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2:00 AM
@Shog9 Any idea about timeline? Or should I just check in every 6-8 weeks?
 
@thesecretmaster July-ish?
But probably sooner
at least for bits and pieces
Don't assume shit that relies on happy coincidences (like... cookies...) will continue to work until then
 
@thesecretmaster Wait a minute! That is a meme from that one Meta post!
 
If you rely on SO/SE's OpenID login in any way, get that info out on meta now - in detail - so we can plan for some sort of fallback.
Otherwise, it's gonna be jetlagged Nick vs. whoever has been blissfully planning to try & hash this stuff out next week.
 
I was just about to update everything, then I realized that there's no non-openid way to log into chat.
 
2:02 AM
@Shog9 all bots rely on it to some extent. I trust Art to articulate that extent
 
Anonymous
It's okay we can just write our own auth providers and hook them in with the OpenID flow.
 
Anonymous
:|
 
I threw an answer on the meta post. Can add more details if necessary, but will obviously take more time.
 
Definitely don't rely on pinging Nick on Twitter. Good god, the man's dealing with Microsoft and a bunch of techies at some godforsaken conference - have some pity!
 
There's no way around it. All bots rely on it. There's no alternate login flow I can see right now.
 
2:03 AM
@Shog9 Microsoft Building 18, if his latest is to be believed
 
rip
 
@ArtOfCode Are you writing a meta answer? If so, point out that there's no non-openid way to log in to chat right now.
 
s/writing/have written/
 
Besides FB or Google
 
@Shog9 He's the Twitter king, though... When he and John Scalzi are both off Twitter at the same time, my feed is like a ghost town.
 
2:05 AM
@Catija I've said this elsewhere, but... I'm worse than useless on Twitter. I see like 1% of everything in my feed, 'cause Twitter just ditches it all and shows me the most-liked posts under the heading "in case you missed it"
 
i'd rather super glue my eyelids shut than do Google OAuth for it
 
@ArtOfCode Nevermind, I'll write a ChatX answer
 
so I guess we'll have to wait a bit and see how the new login form works
 
I rely on stuff that Tim Stone posts in "This is Fine" for all my Twitter satiation.
 
hahaha you're not the only one then
 
2:07 AM
Well, you follow about 7 times more people than I do, too.
 
SE IPs are 198.252.x series, no?
Seeing hits from those on the RSS feed, but no actual posting of stuff
 
@Undo Yeah, I saw this when I built the API RSS. Never got that working, either.
 
@Catija pretty sure they're all mods, or at least SO users. Terrible people.
 
Chat RSS feeds don't seem to accept valid RSS for some reason
 
@ArtOfCode o.O
 
2:08 AM
try Atom
 
Atom is much nicer to compose anyway
Like someone wrote an actual spec for it
 
Never got the atom version working either :P
 
Anonymous
Can't you just post /users/login {fkey, email, password}?
 
MS API offers both, neither work
 
@JeremyBanks Are fkeys fairly static?
And I thought that required cookies
well... let's look at one that does work
 
2:09 AM
@JeremyBanks the trouble is you have to know what site you have a profile on
 
Anonymous
Ah, that sounds familiar.
 
You do that the same way CE does it. Log into the parent for the chat site you want.
 
@ArtOfCode It's just XML. Write your own that looks like the ones SE generates.
 
this is what I did for the minecraft chat relay, but for that I knew it'd always have a Code Golf profile
it'd probably be OK for SOBotics
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link following arrow in body: dotnet core Http Response Header Content-Type lost by SungBae.Han on stackoverflow.com
 
2:11 AM
@ArtOfCode stackexchange.com doesn't have it obviously
 
@quartata doesn't have what
 
a login route like that. That's why I said it works for SO and MSE but for SE you have to have a site profile you know is there
can't just log in like it's a network thing
 
expect the stackexchange.com login to go away entirely. Don't use that as a replacement.
 
exactly.
that one is the OpenID one
 
Anonymous
stackauth.com/users/login plz
 
2:12 AM
@Shog9 Yep, that's what I based it off. I think the only difference was in date formats
 
Anonymous
I think auto-registering on stackapps would be acceptable. ;P
 
Hey
That... could work
 
The iOS app knows how to create accounts... useful to Wireshark it?
 
