@Rickross is there any connection/relation between Tantra/Agama & Purana?

@Pandya NO, apparently no connection. Puranas have authors. Agamas don't have any. Puranas are Bhakti pradhan. Agamas are knowledge and ritual pradhan. Also Tantras are considered as the very essence of Vedas.

@Tezz I used to have it earlier. Can't find it now. Anyways i will search it for u. But if u want it in Sanskrit (without translation) then i know its available.

@RakeshJoshi If u genuinely are ..then should u stop nurturing hatred for some particular persons and see them as being one with the persons u love and respect..but that seemingly isn't the case..

@Rickross Oh ok.. I found it in Sanskrit.... inform me when you find it in English too..

@Rickross be clear what u want to say

@RakeshJoshi You have said that u are going beyond dualities. But that does not seem to be the case. You still hate many persons while u respect and love others. This proves that u are still living very much in duality. A person who has reached that state does not discriminate.

@Rickross condemning wrong thing is not hatred

@RakeshJoshi Contempt-praise, hate-love these dualities don't exist once u reach that stage.

BTW, @RakeshJoshi Do u do achamana in this posture?

no i dont

@RakeshJoshi Today i tried :D

i mean i did.

ur vivekananda revolted against british

Ok..

somewhere i saw verses about inner guru .

dont remember here

where

@RakeshJoshi Ok but all scriptures emphasize on the need of a physical Guru.. So no need of misleading a newbie..

only god can tell who is misleading whom

by supporting unequal caste gender etc .

@RakeshJoshi If some people are getting oppressed due to gender and caste and etc then we have to understand that is part of the karma plan..everyone is getting the results of their previous karmas. The persons who are oppressing now will again get the due results in sometime in the future.

this misleading is also god wish then .

if RK mutt monks are attacked u shd not feel bad

another new Q...

by Rohit

@RakeshJoshi Yes everything is God's wish.

this "god wish" mentality has made hindus impotent

cos of this invaders became successful ..

then same thing happened in nepal also .. kashmir .. now bengal.

@RakeshJoshi Why only certain places? Why not whole India?

God wish didn't make anyone impotent. Vijayanagara, Marata and many glorious empires revolted in past. Now BJP is rising to new heights. If this mentality is popular, there would be no such BJP or Hindutva party.

Something bad must happen to know good. Dualities always change with time. At one time, one of dualities will be dominant and at other time other duality will be dominant. Atfer all, time is cyclic.

@RakeshJoshi Birth land of Adi Shankaracharya is now controlled by commies. Glorious Bengal which was land to many Hindu saints and reformers is now seeing otherside of coin. Kashmir which was once land of Tantra and Agamas now facing Islamic terrorism. Pataliputra (Patna) who was knoweldge hub and glorious now facing problems with corruption. Time is cyclic. When one of dualities go to peek stage, other duality sprouts from it.

you are nt even reading the messages

i m not saying that its god wish

@RakeshJoshi I'm saying this mentality is not popular.

only cos of this mentality there was no unity and no whole hearted efforts

now and then individuals rose against invaders but not collective

@RakeshJoshi Not because of mentality. But due to other problems such as caste sytem.

all are intelinked

when u mentally accept that "kali yuga will be worse ... shudras will dominate .. brahmins will fall down"

@RakeshJoshi Unity can only be achieved if other religions are present. Hindus were never united. There was always Sastra Charcha and one philosophy tried to dominate other.

mleechas will rule hindus

then it will slowly hamper the progress

@RakeshJoshi Obviously this is correct, if you apply Guna alone.

no one is dominant .. all r equal .. whoever applies himself and unleases his potentil will rise

did not yadavas rise in dwapara?

cowherds r shudras

@RakeshJoshi Adi Shankara tried to unite but when i say this you accuse him. With these condemnations, how can you expect unity?

@RakeshJoshi Cowherds are Vaishayas. Who said Sudras?

@RakeshJoshi Mlechas (Mlecha mindset of Indians) are ruling.

