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9:17 AM
@isaacg I want to answer, but are non-Python answers allowed?
@Adám well it's a tips question, not a direct challenge
@Mayube Right. But effectively, it is a language specific code-golf. Wonder if we should edit the question and answers to make it a proper language agnostic code-golf.
Only mods can migrate posts, right?
How can I portably call nodejs? The executable is named "node" on Windows, but "nodejs" on linux...
@mınxomaτ uhm.. it's called node on linux for me?
9:40 AM
How golfy would you consider this function for calculating sum of n-natural numbers? a=0:0!a¬$a+ (P.S. a feature from my eso-lang in progress, I just added)
@Adám Learning to program was very costly matter for me as I had to use a lot of $$$. (yes, PHP)
@flawr booo
@trichoplax Ok yes, I see your point, thanks for elaborating. I do however still think that putting a bounty on that is not gonna solve it any bit faster. I think it just makes people write down suggestions that have been discussed, without reading anything of the discussions and decisions that lead up to that point.
@flawr HN recently had to shell out lots of Euros. (yes, Jelly)
@ASCII-only With a tiny change which makes it completely different and much more challenging.
make EU based versions of programming languages were $ is replaced with €. E.g. PHPEU, or HaskEUll
and obviously an UK version with £
9:59 AM
@flawr APL doesn't use any currency symbols,. We are considering adding ¤ but that is already universal.
RProgN2 has the major ones, but only uses $ so far.
@Adám Is that a currency symbol?
oh it's a placeholder for other currency symbols
haha, apparently sometimes called sputnik :D
It's referred to as the universal currency symbol, so ¤ is correct when you just want to imply "x" currency. Like, ¤13.20
you mean 13.20¤ :)
Not with currency.
10:03 AM
$20 not 20$
(you know, how normal people write it:)
@Mayube depends on the language
uuh, most western currencies are prepended
$20, £20, €20
10:04 AM
in fact not even western
I'm Southern.
@Mayube perhaps the english speaking ones
> English speaking ones
> Yen
Currency is stupid, being consistent across nationalities hurts.
Curiously, Canadian dollar is written on the left in English and on the right in French.
10:06 AM
Australian dollars use a different symbol to CAD and USD, but no-one cares.
We use prepended as well as in Rs.100
In german you also write 10$ instead of $10
TIL Australia uses dollars
Cape Verde uses infix dollar sign: 20$00
@Adám lool
10:08 AM
RProgN uses the Prefix Dollar sign, even though everything about it is a post-fix language, because it hates fun.
Does anyone use omnifix notation $20$00$?
Those that want to kill pop-cons hate fun.
@Mayube nope, it is 20€ usually
2+2*3 in omnifix, *+2+2+*3*
God that hurts to understand.
@flawr I think I've seen $12¢34 or maybe it was 12$34¢.
10:10 AM
12 imaginary internet points for anyone who makes a basic omnifix calculator with +, -, *, / and integers.
Hm didn't we actually have such a challenge??
Oh god, I messed up the order of operations for that omnifix, it should be +2+*3*2*+
The outer symbols work just like parens, no?
Kind of, yeah.
@ATaco My reckless programming led to a situation such that 4 5+ 4+5 +4 5 all evaluate to 9. What fix is this?? :D
10:12 AM
Other than that i suppose it's just infix.
@flawr I don't see one.
@officialaimm anyfix
Omnifix calculator.
Loops forever on invalid input.
I've got a maths question that I made (in case anyone wants to try it): hastebin.com/raw/mujoquluti
Omnifix is actually really forgiving all things considered.
10:24 AM
How would an expression involving three-argument function look like in omnifix?
Meaning one operator for 3 arguments
@officialaimm ?a?b?c?
Q: Number of Managers

sdfgeoffIn a company, each manager can manage up to x workers. If the company has y workers total, calculate how many managers are required. Function should take two inputs. Eg non-golfed definition: calc_num_managers(num_workers, num_workers_per_manager) Examples: If the company has 4 workers, and...

