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12:21 AM
Whoooo yeeeah
Exactly 12000 reputation \o/
 
12:46 AM
A thread about worldbuilding (yes another one) or: why wordbuilders should read world history by me, a humble Twitter trashcan
 
@Sandwich You've also currently got one of the most-active metas I've seen in probably a year =)
 
hey there @nitsua60
 
1:04 AM
Well its a contentious subject Nitsua
And I did attempt make a pretty good argument as to why they should be on-topic
 
Hey, so remember a long time ago when we were having that debate on whether or not cantrips can be cast at a higher level according to RAW (Jeremy's statements disqualified)?
 
hey there @SoraTamashii
 
If you have heighten spell you can cast anything at a higher spell level :thinking:
 
@Shalvenay hiya
 
The usefulness of a cantrip cast as a 9th level spell isn't a very good use of a ninth level spell slot though
So you have to gauge that when you're attempting to Heighten a cantrip
 
1:14 AM
@nitsua60 how're things going? one lonely study hall eh?
 
Look what I found according to Ritual: "It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level." This also supports cantrips not being able to be cast as higher versions of the spell.
 
Ritual spells.. So you're talking about 5e bunkus then
 
Also, Sandwich, isn't that in 3.5? This debate regarded 5e
Yeah. Referencing a specific debate that was had a couple weeks ago.
 
Heighten spell doesnt even work the same way in 5e (Which is dumb, but whatever I don't really play much 5e)
 
Yeah, I kinda remember it from 3.5 a long time ago. Honestly, my familiarity is mostly 5e, though,
 
1:25 AM
@Sandwich -- you have to realize that you're a fan of a game type (very-high-power/magic fantasy) that 5e basically explicitly disavows to a degree (by embracing bounded rationality re: power management), and that's fine. it's not that 5e is broken, what you wan't to do isn't its intent to begin with, so there's nothing wrong with you sticking to 3.5e for what you're doing, you just have to realize that 5e supporting what you do conflicts with its other design goals
 
1:41 AM
hey again @SoraTamashii
@nitsua60 btw: take it you're waiting for the rest of the crowd to turn up re: session 0 scheduling for ToA?
 
1:55 AM
@Shalvenay helping a kid with some homework =\
 
@nitsua60 ah
 
Hey Sha
 
@NautArch Well, I post a question because I want to know the right answer. If I just wanted to use my inexperienced opinion, I could just do so all by myself. :)
 
@SoraTamashii how're things going?
 
Okay, I've finally got to ask (about a conversation that starts here): what did they think "RPG" stood for?
 
2:10 AM
@nitsua60 I have no freakin' idea
 
(I'm expecting to get some interesting headcanon candidates from this room--bizzare reverse-acronyming seems to be a specialty around here.)
 
RPG may refer to: == Armed forces and military == Rocket-propelled grenade, a shoulder-launched anti-tank weapon Regulation Prescription Glasses, another name for GI glasses Russian-language acronym for: Ruchnoi Protivotankoviy Granatomyot, hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher: RPG-2 RPG-7 RPG-16 RPG-18 RPG-22 RPG-26 RPG-27 RPG-28 RPG-29 RPG-30 RPG-32 Ruchnaya Protivotankovaya Granata, hand-held anti-tank grenade: RPG-6 RPG-40 RPG-43 == Media and entertainment == Role-playing game, in which players act out the roles of characters in a narrative game Role-playing video game, a type of video game...
 
Maybe "RPG Planning Group"?
 
@nitsua60 no idea
I don't think he was after a Report Program Generator :P
 
2:30 AM
@Shalvenay check your inbox
 
@nitsua60 ah.
I have a couple of questions -- not sure if I should raise them in email or on Discord though because they may be slightrly spoilery to folks who haven't played ToA
 
@Shalvenay either discord or e-mail's fine--whichever seems to make more sense. I figure I'll gather questions that come up and send another blast when there's a sensible mass to share.
(Oh, are these questions for me or for the group?)
 
@nitsua60 you-questions, don't have any group-questions yet
 
Then e-mail if you want, or discord if it's more of a chat?
 
@nitsua60 discord works
 
2:41 AM
I really just want to answer the current question with
 
hey there @ro_the_electron, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
2:58 AM
[5e] off the top of one's head: what's a MM monster with multiattack
 
@nitsua60 scout
or is that not monstrous enough?
 
sorry--let's go for a beast
 
@nitsua60 rakshasa
 
@Shalvenay hey! thank you, first time here
 
@ro_the_electron what brings you around these parts?
 
3:06 AM
Well, I was just granted the right to come into a chat room today and clicked the invite link out of curiosity
 
3:30 AM
@Shalvenay thanks
 
3:43 AM
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
@nitsua60 I wanted to answer with "why the heck not?" but that doesn't meat RPGSE standards
Hi @Shalvenay
 
@KorvinStarmast how're things going?
 
