TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

12:26 AM

@Miniman so tempted to downvote this for "he's the authority on these matters." =D

trogdor

Mk I will probably have some time around 4:30

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

Miniman

@nitsua60 Hey, you do what you gotta do.

BESW

On 10/23 we start #BlackBag Detectives is set in 1977 NYC on @SavingThrowShow . This new season, we'll be using @EvilHatOfficial #Fate

Tweeted by platemailgames on September 19, 2017 at 3:55 PM

12:39 AM

Yawp.

@Shalvenay hiya

@BESW Hmm... I'm not sure that's correct. Mainly because nobody ever explicitly taught me how to walk and I walk heel-first. IIRC, a big thing in marching band is teaching the newbies to walk a different way, no?

Of course if you need to move quickly and abruptly, being on the balls of your feet is better. That's what I learned playing tennis, but just everyday walking is instinctively heel-first.

I think.

Shalvenay

hey again @Yuuki

BESW

I wouldn't know about marching band, but we learn a lot of things we were never explicitly taught.

Yuuki

12:51 AM

Yo.

Shalvenay

hey as well @Ben

@Yuuki how're things going over there? staying dry?

Yuuki

@Shalvenay I will admit that my butt puckered a little bit yesterday when it rained for the first time in two weeks.

Shalvenay

@Yuuki I take it things are slowly returning to normal as well?

Yuuki

Can you get PTSD from rain?

Because I think I have PTSD from rain.

Well, not PTSD but heightened anxiety.

BESW

Sure, natural disasters are traumatic. ...especially the way America tends to handle them.

Ben

1:06 AM

@BESW I do like the idea of "Let's turn Irma into a Llama" (Emperor's New Groove pun). Lightens the anxiety a bit.

As opposed to "Let's shoot at a hurricane because guns ae the answer to everything"

@Yuuki I don't think you can get PTSD for rain in itself, but perhaps you feel that rain can be a trigger for PTSD, for something more severe?

Ben

2:18 AM

So... am currently at work. Someone's asked me to do a job for them. No problem.

I let them know how long it'll take - they get confused, normally it would take longer, following the process that they use.

I try to explain how my process works. It is different, and a bit technical, so they get confused, and frustrated.

I prove that it works, and they still get upset, because they don't understand how it works, even though they can see, and agree, that it works.

I mean, it's good that people are willing to be more efficient... but it can be frustrating to teach some people sometimes

Shalvenay

yeah, that it can be

Ben

I personally, can't really understand things unless I'm given a working example of what happens. Analogy works well too - comparison with a similar process.

Others can really only learn through familiarity.

BESW

Broadly speaking I've found the concept of schema helps a LOT when I'm guiding people to learn new material.

Ben

Then you get the really talented people like @miniman that just absorb things first time :D

Shalvenay

2:33 AM

so, I've been thinking about how a "long form" fey summoning rite would look/work

Ben

@Shalvenay "long form"?

Shalvenay

as in a ritual summon more akin to a planar binding, vs a short-form, "need help nao" combat-type summoning spell

Ben

@Shalvenay Ah right. Your 10-minute rituals

Shalvenay

yeah

I was thinking about using the summoning circle concept, but instead of the ol' fiendish pentagram, inscribing a rank-3 Sierpinski triangle instead ("triangle of three")

Miniman

@Ben Oh crap, I recognise this. He's about to ask me to for a favour.

Ben

2:35 AM

I always imagined that rituals would be mostly sitting in a ring of strange items (powders, beetle legs, etc), mumbling under one's breath

@Miniman When I have one to ask... sure :P

Shalvenay

and the results of the ritual can be varied by omitting triangles in certain places

Ben

@Shalvenay Have you ever read the Bartimaeus Trilogy?

I like the depiction of "Summoning circles" they had in that series. Basically; 2 circles, connected by a row of incantations, inscribed on the ground. The smaller one for the summoner, ringed with protection spells, in the instance that the summoned creature may become hostile; and a larger circle for the summoned creature, surrounded by spells of binding.

