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12:14 AM
Apparently macerate does not mean what I thought it meant anyway
a better word would have been masticated
but still to short >:(
manducated has the same issue.
12:32 AM
@Sphinx That is... definitely a puzzle. Probably.
that's quite oxymoronic
Not quite an oxymoron, but the self-contradiction was completely intentional.
1:13 AM
@Deusovi :)
My current hypothesis is that the sentence can be divided into five sections that each lead to a word, and the words are somehow related. My first thought was "Clergyman / wife / tell story / picking / muscle", and then maybe "clergyman" became "bishop" and they were all chess pieces, but that led nowhere.
I'm still not sure what the italicised "ing" could mean at all.
1:31 AM
I feel like the italicised "ing" might be extraneous and for surface only? Maybe
The shell reference has to be significant somehow, right? Maybe only the inner or outer letters of the words mean something
Possibly, but "up" and "a" don't seem compatible with that interpretation.
Re C4: ruminated is weirdly almost fitting as a double def. Too short of course
1:42 AM
there it is
Upon seeing that now it makes sense why it was "chewed up" and not just "chewed" :P
CCCC: Nauseous, couple left a piece of cake (4)
2:31 AM
What does the (4) mean? Is it a number of letters or a number of words?
Letters, you might want to look at the guide pinned in the starboard if you're new to cryptics
2:57 AM
"Clergyman's wife" is possibly "father's wife" -> mother?
3:36 AM
@Sp3000 -q-uEASY
I was half hoping for a Portal reference :)
4:22 AM
Question edited:
Q: I apologise to the answer

Soha Farhin Pine Their head sounds like a myth, with an eye for why Endless, it says to meet but briefly so, standing for the very famous MA institute. Then comes the first name of another puzzler, all too familiar Named who is after the prime of a time wheel with a horse god at his feet, startin...

@n_palum @Rubio @Sid @Sconibulus
4:39 AM
CCCC: Reckless wild duo hides cross shifty leader. (9)
4:50 AM
Another anagrind-filled CCCC
What's an anagrind
Short for anagram indicator
@SohaFarhinPine whatchu neeed
@n_palum That apology question was edited, so
Why do you edit it to make trivial changes when the puzzle has been solved?
5:00 AM
I've rejected the edit.
@n_palum If you care to update your answer to match the gratuitous changes to the puzzle, you're welcome to. If you don't want to, that's perfectly fine as well.
5:14 AM
ANGER ("cross", as a verb?) in (DUO)* + S[hifty] = DANGEROUS ("reckless")
and yes, cross as a verb
CCCC: Casual's first to leave without loud type of Pokémon (6)
oh no. I hope that isn't actually a type of Pokemon
I'll be honest. I'm been at a bar for the past 3---4 hours so if you wanna ipdatr it... Go for it. I won't at now.
Go home plum. You're drunk. :P
5:22 AM
@Sid If there was ever a time where this meme was appropriate, that was it.
He he
@Rubio This may or may not be relevant: all Pokemon types (except perhaps "???") are common English words
5:40 AM
even ??? is a common English word
6:07 AM
not that anyone cares: found this from so long ago lol
6:26 AM
Whoops! Our server is Scratching its head.
Aug 2 at 8:52, by ffao
Anagrind = a fancy word that cruciverbalists use to describe almost every word in the English language
See, I saw that, but it wasn't very helpful, especially given I don't know what a cruciverbalist is.
@Pavel People who are experts in crosswords
like sp3k, Oehm, Gareth, Deus and others..
So basically anyone who actually has any business visitin TSL.
I dunno about "experts" - it basically means cross-word-ist. Someone who sets crosswords or is an enthusiast of solving them.
(don't worry, @Pavel, you're not alone in not being a crossword person)
6:39 AM
@Mithrandir I'm not a PSE person. I occasionally visit from PPCG and hope there's a game of Contact on.
Solution: become a Puzzling.SE person! TSL can always give you some guidance on puzzles.
@Mithrandir oops here
@Mithrandir I want to but I have no idea how anything works.
@Pavel feel free to ask
I'm a chat person. When I visit SO main, 97% of the time I get depressed. The remaining three percent is a measurement error.
6:44 AM
@ASCII-only Scratch really should be usable on mobile. This has bugged me for over 5 years.
Puzzles are too hard >_>
@JohnDvorak well. SO is SO. Other sites are not SO.
@Mithrandir well they still use flash so
@Pavel nah, there are some easy ones
But those already have answers
That's the issue
6:45 AM
True. But I feel like I wouldn't be able to answer a puzzling question.
goes to create an easy puzzle
Y'all like word games.