I have new headphones, and am listening to old awesome 70's tunes on youtube.
Currently Head East's Never been any reason
Previous was Bad Finger "Come and Get it"
next up is Uriah Heap "Sealin'"
 
@KorvinStarmast nice. what's the schedule look like for us wrapping up our game?
 
Tomorrow is good.
Good for you?
930 Friday nite ... ok with you?
 
3:45 AM
@KorvinStarmast yup, works for me :)
 
OK, see you then.
 
@KorvinStarmast did you see my e-mail?
 
4:31 AM
"Also Somebody's Indie Band" would be a good name for a band.
@nitsua60 I'm guessing he's used to seeing the phrase "role-playing" used in the sexytimes sense.
 
@BESW Wow. That never occurred to me. I'm not sure if that says something about them or about me =)
 
I've encountered a handful of people for whom that's the only way they've ever encountered the phrase.
This 1920s song inspired this 1960s painting. Both are awesome in their own ways.
(Also, anyone complaining about modern singer/band names needs to listen to Jelly Roll Morton's Red Hot Peppers.)
 
4:46 AM
Okay, I may try to play a [5e] grappler soon. [Duergar|Firbolg|Goliath|Human|Bugbear|Orc] [Barbarian(Battlerager!?)|Druid|Fighter] with a possible dip in [Bard|Rogue] for expertise?
 
I assume that Battlerager!? is the actual name of the feature, including the punctuation.
 
Yeah. Although in the correct font it's all spiky-like, too.
Speaking of which, did you see Just My Type? It might be up your alley, or it might be too dumbed-down for you, I dunno.
 
I am reading it!
Typography is one of my weak spots; I was trained in graphic design from the art end forward.
 
@BESW Cool--I read it back when it came out, and every time I look at anything that talks about design or lettering I find myself wishing I knew its contents rather than just having read its contents =\
 
You might like Typeset in the Future.
 
5:00 AM
@nitsua60 probably both sheltered sheepie (sorry that one is horrible I know)
 
TitF's examination of 2001 is my go-to example for people curious about why type choices matter.
 
@BESW Wow. That's getting bookmarked.
 
Sha, pretty good. You?
 
Multi-Attack . Aboleth, I think most angels, Animated Armor, Behir, Bugbear Chief, Bullywug, Carrion Crawler, Chimera, Chuul, Cloaker, Cyclops, Death Knight, most demons, Tyranasauraus Rex, Displacer Beast, Dopplegaanger, all but the ancuent bearded of dragons, Drider, all the Elementals, Drow Elite Warrior, Ettercap, Ettin, Flameskull, Formorian, Violet Fungus, Gargoyle, Dao, Djini, Marie, Giants, my favorite the gibbering mouthed, Githyankis, Gnolls, Goblin Boss, Clay Golems....
@nitsua60 ... ♤ those plus... Gorgon, Grell, Grick,
 
5:38 AM
 
@BESW this an episode? XD
 
It's the episode that aired this week.
 
ah
 
That's Chat Emperor Supreme Jeff, thankyouverymuch.
 
6:03 AM
@nitsua60 Perhaps Really Pervy Girls?
Thats the closest thing I could come up with that someone might extrapolate if they knew nothing about RPGs
@Shalvenay And yes I realize that, but 5e could've nerfed the piss out of casters without killing concentration
 
 
2 hours later…
7:59 AM
@Magician no one cares about the Chat Emperor, he sucks
:P
 
 
2 hours later…
9:43 AM
> Pugilist. You can use Lore to summon small flat-faced dogs.
 
10:04 AM
@BESW amazing
 
10:20 AM
@doppelgreener I know, right.
Also it's got D&D players as the hapless mortals of the week.
Jenkins lectures them on the inaccuracies of the 5e Monster Manual.
 
Lol
 
@BESW brilliant
... I want to see Jenkins wind up on the set of Stranger Things, and lecture people condescendingly about what they're dealing with and how they're dealing with it.
 
 
2 hours later…
12:36 PM
@trogdor Chat treason! The sentence will be traditional: confinement to a tag, effective immediately.
 
lol
 
Oh no, he escaped
 
tag confinement, how quaint
 
There, better
 
lol
 
12:37 PM
Gah!
 
if he can't even show up to enforce his own tag imprisonment clause then whats even the point?
 
Sigh. Go ahead, flaunt your freedom. We've descended into chat anarchy.
 
Wait, is that what happened to Chat Emperor Supreme Jeff? Has he been sealed away in a tag?
 
The mystery of his disappearance is beginning to be uncovered!
 
