
 
@JosephWright no as I say expected, I had moved the catcode settings for chars <32 to rearrange for the latexrelease docstrip guards and ended up with them being left catcode 12 in luatex, decided the old setting was better so put them back to 15, that only affects those tests that are explicitly trying the control codes.
 
@DavidCarlisle We are both keeping Travis-CI busy :)
 
@JosephWright it's still faster than my machine, busy or not :(
 
@DavidCarlisle Yup
@DavidCarlisle I think that's broadly the entire point
 
9:04 AM
@JosephWright I'm wondering if a minimal texlive in the linux subsystem would be quicker
 
@PauloCereda: About bitbucket.org/martin_scharrer/mwe/issues/3/sample-movie-files the link to duck.mp4 is no longer valid.
 
@DavidCarlisle Could be
@DavidCarlisle I'll check I guess
 
You would be surprised how many Google hits there are for duck.mp4.
 
@JosephWright also since this is a dual core machine with 4 virtual processors, I could probably run 4 tests almost as quickly as one, but running etex, xetex and luatex in parallel is a bit tricky as they trash each others build area (I could raise an issue I suppose:-)
 
9:21 AM
@DavidCarlisle :D s/proper placement/weird usage of commas in Anglo-Saxon countries and their former colonies ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer former? did something change?
 
@DavidCarlisle They removed "u" from colour :)
 
@DavidCarlisle Well, in 13th John Lackland lost half of France :D , but since then all has remained its Status Quo ;-)
 
@MartinScharrer Oh my, that's true! My Mac did a wrong sync! I will try to fix it ASAP, sorry!
@Joseph: quite the early bird. :)
 
9:53 AM
@PauloCereda, sure, the animals wake me up early, regardless of the day.
 
@MartinScharrer: fixed the link, deeply sorry.
@Joseph oh
 
@PauloCereda, also found out yesterday that someone downloaded, made a few tweaks, and "sold as his own" a class of mine to an editor.
 
@Joseph holy cow, you gotta be kidding!!
For real?
 
10:09 AM
@Joseph it may be annoying but if you licence it as LPPL you basically allow someone to do that (well you allow them to sell it, not to claim they wrote it)
 
10:39 AM
@DavidCarlisle@PauloCereda, it was a CC BY-NC-SA licence. I wouldn't care in the least if anyone used or modified it as they see fit. What boggled me was that a "librarian" of a huge journal portal wrote to an editor asking for "additional implementations", saying the said editor "wrote the class", most probably sold it (who does this for free?), and now cannot change an iota in the code.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:23 PM
Is it technically possible to do the following?
Start up the pdflatex process once. Send it something to process and get the output PDF. Keep it running. Send more things to process, get the output again. Repeat many times. Now shut the process down.
The goal would be to get rid of the startup overhead.
The catch is that I need the output from the first input before sending the second input.
I would be used with the standalone class, which can output multiple results, but it needs to have all the inputs at once. With normal use, it will only produce output once it has read all inputs.
I assume that what I am asking for is not possible, but I would appreciate some confirmation from knowledgeable TeXnicians :-)
 
@Szabolcs I'm pretty sure that can't be done. If the startup overhead is too much, perhaps you could create a new format with all the packages and fonts you are using preloaded.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I tried that already, but it doesn't seem to help. I assume that the overhead comes from some other startup tasks.
The documents I am compiling are very minimal already and don't use many packages. The overhead is ~0.4 seconds.
I guess I'll explore other strategies to improve performance.
 
@Szabolcs I see. You must be needing a lot of runs, if that is too much overhead.
 
@HaraldHanche-Olsen It's for a Mathematica package that provides a function to convert math-mode LaTeX code to Mathematica graphics. Too often, people use it in a way that the function is called many many times to process tiny bits of LaTeX code (e.g. generating the label of each tick mark in a plot).
It can process more than one but in a single run, but preparing all the inputs at once requires a bit more work, so people often don't do it.
I am trying to improve the user experience.
Another idea is that it could output placeholder objects, which are stored away somewhere else. Then there would be a separate command to process these placeholders all at once.
 
1:09 PM
@Szabolcs It can be done for dvi, so if you can cover the dvi->pdf part efficiently, you're done.
Jonathan fine did this kind of trick with his TeX daemon, see tug.org/tug2001/bulletin/preprints/…
Another idea I had for this purpose: pre-produce a lot of pdflatex processes during idle time and let them wait just before reading the main input file. Then when a specific input needs to be processed, feed it to one of the waiting processes.
 
