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12:00 AM
@Catija Mmm tastes like campfire so good.
See... it's weird... I'm a Texan, so BBQ is ... an acquired taste? I'd be expatriated if I didn't like it.
I like my coffee like I like my partners... Cold and bitter
I like my partners like I like my coffee... Strong with a little whiskey ;)
I am concerned about the burning thing... everything I see is that people go there and get high and naked and set things on fire... I... don't see the draw. I love fire... but ... eh. What makes it interesting to you?
Concerned is wrong... I don't know how better to phrase it... But I'm in a really weird place right now so it may be better to just ignore me.
12:09 AM
@Catija Radical self expression, acceptance, and adventure.
Oh, that explains it. I don't do self expression... I don't have any "self" to express.
When you don't exactly fit the mold, it's nice to think about communities that have tossed the mold out and do their own thing.
@Catija this is much more concerning...
mold is gross.
Seems to be a trend around here. Heard the same from @Magisch and @Tinkeringbell
Well, self expression requires some self-introspection and knowing who you are... I still haven't figured that out.
12:13 AM
@Catija yup, I've been telling people that, but they seem to like to fit the mold.
I figure most of my interests are influenced by the people around me.
Haven't been able to figure out what I'm interested in and what I'm interested in because someone I care about is interested in it... if that makes any sense.
@Catija Never too late to have some adventures...
Rasing a person isn't an adventure?
@Catija I've been there.
@Catija oh it definitely is, but you gotta have you time too.
Well... he goes to bed at 7 ish...
12:17 AM
@Catija They have these wonderful new things called babysitters, or free babysitters that call themselves "grandparents" ;)
@apaul The free ones don't live nearby. The paid ones ... are expensive.
I went from seeing a movie a week give or take to seeing four-five in a year.
@Catija Yikes... You gotta get out more than 4 or 5 times a year.
I took a sugar skull decorating class?
@Catija that's cool, and creative too.
12:23 AM
@Catija Neat, is that actual piped icing? This may sound stupid, but I don't think I've ever seen a sugar skull made of actual sugar?
HA HA. The skull is just sugar and some meringue powder and water. The decorations are a combination of molded fondant and piped royal icing.
@Catija Sweet lol
So what's this nonsense about not having a self to express?
You clearly have interests?
I don't have anything to say. I do better at adapting other people's things... when I cook, I use recipes, when I do art, it's based on something - that skull is supposed to be Princess Leia...
I don't know if I even like SW because I like it or because liking it is cool... when I see how deep some people get into liking SW... I feel like an impostor.
Because I don't follow anything other than the films.
12:32 AM
@Catija Eh, uber fandom is overrated anyway
If nothing else, adventures teach you an awful lot about who you really are... Most of the reason I like them anyway.
I think that's part of it... I see people who get really, really involved in something... politics, fandom, idolizing someone... music... whatever... I'm a dabbler. I don't have a deep interest in anything...
So I feel like I'm doing something wrong.
@Catija Honestly I tend to be the same way with most things... But I'll fight pretty hard for my peoples and the things that really matter to me.
Some things are worth doing just for the life experience though... Adventures are good for you, builds character or some such...
2 hours later…
2:16 AM
Q: How to turn do an invitation?

User1111111My partner and I were recently invited as guests to a fairly prestigious event ($150/ticket) by someone we know. We aren't particularly close to this person, but would like to keep a relationship. Neither of us are very interested or comfortable at this type of event, but the offer seems very gen...

3:11 AM
1 hour later…
4:38 AM
Echo 4
4:58 AM
Q: How does this site fit the SE model?

DennisLet me preface this by noting that this is a question asked out of genuine curiosity and confusion and is not meant as an attack on this site. Given the nature of the question, it can easily be taken as an attack, but that is not my intent. From what I’ve gleaned about SE from my years of partic...

Q: I feel like starting an edit war with the title on question 6389. Help?