12:54 PM
heheheh MUAHAHAHAHAHA!
sorry continue to wonder, yes
 
1:13 PM
@nitsua60 I'll check that email account later this morning. Will respond.
 
@BESW @trogdor Are you still around? I should be good to join you tomorrow and will see if I can prepare something for us to play. Any thoughts on what you'd like to try?
 
oh you want to GM?
 
Yeah, why not. :)
I mean if you're planning something already I'm game for that too.
Last few times I recall BESW wasn't ready for anything that would need prep.
 
1:32 PM
no I have no immediate plans
I do want to run another GSS sometime but had no plans for today
 
ok :)
 
> The Belgian Parliament has voted to continue its decades-long practice of supplying free booze to lawmakers, despite several incidents of unpleasant, drunken behavior, because the alternative is going back to having to drag elected officials out of the local bars when it's time to vote.
 
err tomorrow
 
@trogdor To err is human
 
lol
 
1:56 PM
how is everybody doing this lovely [insert local morning/afternoon/night]?
 
@Rubiksmoose Doing just fine this morning.
 
@nitsua60 OK, email response sent. Hope I addressed all points effectively.
 
@nitsua60 If your GM allows the UA Feats for Skills, you can pick up the Brawny feat which gives you Expertise in Athletics, and makes you count as a larger size for carrying capacity. If you go Goliath and Totem: Bear at 6th level Barbarian, you Count as Gargantuan Size for carrying capacity, so you could literally suplex an Ancient Dragon.
 
I don't know what it is about Pancho and Lefty, but it gets me every time, no matter who covers it. Something about the original, though, from someone without the best singing voice ever, is grittier and deeper.
I first heard it on a Willy Nelson album, but when I dug down and found the original, that's when the song hit me.
@Randomorph But only count as huge for combat/battle, right?
or still back to large?
 
2:13 PM
@KorvinStarmast You'd only be Medium for all other factors. Just your carrying capacity increases with all three of those features (Goliath: Powerful Build, Totem: Bear @6, and Brawny Feat).. But it's reasonable to say if you can carry as much as an Ancient Dragon could, you would be also strong enough to grapple enormous creatures too
 
@Randomorph Good te hear :)
 
@Randomorph Yeah, interesting visual comes with that, though.
 
@KorvinStarmast oh yes, quite hilarious to picture a tiny Goliath jumping up at a Dragon, grabbing it's wings together, then knocking it on it's side
 
Back to Pancho and Lefty: Emmy Lou Harris did a nice cover, but as silky as her voice is, I was hoping for a slightly stronger cover.
(Nashville has been ruining country music for a long time ... which is why the outlaw movement arose in the 60's and 70's)
 
@KorvinStarmast Carrying capacity of 300 with 20 Str. If you're large that becomes 600. If you're Huge that becomes 1200. If you're gargantuan that becomes 2400. If you're a 20th level Barb (24 str) that becomes 360 -> 720 -> 1440 -> 2880.
 
2:18 PM
Man, that's a lot of beer.
 
All the beer. You could carry a small brewery.
With a gnomish worker
 
A full keg of beer weighs approximately 170 lbs.
 
So somewhere in the ballpark of 13-15 Kegs
 
Just enough for a dwarven wedding, thinks I.
 
@KorvinStarmast only for the bridal party
 
2:20 PM
In my brothers campaign, I play a life cleric serving the deity of beer: Stahnuld.
 
@Randomorph Now that is what I call a kegel exercise.
 
@KorvinStarmast "Beer is the water of life! NOW DRINK IT!" forcefully trying to make a mortally injured man drink beer
@KorvinStarmast If it's 5e, you should ask your brother to let you prepare the Healing Elixir UA spell, and flavour it as healing beer.
 
@Randomorph It's more like "I bless thee I by the barrel, the foam, and the holy nectar" (and then the beer is offered)
He already gave me a free cantrip: Bless the Beer. It renders any beer that has gone bad to be good beer.
 
Heh that's always nice. (The UA for anyone interested)
 
@Randomorph We generally don't use UA, there's enough variety in the published material for our tastes.
 
2:25 PM
@KorvinStarmast yeah that's fair, as a GM, and with my GM, we handle each UA thing on a case by case basis. If someone sees something and would like to try it, whoever the GM is looks it over and either allows it or says no. We don't have much UA, but a few of the new feats and one or two new spells.
 
top o my morn, all
 
Maybe at a later level I'll bring that up and see what he thinks. Seems decent idea and it would fit into our game thematically.
 
@NautArch Morning Naut
 
@Randomorph a lot of those UA starter spells made it officially into Xanathar's, too.
 
One of our players, who I've known since high school, works for a beer distributor. We all like beer. IT's what we take breaks to get another one of.
 