@Adám looks like a ternary in C in the first glance. :D
@Downgoat :O that look like us building
looks like ceil(x/y) or similar
10:36 AM
@officialaimm >_> how <_<
@ATaco Proposed improvement for ChatJax - maybe make the user create a header comment thing that specifies that they are using $ for MathJax purposes?
Maybe something like <use mathjax> at the start of a post
Or something similar IDK
@Qwerp-Derp so for every chatjax post everyone without the userscript will see <use mathjax>?
I only realised after that it doesn't work
Maybe change the $ to something like /$?
Just to make sure that it's harder for it to get used accidentally
@ASCII-only My eye told it was a?b:c somehow... I don't know why, though!
There's no reason why the pre, in and post symbols for omnifix need to be identical.
10:44 AM
@feersum Well the way it's implemented they are
Don't know what you're talking about.
Is there a room where I can get tips for building an eso-lang?
@officialaimm Yes.
Oh, I found one called Language Development..
@feersum The interpreter Adám provides requires them to be identical
10:47 AM
I think any one of the three symbols for an omnifix binary operator could be the empty string without creating parsing ambiguity.
@ASCII-only So what?
@officialaimm this one

 Esoteric Programming Languages

A room for discussing, creating, using, golfing and discoverin...
@ASCII-only @wizzwizz4 Thanks
@officialaimm Nofix :P
10:50 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AdámCreate an omnifix calculator Inspiration. Evaluate a given omnifix expression. Omnifix is like normal mathematics' infix notation, but with additional copies of each symbol on the outsides of its arguments. In essence, these takes the place of parentheses, and there is therefore no need for ad...

Hey anybody lose any rep from a user deletion
@ASCII-only My interpreter was not universal. I've since made a better one. Is my sandbox post good?
@Adám Looks fine, just I'd change "the reasonable range" to "a reasonable range"
@flawr I can't guess either way, but I posted it on the off chance that someone might come up with something. I know it's a long shot...
11:00 AM
@totallyhuman Not here
@Adám What have you gone with for APLPy and PynAPL?
@TheLethalCoder We have not decided yet. We are letting the community submit suggestions (and nonbindingly vote). However, APLPy is an Astronomical PLotting Library for Python.
@Adám Shame that.
@Adám APLLPy? :P
@ASCII-only Ugh.
One of my colleagues suggested APyL (aye pie ell).
11:07 AM
A pile?
I think I just did Charcoal-ception
I just fed ASCII-art into Charcoal and got out right-padded ASCII-art to put into Charcoal
Last call for
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

AdámCreate an omnifix calculator Inspiration. Evaluate a given omnifix expression. Omnifix is like normal mathematics' infix notation, but with additional copies of each symbol surrounding the arguments. The outer symbols take the place of parentheses, and there is therefore no need for additional...

It's been in there less than 30 mins, surely you should leave it a bit longer?
@TheLethalCoder Nah, I'm pretty sure about this one. Normally I post obvious challenges straight to main. I only sandboxed this because of the discussion here.
11:22 AM
I agree, I can't find anything wrong with it. Though I prefer code blocks to the inline code but that doesn't mean someone won't find something with it.
Does charcoal have a mascot? idk why, but the word "Charcoleon" just popped into my mind.
@Titus I don't think so
@Titus no (good idea though :P) you may have been thinking of Charmeleon?
Q: Create an omnifix calculator

AdámInspiration. Evaluate a given omnifix expression. Omnifix is like normal mathematics' infix notation, but with additional copies of each symbol surrounding the arguments. The outer symbols take the place of parentheses, and there is therefore no need for additional parentheses. You must suppor...

@Titus or charcoalman warning: spookiness ahead
11:27 AM
@Adám That was a fast sandbox
@NewMainPosts I'm really sure we had something similar with "omnifix" expressions before (probably not exactly a calculator) with pre-&in-&suffix combined. I just made omnifix up obviously, i think it had another name.
I just cannot find it.
Q: Convert an Expression to Panfix Notation

MaltysenI was browsing esolangs, and chanced upon this language: https://github.com/catseye/Quylthulg. One interesting thing about this language, is that it doesn't use prefix, postfix, or infix, it uses all three of them, calling it "panfix" notation. Here is an example. To represent normal infix 1+2 ...