@JosephWright ctan rejected oberdiek package:(
 
1:31 PM
@marmot Wow! Your 3D version of the Cherenkov duck looks really nice! I bet it would look even nicer with your 3d asymptote duck!
 
@samcarter I was wondering if you want to add it to your nice scientific application answer....
 
1:58 PM
@marmot May I?
 
@samcarter Absolutely. I really like your post, but I thought it might become even a bit nicer if it looks more 3D.
 
next week there will be in Passau the german TeX User Group Meeting. Beside other a serious complex scientific lecture has been announced https://www.dante.de/events/dante2018-1/Programm/vortraege.html#raab. The translation of the abstract: "Visualizing scientific content with tikz-based support"

Tikz is a very flexible code which allows to create high quality
charts and illustrations. It also contains a variety of libraries
and pre-defined elements which facilitate the illustration of
complex problems. This lecture will introduce a package which
 
@marmot Done! Thanks again for creating this nice 3D version!
 
@samcarter ;-)
 
2:13 PM
@UlrikeFischer Oh, someone is talking about the tikzducks? I should go there :)
 
2:26 PM
 
@marmot The duck isn't transformed, to start with :-P
 
@ChristianHupfer I was not aware that the Cherenkov effect transforms ducks. ;-)
 
@marmot I meant the viewing angle.
 
@ChristianHupfer Ducks are invariant under Lorenz transformations.
4
 
@samcarter wouldn't that make the lecturer nervous?
 
2:30 PM
@ChristianHupfer 2D ducks are two-dimensional in any frame.
 
@egreg ... wrotes the man that used potential energy formula and claimed it to be the gravitational force law of Newton ;-)
@marmot It's a 2.5 dimensional approach then ...
 
@ChristianHupfer What's wrong with @egreg's statement?
 
@marmot It's nothing wrong with it, provided Ducks are Lorentz invariant... ;-)
@marmot: So why are ducks invariant under LT? Are ducks a Lorentz scalar or is there a 4 - Duck - Vector whose norm is invariant?
 
@ChristianHupfer "duck" is just a word. I guess we do not have to argue about c, and d, u and k follow by induction (or inducktion ;-)
 
@marmot duc -- could be a down - up - charm quark particle, but the hypothetical 'k' - quark is difficult to find ;-) Duck - particles are not yet in the Standard Modell? ;-)
 
2:49 PM
The yellow one is a duck in disguise
 
Just uploaded mwe, v0.5, 2018/03/30 to CTAN
 
@ChristianHupfer Have you ever wondered why a d-quark is called d-quark? d stands for duck, and the m in M-theory for marmot.
 
Changelog:
Added example movie MP4 file.
Added plain and empty example images.
Added reference to example BibTeX file.
 
@marmot Looks rather like a Yellow mutant of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles to me ;-)
@marmot: Do you know that James Joyce learnt the word Quark on a vacation trip in Freiburg, Germany, when walking on the marketplace near the cathedral? Freiburg is my birth place ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Why?
 
3:04 PM
@ChristianHupfer I didn't know that it's Freiburg, but the rest I knew. Yes, Freiburg is a nice town. I've been often visiting the Kaiserstuhl region...
 
@marmot I live about 30km from that.
 
@ChristianHupfer I guess you can't complain then.
 
@marmot: I wonder if you know some members of the former theoretical physics group there... like Van der Bij?
@marmot No, I live at the mountains, I don't complain about the Rhine valley, the dampy and sultry area :D
 
@ChristianHupfer Van der Bij not too well, no. (Do you get along with him very well ;-) But I chatted with Hatmut Römer a few times. And I cycled once from Kaiserstuhl all the way to Munich, and I really liked the Schwarzwald, especially the stretch along Brigach... (or was it Breg, I forgot)
 
@marmot Breg... that brook, 'river' has it's well about 8 km from here. Impressive, the cycling tour...
 
3:12 PM
@ChristianHupfer I also once cycled across Feldberg (because I lost my way, I didn't want to summit it ;-)
 
@marmot: I hardly know the Dutch fellow -- and I was once tutoring assistant to Hartmann Römer ... and I attended QFT lectures from Pohlmeyer (Oh my...)
 