2:26 PM
@KorvinStarmast Yep, it's only a first level spell, and it's roughly like how Goodberry works, although less versatile
 
Heh, I went magic initiate to get that nice goodberry cheese, and to put shillelagh on my club.
 
@KorvinStarmast Yeah goodberry is great on life clerics. Healing Elixir is basically just a free healing potion out of unused slots. It's better for a burst heal than goodberry (since you can only eat one berry at a time), but all the healing is focused on one creature, and it's randomized, so it's less flexible
 
I have decided to eschew edged weapons, thematically. (Has to do with the back story and the assassin who killed the character's father ...)
 
Hmm, looks like they turned Healing Elixir (1st level) into a Healing Spirit (2nd level)
 
@NautArch I'd say not really. Veeeeery different spells and classes having access to it
@KorvinStarmast You should have Weapon Proficiency (Beer Bottle)
 
2:29 PM
@KorvinStarmast Blunt force is always fun. My paladin used a maul almost exclusively until my DM random treasure provided a trident and a halberd.
 
heck, my brother will probably reskin any healing potion I make during down time to beer anyway, since I was raised in a monastery as a teenager, where they brewed beer ... as any self respecting monastery Does.
We have a shared world, but he is the original architect, and by his choice it is sparse on deities. I was the one who proposed that the dwarven deity of beer, Stahnuld, be my cleric's deity, and given our groups IRL love of beer, that went over very well.
My small contribution to world building ...
 
@NautArch same to you!
 
@KorvinStarmast Beer for the beer god! Hops for the hop throne!
 
our current adventure has us investigating the confiscation of hops and crops, and beer going bad ... peril most dire for the local county!
 
@SPavel I'd think excessive boozing would be more of a Slaanesh thing :P
 
2:35 PM
@Randomorph No such thing as excessive boozing
 
@Spavel Spoken like the Russian naval officer I had breakfast with one morning: I had coffee, he had vodka
 
@KorvinStarmast Hey, don't go blaming it on the Ruskies, the British invented the first cocktails (lime juice mixed with rum)
Staves off scurvy and leaves you feeling great
 
@SPavel I used to think that, but every year I feel like it takes less beer to make me regret it the next day.
 
@SPavel There is no blame, there is observation of real life. I am a big fan of the gin and tonic, as it keeps away the scurvy. Naval traditions have value ...
 
@KorvinStarmast Actually modern tonics are likely to have little or no quinine
 
2:37 PM
Yeah, but scurvy is kept away with vitamin C, hence the lime in the G&T. A gimlet also suffices.
IIRC, the quinine was good versus malaria ....
 
@KorvinStarmast Lime? I must be making it wrong
 
OH dear, I've never had a G&G without lime.
 
What I do is: mix 1 shot of gin with 2 oz of tonic, pour directly into the trash, and drink whiskey instead
 
One on wedge, or slice, and sometimes I rub the lime around the rim...
 
@KorvinStarmast and also why the British were called Limeys.
 
2:39 PM
@SPavel I've begun to prefer rye as the whiskey of choice .. smoother than bourbon. A smooth scotch will, however, never be refused. Just don't overdo the peat/iodine.
 
@KorvinStarmast Try infusing cheap whiskey with coffee beans or cocoa nibs
 
@KorvinStarmast When I drank, jamison neat was my drink of choice. Well, along with stouts and porters.
 
Had a friend who swore by everclear. He was a pastor in the Universal Life Church. Oy.
 
I'm usually skeptical of mixing beer with liquor, but whiskey + stout works very well
@KorvinStarmast Isn't that the one where anyone can become a pastor
 
@SPavel An Italian naval officer introduced me to zambuca with 'bugs' ... either five or seven coffee beans in it.
@SPavel yeah, he mailed away and got his ordination, in 1976, while a senior in high school.
Hmm, I now discover that I've been spelling it wrongly all these years ... Sambuca.
 
2:44 PM
@KorvinStarmast I'm sure they spell it with a z somewhere
 
@KorvinStarmast I generally preferred Raki over Sambuca
 
Although as far as italian beverages go, grappa is where it's at
 
@KorvinStarmast Lime is essential!
@SPavel Limoncello is pretty great as well
 
I prefer Raki to grappa, though they are similar. The best Raki I ever had was on the Island of Crete. Limoncello is best when made from Sorrento lemons.
(Or any lemons from the Amalfi coast ...)
 
@KorvinStarmast Did you drink it while eating watermelon? Or those hard green plums?
 
2:46 PM
Limoncello is ok, I prefer just eating the lemon separately
Drizzled over some grilled eel
 
Hmm, I have a friend who grows Meyer lemons. I wonder if we ought to try and make limoncello from them. She no longer drinks, so that may be a non starter.
 