MalandyQuestion 6389: How can I react better if someone confesses their identity that I have little or no knowledge of? I changed it to "How can I react better if someone confesses to an personality trait that I have little or no knowledge of?" And then @apaul reverted it. I placed a c...

2 hours later…
6:29 AM
Morning! @NVZ
4 hours later…
10:23 AM
56 messages moved to Trashcan
Be Nice, y'all.
I was going to try to edit and save that conversation, but it went back further than I hoped and it wasn't worth saving. So, it's gone. Keep it that way.
(N.B.: That move will have invited anyone who participated in that conversation to Trashcan. That is, unfortunately, unavoidable - I'm not asking you to join Trashcan, it's private for a reason.)
o_O I go take a shower and clean my apartment and I come back to a timeout
So... Helpful....
@Magisch Things got a little out of hand.
That's what timeouts are for right?
seems like art has a handle on it
@Tinkeringbell Right thing you did there.
@Tinkeringbell Yes
10:33 AM
Dead on, good call @Tinkeringbell :)
@ArtOfCode Thanks... I'm still not very comfortable pressing buttons here ;-) :P
You too @AJ :)
I'm sorry. I'm all for having constructive discourses on these subjects, but this was getting out of hand and reaching the point where such a discourse became impossible.

You know you've got the be nice policy on your side here, so don't worry too much about it :)
@Tinkeringbell You'll only learn riding a bicycle when you sit on it and push pedals. :)
@AJ Hah! I'm Dutch... I was riding a bicycle before I could walk properly :P
(okay, tricycle) :P
@Tinkeringbell O_o
@Tinkeringbell Yep :P
One of those.
Parent gets to push you, and the pedals can be locked to serve as no more than footrests :)
(mine sadly wasn't bright pink though :( )
10:41 AM
This was just a quote about you not being very comfortable pressing buttons.
Unless you delete a user, things can be undone here.
(given undone is the right term)
Everything I posted was deleted, business as usual...
@AJ Yeah, but it also offers a nice change of subject! :P
@AJ Did you ever learn to ride a bike?
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, by getting my hands and elbow scratched.
:(.... I fell a few times as well ;) But that wasn't as bad as my oldest brother...

The frames of bikes for males are bit different than those for women:

Male frame: https://www.fietsenopfietsen.nl/media/catalog/product/cache/4/image/1000x1000/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/l/altec_metro_28_inch_herenfiets_zwart_-_7_versnellingen_2.jpg
Female frame: https://www.rijwielenshop.be/shops/wwwsmartbikerbe/essence-thompson-essence-vrouwenfiets-10-percent.jpg

My brother always hurt himself on that bar when he wanted to get off his bike.... :/
@Tinkeringbell But I learned riding a Luna(bi‌​ke, not the one you might think) before properly learning how to ride a bicycle.
10:56 AM
@AJ Ahh.. motorized bikes :) I never learned to ride one of those...
No need to learn how to pedal.
@AJ True :-) But that isn't the most difficult part of riding a bike :P
Yeah, I know.
11:39 AM
Q: turning people down for a relationship

HazzdoodI am a 15-year-old aromantic asexual. People at school say I'm really attractive, I've had 4 people ask me out in 2 weeks and my friends say that lots of people they know want to ask me out. As I am aromantic asexual (that's the closest description I could come up with anyway) I am not at all in...

11:57 AM
Not sure what IPS can do with that question
12:19 PM
@Shog9 obvious example is that a group of people can vote to do something that no individual in the group wants to do
Looking at the answer, it's pretty clear to me that no one there is writing from experience with that facebook group or a similar facebook group
Which is one of the problems with the "anyone can answer any question on this site using common sense" type of attitude
12:38 PM
@ExtrovertedMainMan Hmmm.... Well, turning people down without hurting feelings is one skill.... but I think the goal here is pretty unclear.
12:53 PM
@Tinkeringbell I agree. If the question is about turning people down without hurting feelings then the provided context is unnecessary. If the goal is something else it's unclear right now
@Hamlet You're not mod anymore?
1:17 PM
Because today is a rainy day! :)
1:54 PM
Update: I took Catijas and Xanders approach yesterday and cooked her an awesome 3 course dinner, after which i initiated our first relationship-talk. It turns out that she does have similar feelings for me and the keeping it a secret was to give herself some more time to think about it without external influences of her friends. I said I would give her some more time, but I have a really good feeling about this. @fixerlt — Cashbee Nov 3 at 8:35
oh, it's lovely seeing updates like that..
@Tinkeringbell Google has a solution to that. Must watch. ;)
2:37 PM
@Tinkeringbell So, I'm guessing you've got 231 different words for rain, right?
1 hour later…
3:59 PM
Q: I am a 17 years old software freak but nobody understands me