@Mithrandir here, glitchy for some reason, but it uses keyboard anyway
@JohnDvorak Well if I can, then anyone can :P
@Mithrandir Not particularly. Math puzzles are intresting.
Oh, someone poke me later about later, please
ok, I'll keep peeking
6:49 AM
@Pavel , many of the most enthusiastic visitors here, like me, are in the peanut gallery when it comes to CCCC. CCCC is just one of the best features of this landscape.
I like PPCG because it doesn't matter if you're godawful, anyone can answer in a new language even if effectively the best possibile solution has been found.
Here, there's generally one correct answer, and then there's no point for anyone else to answer.
In a perfect world that would be true.
Here I both dread and hope for someone to find a better solution than intended.
A wild humn has appeared!
But you have to be good at puzzling to find a better solution.
On PPCG you can blame your ineptitude on the fact that you're using Java.
And no one minds
@Mithrandir , couldn't resist. I was following up on number bases and saw you were here too!
6:54 AM
I would have given you some links, @humn, but I was only listening to music as I went to sleep and made my phone overheat.
Ideally people would try "solved" puzzles that look good on their own accord. In practice I feel like most people just open up all the spoilers anyway
Anyone else here wean on puzzle books, magazines and newspapers where the full answers were always a few page turns away?
@humn you mean one 180 degree page rotation :P
! in some cases! In newspapers.
@Mithrandir , I haven't looked at the backlog yet, but the speakers are simmering right now.
Can't imagine how a phone could handle 50 Watts/channel. (That's all it takes to annoy the neighbrs around here.)
But if you're still around, @Rubio, so true, base 1 should not even be possible.
Then again:
Golden ratio base is a non-integer positional numeral system that uses the golden ratio (the irrational number 1 + √5/2 ≈ 1.61803399 symbolized by the Greek letter φ) as its base. It is sometimes referred to as base-φ, golden mean base, phi-base, or, colloquially, phinary. Any non-negative real number can be represented as a base-φ numeral using only the digits 0 and 1, and avoiding the digit sequence "11" – this is called a standard form. A base-φ numeral that includes the digit sequence "11" can always be rewritten in standard form, using the algebraic properties of the base φ — most notably...
That's what got me started when Deusovi told me about it, where a "011" can leapfrog, like checkers into an equivalent "100"
Puzzling extensions of bases don't have to be bijective.
Admittedly, though, If 6 was 9, or 100 was 64, or M was N was meant to stay within the bijective lane, but I so much love when someone makes an end-around.
Just in case anyone missed it, another chance for puzzling art, a representation of base 1:
Sorry to bore with number bases. But for those who care, they mean a lot. I'll post a wiki solution soon that uses base 62.5 just to lope along with Jesse's base 1030302010.
@Pavel , then again, anyone can make up a new language. The only one I carried to fruition was called "recurve" for making fractals. Nobody else ever used it (or heard of it, until now) but many saw the results.
7:15 AM
@humn And people do it all the time, half the fun of PPCG is in the esolangs people make.
I enjoy that aspect much more than the golf.
! right on!
(base phi representation of the first few integers)
7:18 AM
Zeckendorf's theorem, named after Belgian mathematician Edouard Zeckendorf, is a theorem about the representation of integers as sums of Fibonacci numbers. Zeckendorf's theorem states that every positive integer can be represented uniquely as the sum of one or more distinct Fibonacci numbers in such a way that the sum does not include any two consecutive Fibonacci numbers. More precisely, if N is any positive integer, there exist positive integers ci ≥ 2, with ci + 1 > ci + 1, such that N = ∑ i = 0...
wowwwwwwwwwwww! ...
... coming from a Fibonacci/Lucas fanatic. Learn something new every day.
Bona fides:
(after reading that article) Base Fibonacci!
... just came by to splash in the number-base wading pool with Rubio, rather than doing so in comments of a post. So delightfully delighted by what was already affoot and what developed instead! This place is too much fun. Now time for a full-moon walk ... see what happens ...
7:41 AM
@Ankoganit but isn't, for example, 8 = 8 (F6) = 5 (F5) + 2 (F3) + 1 (F1)
@boboquack 2 and 1 are consecutive (even though you can argue 1 is F(1), the representation must not include any pair of numbers that can be consecutive Fibonacci numbers)
7:59 AM
Thanks for clearing that up
8:15 AM
No problem
8:35 AM
^ that was a good exchange! (back from a full moon stroll full of other surprises, all safe it turned out)
But if you're still withing quacking range, @bobo, I hope you saw Jesse's rediscovery of one of your infinite solutions to New Mathematics forever. I actually believe they did it afresh.
@humn Do you happen to have a GitHub repo I could see?
Guess not. I don't even know what that means without a web search.
Puzzling SE is my depository of art, if that's what you mean. All that's necessary is to dress it in a puzzle.
