V'dibarta Bam - 2012-04-15

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2:37 AM

@Jin hello

2 hours later…

4:53 AM

@HodofHod re: meta.judaism.stackexchange.com/q/557/759 You mean you dismissed a flag you yourself flagged on your own post?

@DoubleAA Your flag, actually ;)

@HodofHod I flagged you? You must have been pretty inappropriate!! :D

@HodofHod If so I'm going to retag that post bug because I think that shouldn't be allowed.

Or maybe feature-request.

@DoubleAA I was about to suggest the latter

it seems that this is the intended behaviour

@HodofHod Very well.

for some reason I just used the British spelling of "behaviour".

and I don't know why

@DoubleAA as regards your flag, for some reason I can't find it in my history, but I suspect that's because it was a flag on a comment of mine. If I recall correctly, you thought something was no longer relevant, and I thought it still was. Also, I thought it would be a great opportunity to test this out! :D

5:03 AM

@HodofHod I don't see it in my history either.

4

Q: Handling Flags Against Yourself

When someone flags a post, can the author of that post handle the flag himself? (I'm hoping the answer is no!) Based on some research, it seems mods can in fact dismiss flags against their own posts. As such, I have retagged this feature-request so that this can be changed. I believe that mod...

feature-request moderation flagging

10 hours later…

2:52 PM

@IsaacMoses hi! i was going to make you some design related questions

@IsaacMoses let me know whenever you're free

3:03 PM

0

Q: Undo vote to close

Is there a way to undo a vote to close a question because you thought it was a dupe and then realized it wasn't?

discussion vote-to-close

2 hours later…

5:25 PM

@Jin Hey. Sorry; my availability is a bit intermittent now. I've been with family for Passover, and I'm about to go on a business trip. I expect to be on and off later this afternoon and this evening.

@IsaacMoses sure np! just a quick question though, is Tree of Life an OK image to use for the site?

I'm thinking about incorporating it in the logo, or using it as a subtle pattern for the site's background. I don't have anything finalized yet.

Could be, though depending on how it's done, it could look like a memorial plaque on a decades-old synagogue. Could you show me an example or two of images you're using as inspiration?

@IsaacMoses judaism.com/…

but it'd be a lot more abstract and less detailed the way I'd use it.

@jin One nice idea associated with the Tree of Life is its association with Torah, the instructions for life, which are living. A tree morphing into a Torah scroll could be cool.

@Jin A generic tree would be nice, but may not be immediately recognized as a Jewish symbol. OTOH, immediate recognition as such isn't always necessary, I guess. Judaism does like trees, generally.

@Jin gabrieljrutledge.tumblr.com/post/12001464955/…

judaism.com/display.asp?nt=BmKp&etn=IDIBJ

@IsaacMoses oh btw, i have good news.

when the site launches, it will be Mi Yodeya

6

5:33 PM

@Jin NICE!

WOOHOO!

THAT ROCKS!

speaking of which, what is the right punctuation syntax? "Mi Yodeya" "Mi.Yodeya"

can i all cap "Mi Yodeya?"

i'm just brainstorming the logo idea right now. for the logo it needs to be something clean and simple, not a super detailed illustration.

i've been looking at so many Judaism related artwork and logos recently, I'd like to avoid using the Star of David too explicitly, since EVERYONE else is using it for their branding.

BUT, I'd like to include it, in a clever way..

The dot was just a webish affectation on my part. Keep it if you want to stay true to the old site. The old canonical URL was mi.yodeya.com, but I also own miyodeya.com, FWIW. Capitalization doesn't really matter. There isn't capitalization in Hebrew.

I'll be happy to transfer those URLs to SE

@Jin You could do well with the tree concept to start with. I encourage you to show some sketches to Jewish Life and Learning Meta

so in my mind, I'm thinking about the main stem of etz chaim to be the upper part of a question mark, and the dot in the "?" is the "O" of Mi Yodeya.

and the branches of the Tree would form the shape of a vague Star of David..

sorry I know this is all conceptual, I haven't made anything concrete yet. I just want to make sure my concept is sound before I spend too much time on anything

@Jin I agree with that impulse wholeheartedly

@Jin I could definitely see that working

I do like the idea of incorporating a "?" in the logo though, since it fits the theme of the site.

the tree, and the subtle outline of Star of David would give it that traditional Judaism feel.

5:38 PM

@Jin That's cool. Keep in mind that there are plenty of other people around who could offer good opinions. It's been a bit slow lately due to Passover, but it should pick up soon.

@Jin Indeed.

@Jin If you can hint at shapes of Hebrew letters, that could be cool.

sure. the reason I'm asking you is that I was consulting with a Jewish friend of mine. He lives in Israel.

@Jin Well, that's helpful!

when I asked him about using the Tree of Liife, his response was:

"I just had to look up Etz Chaim. It's part of Kabbalah. Not canon Judaism, so not sure how much it would resonate."

that's why I was unsure.. but when I google for Jewish arts, I see the tree showing up, a lot..

@Jin I don't know much about Kabbalah, but the phrase "etz chaim" - "Tree of life" is in the Bible and is in the standard prayer service every week. In that context, it's a metaphor for the Torah

Etz Hayyim, also transliterated as Etz Chaim (Hebrew ayyim: עץ חיים, "Tree of Life") is a common term used in Judaism. The expression, originates in Genesis 2:9. It is also found in the Book of Proverbs, where it is figuratively applied to "the fruit of the righteous" (11:30), "desire" (13:12), and "a wholesome tongue" (15:4). Bible Usage in Hebrew Etz Chaim is a common name for yeshivas and synagogues as well as for works of Rabbinic literature. The term Etz Chaim, (plural: עצי חיים Atzei Chaim), is also used to describe each of the wooden poles to which the parchment of a Sefer To...