Ah that is it! Thank you very much!
@Adám Apparently it was called panfix in another challenge ^^
i'm gonna do it
i'm gonna install a markdown linter
11:39 AM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Felipe Nardi BatistaGate Keeper code-golf time I was assigned a task to stay by a gate and count how many people enter it. The problem is that my memory is not as good as it was when I first started this job. I need some kind of program to help me count how many people enter the gate until my shift is over. Task ...

@ASCII-only But I have to admit I like omnifix better :)
or fix-om-fix-ni-fix
@ASCII-only Luckily, mine is not a dup, but rather the inverse.
@Adám but you could link it anyway because of the similarity:)
@flawr Consider it done.
How should we treat this one:
Q: Is it possible to print rhombus numbers series using single for loop?

pluto20010I am talking about this seres 1 121 12321 1234321.... Is it possible to do it using single for loop? If yes, please tell.

11:41 AM
that way people could compose the answers and actually calculate stuff :D
It is off-topic, but may be interpreted by some as a + question. However, the language is not specified and nor is it tagged properly
@NewMainPosts noo where has your sentience gone
@flawr Actually, a reasonable notation would be replacing the outer symbols with spaces: _4÷_3-_1÷2___
Wait I just realized we still don't have our design
... damnit I just delayed it by another 6-8 weeks didn't I
11:51 AM
I have an idea for solving the omnifix one in Python
@Adám We are guaranteed that the given expression is a valid omnifix expression, right?
Of course, a given omnifix expression implies that it is an omnifix expression, no?
@Adám Oh, I missed that part. Thanks
I am working on a stack-based solution.... I am pretty sure it won't be elegant or golfed enough.
@officialaimm Wouldn't regex be more efficient
@Mr.Xcoder I think so as well...
12:06 PM
@Mr.Xcoder I have a 40+1 bytes solution in QuadR.
what should listify do on floats
@totallyhuman a single float?
@totallyhuman What does it do on ints?
12:08 PM
for integers, it returns a list of digits
my question is, how do i deal with the decimal digits
@totallyhuman Split into int and frac parts.
@totallyhuman What does it do on lists?
@Adám nothing
@Adám 31.41 -> [[3, 1], [4, 1]]?
@totallyhuman Yeah, I guess.
hmm ok
@totallyhuman What does it do on negative ints?
12:12 PM
Am I the only one to notice 'hello-world' option for all languages on TIO, this late?
in talk.tryitonline.net, 5 hours ago, by Adám
@Dennis +1 You added Hello World!
@Adám probably not that late then.. :D
in talk.tryitonline.net, 9 hours ago, by Dennis
There's now a way to load Hello World examples from the frontend. Please voice any suggestions and report any issues.
@Adám oh hrm
i didn't think of it yet
but my code would error out on negatives
don't want that
ok so dennis added hello world to tio
12:16 PM
what should it do on negative ints :P
now quick find a language that's not been used in the hello world challenge and answer with it :P
@Dennis btw python 2 hello world shouldn't be print("Hello, World!") that's unnecessary parenthesizing the string
@totallyhuman yeah you hope...most probably language makers first answer hello world and then ping dennis to add to tio...also dennis might not be the best golfer of every language...wait I'm contradicting common assumption or something? :p
@EriktheOutgolfer The Hello, World!s are not golfed.
@Adám hmm...maybe purposefully so that you golf those
but still you shouldn't use print(...) in python 2
at least put a space delimiter
@totallyhuman Maybe listify should convert to a list of characters?
@totallyhuman Do you have an eval?
eval of what?
12:24 PM
@totallyhuman a string of code.
not yet no
@totallyhuman If you will, then listify of a number could be list of chars, and eval of a list of chars could be eval on each (digit), while skipping the invalid chars, or using them to group the digits.
-123.45 → list → ["-","1","2","3",".","4","5"] → eval → [[],[1,2,3],[4,5]]
@totallyhuman In APL, stringifies a number, and ⍎¨ executes each char. So, ⍎¨⍕ only works on positive ints.
12:40 PM
Hey all, I heavily modified this, you can edit it more, I think it's OK to be reopened though (unless it's a dupe)
Q: Is it possible to print rhombus numbers series using single for loop?