@ChristianHupfer Oh yes, his name is Hartmann. Pohlmeyer I don't know. One of my cousins is on the faculty in Freiburg, but not in physics...
 
@marmot I am still working on my collection of stick pins
 
@marmot I left the university in 2005 and never really looked back.
@samcarter This proves that elementary particles have smiling faces ;-)
 
@samcarter @ChristianHupfer The TikZ diagram for the particle physics chart has also its origin in Freiburg (but somehow it seems no longer to be in TeXample.net)
@samcarter @ChristianHupfer One may generate a diagram in which the particles are represented by ducks.... this might be real fun ... ;-)
 
3:22 PM
@marmot @samcarter quarkducks package? ;-) (and other members of the particle zoo)
 
@ChristianHupfer Funnily enough also particles with negative charge smile :)
 
@ChristianHupfer precisely ... and the ghosts come from the halloweenmath package
 
@marmot Good idea. Would be suitable for the scientific illustration question :)
 
@samcarter NOW I understand why all your ducks are left-movers ;-)
 
3:28 PM
@samcarter Lol
 
@samcarter @ChristianHupfer In this book the actors would also look better it the actors were ducks and marmots.
 
3:52 PM
@marmot I prefer cats and ameba ;-)
 
user image
5
 
@marmot Is there a yellow quark flavor? ;-)
 
@ChristianHupfer No, the flavors are indicated by the letters, and quarks come in three colors : rot, gelb, blau (green looked too awful ;-)
 
@marmot Oh my, I meant color, not flavor
 
@marmot These are quarcks
4
 
4:04 PM
@egreg Yes, and there is even an m-quark (sold as M(ager)quark in German supermarkets)
 
@marmot That's strange but charming ;-)
 
@marmot The down duck should be upside down.
 
vlg
4:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle Sorry to bother You with longtable questions.. Say a longtable fits 74 rows on a page usually, but has a p column whose content is sometimes greater than the length of the pcolumn, which in a way makes the lines of text >74.
Usually, if the row's pcolumn cell contains 2 lines, one row gets booted to the next page, resulting in a total of 73 rows of the page. However, if there are several multi-lined (3-5) such rows, sometimes one gets a total of 75 rows. Would you happen to know how or why?
 
@marmot Oh! The standard model of ducks!
My version of the charm
	\duck[%
    signpost=\Large c,
    graduate,
    stripes={
      \stripes[color=blue,rotate=0,distance=0.45]
      \stripes[color=red,rotate=0,distance=0.45,initialx=-0.05]
      \stripes[color=green!50!brown,rotate=0,distance=0.45,initialx=0.25]
    }]
@marmot The top quark could wear a tophat!
 
@marmot -- that's a heckuva megaphone! QUACK!!!
3
 
% Standard model of physics
% Author: Carsten Burgard
\documentclass[border=10pt]{standalone}
%%%<
\usepackage{verbatim}
%%%>
\begin{comment}
:Title: Standard model of physics
:Tags: Styles;Decorations;Physics
:Author: Carsten Burgard
:Slug: model-physics

A standard diagram of the current standard model of physics.

In some ways, this was the ultimate, single-diagram user experience
challenge: all of our current understanding of the universe condensed
into a single infographic.

This improved diagram of the standard model of physics was made at
 
@StephanLehmke -- but you probably don't want to watch sausage being made. (something like laws being made, at least in the u.s. ...)
 
Somehow I could not find this diagram any more on Teample.net. (I also removed some minor bugs from the original version other than that the quarks were not represented by ducks;-)
 
4:59 PM
@JosephWright seems like they have added a length limit to the description field, it didn't even show it for an update in the end I just deleted it and left a note saying to use the existing description, we'll see....
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah right
@DavidCarlisle Makes sense for new packages ...
 
@vlg longtable has no record of how many rows are on a page, it just stacks all the rows in a long list and then tex's normal page break algorithm splits off a page depending on various page breaking parameters that might be set
 
@barbarabeeton If I eat it, I can watch it being made ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Things were different when Robin was in charge!
 
I heard all 'merricans love their lobster. Can it get more cruel than that? ;-)
 
5:03 PM
@JosephWright the way to make the description shorter is not to have 95 packages in one bundle, but I can't do much about that today.
 