zack raiyanI am a middle-class family guy from Bangladesh.My family include my mom and myslf.My father left us years back.Now i'm in 10th standard. What i want to talk about now is my dream. My dream is to create my own tech company.But before going to that , let me say what i'm doing right now and what is ...

Voted to close that one as off-topic.
@AnneDaunted same
4:22 PM
Is anyone aware of a meta post talking about users bashing or degrading another network site?
Not offhand, but no, that's not really acceptable.
@AJ he stepped down voluntarily a few weeks ago.
@Tinkeringbell that's because the bar for women is lower so that they don't have to lift their skirts up too high, I think
@Oleg if you feel that something that you wrote was incorrectly deleted, please raise it on Interpersonal Skills Meta. But note that answers are being removed for not providing an interpersonal solution, or for not meeting the quality standards, or for being rude, and other reasons. I'd advise taking another look at what you wrote and try to think of why it might have been deleted.
4:38 PM
@apaul Not that I know, but I haven't read all of meta (yet)
Q: Is this roommate going too far?

Jayen09Brace yourselves for a long post. Sorry in advance. Also, apologies if this is the wrong Stack Exchange to be posting this question in. It seemed the most appropriate at the time. The short version: My roommate enforces tight rules and restrictions that I find unreasonable. Furthermore, they a...

@Magisch writing one now.
Q: My community is better

apaulI've noticed a bit of inter-site or intercommunity conflict going on. I understand that people are inclined to believe that their corner of the network is the best and they should think that to a certain extent, but I think it may be taking things a little too far when it spills out into openly t...

5:13 PM
@Mithrandir You deserve a penny for that thought.
@apaul I wouldn't be surprised if another similar question exists, but I definitely agree
@Mithrandir24601 I tried a bunch of different searches and couldn't find anything related, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something related out there somewhere.
5:46 PM
@Mithrandir True. There's even special saddles so long skirts wont be a problem...
@Mithrandir24601 I haven't counten them, but yeah we've got a lot of vocabulary to express our disappointment of the weather
@apaul: please consider editing your question to start with an actual question. Currently, you provide a lot of context, then a question, then a disclaimer - the end result is that it appears to be a lot more broad than you probably intended it to (the title in particular suggests a very open-ended problem).
I've edited to correct the latter and to remove the "notice" you'd added to the post; I've replaced the latter with the "controversial topic" notice, which I expect is what you were going for and which had also been requested in a flag.
I do believe that further tightening up the question would eliminate much of the frustration you're having with responses; as appealing as it is to ask a very broad question and try to filter out a solution from a diversity of answers, if in truth you have a very specific need then it's best to just focus on that and let folks who can't address it pass on by.
6:12 PM
There's a shog in here somewhere
What we need is a photo of Shog9 saluting. (This is my #1000 chat message here!)
AKA: Captain Stack Exchange.
Q: Why was this answer got deleted?

Vylixhttps://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/6839/49 I don't think this answer is worth deleting. The facts in the question are reiterated in a blunt way, not rude. The inappropriate word has been edited out (and is easily removed). If you don't agree how the answer is delivered, please do not e...