You should be able to ferment lemons directly into alcohol
 
As the saying goes, "When life gives you lemons, make liquor"
 
OK, the apocalypse is truly upon us. Reba McEntire is the new Colonel for KFC's ads.
Limoncello made in the backyard is made with grain alcohol, water, sugar, lemon zest, and IIRC a small amount of lemon juice. I'll go and dig up the recipe.
tonight, it's in an old file that I think I can locate
 
@MikeQ That's the way that the lemons become combustible
Then you can use them to burn Life's house down
 
2:53 PM
@SPavel "Get mad! Demand to see life's manager!"
 
@KorvinStarmast It is super easy and I've done it! gizmodo.com/…
@KorvinStarmast I'd be super interested in that as well if you wouldn'e mind sharing with me :)
@SPavel Love that game so much
 
@KorvinStarmast I love the KFC ads. Almost as much as what Burger King has been doing
 
@NautArch that BK thing is great actually
 
@NautArch brilliant work
 
Yeah, whomever their agency is is killing it. Interesting how their recent ads are about brand/company values and not their product, though.
 
3:04 PM
@NautArch Honestly, everyone more or less already knows what their product is. If they can get value loyalty, they might be able to steal a decent market share from McDonald's
For an example, look at how successful Wendy's viral twitter stuff was.
 
@Randomorph and maybe commercials about Chicken Fries are pushing people away :)
 
@NautArch Companies don't sell products anymore, they sell lifestyles
Selling products is an industrial age idea
 
@NautArch I think that's strongly reflective of a change in how people choose to do business nowadays. Products are usually of very high quality between all major competitors for a specific thing — but we want to do business with those that advance causes and values we share. People are actually practicing the "vote with your money" notion for social good.
 
If all you sell is a product, your product becomes commoditized and you have no margins
 
very very true @SPavel and @doppelgreener. Most of my marketing work for my company is not about the product, but about educating people about their disease and also about how different we are as a company from the competitors.
 
3:17 PM
@Randomorph I'd probably be playing it in AL, so no UA allowed. But it's only a 1-level rogue dip to grab expertise in athletics, and I'm really partial to rogue dips. What it comes down to, for me, is whether I want to be a "grapple and prone and let everyone else whale on them" sort vs. a "grapple and move people around" sort. That'll probably force the decision on human+shield master vs. the "powerful build" races (Goliath, Orc, Bugbear, Duergar, &c.)
@KorvinStarmast Cool--thanks. I'll probably get back to it this evening.
 
I've dealt with having clinical depression, and for example if you were marketing depression medication to me I would completely ignore it and tune it out. However if you were a company giving me information and assistance learning how to deal with it, treat it, work with and around it, find therapy groups and avenues for support etc — I'd look on your brand kindly.
If you had medication or other products, I'd be inclined to think hey, that's the company that's been helping me out. I need a thing like this, so if I buy it I'm funding them to keep doing what they're doing and we can both hel
 
Who needs "giving information and assistance" when you can just have an ad campaign of people being happy followed by "ask your doctor if ripping a rail of coke off a toilet seat in the Ritz bathroom is right for you"
 
@SPavel That's a neat ad campaign that I'd like to see, once recreational cocaine is legalized in the usual places. Heck, I remember back in the 1970's how common and basically accepted it was for movie stars and jet setters to be tooting up on the ski slopes ... we live in a different world. People wore their coke spoons on necklaces at discos ...
Robin Williams, who did his share of coke back in the day, had a self deprecating joke: "Cocaine is God's way of telling you that you have too much money."
 
2
Q: I want my players to face clones of themselves as a Boss. How do I run them without making it too hard or going easy on them?

Cyrius N.I'm running a custom RPG with a group of six players. (For the curious, it is based on the universe of Boktai, an old GBA game; not useful for the answers.) We are pretty far into the campaign and the players are getting pretty close to face the final boss, who is a invoker-type wizard. He prev...

This needs to be closed and the question worked on IMO
 
Why the hurry to close it?
 
3:30 PM
@SPavel genius
 
@Rubiksmoose Unsure if it's close-worthy but I agree that it's a very subjective question. Being a good DM/GM is an art, not a science. "How do I judge X" is very context-dependent and hard to give a definitive solution.
 
@Rubiksmoose I made a small edit to the bottom line question. I am not convinced it needs to be closed.
I do think that a bit more info might be helpful.
 
this ^^ hangs in our department
 
@nitsua60 Love It.
 
@MikeQ I think it has merit but need to be worked on in order to get good answers. But maybe I'm off base here.
@KorvinStarmast Don't we close questions here based on how they are now? If we need more info then it should be put on hold until that info is provided right? To prevent a flood of useless or incorrect answers?
 