Or a link to your Recurve implementation?
Oh thank you for asking!!!! All that are left are printouts, and i've permanently disabled the camera on my computer. That was 1981.
Oh, wow.
I thought you were implying that you answered a PPCG challenge in recurve at some point.
8:43 AM
I should!
Well, for it to be valid, a compiler or interpreter must be available and run on modern hardware.
Wasn't that difficult in the first place. The fun part was to come up with the syntax, which I've forgotten but would enjoy remaking better.
One of our mods, Dennis, is in the business of providing online interpreters for every language ever, including those made by the PPCG community: tryitonline.net
So if you do reimplement it, you can ping him in the TIO chat room and he'll probably add it


For general discussion and feature requests regarding tryitonl...
I've seen how participants conjure Dennis.
Recurve was loosely based on turtle graphics.
But with some extra syntax to make it fractal.
Well, there isn't much use for a language based on graphical output...
8:48 AM
In general, probably a lot of use, on ppcg, not much.
Although there certainly are a few challanges, the vast majority use text io
Dancing to the tune. One of my first programs was to make a Teletype's printout look like a rising wisp of smoke. Wasted a few rolls of paper that way.
I'm not old enough for this conversation >_<
Just saying that I appreciate typewriter/monospace graphics.
ASCII art is fine
Lovely, in fact.
8:53 AM
The best!
Like embroidery.
We have two language that excell at it, that come to mind: Charcoal and V.
Found Charcoal, but V comes up with too many mishits.
V is a wrapper around Vim. Charcoal is the only language I know that has a builtin for drawing an arbitrary n-sided polygon in ascii.
Thank you!
(If anyone tells you about an obscure language, you can generally find it on TIO. Once you're on a language's page, the language name is a link to the implementation)
8:56 AM
TIO comes with too many hits too. Link?
or TIO.run
Got it, duh.
Yeah, I should reincarnate "recurve" but my understanding of fractals goes way beyond line drawings now.
I've lost hours by clicking a random language and trying to understand what it is.
I learn by example more than documentation. But rely on documentation like a life preserver.
(And have written documentation as if others' careers depended on it.)
There's a "Hello, World!" button that gives one example.
9:01 AM
For each language? Or talking about V in particular?
On Try it Online
Right. So what languages are you exploring now, Pavel? (Or did you already say?)
The language I'm looking at right now is Alice
(looking up)
9:04 AM
@Sp3000 NORMAL - [i]N[f]ORMAL without first letter and F (forte, loud).
(Apparently, normal is on of the 18 types of Pokémons. Learn something new every day and hope to forget it by evening.)
well, another clue I was almost sure of what it was but could not get the wordplay
Yup (I was hoping it'd be gettable even without Pokemon knowledge)
@Pavel , the "Hello, World!" TIO example looks nothing like the Wikipedia explanation. Love it!
The Alice programming language on Wiki is a different language actually
9:09 AM
Yeah, the Wikipedia Alice is a practical language you can actually use.
The TIO example looks something like APL, a truly cryptic language.
@Sp3000 Pokémon in a question usually puts me off immediately, but your clarification that we are looking for an English word made me have a go nontheless.
@humn Alice is a 2D language. Like Befunge or ><>, but weirder.
That's the way to have fun!
9:11 AM
Also, TIO has APL. NGN and Dyalog.
And, perhaps someday, recurve.2
.oO(Of all the languages to compare Alice to, APL is not the first that comes to mind)
Postscript or Forth?
Every language looks like a Turing machine until I get the gist.
@humn I know nothing about either of those two languages
Alice looks like, well, Befunge of ><>.
The way a lot of recreational languages work, is there's an instruction pointer that executes commands character by character.
Alice works like that.
Yes, my comment about Forth and PostScript was intuitive but they work like that too.
9:14 AM
The time is ripe for Cruciverb, a two-dimensional language on a 15-by-15 register layout.
has anyone created a working AI interpreter for that, though?
Remind me to make a esolang where every row is a cryptic clue
oh yes, it's called Gareth
Ohohohohohoho! Leave everything up to the interpreter!
Gareth functions as more than an interpreter, by the way.
Gareth functions as a true oracle, given a chance.
9:17 AM
Probably the most intresting esolang I've seen in the last few months is Lost. It's a 2d lang like Befunge, but the trick is that the instruction pointer starts in a random spot going in a random direction.
You can make deterministic programs, but it's hard.
I designed a datumbase (what "database" should be called) once like that. Where you search until you find the kernel.
Every pointer along the way hones it down. It wasn't random.
Bah, that's boring.
It's boringly robust.
Seriously (in puzzling terms), though, and hadn't come to think of it explicitly yet: A good datumbase organizes information in an accessible way and a good puzzle organizes clues alike.
