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12:02 AM
@Monad You could use it but it will sound weird. Like you're trying too hard to use fancy words that few have heard of before and fewer used. 'purple prose'. just say 'from then on'
12:20 AM
If a teacher gives a minimum page count for a paper does that include the abstract and title page?
might be better to ask for forgiveness and not permission.
1 hour later…
1:47 AM
Q: Is "helter skelter" a word or two words or two non-words? What do we call it?

Mr HenryThe phrase "helter skelter" is strange because you don't see the word "helter" or "skelter" used anywhere, and when I searched Merriam-Webster dictionary for either word it links me to the definition of "helter skelter." https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/helter-skelter Since helter and...

2:46 AM
Word of the day: sargasm n The emotional and physical release that comes with having made a particularly fine display of mordant wit.
10 hours later…
12:44 PM
> He says he will ...
He said he would ...
He'd said he would (have?) ...
1 hour later…
2:09 PM
Q: Equivalent to cohort but for objects or things?

SalainAmong a large set of objects, I have subsets where the individuals share traits which distinguish them from the individuals in other subsets. Notably, these traits can be viewed as contributions toward a goal. For example, if the individuals were people, then three subsets might be 1) lumberjac...

3:06 PM
@Robusto I like it.
3:17 PM
Is it Friday already? It feels like we just had one a week ago.
3:36 PM
@Mitch Empiricist. :P
4:08 PM
@Mitch no. it's still Wednesday
@MattE.Эллен Whew. I was worried there for a sec. Now I have the whole rest of the week to get things done properly without a rush. I may even take off most of the day.
@Mitch I mean Wednesday next week
@MattE.Эллен head explodes
Interesting fact: you can clean out brains that have gotten squished in between keys on your keyboard by using the sharper shards of skull laying about.
Oh! Thanks. I've been wondering how to do that
Also, you should try to refrain from eating the globs. 1) it comes with all that gunk that was already there (dried hand sweat, crumbs). 2) really high in cholesterol
Really no concern about CJK/mad cow disease because 1) you have no brains for it to infect 2) you're mostly dead.
4:25 PM
4:39 PM
4 hours ago, by Færd
> He says he will ...
He said he would ...
He'd said he would (have?) ...
So how does two-fold backshifting work?
@Færd He had said he would do it. So, he'd said he'd do it.
@terdon Not he'd said he'd have done it?
@Færd No, because. Uhm. Because?
Haha. OK.
"He had said he would do it" means that in the past he said something like "I will do it". "He had said he would have done it" means that in the past he said something like "I would have done it".
4:44 PM
I would've liked to have heard a reason of a sort, though.
What MetaEd said.
Thanks to both of you!
So in the first case, the person made a promise. But in the second case, the person made an excuse.
But in I would have liked to have had an ice cream doesn't work like that.
So I'm not sure your theory can be generalized.
@Færd Two-fold backshifting? You have to pop the clutch, pull back hard on the emergency break, quickly turn as far right as you can and then straighten out once you're in reverse.
4:48 PM
@Færd Even there, that means that while you would have liked to have eaten an ice cream yesterday, you did not manage to do so.
The Færd and the Furious
So people really jumped down Geoff Pullum's throat for his Language Log article on singular they.
@Mitch A new one?
@Mitch :))
@terdon The most recent one, like Monday?
@terdon Yes. That's a simple past kind of meaning.
Never mind.
4:50 PM
and then a rebuttal on Tuesday (after a storm boiled over)?
My question really was why the logic is broken in the past perfect:
> present: "I will" ---> He says he will
I think the past perfect is rare enough that native speakers just wing it.
> simple past: "I will" ---> He said he would
> past perfect: "I will" --> He had said he would have
@Mitch Yeah.
English is not Latin with all it's logical tenses and aspects and moods conjugated in every single combination
Thank goodness for that.
4:52 PM
Which gives me a chance to talk about my hypothesis about Latin.
I don't think Latin was really ever naturally that complicated.
Hmm since I know no Latins except through other languages, I have no idea.
I think most of the classic authors 'pristine' grammar was an intellectual construction that no native speaker ever grasped.
@Færd Excellent. Then I can say anything and you'll accept it as well-reasoned and insightful even if there is no basis in reality.
That's the kind of boost I need knowing that it is already next Wednesday and I have a lot of catching up to do.
I could do you that favor if you're so in need of it.
Arabic purportedly used to have devilish grammar ...
.. you have no idea
4:56 PM
@Færd I think that is just classic scholars intellectually and consciously creating and enforcing rules that just weren't ever there in spoken speech
And when you look at what remains of the those mostly illiterate Arabs and their poems and speeches etc, it kinda conforms with the theory
But there are many many exceptions, which are dismissed as "exceptions" in the intellectual world
making their books so pristine and accurate.
So I half agree with you
There's actually evidence of many of the classic verb forms of Latin found in various mangled versions in the Romance dialects. So I'm not entirely right. But my heart is in the right place.
slightly center-left of my chest, in case you thought I was a Vulcan or something
@Færd or maybe they were all just making mistakes as they went along
I agree with you a thousand percent, if that's enough?
a thousand'll do.
for now
OK good.
Let me now when you ran out.
4:59 PM
sure enough
I bet old Persianhad complicated conjugations
@Mitch I thought you might be a timelord
@Mitch It did.
I don't know the details though.
Silly old generations.
@Mitch oh man. . .
@MattE.Эллен where are their hearts? multiple ones strung along their spine like lizards and snakes?
@Færd Old people just get in our way with their weird old complications
one on the left and one on the right, apparently
5:05 PM
@terdon right. it just blew up on him. he probably had no idea that was going to happen.
@MattE.Эллен Oh. Hm. Like kidneys. Good for them.
Tuesday Response
@Mitch Yeah.
Wednesday Pullum responds to that
I bet the future generations will be wondering why we didn't adopt a simple language like Esperanto already. At least as the lingua franca.
I cut you off.
@Færd I don't care for Esperanto. I prefer Toki Pona because it sounds funny in English
Q: What do you call a person that gives refuge to a refugee or grants asylum to an asylum seeker?

