The Nineteenth Byte - 2018-01-12 (page 1 of 3)

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12:15 AM

@DJMcMayhem ayy check it

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I found this interesting alphabet pattern while golfing for this challenge, and in my opinion this is different enough from the other alphabet challenges to post as a KG. I don't really want comments from alphabet challenge haters, more just unbiased opinions on whether this is a dupe and if I sh...

12:44 AM

@tfbninja Congratulations, you ninja'd New Sandboxed Posts. Good job.

1:05 AM

Contact

For playing the game Contact, where one person tries to "defend"...

Anyone want to play contact?

1:27 AM

I assume that ... and I won't make a pun because the penguin is watching

The Penguin is always watching over you

Enter PhiNotPi

With ATaco in hand

> eats a taco

> Stops, before the penguin waddles and kicks

Anonymous

1:32 AM

Rockwell - Somebody's Watching Me

;-; lol

*Somepenguin

Mego has added an event to this room's schedule.

o0

Anonymous

PPCG Podcast happening in 25 minutes (2 AM UTC)! Featuring myself, @Doorknob, @DJMcMayhem, and Nick Clifford! discord.gg/H2hR2X

5

1:35 AM

what is that :D

@Pavel

hi

@Pavel lol true

Nick Clifford is a dev or a random user?

the first one was a mistake

1:37 AM

Mego has removed an event from this room's schedule.

Mego has added an event to this room's schedule.

Anonymous

Got the right date this time

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino He's on PPCG, but hasn't been in here recently enough to ping

@Mego hold on the podcast is actually happening?

Anonymous

Yep!

Anonymous

I know, it's exciting

1:40 AM

Oh okay

Why didn't I hear about this sooner?

wait so how does this thingy work

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi We've been talking about it for the past two-ish weeks in here and in the podcast chat room

@HyperNeutrino Why can't he be both

o true :P

Anonymous

1:42 AM

@HyperNeutrino Our four lovely speakers will be in a voice chat channel in Discord. We'll be talking and doing podcasty things. We have 4 main topics to discuss (Spectre/Meltdown, Net Neutrality, Programming Language Trends and Development, and PPCG v2). We'll also almost certainly meander into other topics. Listeners can join the voice channel, but can't talk. They can respond in text chat, and we'll be keeping an eye on text chat to enable a live conversation with the viewers.

Ooh that sounds really cool :D

Anonymous

We're also recording our individual audio, which I will mix and master into a final cut that can be listened to at any point after I publish it

glad I can just use text and not have to voice because otherwise i'd deafen you all with background noise lmao

Anonymous

So if people are interested but can't make it to the live cast, it will be available for listening

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Yeah that's a big reason why we chose to set it up the way we did - too many people in VC would make it hard to hold a conversation

1:44 AM

yeah true

oh my god

Anonymous

There may be some issues with people's voices in VC (DJ, for example, has a common problem where his audio will drop out for a few words), which is why we're recording the audio

i have like 3 discord accounts because i keep forgetting which email i use

I remember volunteering for the podcast a while back (like, 2016 a while back)

well i finally figured out which email it was

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi Yeah, unfortunately that iteration didn't pan out. Which is why I decided to try it again.

1:46 AM

@Mego Wait really? :/

I didn't know that

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem Lol we complain about it all the time

@Mego just so you know, I'm still interested in doing some podcast stuff, so if there's ever gonna be a podcast on a topic you think I could help out with (IDK what that would be), I can be a speaker for something.

Anonymous

@PhiNotPi One of the topics I thought of for the next podcast could be Tetris, which I would love to have you on for

Can someone please explain the usage of the eggplant ?

Anonymous

@Zacharý Alex is a goof

1:52 AM

Liao, right?

ah yes hello

I'm not really in TNB that much but I'll still respond if you ping me @Mego lol

@Zacharý who me?

the SE app gives chat notifications too

@NickClifford if a user is inactive for too long the option to ping them goes away lol

oh lol

1:55 AM

i was asking for clarification of which "Alex".

Anonymous

@Zacharý No, Alex A. Our beloved bird mod.

Whether it's you or "bird alex"

(shows how much I use chat.SE)

Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ

I live!