6:58 PM
@Shog9 I tweaked the title, but I'm not seeing a problem with the rest of it.
@Shog9 It's pretty common to have background before the question in the body of our questions here... Are you saying that's not optimal? Or is there just too much background for your taste, giving people too much premises to challenge?
7:14 PM
@Shog9 I btw read that article on slack you posted in here yesterday.... that walled garden thingy might be the facebook question answer
Mmm hmm
@Shog9 I know what the controversial topic notice is for and I'm thinking it's helpful, but the name of it feels a little clunky...
@Tinkeringbell pretend you're a passing reader with Many Opinions but no special training or experience as a mediator or sociologist. You see a question... Can you answer it? Does it touch on some area of your personal experience? How do you determine these things?
@Shog9 Is this site chartered to cater to "passing readers with many opinions" and not experts?
I'm asking because SO isn't, it's for experts and heavy enthusiasts to answer and everyone else just read / ask
@Magisch heh... Read the audience description
7:25 PM
> Beta Q&A site for the life skills we use every day to communicate and interact with other people.
I guess that does sound rather all encompassing
Thats quite a deviation from the usual SE model then, eh?
Does M&TV only attract professional movie critics?
Heck, does it attract any?
@Shog9 well, I have a pair of brainhalves... that aren't especially good at these games, but it's weekend so I'll play... Does everybody here have to be a mediator or sociologist to answer? NO. Can I answer every question here?
That's not anatomically impossible. Does every answer then touch on my personal experience? No. How do I determine which questions to answer? Experience on here... So, if Im a passing user with more opinions than common sense, yes, there are a lot of things in there I could use to slap my opinion on and hurt.
@Catija Idk, my only activity on that site has been deleting spam
Thinking about it some more, TWP is also for anyone who works a job so ... most people
I guess I could conjure something that wouldn't be deleted to every question on here
Yes. Workplace "professionals" would be HR/management.
That doesn't mean that I want to go polluting the Q/A with lots of very mediocre answers
I answer questions where I think I can add a useful perspective
7:29 PM
@Magisch I'm pretty sure that's what most well meaning user's do...
@Magisch yeah but if you wanna play you've got many opinions and less common sense
common sense is tricky because according to themselves everyone has it
@Shog9 was that the kind of thoughttrain we should look for when determining whether theres too much detail or not?
Not me. I have no common sense.
This is something I've argued with the Cooking mods for over a year. If an answer has even a whiff of an actual answer, they decline NAA flags. So, with my time spent there, I have to decide whether I think we should follow them or require more from our answers. This is why I hesitate to be too heavy handed with deletes
7:31 PM
I had something that annoyed me today
two comment flags were declined but the comments are gone anyways
@Catija I think we can be strict here...
@Magisch Yeah... that happens to me too sometimes.
It annoys me because I really like stats and try to keep my helpful flag % across the network above 99,5%
Why? Any answers may help someone. How can we objectively decide which is which?
so I need 400 helpful flags to offset this
7:33 PM
heh. I don't really care about the %, I just try to keep the red number low
@Catija Hmmm, also true. We could at least dv and vlq.... but: if the hint isn't ips, be strict!
Which is what I'm trying to do anyway
I'm not really sure what I think about it. I'm stuck between wanting to burn one-sentence answers with fire and not wanting to delete useful content.
one sentence answers aren't really useful content
if they don't provide an explanation they're... kinda useless, i think
since just saying 'do this' isn't helpful
you need the reasons for why to do it
On this site... yes.
7:39 PM
@Catija Good answers include why and how... if one is missing (or both) which is likely in a one liner... burn
Why? I'm not saying I disagree but if that's going to be our decision, we need to be able to back it up.
Robert Cartaino on September 29, 2010

Stack Exchange is about questions with objective, factual answers. We’ve been crystal clear about this for as long as I can remember, even back to the earliest, pre-beta days of Stack Overflow. It’s right there in the standard Stack Exchange FAQ:

What kind of questions should I not ask here?

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered!