@DavidCarlisle Indeed
@DavidCarlisle Just wait for Bruno/me to re-code it all in expl3 ;)
(Only partly in jest: more or less everything in the HO bundle will be needed)
 
@JosephWright Petra's sorted it out:-)
 
5:42 PM
For those of you who use version control for paper writing: do you make a repository for each paper or a repository for a project (set of related papers) or for all papers?
 
6:00 PM
@AlanMunn One for each paper. But these days I am also putting together a conference proceedings volume, and I use a single repo for that. It currently has 350 commits.
 
6:18 PM
@AlanMunn I only really work on one document so it's all in one (svn) repo with a 40 year history (actually just back to 2001 in the current svn log)
 
@DavidCarlisle :)
 
@DavidCarlisle That's certainly one strategy. :)
@JosephWright Can you as a mod close with the duplicate pointing to a different site?
 
6:35 PM
@AlanMunn No
@AlanMunn That would make it OT
 
@JosephWright Ok. The question is kind of off topic, but it might be useful to some here, so I'll ask the OP to post a self-answer based on the answer on the MacOS site. tex.stackexchange.com/q/423957/2693
 
@AlanMunn Should I send to the Mac site or has it been asked there?
 
@JosephWright No, it hasn't been asked there, but there's a question there that answers this one effectively.
@JosephWright I think it might be useful just to leave it here if the OP adds an answer.
 
7:18 PM
@AlanMunn Wow, the answer you pointed at certainly qualifies for a “useless use of cat” award. Plus three sed invocations in a pipe where one would do!
Like this for example: sed '/^$/n;s/^/"/;s/$/"/'
Or even sed -E 's/^(.+)$/"\1"/' – but I'll stop there.
 
@JosephWright I type texlua build.lua ctan at top level ... (pdflatex subeqn.tex fails)
 
7:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle Er, that's odd
 
@JosephWright wacky test using \@ifundefined (we should mention that change in ltnews probably)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah, yes, definitely
 
@JosephWright \@ifundefined definitely ?
\tl_if_undefined:nTF or no idea with the new syntax :-)
 
7:56 PM
@StefanKottwitz \@ifundefined has a new definition in the new release
 
@DavidCarlisle Against the old motto: if it ain't broken, don't fix it. ;-)
 
@egreg stop putting escape characters in your comments:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle If they annoy you…
 
@egreg they will be beautifully typeset via the new default encoding:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle \@ifundefined{\@ifundefined}{\def\@ifundefined{\@ifundefined}} or so, hm :)
there will be a better LaTeX3 syntax.
 
8:27 PM
Well, that's just because I tried one year to understand LaTeX3 based on docs (as a LaTeX2e user, IT guy, programmer) and did not get beyond annotations that I just collected over time. Can share, will see.
 
8:39 PM
@StefanKottwitz Well it's mainly expl3 ...
 
@JosephWright xgalley is more clear?
 
@JosephWright remember @StefanKottwitz is German he would prefer \@ifundefineddefinethethingtorelax than \bool_if_undefined_define_to_relax:NTF as the latter almost looks like it has spaces between the words
 
@StefanKottwitz xgalley is more 'interesting'
@StefanKottwitz It is about layers: I think the concepts are all Frank's, but the text is likely mine
 
8:58 PM
@JosephWright What layer of this can I use?
 
@StefanKottwitz the bottom line
 
@DavidCarlisle Nah, galley stuff is all about templates
 
@DavidCarlisle not as user
 
@JosephWright yes, but, ... that's why it isn't used much:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle We really need to look at LDB
 
9:01 PM
 
@StefanKottwitz as a user you should use 2e interfaces
 
@DavidCarlisle That and 'it breaks almost everything'
 
@JosephWright probably like switching to utf8
 
@DavidCarlisle Er
@DavidCarlisle Frank made that decision!
 
@JosephWright i was referring to "breaks everything" rather than who to blame:-)
 
9:06 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yes but it's important to be clear on the latter point!
 
@StefanKottwitz @PauloCereda http://texdoc.net/ “Last update: August 14, 2016”
It would be great if you could update at least when TeX live 2018 is released.
 
@JosephWright especially as the git log might point the blame elsewhere...
 
@HenriMenke You are right! I tried updating and there was an issue that wasn't very easy but manageable and the effort is better spent in a few weeks when TL 2018 is released.
@HenriMenke Will you be in Passau?
 
@StefanKottwitz No, I have relocated to New Zealand last year for my PhD.
 
@HenriMenke Cool! Try the Mermaid Bar in Auckland!
 