Yes, the one that can fly (away from here)

@Mego So thus you are not our beloved bird mod

2:32 AM

banned

@Zacharý Right, because Mego is not a mod

yes :P

He is not our beloved bird mod, he is a mod that can still kick me. So, he's the ... other bird mod

Never mind, A.A. is the painting mod, and Meego is the bird mod

3:21 AM

@aditsu would you mind taking a look at this when you have the chance? Thanks in advance

Anonymous

3:41 AM

@Zacharý Not a mod, just a room owner

podcast went well!

Anonymous

I'm pleasantly surprised about how few issues we had

yeah I'm glad DJ didn't actually stop recording

lol

@NickClifford Well what happened is that I wanted to blow my nose, but I didn't want everyone to hear it, so I unplugged my mic. I didn't realize that would stop audacity lol

I should have just muted it

lol

3:47 AM

Oh Now I see who Nick was, I was unsure the whole time

o/

Anonymous

4:01 AM

@DJMcMayhem You need a mute button on your mic :P

Anonymous

I made good use of mine as I downed a large glass of water

So you can mute without alerting people to the fact that you muted.

@NickClifford haha yeah that really scared me for a bit

+50 for brainflak answer

(shortest obviously)

I have been summoned

4:09 AM

Dibs

@DJMcMayhem How's this

4:26 AM

@Mego Recording available?

Anonymous

@Pavel I'm still downloading audio from the other participants lol

Aww

Anonymous

It shouldn't take me too long to edit this all together

Anonymous

Maybe like 6-8 weeks

2

Anonymous

4:41 AM

First things first: repair DJ's audio

What was wrong with it?

It cut out for a couple seconds in the middle

Which isn't a huge deal, except that it's split into two tracks now

Anonymous

4:59 AM

Oh boy, Audacity keeps freezing on me

Anonymous

This is going to be really fun

I hate Audacity >_<

There's no real alternative and the UI is annoyingly hard to use.

Anonymous

DJ audio fixed! \o/

Yay!

5:45 AM

user image

2

2 hours later…

7:58 AM

@Mego How long did the podcast last?

Anonymous

@Fatalize About an hour and a half

jeez that's long

@Mego Where will you upload it? Youtube?

Anonymous

@Fatalize Not sure yet

Anonymous

Maybe youtube, definitely standalone downloads in various formats (MP3, WMA, OGG)

Anonymous

90 minutes ended up being the perfect amount of time for our discussions

8:10 AM

@Fatalize We discussed ~~broccolilog~~ brachylog a little bit

"broccolilog" ಠ_ಠ

I don't see in which of the 4 subjects Brachylog (or any esolang for that matter) would fit the discussion

Anonymous

Programming language trends and development

Anonymous

We were talking about how languages started using single-byte encoding schemes to get even shorter

Eh, I thought that would be more about practical languages

Anonymous

And Brachylog came up because it was the first language we could find that was made by a PPCG user that used a SBCS instead of ASCII or Unicode

8:14 AM

I mean Jelly did it first

even though Jelly is younger than Brachylog

(What about the new code page for Actually btw? :p)

Anonymous

Seriously was a contender, but Brachylog was earlier by a few months

Anonymous

Jelly was the first to use a custom codepage so that the symbols made sense and weren't a huge pain to type

Anonymous

But Brachylog was the first (as far as we could tell) that used an existing encoding

Yeah but Brachylog used ASCII for a long period at first

Anonymous

Huh

8:17 AM

January 21st, 2017

Anonymous

Then was Seriously the first?

before that it used ASCII

Well yeah I think so

Now you gotta edit the podcast to replace "Brachylog" with "Seriously" :P

In any case, Brachylog's code page was inspired by Jelly's code page, so it's definitely not first

Anonymous

November 8th, 2015 for Seriously

so more than a 1 year difference

Anonymous

gs2 came first, but it wasn't made by a PPCG user (the creator was an anagolf user)

8:20 AM

What about ESMin?

Or does that use Unicode?

Anonymous

ESMin uses UTF-16 as it's JS

Anonymous

And it has way more than 256 characters :P

Are there new/in development esolangs currently?