Thus, questions that are not answerable — discussions, debates, opinions — should be closed as subjective. It seems simple enough: Fact good; opinion and discussion bad. But why? …

Also... The one liners are very often shorter crappier versions of answers that are already present.
I've been reading and rereading that lately... I think I'll make it homework for every person here...
@Catija because if you don't provide an explanation, there's no way to tell why you should do this, or what thought process what behind them, or if this is actually just a half-baked idea that'd going to explode in your face or something. If you don't provide an explanation of why doing/saying something is helpful, we don't know how you arrived at that conclusion and whether your train of thought to get to that conclusion is in any way, I suppose, 'valid'.
We can't vet the post if we don't know why you're saying to do what you're saying to do.
7:41 PM
I've read that more times than I can count... we still need to explain why we are choosing to delete content that doesn't follow it. Bad answers get downvotes.
I wanted to use it as a source to @Hamlets latest meta question... but it doesn't divide between experience, sources or common sense
You could be offering the best advice in the world, or it could be the thing that breaks your relationship. But we can't tell if the answer is useful or not - to upvote or downvote - if we don't know why you are saying this.
I haven't even made a post today and I'm only 10 rep off the cap
Am I making sense or should I go knock my head against the wall?
@Catija That's an interesting one... I'm willing to put that on meta....
But I'm thinking we might need to delete because we're a bit different here...
I'll mull it over...
7:46 PM
@Mithrandir see my last message. It's not about whether they are useful or not. Bad/wrong answers get downvotes.
@Catija I know. But I'm saying we can't tell if what you're saying is useful or not without an explanation of why you're suggesting whatever you're suggesting.
@Catija Are you moderators in the habit of clearing r/a flags off answers if they're delete worthy but not r/a level bad?
I'm asking because I've seen quite a few where they haven't been. And this has some severe implications for the posters that might not be intentional
if it's flagged a r/a but not deleted as r/a it'll just be hidden, no blocks
Like, unless it's flag-deleted (or possibly if you hit the 'delete' button from the mod queue, not sure) as spam or rude/abusive the penalties won't hit in. If it has a pending R/A or spam flag and is manually deleted the post will be hidden, but that's it - it's not fed to SpamRam, from what I can tell.
@Magisch dunno? Gimme an example and I'll check. But have to go. Getting nails done.
@Catija Oh dear! So you won't be typing anything for a while... be careful!
7:50 PM
Gel, so it should be about 30 minutes. :P
@Catija hmmmm, but if you want them to look nice for more than a few hours... Anyways, have fun!
Slowly giving my fingers skin cancer.
Well if it's making you happy
Gel dries completely due to UV.
And makes my typing pretty.
@Catija hahaha :D
I never ever had luck with any kind of nail treatment.... it always comes off after a few hours
7:54 PM
If I leave, maybe @Shog9 will come back. :P
@Catija here's hoping...
you can never get rid off the shog
@Catija Did you scare shog that much, that they won't come here as long as you're around?
@Tinkeringbell here's hoping for that too ;)
Darn... I thought a little light trash talking would surely bring him around... If we say his name enough times he's sure to appear, like Beetlejuice.
@Tinkeringbell it's what you should look for, period. If the question doesn't effectively - and quickly - answer those questions, you're gonna get folks who should answer passing it by and folks who shouldn't kibitzing.
8:08 PM
@Shog9 hmmm ;-) I can agree... but it takes quite a bit of effort to dumb down to that level.... :-(
@apaul, did you follow?
@Tinkeringbell Follow what?
@Tinkeringbell I was bugging @Shog9 about something else entirely...
To riff on @Catija's MTV comparison... Imagine you were asking about the reason for the existence of light sabers in Star Wars... And you titled your question "doubts about sci-fi weaponry" and launched it with two paragraphs pertaining to your ongoing research into combat technology.
Do you suppose it might affect the answers?
@Shog9 comparing apples to poverty, but I sorta get your point.
@apaul Huh? Ithought you were asking 'what's the problem with my question body'?
Maybe that background is useful, even essential... But it's a bad lead-in.
8:17 PM
@Tinkeringbell Nah, he poked at one of mine too.
@apaul yeah... we're talking your question body :-P
@Shog9 it is a bit of a quibble don't you think?
But I did the exercise and can see his point....
@Tinkeringbell oh sorry, I misread.
@apaul yeah, my apologies as well, that sentence was too ambiguous
8:21 PM
@Magisch TBH I don't see the point of the edits on top here interpersonal.stackexchange.com/posts/6844/revisions
both are valid English
I was more concerned about the change in the title and the wording of the post notice, than the reorganization of problem statements before background info.
@Mithrandir I wanted to add a tag anyways so I reformatted some as well
'I am' ==> 'I'm' or vice versa is kinda a pointless edit, though
the only things I'd consider an actual improvement there is the tag and the coming off badly ==> coming off like I'm rude or inconsiderate change
but whatever
@apaul hmmm... but in this case, it might be well worth it: people will see what your question is and then the relevant info...
They'll not form judgments based on the body then, but are maybe able to see it as a background to where the question is coming from...
8:37 PM
@Tinkeringbell Feels awkward trying to word the question before the background information. I gave it a shot, but I suspect it won't really change how people respond. cc @Shog9
Q: How can I correct my family's use of language related to LGBT+ issues without making them uncomfortable?