It was a cool concept :)

Shalvenay

@Ben I have not, but that actually makes sense

I take it the row of incantations controls what sort of creature you get out?

(and p.s. runaway summons suck, no matter who you are or what you're summoning :P)

(watches druid chasing summoned bear down the main street)

Ben

@Shalvenay Well, in the story, the whole practice was dangerous - if the summoner stepped out of the circle, the whole incantation was broken, allowing the Djinni freedom, for the instant they remained in the 1st plane of existence.

However, I can see that working that way

BESW

3:22 AM

@doppelgreener I'm trying to use Violentmonkey instead of Greasemonkey, and the Fudge script seems broken.

doppelgreener

3:49 AM

@BESW I'll have to check that out next week when I'm back in the UK.

BESW

Aight.

Ben

4:03 AM

@BESW So ghetto

Adeptus

4:19 AM

@BESW Violentmonkey keeps throwing... "Fudge"?

BESW

You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

BESW

5:38 AM

Obduction is $18 on GoG.

It didn't live up to its hype, but it was interesting nonetheless.

...And The Witness is $16. That's pretty good.

Adeptus

6:57 AM

@BESW Abe's Oddysee is free. On both GoG and Humble.

BESW

I'm not familiar. Is it good?

Adeptus

7:13 AM

I've never actually played it. But it was well-received when it was released 20 years ago

trogdor

@BESW never played it, but it is supposed to be really good

I have played Strangers Wrath though, and I really liked that

Adeptus

@BESW has good reviews on GoG and Steam too (also free on Steam)

trogdor

though I understand they are very different games

kviiri

Yeah, Stranger's Wrath is a 3D third-person action-shooter-platformer-thingy, while Abe's Oddysee is a 2D puzzle platformer like the original Prince of Persia.

trogdor

mhmm

just mentioning it as, I dunno, proof that they made good games

kviiri

7:35 AM

Yeah

Abe's Oddysee was a bit too puzzlish for me. The early parts of the game set in the Rupture Farms were fun though.

BESW

It appears to be a bit too Windows-only for me.

I've been trying The Talos Principle lately, and been deeply underwhelmed.

trogdor

@BESW doesn't compare well to The Witness huh?

BESW

Doesn't even hold up well according to its own self-identified principles, so far.

And the sagging is in ways and places that I don't think can turn out to be a clever twist.

The puzzles themselves are okay. Not great, not terrible.

But the framing, which is what's supposed to be so amazing about the game, is so... small... compared to what it should be.

Miniman

7:51 AM

@Adeptus I picked it up this morning - I've been wondering whether it was a coincidence all day.

BESW

You could have made your robot temples look like ANYthing, and they're generic Western church-gothic. You had all of human existence to choose the three philosophical periods to best illustrate your point, and you chose Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece, and Medieval Europe.

trogdor

Egypt sounds like it was a good choice, if possibly overdone

but the other two are definitely overdone

BESW

Eh, Egypt is just focused on a weird re-telling of the Book of the Dead as metaphor for the game.

trogdor

well I didn't know that

I just know that Ancient Egypt was awesome

BESW

And I'm okay with overdone if it's a good fit for your philosophical point. But in a game about the nature of consciousness and the physicality of the self vs the intangibiity of the soul, you skipped all of India and Asia.

Honestly Egypt was the best choice of the three, because the Ka and the Ba work well with the game's allegory.

But, um, hi. Your game is a literal re-enactment of the cycle of reincarnation. Throw me a bone here.

trogdor

7:55 AM

lol

Adeptus

@Miniman Apparently it's to celebrate its 20th anniversary

BESW

(The game's conceit is that you're playing one of many many programs solving puzzles in a digital simulation in order to test for true artificial intelligence. The simulation has been running a very long time, overseen by something that calls itself Elohim and presents itself as the programs' creator.)

kviiri

So deep.

:P

BESW

8:14 AM

It has potential, along the lines of Bioshock, Shadow of the Colossus, and The Witness, to comment directly on the nature of the video game experience.

But nope, not really.