3:34 PM
@Rubiksmoose If you estimate that a question needs major changes (however you quantify that), then it should be closed until then. And usually that means the responsibility to fix it falls on the original asker.
 
My suggestion is to engage in attempts to improve as a first response.
 
Yes, close based on what they are, regardless of what they could potentially be. Once it is suitable to have open, then it can be reopened.
 
@KorvinStarmast Interesting, I've seen questions go way off the rails as they were worked on without being closed and many answers becoming irrelevant after the edits. So, the policy I've seen around is close first, work on it, then open again so that you don't havea mess of irrelevant answers in the meantime.
 
@Rubiksmoose That is a summary of why we close first, yes.
There's a difference between "some more information would be nice" and "some more information is necessary to make this baseline workable at all", the second is a close-first scenario.
 
@MikeQ My biggest question is how are we supposed to address the issue of balance without knowing anything about the system? Balance is hard enough even with an in-depth knowledge on one system. I'm not even sure how it is possible outside of one.
The answers thus far seem to be "here's my advice for how to design the fight" without truly answering the issue of balance.
 
3:39 PM
@Rubiksmoose Oh that is certainly true. I think the community can, at best, provide a list of suggestions and general tips.
 
@MikeQ But are not questions whose only answers are " list of suggestions and general tips" considered not suitable for SE?
I'm asking honestly here, because I'm still learning these things.
 
@Rubiksmoose I doubt it. There are plenty of questions like that. Granted, I'd say that they usually aren't very worthwhile questions, and are better suited for a discussion forum... however some of them are generalizable enough to address on SE.
 
@doppelgreener thanks!
@MikeQ makes sense. Well, I've cast my vote, we'll see how it goes eh?
 
Aha, here it is on meta. One of my earliest meta questions on the site:
10
Q: What do we do with answers made obsolete by a question change?

doppelgreenerThere's a current case of an infrequent problem: Why is Donjon offline? Dakeyras's answer was a response to a question that was once there. It was made in good faith, and is a helpful answer. The part of the question it was responding to no longer exists, and if the question were asked in this ...

I don't have a great answer, but this is why it's important to quickly place questions in need of editing on hold. — C. Ross Jun 27 '13 at 12:47
 
My vote hinges on the fact that without knowledge of the system, there is no way to answer this question.
 
3:43 PM
(C.Ross being a former mod, who was active until 2015)
 
hmm, think it's worth linking to MyGuy for this?
the build seems very my guy, but the Q&A could be read as confrontational.
 
@NautArch I'd say it is worth it. It's hard to say how much of it is in play, but it is often something new RPGers aren't watching out for.
 
@NautArch phrase it non-pointedly as something like " as an aside you might want to read about my guy syndrome since it sounds relevant to your games, and sometimes causes problems, so if any come up you could identify them."
They can read about it (or not), take it on board, and then if and where they encounter things they're unhappy with they might recognise it themselves.
Notably it's not necessary to dissuade then or anything. If it's not causing problems then all is well.
 
@nitsua60 That's a shame. Either way, going the Powerful-Build route lets you be more aggressive with bigger creatures, either to shove or to grapple. Also either way Shield Master helps if you want to shove them prone then grapple them, as it gives you the shove as a bonus action.
 
@NautArch also you may want to remove the phrase "frame challenge" I believe the current meta thinks it is too technical to reference directly in answers.
@doppelgreener Good read. Thanks!
 
3:50 PM
@Rubiksmoose Being in a hurry to close a question sometimes sends a message that is received as hostile, by the asker. I've seen that response on multiple SE's to question closure.
Particular to new users, though, as once someone has been around SE for a while they "get" how it's supposed to work.
 
@KorvinStarmast I completely get that, and honestly that would be my natural inclination. I always try to project a friendly tone.
But I am trying to internalize the discussions on meta which basically say we can let friendliness affect the utility of the site. If a user isn't willing to work with us on questions then they may not be a good fit for the site in general. So, better to close early and preserve the quality of questions and answers then to allow them then to potentially courting users who aren't a good fit for the SE method in general. (paraphrasing what I've read as I understand it)
 
Perhaps the mods could add something to the tour, along the lines of "Certain questions are better suited to discussion forums and not SE"
 
Yeah, honestly the effort and confusion and frustration and strife experienced by most people involved after a question is remodelled (and wasn't closed) is worse than just closing it and talking the person through the process. Couple all of that with the author experiencing an acute sense they did something wrong when a bunch of answers get deleted or shaken up or etc, which is lesser if it was just closed early.
There's often some shock in someone's question getting closed for the first time but it's less awful then what follows if it wasn't closed.
 