apaulHow can I correct my family's use of language related to LGBT+ issues without making them uncomfortable? I recently "came out" as queer, or more specifically somewhat pansexual¹, to two more members of my family. They were very understanding, or at least tried to be, but it was still really awk...

So... About that "controversial" thing...
I'm sure there's a better word that could be used there, anyone have any ideas?
@apaul this might be for ELU?
@Tinkeringbell More for meta, but I didn't want to start the discussion there without offering an alternative.
@Tinkeringbell that's a little better, but I doubt that would fit the varied uses of the notice...
@apaul controversial is just harsh enough... if you tone it down, it might be less scary and effective
Although I can undersrand the disappointment related to things being labeled controversial
8:55 PM
@Tinkeringbell Ya... Labeling things like questions about LGBT+ related problems as "controversial" will irritate a lot of people and may give the impression that the bigoted point of view is being legitimized...
I think controversial in this context refers to that it's a sensitive subject in this case
@apaul Hmm... I'm not familiar enough with those feelings to understand how deep they may go... but doesn't controversial just mean 'a topic likely to create public disagreement'?
Best not to think too hard about the implications of that
@Tinkeringbell I think apaul is referring to the fact that the notion that lgbt acceptance is considered controversial is in and of itself offensive
Lgbt is 1 example, if I were to ask a question about the behaviour of people I went to church with... a notic might just as well get slapped on it
@Magisch yes that.
9:00 PM
@Magisch yeah, that's where I can relate to disappointment
This can be extended to other topics
But to me I don't think I can ever say it goes deeper than that
@Magisch yup
I can relate to that offense even though I don't take it
So, I alluded to this when introducing the notice, but... Its use should be governed by evidence of controversy and kibitzing, not topic. That's why I originally named it "controversial question"...
When there's controversy, then add the notice.
When that dissipates, remove the notice.
9:04 PM
@Shog9 Would there be a chance to get a sensitive topic notice?
I guess it just feels like "it's only controversial for people who either don't understand, or are actively being kinda shitty"
Or should we conduct the site in such a way that every topic is treated in the way that people can't wantonly belittle each other
@apaul ...that's true for everything
@apaul that's those users with Many Opinions shog referred to earlier
That's like... The definition of controversy.
9:05 PM
@Magisch "sensitive" is slightly better, but it still carries some connotations...
The thing is
Adjective: controversial (comparative more controversial, superlative most controversial)
  1. Arousing controversy—a debate or discussion of opposing opinions.
  2. (Can we date this quote?) Macaulay:
  3. Whole libraries of controversial books.
  4. controversial (plural controversiales)
  5. controversial...
At some point one has to come to grips with the fact that some topics attract more annoying trolling ... and that's why we have that notice. For specific questions that do
If you go around to get offended at every time someone is shitty to you, it wears your patience thin incredibly quickly
@Magisch I don't have a problem with the notice. I think having it is a good thing, it could just use a better name.
As for posts, I think it's fine to just get rid of posts that violate the be nice
"be nice" is a pretty high standard as far as online conversation goes
9:09 PM
Also, @Oleg, just because I disagreed with you on one meta post doesn't mean you can't contact us if you feel there's a problem elsewhere. I disagree with most people; still got a job to do.
(re: comment on that deleted answer)
@Shog9 to place this in a slightly different context. Is global warming controversial, or are a bunch of people being deliberately ignorant?
Those are not mutually exclusive
@apaul Is black pete controversial or are people just out to bash Dutch traditions because they don't fully understand?
@Shog9 Is treating their point of view as valid and agreeing to terms based on that premise a wise decision?