9:15 PM
@StefanKottwitz I'm at the other end of the country though (Dunedin). I'll check it out if I ever get to Auckland.
 
any one here by any chance uses texlive under cygwin? I was surprised when I just installed cygwin under windows 7, it comes with texlive. But when I try to compile one of the files, I get error

module 'luaotfload-main' not found:

(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amssymb.sty
(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/amsfonts/amsfonts.sty))
(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/microtype/microtype.sty
(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/microtype/microtype-luatex.def

! LaTeX Error: File `luatexbase.sty' not found.
 
@HenriMenke Check it out. Naked girls swimming in an aquarium at the wall. Like in a movie. Except this, a normal strip bar and in general sushi is good and cheap in that area :-)
@DavidCarlisle Yes, I'll stick to the dead-end 2e for a while :-)
 
I think I should un-install texlive what comes with cygwin, and install texlive myself from tug web site like I did on Linux. Something not right with texlive that comes with cygwin. I can't even do

>tlmgr update --self
tlmgr: action not allowed in system mode on Cygwin: update
 
@Nasser I di but I use the upstream texlive from tug not the one from cygwin
 
@DavidCarlisle thanks. Yes, this is what I about to do.
 
9:26 PM
@Nasser but you have tl2017 there so just update with tlmgr you could install luatexbase (although unlikely you need it with latex after 2015)
@Nasser you would get the same in linux if you install as root and try to update as a user
 
@DavidCarlisle  there is no root in cygwin?

>tlmgr update --all
tlmgr: action not allowed in system mode on Cygwin: update
~>sudo tlmgr update --all
-bash: sudo: command not found
 
@Nasser you can update via the cygwin update tool,m just as on linux if you are using the linux tex you update usiing the the system package manager not tlmgr
 
@DavidCarlisle but I just installed cygwin now? So I assume it installed latest texlive. what do you mean by using cygwin update tool to update texlive?
 
@Nasser well I am sure it will be in one of the optional packages in the cygwin setup utility, but I just checked I haven't got luatexbase in the tex system from cygwin (but I always use the tug version, texlibe 2018 pretest at the moment)
 
This is what cygwin install.exe shows what I installed:
@DavidCarlisle ok, but I will just remove texlive that comes with cygwin and install the official texlive the same as I did on Linux. Hopefully that will work
 
9:36 PM
@Nasser have you got cygwin.com/cgi-bin2/…
@Nasser I just tried a texlive 2017 microtype and it didn't try to load luatexbase
 
@DavidCarlisle thanks ! that was it. cygwin did not install texlive-collection-luatex. Once I installed it, now it works. THis really makes no sense. why would cygwin install texlive but not this important part of it?
But there is still other problems, I need to sort out. Now I get error Style option: `fancyvrb' v2.7a, with DG/SPQR fixes, and firstline=lastline fix
<2008/02/07> (tvz)))

! LaTeX Error: File `newtxmath.sty' not found.

getting texlive to work on cygwin is going to be fun :)
Fixing the above was easy, I just removed
\usepackage[libertine]{newtxmath}
from my Latex for now to make it work on cygwin.
 
10:07 PM
I am finding cygwin much faster compiling latex that using linux in Vbox! I will switch to cygwin. IO is so slow on Vbox writing to windows shared disk.
But there is still few issues to sort out with using texlive on cygwin. such as
(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo(load luc: /var/lib/texmf/luate
x-cache/generic/fonts/otl/lmroman10-regular.luc)))

! LaTeX Error: File `tex4ht.sty' not found.

Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed,

it is going to be a long night.
 
@Nasser it's only important if you use luatex (which is far from the majority) there is a clue in the collection name) but same is true of programs or c libraries or anything else just stick "cygwin collection foo" into google and it will tell you which cygwin package to install
@Nasser just click all the boxes under texive. The only reason i don't have that kind of missing package issue is that I install the full texlive not because I install the one from tug
 
@DavidCarlisle OK. I am new at installing using cygwin. I just took all the defaults.
@DavidCarlisle I have actually everything under "texlive" selected allready.
But I see there is more under "not installed" !! wow. It is so much easier using texlive from TUG. There I do not have to pick and choose. It does it all.
 
10:55 PM
I just found out texlive is version 2015 on cygwin !! Why so old? I noticed this when I went to /use/local and found it saying 2015 there.