Rubik TIME is what is at issue here. We have a few metas about helpful dogpiling and rushing to make a decision, when the main site is NOT a chat room.
Someone posts a question, and then can't get back to SE for a few hours. There is no need for panic. Give them time to respond to questions.
@doppelgreener Yeah, and in most cases, they didn't do any thing wrong.
It's just a matter of getting the question scoped well enough to attract the good answers.
 
@KorvinStarmast What would you say is a reasonable time window? 6 hours? 12 hours? 24?
 
4:02 PM
Optimize for pearls, not sand.
 
@KorvinStarmast Doing something wrong is not the main reason question get put on hold, it is questions that need work though right?
 
@Mike Personally, I'd give it half a day. People Have Lives. I am not sure how Mxy/Seven/Doppel/Nits feel about that.
@Rubiksmoose I rarely am the one to start a close chain, unless I know a question is a dupe or a fresh question is just awful. (those are very rare). I'd rather engage first. Most people do respond with reasonable alacrity.
I used to spend a lot of time editing new questions into better prose and format, to help them stay close to OK, but I don't do that as often now.
 
Doesn't help that new users can't respond to comments because you can't comment under a certain account point threshold
 
@SPavel You can comment on your own question I think
 
@SPavel I think you can respond to comments under your own question or answer ... vague memory
 
4:05 PM
For this particular question though, as @Rubiksmoose pointed out, it's unlikely to get a comprehensive and objective answer. First, it's based on a custom system, so it's hard to get a sense of what is or isn't balanced - is this a game where players have lots of resources and freedom of choice, or are they limited?
 
@mike There is that ...
 
Second, even if a community user gets an accurate sense of what is considered "balanced" in this system, there answer will inevitably be opinion-based, because different DMs have different preferences for challenge difficulty.
For example, I like to cater to my player's weaknesses, and I design each encounter to have some aspect that challenges at least one of them; this forces that player to adopt new strategies, while the others watch their back, which reinforces teamwork.
 
@MikeQ Per your there answer will inevitably be opinion-based, because different DMs have different preferences for challenge difficulty
 
@MikeQ What happens when the PCs have no weakn- no sorry I can't finish that sentence, I've never had a PC that wasn't a glass cannon
 
Not quite. When asking for an experience based answer, you can avoid the "opinion based" accusation with Back It Up!
 
4:09 PM
@KorvinStarmast close first, if they need a few hours they can take them while the question's closed
 
But another DM might see my strategy as unfair, and prefer to design encounters to be challenging regardless of build. Or design encounters such that certain players can shine and show off the potential of their characters.
 
The better question is, what happens when the PCs are unwilling to change their strategy, die, and complain
 
@MikeQ we don't even know what combat looks like in this system. Is it D&D-like (probably) FATE-like? It makes a difference
 
"You made the encounter too hard!"
"That was a CR1 goblin that hit for minimum damage, it's your fault for spending all your money on swords and putting 5 in CON"
 
@SPavel Then they get to learn something
 
4:10 PM
@doppelgreener Is that your view, or all four? (Guessing the latter)
 
Closing isn't a punishment - it's a pause and a reprieve, and closing early is better for everyone involved, asker included.
@KorvinStarmast mine
 
@GreySage You'd think so but no
Their next guy will be even glassier and cannonier
 
@doppelgreener From my experience here, I am pretty sure Seven feels that way also, and would bet money in Vegas that Mxy feels that way.
 
@SPavel diamond ion-cannon?
 
@GreySage special beam cannon
 
4:11 PM
But it's also this site's general practice. We don't cede quality requirements to potential for hurt feelings.
 
@SPavel Usually I like to select one player, and I cycle across different encounters. So the remaining players can show off their strengths and protect the character who is at a disadvantage.
 
@KorvinStarmast i agree
 
@Rubiksmoose That's a good point. We don't know what combat looks like, but I am pretty sure I've been in "mirror matchups" in multiple games. I know we did it in Travveller, D&D (multiple editions) and Runequest.
 
@SPavel Otherwise, I find that certain players become consistently very good or very weak. When this happens across all encounters, the party starts to feel unbalanced, and there is a sense that certain characters are dominantly better than others. Also, the game will start to get repetitive when the players can reuse the same exact strategy in every challenge.
 
@MikeQ Yes that happens a lot
 
4:16 PM
@doppelgreener SE needs to release a public service announcement: "Closed Questions Are Not Bad Questions".
 
The problem with targeting the strong guys is that the weak guys can't contribute to fighting off the enemy
There are systems where that works better but in level based ones the rising tide lifts all boats, and a stronger monster is a stronger monster
 
@SPavel Right. So that's why I like to design challenges that change it up. Create enemies that the strong guy is weak against, and the weak guy is strong against. Nudge the players out of their comfort zones.
 