The last one I can think of is Husk

Anonymous

Well earlier today Christopher came up with an idea for a Brain-Flak derivative designed to be even more painful to use

Anonymous

Actually is still somewhat in development, but I'm still focusing my effort on the rewrite/refactor so that continued development will suck less

8:25 AM

Refactoring is the hard part

The last few changes I wanted to make to Brachylog's syntax require big changes to the tokenizer and the parser. I've lost the will to work on the language after attempting to implement the changes

Anonymous

My problem is, it's not the core language that I want to change. It's the terrible implementation.

I mean at least you have unit tests… :P

Anonymous

87% coverage woo

I gave up on implementing them after the 30th built-in

8:42 AM

@Fatalize Wheatwizard and 0' are making "jelly, 3 bytes"

…is that really the name

Yeah, I think they are planning on rotating through a list of awful names

Add "language names" to the list of neurons dedicated to Brain-Flak

9:07 AM

@LeakyNun Jelly, 8 bytes Æp+³=µ#Ḣ

Gives the maximum of the pair of primes

Oh ;-; Ninja'd-nearly by Erik, at least it's a bit different

Husk, 8 bytes !İp€Ẋ-İp... Can probably be made a lot shorter

10:04 AM

Can mods close question immediately (without 5 votes)?

@user202729 I'm sure they can, since even gold badge non-mod users can.

@user202729 Of course.

@Adám Only for duplicates, though.

Actually an interesting question. Are all mod privileges publicly known?

Because we only have few moderators (Dennis, Doorknob, MartinEnder and AlexA. (?)), I was not sure.

@Adám ... just ask them ...

I guess yes...

1 hour later…

11:33 AM

so i tried codegolfing in Rust, and wow

somehow it's more verbose than Java

like sleep sort in Java - 106 bytes, in Rust - 150 bytes

and that of course considering checked exception nonsense for Thread.sleep

11:50 AM

@Mr.Xcoder Typo "Triagularity" on github page.

@user202729 Thank you! Fixed.

1 hour later…

1:19 PM

@Mods The comments under the /// answers became too long. Should someone delete them? (and probably lock the answer)

Also, someone complains about the answer hardcodes the output...

[history question] Why do we have the "hardcoding the output" loophole and "serious contender" rule at the first place?

kolmogorov-complexity answers are exempted from that standard loophole (hardcoding).

... I don't understand. We can't even define what is hardcode the output.

(I remember MartinEnder (or someone else) have a question on meta about what is hardcode)

133

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Hard-coding the output Unless the question is an obvious exception (the primary exception being those tagged kolmogorov-complexity), your program is expected to do work, not just print a pre-calculated result. If the question doesn't require input and so a solution which just prints the answer w...

... and the comment has got 3 more upvotes by the way.

> If the question doesn't require input and so a solution which just prints the answer would seem to meet the spec, downvote the question rather than post a protest answer consisting of the literal output.

Let's see...

In my opinion, an answer which hardcodes the output is an answer that only works for a specific range of inputs, due to the limitations of the algorithm used, rather than the limitations of the language in which the algorithm is implemented.

1:26 PM

Oh ok.

Because this loophole may be wrongly understood, read this. In other word, algorithms must theorically work for all input, although in practice it may not work. — user202729 8 secs ago

^ correct? (the latter sentence)

So...

In my opinion, that answer doesn’t violate any standard loophole, but it is not a serious contender so it should be removed.

opinion*

isn't that loophole a duplicate of this?

I don't entirely agree with your comment, because in this particular case, I feel like it is not appropriate (the challenge explicitly allows – and that's actually the whole point thereof – that the output can be anything, while you should try to optimise the score)

@user202729 Definitely not.

@Mr.Xcoder ... which comment?

This one

Oh wait.

1:31 PM

deleted

@Mr.Xcoder Isn't that what you meant?

Ok, good. I'm trying to wrap my head around the context

@user202729 I thought you commented on the Moby Dick answer... Wait

16

A: Loopholes that are forbidden by default

Empty / Bare Output Not sure on the best title but hopefully the examples show what I mean. Mainly targeting code-challenges where the score is determined by the output. This results in very boring, but valid, answers which tend to get upvoted especially on pop-cons with no other answers. An ...