This is so confusing. There is /usr/local/texlive/2015, but latex -v says Texlive 2017 so I am not sure really now what version of texlive I am using

texlive>latex -v
pdfTeX 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.18 (TeX Live 2017/Cygwin)
kpathsea version 6.2.3
Copyright 2017 Han The Thanh (pdfTeX) et al.
There is NO warranty.  Redistribution of this software is
covered by the terms of both the pdfTeX copyright and
 
@Nasser: I am not using cygwin for about 15 years by now, but try file which latex, it should report a symbolic link to the real TeXLive directory, (which latex must be quoted with the backticks)
 
@ch
 
hm, so I'm not familiar with this site, but I wonder how has come to be on-topic
 
@ChristianHupfer I used this

~>kpsewhich pgfsys-tex4ht.def
/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/pgf/systemlayer/pgfsys-tex4ht.def

so I do not know what the 2015 is. so may be the /usr/loca/texlive/2015 is link as you say. very confusing. I am assuming I am using 2017 texlive for now :)
@ChristianHupfer the problem is which latex points to /usr/bin/latex on cygwin

~>which latex
/usr/bin/latex

This is different from Linux, where

~>which latex
/usr/local/texlive/2017/bin/x86_64-linux/latex

points to the exact latex, so one knows the version more easily
 
@Nasser That's not the upstream TeX Live, which never stores things under /usr/share.
 
11:06 PM
@egreg it is texlive which comes with cygwin. I just installed cygwin and that what it came with. I normally install texlive from TUG on Linux.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer It's not used so frequently, only 105 total questions, quite a few of which are closed (and some may be mistagged anyway). It probably arose in the very early days of the site, and it still has some uses.
 
I think I gave up on using texlive that comes with cygwin. Too many errors. I will try to uninstall everything related to texlive and install texlive from tug directly. Now I get this new error

(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/hyperref/nameref.sty
(/usr/share/texmf-dist/tex/generic/oberdiek/gettitlestring.sty))
! I can't find file `nameref.4ht'.
<argument> ...meref}\let \label \sv:label \input nameref.4ht

l.29 }

(Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit)

even though I installed everypackage under texlive. Much easier to texlive from tug.
 
@AlanMunn for example, this question seems pretty off-topic to me given general SE customs ("primarily opinion-based")
 
The TeXLive Version reported there is 2017, basically...
 
@EriktheOutgolfer It hardly seems opinion based to me. Either the papers exist or they don't. There may not be a unique answer, but nobody's expressing an opinion in the ones that are there.
 
11:16 PM
well, then I think it's "too broad" or something
seriously though, a "big list" of different answers is something that indicates a question is too broad
 
@ChristianHupfer yes, but I keep getting errors which I do not see in texlive under Linux VBox. I'd rather just install it from tug, ./install-tl one command and it installed everything.
 
@Nasser Using TL directly from the TUG link is the best option in 99.99 of all cases, as far as I know. However, I use it on a real Linux OS and not in a virtualization box .
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Well there are no rules on SE, just general guidelines; each site sets its tolerance for question types itself.
 
@ChristianHupfer linux on VBox is a real Linux OS. There is not difference. I do not think I installed texlive from TUG before on cygwin, I am assuming install-tl will work on cygwin just like on Linux. I'll found out soon :)
 
@EriktheOutgolfer I'm curious what's your interest in raising the issue here?
 
11:26 PM
@Nasser A VBox is a virtualization box, i.e. the guest operation system (linux here) runs on top of another os, the host, which seems to be a Windows system in your case. It's system calls are emulated (to some extent). It might be a real Linux system, but it is not running on its own. Most likely, the system requirements for a TeXLive installation aren't that important, so it can run in box as well.
 
@ChristianHupfer running texlive inside Linux in VBox works just like on Linux on its own PC. The problem its IO is slow, since I use shared disk with windows. So a large build of 100's of latex files takes days instead of may be less than hr or so. But other than performance, there is no other issues.
I've been running latex on one source tree for one week and it is still compiling. I have few thousand latex files there.
 
@Nasser: Why not installing the Linux on a Dual Boot machine and mounting the Windows disk?
 
@ChristianHupfer I need to run linux side-by-side with windows, along side windows. Since I use windows app to edit latex and other things, and use Linux to compile. So I need both at same time.
 
@Nasser I would rather use another machine in addition and export the disk as samba share etc.
 

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