I can imagine soooo much topics that, when not written down with extraordinary care, will require such a notice
9:12 PM
@apaul I don't know what you're asking; can you state the question in different terms?
@Shog9 Just trying to say that illuding to the possibility that both sides of an issue are some how equal, and/or worth giving equal voice to isn't great...
Labeling something controversial, can easily be read as "there's room for debate here, this thing isn't settled."
If anyone is here arguing whether Global Climate Change is real or not, they aren't focusing on IPS, so there's no giving equal time. Other than they both equally get zero time to argue.
@apaul controversial things are controversial precisely because each side thinks their opinions are not equal to the other.
@apaul Hmmm.... for me, it always came across as a warning that the post is being closely monitored to ensure respectful discourse... that I don't want to burn my fingers on writing anything 'controversial'
9:23 PM
The likelihood of a coin flip being heads vs being tails isn't controversial.
@Shog9 Ya... But we're not talking about a coin flip now are we?
@apaul no, we're not - which is why the topic is controversial.
@Shog9 But it shouldn't be. And choosing a better word will likely reduce negative reactions...
@apaul the dead name comment above that may have a point? But I'm no expert on that... can't you just use 'previous' or 'old' @apaul?
Nobody thinks their beliefs should be controversial. If everyone else just believed the same way, life would be so much less complicated.
9:28 PM
@Shog9 if everybody had a few classes on cultural relativity that would massively help as well....
What's normal for me isn't for you....
Because culture
It starts with looking at yourself.
@Tinkeringbell like... everyone being astonished that people borrow each other's bikes here...
I had classes on headhunting and shrunken heads, on drug use for religious purposes... if you never learn that 'those things are normal for those people and if I want to understand I shouldn't judge'...
You'll never understand
9:31 PM
@Shog9 looks in mirror hmm, I should probably get a haircut
If you can't see the flaws in your own beliefs, attitude, behavior... Everything else is just weird misguided outsiders.
@Mithrandir Yeah, that's just weird, who needs to borrow a bike? :P
Who wants to buy a question idea?
If that was a thing. (Sorry.)
Centuries of colonial empires had gobs of exposure to other cultures. And catalogued them neatly as curiosities from benighted peoples.
If your foundation is "I'm right and everyone else is wrong", there's no amount of evidence or argument that will end with another conclusion.
9:36 PM
@HenryWHHackv2.1 I haven't had my paycheck yet :(
You're either vindicated or martyred.
@Tinkeringbell OK.
@HenryWHHackv2.1 but why not post your own question?
@Shog9 yeah....
Hello, Mr. @Shog9! :)
I did it!
I think.
9:39 PM
Don't have much to add to that... the internet is a shitty place, we're doing our best to create a walled garden by focusing on answers and not discussion..
Makes me wonder... should frame challenges be banned here because they are basically discussion in an answer?
@Tinkeringbell probably a bad idea...
@apaul yeah, but I'm having more and more trouble with those lately..
This is what Parenting ended up with, precisely because everything in Parenting is controversial.
Allowance vs. paid work
corporal punishment vs. reasoning vs. psychological punishment
co-sleeping vs. isolation
many toys vs. some toys vs. ...no toys
See this one for example... interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/q/2126/1599 it might be a valid frame challenge, but it was absolutely unnecessary to include 5 sentences saying the same point in harsh words to an OP that's already feeling bad
@apaul. I'm curious. It's clear that the term "dead name" is causing responses from people. Is there a reason why it's necessary to use that term instead of "birth name"? Yes, we can keep removing comments about it, but why not save us the trouble by using a less controversial term?
9:44 PM
everyone has an opinion and will, given the chance, argue to the death against someone with an opposing opinion.
@Tinkeringbell I am a very shy person. (I am trying to keep a low profile.)
Q: What should we advise when one disagrees with the premise of a question?