pluto20010The following is the rhombus sequence. 1 121 12321 1234321 123454321 12345654321 1234567654321 123456787654321 12345678987654321 Your task is to output this, taking no input and using standard output methods (STDOUT, list of numbers or list of strings, etc.). However, since this is restricted...

@StepHen My personal opinion would have been for you to have posted a new challenge and not edited the OP's off topic one seeing as you basically wrote it from scratch anyway. Though I'm not sure on the consensus here.
I agree with TLC
It's basically the same thing though (at least I think so) - print the series without nested loops
just it's on topic now
I like the edited challenge, though I don't know if it is a dupe or not, I just think you should have posted it not edited.
@TheLethalCoder I can rollback and post it myself, though I feel bad doing that
12:45 PM
@StepHen No I think it is good that you edited. Less deleted cruft, and no "stealing".
@StepHen The title needs fixing. The answer is "Yes".
@Adám fixed
it's still a do x without y
might not be received well
@StepHen Non-standard languages‽ Does automatic mapping and folding count as a loop?
@StepHen Is a series generator a loop?
@totallyhuman I tried to make it on-topic while keeping the original intent, not saying it's still a good challenge
@Adám ok so i'm gonna skip the eval part and listify directly puts it it in that state
because you could just stringify and then listify
12:48 PM
I personally think we should let that challenge die. If you want to re-create it yourself do so. But it might be worth posting it to the sandbox first to iron out some quirks like what TH said
@totallyhuman Do you differentiate between ints and floats or do you auto-convert?
@TheLethalCoder fine by me
@Adám convert when needed for a command
but there's a difference
@totallyhuman Then ints should give a nested list: 123[[1,2,3]]
0.123[[0],[1,2,3]] not [[],[1,2,3]].
I think it is unambiguous then. Actually, a nice challenge.
CMC (or main?) : Given a real number, convert it to a list of lists, with the negative sign (if any) becoming an empty list, the integer part becoming a list of digits, and the fractional part (if any) becoming a list of digits.
Q: How long can a challenge specification be?

Nathan ShirainiRecently I had the idea to create a KotH challenge based on a card game (played with regular 52 cards). I then began drafting the rules of the game and the interface method. The thing is, I was taken aback by how lengthy the specification of the challenge is. The Markdown file that contains my d...

1:04 PM
@Adám So 123.456 -> [[1,2,3],[4,5,6]] and -123.456 -> [[],[1,2,3],[4,5,6]]?
@TheLethalCoder Exactly.
@Adám I like it as a main challenge it's more complicated than it first seems because of the - requirement. What happens for 1? [[1]] or [[1],[]]?
@TheLethalCoder [[1]]
@Adám Actually, 23 bytes: '.@;)A$s⌠♂≈⌡M[[]]+@s~@t
Wait I'm not sure if ints are processed correctly...
1:16 PM
Oh good they are
>>> import commands
[[], [1, 2, 3]]
>>> commands.listify(123)
[[1, 2, 3]]
>>> commands.listify(123.45)
[[1, 2, 3], [4, 5]]
>>> commands.listify(-123.45)
[[], [1, 2, 3], [4, 5]]
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

milesDisappearing Elements Given a string S and a list of indices X, modify S by removing the element at each index of S while using that result as the new value of S. For example, given S = 'codegolf' and X = [1, 4, 4, 0, 2], 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 | c o d e g o l f | Remove 1 c d e g o l f | Remo...