@IsaacMoses great. we're working on a design based on the brainstorming session. I hope to show the community the design in couple of weeks, or sooner.

5:43 PM

OK, gotta feed my kids. Thanks VERY MUCH for the good news and all your great work.

bye

@IsaacMoses take care.

6:23 PM

@Jin "Etz Chaim" is also the name of one of the more famous books on kabbalah, so that might be what your friend found.

@HodofHod most likely.

maybe i should've said "Tree of Life" instead?

@HodofHod while you're here! how about using hamesh hand for some icons? would that be appropriate?

@Jin perhaps, but that is after all the literal translation of "etz chaim", so not sure if it would matter. As @IsaacMoses said, the tree of life is very common in Judaism.

@Jin @HodofHod

user image

@ShmuelBrin Whew! too much kabbalah for me

@HodofHod now you see the "yud beis gevulei alachson"

6:27 PM

i saw those sephirots during my research, I wasn't sure if that's appropriate for me to use. but I'm sure I'll get community feedback once we post the initial design concept.

but I'd like to get feedback in the chatroom here early, just so we don't end up using something that's completely off the mark.

@Jin Ah, so you make a rought draft and then invite comment? Is that how it works?

@Jin ok

@HodofHod though IIRC, we normally count Daas and don't count keser (see Sefer Maamarim Tof Reish Ayin) so the tree would come out differently.

though this is a bit nit-picky for our purposes.

is there a definitive shape for the Tree of Life? e.g. # of branches etc

@ShmuelBrin True. Except in certain maamarim ( I think one of the "zimna chada's" from Lag Baomer used keser instead of ddas

@Jin No

it's a metaphor for the Torah, and the term comes from the Bible. Artists have drawn it as they imagine it for centuries, but there was never a physical tree to base it on, so it varies.

From researching for Jewish arts, both traditional and modern, there's a strong earth tone color scheme to most of the Jewish arts i've seen. orange, gold, yellow, brown etc

6:31 PM

@HodofHod Tof Reish Ayin discusses that Daas is chitzonius of keser. Therefore if one counts the chitzonios of sefiros, one counts daas but if one counts the pnimius, one counts keser.

@HodofHod moreover, it's a subject of argument among mekubalim.

@Jin True, but not for any particular reason that I know of. Just happens, I guess

also, is this happening?

Mar 30 at 16:15, by Jin

^ that post has been helpful. but we'll make another official thread for gathering design ideas too.

@HodofHod It may. But the first round had a lot of good ideas already that I can work with.

@Jin as regard the hamesh hand (or "hamsa"), it is definitely a Jewish symbol, see judaism.stackexchange.com/questions/7890/is-hamsa-allowed, but it is more common to Jews from middle eastern countries (sephardim).

@HodofHod right. i was reading en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamsa last weekend.

Also, there's a bit of controversy about it, since some think that it's inappropriate, (as you can see by the question and answers there). I think most are ok with it. I think you should probably ask it on meta when you do your post there

6:37 PM

The research has been very educational to me :)

Also, my friend from Israel suggested it'd be cool if I can incorporate

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gematria

on the site. I'm not sure how feasible it'd be.

@Jin That'd be pretty cool, but I wonder how it could be done

it's basically replacing English numerics to Gematria? I'm not sure if it's possible..

also I noticed Gematria doesn't have 0?

@Jin No, in hebrew the letters always have number values. And the way numbers where written in traditional hebrew was either spelled out ("one hundred sixty-two"), or with the hebrew letters (קס"ו)

@Jin Correct, and in hebrew letters there is no way to say zero.

@HodofHod same with Chinese too.

which doesn't matter so much, since hebrew's counting system does not rely on place value

@Jin Cool!

learned something new!

6:45 PM

Although in modern days, we have adopted 0-9

@Jin Same in Israel

Hebrew numerals

The system of Hebrew numerals is a quasi-decimal alphabetic numeral system using the letters of the Hebrew alphabet. In this system, there is no notation for zero, and the numeric values for individual letters are added together. Each unit (1, 2, ..., 9) is assigned a separate letter, each tens (10, 20, ..., 90) a separate letter, and the first four hundreds (100, 200, 300, 400) a separate letter. The later hundreds (500, 600, 700, 800 and 900) are represented by the sum of two or three letters representing the first four hundreds. To represent numbers from 1,000 to 999,999, the same let...

一二三四五六七八九十

1 - 10 in chinese

what's ironic, is that the character for "0" is much much more complex

零

@Jin Up until 3 I get it, but then it loses me!

That's a face!

I wish I still lived in DC area, I had several Jewish friends there.

But it's ok, I have you guys here :)

We'll be your friends! :D

6:51 PM

I'm very careful about the design for Judaism.se/Mi Yodeya. I want to to be truly authentic. I don't want to use too many cliched or inaccurate elements.

because I've seen enough "Asian" designs done by outsiders that make me cringe.

So, I definitely won't launch the design until it has community's approval.

@Jin Thank you, I (and I'm sure everyone else) really appreciate it! You're right, of course, there are so many designs that end up over-cliched for the group that it targets. I've recognized quite a few myself, and probably have seen tons more without realizing it!

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Apr '1215

V'dibarta Bam

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