I'd have to try and see if logging in via stackapps works
 
2:14 AM
There's some super secret route
 
@Undo oauth surely
doesn't work for chat
 
Anonymous
@Undo I mean adding a new profile, not registering a new account.
 
App knows how to do that, too
 
Anonymous
It's one more button to press in the scraping login flow.
 
Anonymous
"just" "only"
 
2:16 AM
That would work -- or just force bot operators to create the account on stackapps.
 
Hmm, what happened to the stack.chat StackApps post
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Deleted it when I ended up not working on it enough.
 
Anonymous
The code is still on GitHub but it's really incomplete.
 
@ArtOfCode Ever try making the summaries shorter? Maybe that's what it chokes on
 
Anonymous
I was planning to have it do this login through StackApps auto-registration for the SE chat site.
 
2:17 AM
@Undo dunno, probably not
 
I'm trying it
 
Yeah, just came to mind talking about the different unofficial chat.SE API whatchamacallits
 
Also, anyone interested in helping me with a chat project? I'm trying to build a non-centralized bot network that can do things like failing over without a central server, like MS. No real purpose, but it's fun.
 
I had a spec for that somewhere
But I tabled it and now I'm working on Inferno
 
plz send? I'm doing fun things with TLS and mutual auth and stuffs.
 
2:20 AM
also people complained they didn't want to open up their ports
tbh I don't know where it is but I have some notes in chat
 
Question: do we want to require 2 feedbacks on posts? I have some time to do that now if we do.
If we do, do we want it on everything or only 300+?
 
yes, on everything
 
remember this is retroactive :P
 
just double up the feedback on old ones
unless it's conflicted
 
that's not a nice solution
 
2:22 AM
in which case it should hit the review queue anyways
@ArtOfCode maybe not, but it's pretty easy
just use user ID -1
 
easy is not necessarily the right solution
like to get @Undo's thoughts on that too
 
ok, try "best solution that doesn't involve us slogging through thousands of posts"
 
@ArtOfCode to get autoflagged or what?
 
easy is always the right solution
 
I mean don't get me wrong we'll do it but
 
2:23 AM
But no, what's the question?
 
It seems pretty logical (kinda like suggested edits on main site)
 
have like thirty seconds
@ArtOfCode I'd say 'yes', but not retroactive
Hardcoding a timestamp would work. Ugly, but would work
Gotta go. The 'yes' and 'not retroactive' here is not gospel, I'm fine with whatever details you decide.
 
Better idea: anything that has a reviewresult
 
what about 'em
 
2:27 AM
Post goes in the review queue if it has zero feedbacks or only one reviewresult
That would have the benefit of pruning the old stuff
 
that's ~600 posts, manageable
 
make sure it's not a skip
 
Anonymous
/users/login can return a form with an s key that can be posted to /users/openidconfirm { fkey, s, legalLinksShown: 1 } to create the new account.
 
Anonymous
It would be good behaviour to automatically hide that profile too.
 
Anonymous
Which is posting to /users/hidecommunities/$USERID/hide with { siteId, fkey }. If we don't already have the siteId this would require calling the API or something, and maybe not worth it.
 
2:30 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body: Enhancement The key to including by Sun Mornij on apple.SE
 
Why hide it?
 
@JeremyBanks good finds
we'd have the site IDs
 
tpu- by WELZ
 
Anonymous
@Mithrandir Just to avoid affecting the profile in any way as a side-effect of logging in. Most users probably wouldn't care, but some might. Maybe includng me.
 