@Yuuki That is a good idea. If we make it something that we can link to users that would explain some of the reasons why questions get closed and that this is not punishment but that we want to work with them to make their question better and to get them the most helpful answer to that question.
 
@MikeQ That's what I am saying though - that's not always an applicable strategy
There are characters that are bad at everything, or at least worse at everything than someone else
In some systems, this is impossible, in others it's considered desirable
 
@SPavel Could you provide an example scenario?
 
4:19 PM
@MikeQ The entire game of D&D 3.5 :P
More specifically, something like a Monk in a party with a Rogue and a Barbarian, let's say
There is no challenge that you can give the Monk that the Rogue and Barbarian can't resolve more easily
 
@SPavel The rogue stops being the DPS diva when you throw enemies that are immune to flanking or sneak attack.
 
@MikeQ The problem is not nerfing the rogue
The problem is making the monk feel like he showed up to play a game, not chat with his friends while his character's corpse slowly rots at the bottom of a pit
 
Hmm, so the problem is how to design something in 3.5 where a rogue and barbarian would be at a relative disadvantage compared to the monk?
 
@MikeQ In this particular case, yes
 
This isn't guaranteed to work, but perhaps something that requires a lot of Will saves?
 
4:24 PM
@KorvinStarmast Correct -- a user can always comment on their own post, and if it's a question, they can always comment on the answers, no matter their rep.
 
@MikeQ Willl saves are problematic, both defensively (Monks can't actually afford to pump WIS, so their Will is average, barbarian gets Will bonuses from rage, rogue should grab slippery mind) and offensively (the effects locked behind Will saves are either encounter-ending, or not very good)
I can see using Will saves as a way to make the Monk's flimsy advantages matter, but it doesn't make him stronger, it just makes him relevant
If your goal is to make the monk shine it's not enough, and it's certainly not enough if you want to do so repeatedly, otherwise the other players will get tired of it
The solution is, of course, not to allow weak characters
But that's a whole other kettle of fish
 
Does this question need to be a single edition, or does it actually make sense to ask about every edition?
(I don't know how much the portable hole has changed over time.)
 
@doppelgreener I don't think any edition mentions the directionality of gravity
 
In the Dungeons & Dragons fantasy role-playing game, a portable hole is a magic item. It generally resembles a circular cloth which is placed on a surface to create a hole. If placed on a wall, for example, the user could access a 10 foot cube of space in another dimension for anything from storing items and objects to living in. However, if closed with a living creature inside without some form of air supply, they are likely to suffocate. In another instance, if the hole was placed on the ground, the user might be able to insert objects into it or allow others to fall in, as if he or she had dug...
It looks like 1E may have had the PH actually open a hole through something instead of into another dimension.
 
@SPavel I suppose that, conversely, you could design challenges differently such that different characters can shine?
 
4:38 PM
@MikeQ You can only do that if characters have unique strengths
Not all characters do, which is my entire point
 
But that article is not at all cited so take it as you will.
 
OK, I don't get the joke. I see a Jeff tag but it's a 404. Is that a tag for mr atwood?
 
@SPavel That's a good point. So far I haven't run into that problem. Usually I pick a small group (3-5 people) who naturally diversify their roles, in order to cover all bases. Perhaps if a PC was dominantly worse than the others, I'd consider giving them some handicap like a magic item.
 
@KorvinStarmast It is an in-joke from back here:
Dec 1 '16 at 10:35, by doppelgreener
something is weird with my site shortcuts in my browser:
 
@SPavel Also, if a character is really bad, and the player is frustrated, then I would suggest they retire that character and swap in a new one that they might enjoy better. It's a crude solution, but at least I'm not forcing someone to play a role that makes them miserable.
 
4:53 PM
@Rubiksmoose I'm cool with that.
 
5:16 PM
@MikeQ The problem is compounded when the player is bad at the game
 
5:31 PM
@SPavel If someone is "bad" at any game, then they either learn to become better, or they don't learn and instead quit. Or, they don't improve, and just settle because they enjoy it for other reasons? That's just how people are, and applies to most if not all games.
 
@MikeQ True, except for golf, in my experience. I think the drinking part of that might contribute ... :)
 
@MikeQ In my experience that's not "just how people are" - most people have an unrealistic assessment of their own competence and will blame anyone but themselves
 
@Rubiksmoose Looks like the efforts to engage and assist have borne fruit.
 
@SPavel In that case, at least in a tabletop setting, that's kind of outside of the DM's control. At best, they could sit down one-on-one with the player to check if the player is feeling frustrated. Or other players could give suggestions. If a person is truly incapable of learning, then there's very little that the others can do to help.
 
5:52 PM
Random note of the day: My rep is currently 4004. I feel like that's when you reaaally can't find something on the internet.
 
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