DavidJNatarajanI'm wondering if there is a common term for a person who grants refuge or asylum. I understand that a refuge is a place that provides protection or shelter of some sort, but in a modern context it's often the case that someone has to grant that refuge whether it's in a house or in a country. Is...

5:50 PM
Q: What do you call the new pattern that we perceive in the relative movement of patterned objects?

ChaimSometimes a purely static image will appear to be moving because of some design feature. That’s not what I’m asking about. I’m asking about an illusion that arises only through real movement involving patterned objects. This movement can be supplied by the movement of one object with respect ...

6:24 PM
@Færd It works exactly like that. "I would have done it" (but didn't because excuse). "I would have liked to have had an ice cream" (but didn't because excuse).
The statements are irrealis. They contrast to some other reality: "actually, I couldn't do it" or "actually, I did not know there was ice cream".
6:43 PM
Q: Is there a name for a building that produces potions?

3lliotA few friends and I are developing a game that involves producing potions, however we're finding it hard to think of the name for a building suited to producing potions specifically. Some names we have thought of include: Workshop Factory (This seems like more of a modern term, which goes agai...

Q: A single word for an immigrant from a different part of the same country

LKLI'm looking for a single word for 'immigrant' here, that specifically refers to people from a different part of the same country. "As the capital city, X has a very large immigrant population". I feel that immigrant in this sentence could be understood to mean immigrants from outside the country.

7:37 PM
@Mitch Doesn't Peter O'Toole speak Toki Pona? Or am I thinking of Magic Johnson?
8:08 PM
@MetaEd Easy mistake to make. I mix those two up all the time.
@terdon My eyes are up here, buster.
1 hour later…
9:22 PM
@MetaEd Eva Gabor?
@Mitch That's got to be an anagram for something.
Ova Barge. Well, at least that's in kind with Peter O'Toole.
Also Boa Grave and A Brave Go are pretty good.
And maybe "Rag be ova".
Q: Is there a sarastic synonym for the word "compare"

EdwardIs there a sarcastic synonym for the word "compare", such as when one compares oneself to an individual of unattainably great stature or success. Thanks.

hello, folks
could you please help me to know where this document token from ?
I already download the book called " Business Result Upper Intermediate "
oxford 2008
but i didn't find that particular document there
Thanks in advanced
10:00 PM
@Mitch Eva Gabor. Agorae, borage, oarage, ravage, abear, abore, above, agave,
agora, aroba, barge, begar, bevor, brava, brave, bravo, garbe, garbo, grave, grove,
aero, agar, ager, arba, area, areg, arvo, aver, bare, bear, bego, berg, boar, bora,
bore, brae, brag, brog, ergo, garb, gare, gave, gear, goer, gore, grab, grav, ogre,
over, raga, rage, rave, rego, robe, rove, vara, vare, vega, vera, verb, voar, aba, abo,
aga, age, ago, arb, are, ava, ave, avo, baa, bag, bar, beg, boa, bog, bor, bra, bro,
Also Agra, Arab, Argo, Boer, Borg, Ebro, Gaea, Reba, Reva, Roeg, Vega, Vera, Abe, Ara, Ger, and Rae.
Eva, a Borg!
10:40 PM
Technically that's an answer, but it does not even partially address the actual question (about punctuation). Incidentally, the stranded preposition rule is not one that most experts care for, or set much stock in.¹MetaEd ♦ 1 min ago
Too snarky?
11:22 PM
@MetaEd No. It is directly and openly negative.
@MetaEd Maybe not snarky enough.
See youtube.com/watch?v=9OLxLK_R6jQ. There is no such "rule" in English that says you can't end a sentence with a preposition. — Robusto 1 min ago
The rule about not ending a sentence with a preposition is a stubbornly persistent myth.
11:52 PM
@Robusto That's why they call it a 'zombie' rule. Also, it eats your brains.

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