@SmokeDetector k
@JeremyBanks I'll take your word for it
 
2:36 AM
So today I learned you can do git+https://github.com/Manishearth/ChatExchange and pip will happily install it
We should do that instead of a submodule
 
can you specify a version with that?
 
Yep.
@<hash>
can't believe we missed that tbh
I had no idea
 
Anonymous
submodules are hellll
 
I know right
I won't do it until @ThomasWard is around though since we need a new pip install
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted username, blacklisted website in body, pattern-matching website in body, +1 more: This is SB Garcinia, will it work? by BlackHoo1 on hardwarerecs.SE
tpu- by thesecretmaster
 
2:43 AM
@SmokeDetector autoflagged
 
@WELZ That post was automatically flagged, using flags from: Jake Symons.
 
@WELZ Post This is SB Garcinia, will it work? does not look like spam.
 
Art could just mod-nuke
Ah, is gone
 
yeah, I mod-nuked :P
 
2:45 AM
I'm kinda excited for the day when my site is finally big enough to get any spam
We're approaching our 1 year site-anniversary :)
 
so... does anyone know the route for changing a room from public to gallery?
or granting access
looks like it's /rooms/save and you post the roomId
and write access is /rooms/setuseraccess/<room id>
 
@quartata you summoned me?
 
J F
@Magisch I’m not sure if someone pointed this out to you, but you can use k, f, n, and vin FIRE to send the appropriate feedback. You have to hit enter before the feedback/flag is submitted, and the keys are pretty far apart so it should be harder to misclick.
 
hey look at that it actually worked
pretty simple
params are userAccess=read-write&aclUserId=<id> (needs to be fkey'd)
to remove you do userAccess=remove
@ThomasWard oh hi
I'm about to make a change to requirements.txt. I'll need you to turn off Smokey, run pip install -r requirements.txt, and start it up
 
!!/location
 
2:58 AM
(it'll affect CE is why you have to turn it off)
 
@ThomasWard teward/Solar Flare
 
not yet though
 
@quartata make the change and don't put 'autopull' in the push. We'll do a test-spin with Supernova or Lunar Eclipse, in case it explodes
 
ok
 
3:00 AM
that way if it does explode we'll just relaunch Solar Flare
or switch to another instance
eesh this thing was behind... kicks the system
!!/standby teward/Solar Flare
 
teward/Solar Flare is switching to standby (@quartata)
 
@Undo your SSL cert for erwaysoftware.com expired almost 100 days ago
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 782fad3 (SmokeDetector: Auto watch of go4trial\.com by iBug --autopull) (running on teward/Supernova)
teward/Lunar Eclipse received failover signal. (@quartata)
 
lol
slow system is slow >.>
actually it's that CE invalid int literal problem again
 
Restart: API quota is 19999.
Restart: API quota is 19999.
 
3:03 AM
!!/standby teward/Lunar Eclipse
 
teward/Lunar Eclipse is switching to standby (@quartata)
 
!!/location
 
@ThomasWard teward/Supernova
 
!!/alive
 
@ThomasWard Kinda sorta
 
3:05 AM
all right well I pushed it
 
eesh that's a nasty set of updates
 
hm?
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Supernova)
 
lots of pip module upgrades :P
 
@ArtOfCode took me a bit. You don't want to be using SE post links for the rel=alternate
 
3:08 AM
!!/alive
 
@ThomasWard You doubt me?
Restart: API quota is 19980.
 
!!/location
 
@ThomasWard teward/Supernova
 
@quartata looks like that worked.
 
all right good.
I'll need to do that for every instance...
oh also
 
3:09 AM
bwDraco/Linode received failover signal.
 
!!/migrate_notifications
 
@quartata shoutouts to simpleflips
 
what
oh
 
@quartata MS evil
 
Restart: API quota is 19999.
 
3:09 AM
!!/location?
 
@quartata teward/Supernova
@quartata bwDraco/Linode
 
!!/standby Linode
 
bwDraco/Linode is switching to standby
 
@quartata it took too long to come back up so MS pushed over. I'll handle Solar Flare and Lunar Eclipse shortly.
 