that's about right, right?
@Adám C#, 60 bytes: using System.Linq;s=>s.Split('-','.').Select(p=>p.ToArray())
67 in Python 3, but I'm sure I'm missing obvious optimizations: lambda a:[[],*[[*map(int,x)]for x in str(abs(a)).split('.')]][a>0:]
1:25 PM
I hope it can be optimised, no way C# should beat Python especially considering the lengthy using.
mm python doesn't have a nice int.to_array
Can anyone tell me why Jelly and Pyth treat 1111111111 squared as 1234567900... instead of 12345678987654321?
I'm using string.ToArray() and that's from Linq it's normally string.ToCharArray()
@Mr.Xcoder Because it has 10 1s not 9
@BusinessCat I noticed in the meanwhile
Python would beat C# if it had a fluent interface for maps and a shorter lambda syntax :/
this would be a very nice main challenge i think
Yeah, C# would be better if Linq was available by default.
I'd like it on main too.
Q: How does the square end?

LordFarquaadIn Base-10, all perfect squares end in 0, 1, 4, 5, 6, or 9. In Base-16, all perfect squares end in 0, 1, 4, or 9. Nilknarf describes why this is and how to work this out very well in this answer, but I'll also give a brief description here: When squaring a Base-10 number, N, the "ones" digit ...

@NewMainPosts all of these plain math formulae challenges are boring me :/
1:40 PM
@totallyhuman Yeah that one is effectively what language can loop and do maths the shortest.
1:50 PM
@totallyhuman Don't blame NMP. It's not like it had a choice whether to post that here or not.
@Adám Will you be posting that CMC to main?
@TheLethalCoder ok.
Q: Listify a number

AdámGiven a real number, convert it to a list of lists, with the negative sign (if any) becoming an empty list, the integer part becoming a list of digits, and the fractional part (if any) becoming a list of digits. Examples 0 → [[0]] 123 → [[1,2,3]] -123 → [[],[1,2,3]] 123.45 → [[1,2,3],[4,5]] ...

@Mego ^
@totallyhuman ^^
@TheLethalCoder Should we have the reverse too?
Listified to number?
@TheLethalCoder never understood why language syntax would need to be pretty much imported for it to work
@TheLethalCoder pls tio
2:06 PM
@ASCII-only Because Microsoft looked at the DLL Hell problem and decided that the best solution was to make more DLLs
Q: Listify a number

AdámGiven a real number, convert it to a list of lists, with the negative sign (if any) becoming an empty list, the integer part becoming a list of digits, and the fractional part (if any) becoming a list of digits. The digits must be actual numbers, not strings. Examples 0 → [[0]] 123 → [[1,2,3]]...

@TheLethalCoder Well, what's wrong with seeing what languages can do stuff the shortest in ?
@totallyhuman Why didn't you use my set suggestion?
@TheLethalCoder wait is a non top level using even valid
@StepHen Because the same thing with different formulae has been asked a lot
@ASCII-only TIO is on the main challenge, the using is top level just added there for clarity that I'm including it in the byte count. And I like the fact you have to import some things but Linq is so useful almost every class ends up adding using System.Linq; to the top of it.
2:20 PM
i've been wondering, is there a better time of day to post new challenges for it to get more visibility?
@FelipeNardiBatista in my experience, not on weekends
I don't think there's a better time of day, different people are just on at different times.
Plus there aren't that many new challenges that yours would get lost by the next day
@FelipeNardiBatista Towards evening UTC.
@Mr.Xcoder I'm waiting for confirmation
thanks for the feedback
2:41 PM
@totallyhuman So the Intrnt solution to the listify challenge is just listify, right?
Would be l
But no interpreter :c
@totallyhuman Feel free to add an intro to my challenge speaking about Intrnt's l command.
@Mego python just beat c#: lambda a:[[]]*(a<0)+[map(int,n)for n inabs(a).split('.')] :D
Mm I'd rather leave a comment if anything
Funny how I still only have 4 internet commands ><
Then again the string manipulation is mostly for this
@totallyhuman You could have a command for fetching code off of SE (and maybe even executing it)
2:53 PM
@FelipeNardiBatista Damn you!
@EriktheOutgolfer beat my solution
I thought the algorithm was kinda different and posted separately from mego's
@totallyhuman what this is bad you shouldn't add features just for a single challenge

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