Instead, it's tossed philosophical salad for everybody.

trogdor

lol

@BESW so what was your idea earlier today?

BESW

Okay, so.... NAB? I'm gonna copy-pasta some stuff.

trogdor

mk

kviiri

9:40 AM

One of my players wants to change gods (from Kelemvor, the god of Death, to Lathander, the god of Rebirth) for their cleric and wants the process to be meaningful in-game. (I offered the switch as a total freebie, but he wanted to make it more like a journey of character growth, and I'm ok with that)

Ideas for a cool quest that would serve as a rite of passage/spiritual growth and that would naturally include the rest of the party too?

Anne Aunyme

9:59 AM

who are the rest of the party?

did the character already decide to change his deity, or is it only the player's idea?

Anaphory

@kviiri I have no idea about these gods, but I had my mythic-Greek players essentially do a travel into the underworld/HeroQuest/enaction of the Eleusinian Mysteries at some point to fix what was wrong with Hades.

kviiri

They're all professional adventurers, part of a society that trains and organizes heroes as a public service. There's an elf druid, a human fighter, elf rogue and gnome ranger.

The character already has felt a sense of spiritual disconnection, but it's mostly the player at this point.

I'm not really a fan of making my players run though hoops to play the characters they want to play, but I can see this being a major, interesting plotline for the character as long as it's not overdone.

Anaphory

@kviiri I don't think it's making them jump through hoops when they ask for it.

kviiri

@Anaphory I dunno, I think DnD sort of conditions players to the idea that everything has to be earned.

Anaphory

10:15 AM

In that case maybe you could have Lathander pick up that “stray” cleric and take him in even before a quest, and let the player decide how fast the character is willing to accept it? Reading short bits about that god, he might be one to do that?

kviiri

Yeah, we sort of started that way.

Now I need a proper quest that makes it feel significant :)

Anaphory

10:32 AM

Where would Lathander and Kelemvor differ? Can you build a quest that is an explicit decision between them?

kviiri

I'm not really an expert on the lore, but the player said he finds the grave domain to fall rather flat both mechanically and thematically, and wants his character to focus more on life than death.

I mean, his thing was mainly healing people because they weren't meant to die yet, and performing ceremonial burial to those who had already passed.

BESW

Rebirth... redemption, second chances, hope, renewal, psychopompery. Against anything which halts the soul's progress--such as many forms of the undead.

I once had a character accidentally dedicate himself to the goddess of redemption in my 4e campaign.

kviiri

This would be easy if he was making a sort of redemption move, but Kelemvor is not evil or anything. It would be uncharacteristic for him or his priests to give pursuit to someone who changed their allegiance.

BESW

Nah, you don't need to be evil in order to need redemption.

"The character already has felt a sense of spiritual disconnection."

He needs a second chance, a renewal of faith.

You don't have to be Saul on the road to Damascus to experience a moment of grace.

kviiri

Yeah but I mean, making a move from Evil to Good would be an easy quest opportunity: don't get killed by the agents of the Evil god who seek to off traitors.

BESW

10:46 AM

I'd suggest working closely with the player on this, but what comes to mind is presenting a situation where the guidance of Kelemvor is insufficient to the choices at hand... and somehow give him Lathander's guidance as an alternative.

kviiri

Hmm, that's a good starting point

BESW

Oh, and the cool thing about neither god being directly opposed to the other? He doesn't need to make the transition in a Saul moment.

He can try to balance both for a while.

That's the great thing about pantheons which D&D tends to miss out on.

20

A: How would an Unaligned Vecna worshiper refrain from being/becoming Evil

The D&D gods are a pantheon I'll get into Vecna's personal issues later and how they make this weird, but a common mistake in trying to get a handle on the D&D pantheon is forgetting that pantheistic cultures have much more complicated relationships with their gods than monotheistic cultures. A...

kviiri

@BESW Yeah, that's true.