@Shog9 huh, thanks. Not something I'd have figured out :)
 
3:11 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer: "Hello, World!" by a deleted user on codegolf.SE
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Lunar Eclipse)
 
Is there a link that explains why we don't edit spam?
 
cool.
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 2808d8c: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
Okay, changes to require 2 feedbacks on every post pushed.
I went with duplicating feedback. It's nasty, but it does work and it annoys me less than hardcoding a date.
 
[ SmokeDetector ] SmokeDetector started in standby mode at rev 2689dd4 (quartata: Adjust imports for CE) (running on teward/Solar Flare)
 
3:14 AM
@ArtOfCode Do you think that it would be OK to have the bot post the question for a town hall, or do you think it would be better to "voice" (give write access) to the user and let them ask it themselves?
(in the setup I described earlier)
 
@quartata all of my Smokey instances are up with the latest changes, so until the rest are fully updated with the pip updates, feel free to rotate between those three - Supernova, Solar Flare, and Lunar Eclipse
 
[ metasmoke ] ci/circleci success on 2d93ecd: Your tests passed on CircleCI!
 
@ThomasWard thanks!
 
New metasmoke user 'NooBskie' created
 
@quartata let the user do it
 
3:16 AM
@ArtOfCode all right.
that means that we can't really moderate the questions though
 
huh?
 
although it's a lot less work for me
 
we can moderate just as well as we can always moderate chat
 
@ArtOfCode well my plan was they'd submit the question via a form during the event. so everyone would see what questions were coming up and if it was abusive garbage we could just drop it before it got posted
 
if it's abusive garbage then the person submitting it doesn't need to be here and will get kicked
 
3:18 AM
fair enough
 
@ArtOfCode if you feel like playing with it, here's what chat uses internally
if that can't parse it, neither can chat
the caveat is that your feed parsed just fine... It just tried to onebox or some shit
so make sure your feed doesn't look too much like a SE feed ;-)
 
Ah, gotcha. Cheers, I'll see what I can make with it
got a test running in a test room without the SE links
 
that reminds me that SE's written in .NET compliant code... shivers (sorry, I have bad experiences trying to roll out .NET applications historically... it's why I prefer open source software solutions to .NET/IIS)
 
@ArtOfCode oh hey... This might save you a wee bit of frustration: when you're testing this stuff, keep in mind that chat will only post an entry with a given <id> once per room. Ever.
So... Y'know... If you're generating a bunch of test files, don't re-use the IDs, 'cause you'll be tearing your hair out wondering why the one that just worked 5 minutes ago isn't working now.
 
... this has the ring of "I've been there" to it.
 
3:24 AM
what? No. I totally didn't waste like 40 minutes not realizing that.
 
Hm, do feeds need <id>s? That might be why mine are broken.
 
No
Entries do though
 
bahaha, good to know :)
 
Actually, if you're doing RSS they might. I really can't remember. RSS is such a trainwreck.
Atom though... I haven't messed with it in, oh, gotta be over a decade. But I built an entire app around it back then. UI, API, reports, the whole bit. So clean.
Want to love XML? Atom.
Want to hate XML? RSS.
Want to LOATH XML? Soap.
 
Instead of feeds, I propose we mail stickers with each feed item printed on them.
 
3:31 AM
soap is awful
can't believe we had to put up with that for so long
xml-rpc too
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, link at end of body, link following arrow in body, pattern-matching website in body: to decrease their extraneous teeth stains from home by JasonLoweo on drupal.SE
tpu- by thesecretmaster
 
The demos were so nice though. Discoverable APIs! Open Data!
(...incompatible formats. inscrutable errors.)
 
If you want to do open data, make all your stuff JSON. In my opinion.
 