HedgeMageSomething came up in the comments on this answer to a question on whether to close controversial questions that I feel deserves its own question: What is the ideal response to a question based on a premise one does not accept? Examples: What is the best way to introduce my 6yo to firearms u...

@Shog9 I read that one yesterday... if you disagree with a fact, it's okay, if not, it's not.. but there's almost no facts to disagree with
@Catija given it's not the point of the question, if you've had to remove more'n a couple of comments and it appears to be an unnecessary distraction, just edit it out.
I've never encountered the term before and didn't know what he was referring to; if it's a euphemism for birth name / prior name then... just say that.
@HenryWHHackv2.1 that's okay, but that won't help you become less shy :-) (take it from someone that was to shy to collect the cup my mom served a construction worker coffe in from our own back garden ) ;-P
9:47 PM
@Shog9 I am completely guessing here without context, but wouldn't it be related to people changing their names?
@JarkoDubbeldam I guess? That's what the current comment from corsiKa assumes.
@JarkoDubbeldam yeah, but we're wondering why it should be called dead and not just prior.... hope @apaul can teach me the difference?
I'm not hep to the jargon, so just going by responses.
I guess it signifies some sort of closure on the past life?
like, you're literally burying your past?
9:50 PM
I could understand how it would be more awful if you consider your previous name dead and peopke still use it?
From my experience "dead name" is used to indicate how much many people hate their previous name being used. It's sort of an indicator of how much it upsets some people.
Like, if it's just prior or birth you still acknowledge it
Well, looking at how upset people get from using the wrong pronoun
Yay, guessed right :P
9:52 PM
So, if this partner is considering their name dead but the family is still accidentally using it... yeah that's bad...
...that's two star wars references in one day. I must be ill.
Noun: deadname (plural deadnames)
  1. The birth name of a person who has since changed their name (especially a transgender person).
  2. 2014, Natalia Moorin, "My Illness Is Not Your Inspiration", Damsel (University of Western Australia), page 21:
  3. And when people constantly refer to you as your deadname [a name that you previously went by], or use the incorrect pronouns, it really is like getting slapped with a wet fish.
  4. 2015 May 19, Jane Fae, "Changing your name should be a joyous moment, but for many it’s a nightmare", The Guardian:
  5. Once you’ve changed your name, accessing the old one can be traumatic: not for nothing is it referred to as “deadname”.
Verb: deadname (third-person singular simple present deadnames, present participle deadnaming, simple past and past participle deadnamed)
  1. To refer to someone who has changed their name by their previous name.
@Tinkeringbell OK OK maybe this will help:
*Shog9 Dude BTW: can I have your autograph? (Just Add "Edited by Shog9" in my profile page.) and pay no attention to what I have there.
pro tip: define: <word> as the sole content of a message in chat will look up and onebox the wiktionary entry
@Shog9 ah thanks
9:54 PM
particularly useful when on mobile
OK that was weird but I have overcome that shyness.
It's a life lesson.
@rumtscho I'm boxing up apples, checking chat periodically
@Shog9 I think that can be avoided with a strict focus on solving problems, not being correct
@rumtscho I can chat late this evening if need-be
so I am doing that now.
if she asks again, I will superping, and you can appear or not decide it for yourself.
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