(You should've been there when my sibling, a linguist, and I argued over "database" vs "datumbase.")
Everything about "Datumbase" and "Datum" is wrong.
By now. I admit that.
Signed, reformed prescriptivist.
Now, descriptivist.
9:26 AM
boo hiss
^ that's vernacular
the base contains data, I don't see why it shouldn't be called database
a datumbase sounds like something so tiny as not to be of any practical use
My favrite counterexample is "shoetree." It's not "shoestree." Trying to come up with another.
You really should hear me speak. It's beneath vulgar. People run and hide. What comes out here is some kind of hybrid between that and how I write and edit seriously.
Or "car garage." It's not "cars garage," even when more than car fits in it.
The first part, in the case of "database/datumbase" is "datum" acting as a kind of adjective.
English is such a bizarre language, anything goes as long as it's understood.
except U and literally
(laughing even though I don't completely understand that)
9:35 AM
shoe tree is a bad counterexample, because it fits only one shoe
I get the second one, me feeling that it should be database is maybe my native language's bias kicking in again
@ffao , that's one reason why English fails so sublimely every time. It borrows from so many languages and never pays the debt.
Actually, it gives to plenty of languages as well. And that's why it fails.
Hm? Never thought of that direction. Good one!
In my other native language, come to think of it, "telkkari" is borrowed from "television"
(the handful of things I just thought of saying have already been understood by everyone here, so why not a loud music video while the speakers are simmering)
Until another, a classic scare piece, from Mussourgski and Rimsky-Korsakov, of course, and from Disney, of all places:
And just for historical reference, probably a repeat, Snow White before Disney got to it:
(See what happens without intervention?)
10:08 AM
@Mithrandir , thank you! Now I am too.
That's 41 videos, that'll take a while ;P
The first one is good enough already.
See where it leads. I know how to surface for a breath when necessary.
Well, that's good. So do I, although I'm out of practice.
...although I should probably start heading to the pool more often, so that I can back into practice...
There are (discredited, but plausible) theories of how we have evolved to be aquatic.
10:15 AM
I'm not a fan of evolution theories in general
Say more, if you'd like. You're in safe company. They're just theories. (Don't make me go "devolution.")
Devolution is an empirically observed fact
I'm devolving by the second. So it's ovbious, ain't it?
(looking for a worthy Devo clip while listening to Two Steps from Hell)
Found one far from worthy, but proves that Devo was truly punk once:
I wasn't so fond of punk rock when it surfaced but now it brings back fond memories.
The variegated music that has surfaced here will bring back fond memories decades from now as well.
And this time I'm fond of it at the moment!
(You know the speakers return, and ripple, to the opera you linked (Two Steps) at each interstice, @Mithrandir, thank you again and again.)
planet Earth! Perk up.
manshu might have a transmission from Mars.
I'm on satellite full moon, myslf.
10:40 AM
The connection of Mars to Earth is getting weak day by day. Might completely be gone anytime soon.
howz earth doing?
Nooooooooooooooooooo! (I actually don't know if my internet connection will be cut off at any moment either. Yikies.)
Earth is dizzying.
I'm spinning.
Earth should sleep at night and be awaken at day.
Living my life in the waveform.
sinsoidal that is.
Yes, harmonizing with the overtones.
(And the understated.)
Happy friendship day.
(Sounds like school is back on and you're studying system theory.)
10:44 AM
School doesn't like me being social.
So school try to give as much work as it can to keep me busy. Some time I get, I utilize it in being lazy.
Laziness is the best use of time that scientists have discovered,,, so far.
So, back in school, is what i'm asking....? Needless question, you already answered it.
(Still figuring out the difference between chat and personal conversation.)
(In conversation, repeating what is already understood is a kind of musical play-along. In chat, it just looks unnecessary.)
Hi guys, I decided to join the chat! You might see me here more often
Hey! Welcome!
o/ I'm writing a new Trail™ question at the moment and I'm a bit stuck
easy audience here
... but, to continue, manshu, "school" to me means everything up through post-doctorate (the pinnacle), by the way. Signed -- editor to emerita
10:55 AM
I know that
but whenever I say school instead of college in a conversation, I find it awkward
Where I'm from, "school", "college", and "university" are seen as seperate.
that's why i wanted to clarify
I see
10:57 AM
humn have his own world where every place we go to learn something is called school.
Right. The first letters that type out of these fingers are just something to reflect on how others might see them. Then to edit is a race against time.
Jul 10 at 19:54, by Rubio
New chat thingie: humorously undecipherable musing narrative. we can call it HUMN.
humn wins the race, always.
Is Humn even human, or just a conversation robot? We may never know.
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