If you want to do open data, sanitize that data first. Then pick literally any format that doesn't require it to be sanitized again.
JSON. YAML. XML. CSV...
...in a text encoding that doesn't require you to guess at what character was intended 30,000 records in.
worst part of the XML-fad days were folks shoving unstructured, unsanitized data into an XML shell without doing any cleanup first.
 
3:45 AM
JSON and UTF8 for most of our stuff, I believe
 
all right got the chat part of the grill done, now just for the web part
@Shog9 hehe
 
A J
Morning all!
 
fp- by A J
 
A J
where are all people?
Why do I have to give the access token to FIRE two times?
 
4:03 AM
New computer?
Sometimes when I register it, it takes four or five... so two isn't bad.
 
A J
@Catija no the same computer. First, I give it a token and feedback, and then if I try to load FIRE popup next time, it doesn't load. So, I have to refresh the page and it asks me for new token.
 
New metasmoke user 'user7156122' created
 
A J
I am not sure, but aren't we letting spammers know about this Charcoal project, which might make them find a way to post spams we cannot catch? I have no doubt, but this could be a possibility.
or worse, a page to show to their client that their links are visible somewhere.
 
4:22 AM
oh hey Marshal on GD
and a [feature-request] bronze tag badge on MSE
 
Any recommendations for an ActionCable-esque websocket server for Python
 
A J
@ArtOfCode congrats
@ArtOfCode another congratulation. :P
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, pattern-matching website in body, pattern-matching website in title, +2 more: gomusclebuilding.com/vandexafil-ultra/ by EdwardGolly on puzzling.SE
tpu- by ArtOfCode
 
4:40 AM
@quartata I tried it a couple of times and it was simple and reasonably pleasant, but I haven't really run it on a public IP address ever
 
Do you prefer it over Flask (if you've used that before)?
 
I simply found the simplest thing I could possibly grok and it worked for me, it's not like I build dynamic web sites for a living
 
I'm going to build Halflife a dashboard which is why I ask
want something you can work with too
 
like the name implies, it's a simplification of Flask (which in turn I understand is by and large a simplification of Django)
@quartata oooh
 
The idea is that Metasmoke will split off into Inferno (storing posts, feedback, doing autoflagging for all bots) + Halflife (specifically our stuff; domain tracking, etc.)
so I'm going to work with the analysis stuff you already have (and keep the websocket of course)
I've got quite a couple things to work on so I can't say a when though
 
4:45 AM
it really should be redone so that it spits JSON instead of raw log output, possibly to a specific websocket path rather than just /
I was thinking I should perhaps structure it into a set of microservices where PulseMonitor would be the "chat front end" and well yours then if it materialized would be a "web front end" (which is not actually something I had in mind; but it sounds nice)
so the websocket could be more granular, listen to /everything and you get roughly the current output, listen to /posts and you'd get just a ping when it receives a new post, that sort of thing?
 
The trouble is that we need some stuff stored in a database
Like the domains Metasmoke stores
 
hence why I was going to build it in Halflife rather than as a client to it
 
@quartata the database back end can still be a separate microservice, just tell me what Halflife needs to send and where
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, username similar to website in answer: SQL Server Stored Procedure - Hotel Management System by thehotelschool on stackoverflow.com
tpu- by ArtOfCode
 
4:50 AM
Hmm...
Yeah I suppose that's true...
 
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] URL-only title, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, blacklisted website in title, +3 more: www.revivalantiagingcream.com/regen-a-cream/ by roniteqwik on askubuntu.com
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad NS for domain in body, bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, blacklisted website in body, link at end of body, +1 more: Bioflex Pro fdsa by user803007 on askubuntu.com
tpu- by tripleee
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body: \*\*\* DELETE \*\*\*\*\*\* DELETE \*\*\* by Felipe Solís on serverfault.com
tp- by ArtOfCode
 
github.com/Charcoal-SE/SmokeDetector/pull/1684 <- add EJoshuaS to SOCVR, anyone with code privileges to approve this please?
 
tpu- by tripleee
 

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