@BESW Heh, I always try to stress out to my players that people aren't usually monotheistic or even mono-alignment in terms of gods they worship, but most people still like the idea of picking one true patron deity :)

BESW

Hmmm. I did a workup on Wee Jas as a god of death that might be an alternative way to look at Kelemvor's portfolio, instead... [rummages]

kviiri

Tiamat is one of my particular favorites, because as a god of greed and wealth she is a natural one to worship for even perfectly honest businessmen. Or greedy misers who still fall short of being truly Evil.

BESW

10:58 AM

Jan 29 '16 at 12:40, by BESW

I once designed a church of Wee Jas that was dedicated to impartial justice and the proper order of things. One of their self-appointed tasks was making sure people met their proper fates. Sometimes this meant proper burial rights and the occasional vampire staking or zombie beheading, but it also meant they claimed legal jurisdiction to judge murders.

> Keeping the dead in the ground and keeping the living out of the ground before their proper time. They despised resurrection and reanimation magic, but were fine with spells that let you chat with the dead.

3.5 Wee Jas's portfolios, for confusing reasons of tradition, wound up being Death, Magic, Love/Vanity, and Law. So I made her a goddess of destiny: Some things in life are inevitable, and if you accept that she's there to celebrate with you in the good and support you during the bad. But if you try to buck the inevitable, she's there to shove you back on the foretold path.

The fun part is figuring out how a god's portfolio actually intersects with everyday life, and extrapolating policies and doctrines from that.

kviiri

11:15 AM

That sounds a bit like some bits from American syncretic faiths like voodoo.

kviiri

11:27 AM

This player has been playing the grave/death domain as a very "friendly" death priest too. Not really a beacon of laughter, but definitely positive about the fact that everything has to die. ("But not just yet", he adds, healing his wounded comrade)

Anne Aunyme

12:07 PM

Maybe someone important in Kelemvor's clergy just died, and it would be great if he was resurrected. However Kelemvor can't (for political divine reasons) resurrect his own servant, so it has to be a worshipper of some other deity.

So the inquisition of the clergy decides the best is to make that guy who is already borderline with Kelemvor's concepts pass to the side of Lathander. They just throw him outside of the cult, make an agreement with Lathander's clergy so he can join them after he proves him worthy, and here is the quest.

You can (and should) even use this quest as a plothook for your main campaign and/or make it reveal secrets for an other PC's backstory.

I know all this stuff doesn't involves deities as much as cults around them, but it sound less cheesy to me than the weird "you had some dream last night where you saw three fat cows and three skinny ones" when the player already know what's up.

@BESW funny to see how in Pathfinder the goddess of 2nd chances is like the most important one of the good side of the pantheon, and in DD it is a minor one

kviiri

12:36 PM

@AnneAunyme I dunno, we do this kind of stuff all the time.

Shipped the new issue of my inter-session newsletter. One of the PCs' mentor is dead, the collective boss-friend of the PCs' has disappeared, their HQ is under attack. Good setup for an "end-of-season" session.

Anne Aunyme

12:51 PM

Tough times!

@kviiri I mean it is weird when you make it sound mysterious but everyone is already aware about what it means

kviiri

@AnneAunyme I don't think it's that weird, tbh.

I'm completely fine with my players acting out confusion they aren't a part of :P

Anne Aunyme

That's just a question of point of view, it's totally ok to play your way!

I know I often have less fun roleplaying incomprehension when as a player I completely get what's happening.

kviiri

I personally enjoy it the most when the players are far more genre-savvy than their characters :P

BESW

1:15 PM

Ah, once again we ambushed by that most persistent of bugbears, Immersion.

Anne Aunyme

1:34 PM

I was talking more about specific details than general genre-savvyness. If I play a dumb goblin, find a necklace, as a player recognize the strange symbol on it as the one some NPC told us one year ago was a symbol of bad luck, I don't like having to put it on just because my character shouldn't have remembered this fact.

KorvinStarmast

There's a whole lotta shakin' goin' on. While the shake in Mexico today has a rising death toll, there's a lot of seismic activity (and a bit over a week ago there was a big one (8.1) off shore further south)

A bit more powerful than an "earthquake" spell.

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