OK, that is a clear loophole violation. Never saw that one before.

In my opinion, this answer clearly violates this loophole. — Mr. Xcoder 32 secs ago

Commented.

4 mins ago, by user202729

@Mr.Xcoder Isn't that what you meant?

^ Can you reply to that comment too?

That's what I meant, but I don't think it is necessary to mention it in a comment. You can do whatever you want, though.

1:37 PM

I think it's necessary because I don't think so on the first time I read the answer. Is it that obvious?

Mhm, perhaps my opinion is not necessarily the definition of hard-coding.

Is (non competing) still used on this site for any purposes?

A better variant might be: An answer hardcodes the output if it is possible to identify a portion of the program that encodes pre-calculated results, instead of computing them.

Anyways, cya gtg o/

@user202729 No, because its only real purpose was for postdating languages which has now been added to the Standard Loopholes (if abused) and the status has been officially removed (well, there was a meta post by Martin and it was like +50/-10 or something like that, I don't remember)

some people mistakenly use it for incomplete or partial solutions but those should just be deleted

i lagged out TIO (client-side) somehow lol

Just output a lot of bytes. Easy.

1:49 PM

and i just lost a ton of code yay

Or use RAM-consuming browsers and open a lot of tabs, and disable pagefile.

Don't use TIO for serious code.

well no i can usually output over the byte limit and still not freeze

it's not serious code so i don't really care :P

2:04 PM

@Fatalize Ohm is still kind of in development

I think I successfully finished my KoTH controller :D

nvm i forgot a TODO part lol

2:37 PM

CMC: Given a positive integer N, output the sum of all prime factors of all numbers from 2 up to and including N (for each number between 2 and N, don't count prime factors multiple times). fastest-code/fastest-algorithm (it's a CMC, I'm not going to bother judging it properly) (problem given to me by a friend)

Sorry, misread.

100k -> 795296868
200k -> 2980866992
250k -> 4566515439

??

Sum of all prime factors of all numbers?

yes

so like for input 7

answer is 24

2 -> [2]
3 -> [3]
4 -> [2]
5 -> [5]
6 -> [2, 3]
7 -> [7]
2 + 3 + 2 + 5 + (2 + 3) + 7 = 24

Question to native English speakers: is “sine qua non” a well-known expression?

2:41 PM

I've never heard of it; I'd think it's foreign if I saw it. I don't know if it's well-known to most people though.

Jelly, 7 bytes

(link is to TIO frontpage)

oh I see what you are doing

nvm tooltip text ok

yeah that's what i'd do as well

but also, fastest-code. but gj regardless

... fastest code so C++ ...

I can get 10 million in about 4.7 seconds (python)

So I'll use Python to be fair.

2:44 PM

@user202729 yeah pretty much :P

okay

I can use c++ as well if you prefer c++

I don't prefer C++, but I know it better

because competitive programming.

ok

oh wow i'm so dumb

@Fatalize I've never heard of it either

Anyone up for JHT after this CMC?

i had a hugely inefficient part of my program that could be easily optimized

2:45 PM

@Mego yikes... i'm only 12 hours late

10mil now ~2.9 seconds

Hmm alright thanks

@HyperNeutrino ...?

nvm I just missed a part in my program that was obviously optimizable

For 100k I got 795396868

2:51 PM

yep looks right

I think Rabin-Miller should be the best attempt here

interestingly enough, my python solution is faster than my c++ one

:o

Sorry, my mistake

Do you measure the time on TiO or independently @HyperNeutrino?

2:55 PM

1e6 -> 64986402084 (1.4s)

wait nvm no it isn't

Independently

@Mr.Xcoder TIO but I use a built-in time library and check the elapsed time instead of using the debug info

Ok

1e6 -> 64986402084 (0.2s)

2:56 PM

switch to C++

@Mr.Xcoder ... primality test?

Nvm I changed my mind

@user202729 Yes

1e6 -> 64986402084 (~50ms) (C++)

my friend got 100k in 1.9s

(python)

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Jan '1812

The Nineteenth Byte

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