@TheDestroyer he did not unite but only created more differences by criticizing non vedantinc sects which was not necessary

and further added fuel to caste issue

@RakeshJoshi No. At that time Hinduism had many problems. Among hindus, Vaishnavas , Shaiva and Shaktas were warring. Nastika Religions were dominating. Purva mimamsa, which was popular, was not able to prove God exists with logic. At least after him, some of them got cooled. But still sectarian problem were very common in South India till 13th century.

is it needed to differentiate caste to unite hindus?

i will quote from his texts itself

but then you will run away by saying it interpolation

@RakeshJoshi Varna is needed. You can't expect everyone to be same. How can world run with same kind of people everywhere?

means

u deny god realization and spirituality to certain group? its sin

anyone who does such is a sinner

@RakeshJoshi You need teachers or Gurus, Kings to rule you, Business people and those who do trivial work.

@RakeshJoshi Not that. I'm saying divisions are inherent. No one creates divisions. God himself created divisions. But humans made those divisions worse.

@RakeshJoshi Some traits are passed through hereditary. Like how Sikh people are fit for Army, like how ancient kings through many generations showed their Khatriya traits.

@RakeshJoshi This is where corruption happened.

@RakeshJoshi I have always been fantasized by thinking this type of activity :-)

@RakeshJoshi We can't neglect completely birth based but at same time we shouldn't pour molten lead into ears of Sudra if he hears Veda.

i m saying even if one is shudra by birth etc still he has right to practice spiorituality and evolve himself.

@RakeshJoshi Where did i talk about Spitituality. I was just saying Gunas are heriditary in most cases.

@RakeshJoshi Yes. There are Samskaras for that.

One can even change Gunas. A Brahmana can become Kshatriya. Parasurama did and Kalki will do.

for vedamta there is no need of any samskara.. cos they even remove the previous samskara like thread etc

@TriyugiNarayanMani what u think of these

@RakeshJoshi Problem is with Smritis or our interpretation of those verses. But these discimination on caste had gone out of control in 18th and 19th centuries.

@RakeshJoshi I think they are people from other Lokas. But no so sure.

if more evolved beings from other planets can communicate with earth then there is a possibility of higher transformation ..

@RakeshJoshi See Varna verses in BS. BS didnt explicitly say it depends on birth only. Only commentary of Shankara says that. But if you read previous commentaries, it would be shocking to you as he cites Smritis for that. Something fishy.

You are saying Vedanta is only responsible for caste problems.

i will cite other books also but u will say interpolation as you said BS bhashya is interpolation so it literally becomes "bull shit" to talk of it if its interpolated

It's complex issue which became worse. Even Chadragupta Maurya faced caste issues as per one account. Adi Shankara didn't even take birth at that time.

@RakeshJoshi Caste issue was dominant even during pre Shankara times./

i said he fuled it .. not started it

as a jagad guru he should do soemthing against it but u will not understand .. unless u accept those things were written by him and not some foreign person who came to his mutts and changes his book while his disciples were sleeping

@RakeshJoshi Read yourself and tell me. See the change of tone in those interpretations. Why would he suddenly become so castiest and say to pour molten lead into ears of Sudra, that too after episode of Chandala in Kasi.

u keep on talking of only one book i have read in multiple books .. that is the main prblem

if chandala hurt him then why he appoint only male brahmins as his pontiffs why no non brahmins initiated by him ever?

@RakeshJoshi I will comment on it later.

@RakeshJoshi Why did Adishankara accept Chandala as Brahmin (as Chandala has Brahma Vidya) in Shankara Digvjaya?

it does not reflect in his life and books ... that chandala stuff

congress speak of anti poverty campaings but it dont reflect in their rule .. speaking and doing are different things

@RakeshJoshi Why? What do mutt people say on this? Ask them if you visit next time any Advaita mutt.

mutt people only publishing books na .? then whats there to ask

Visit Kanchi mutt and ask Jayendra Saraswati.

@RakeshJoshi Those mutts are not doing anything now. At least Sringeri was responsible for establishing Viayanagara empire in past.

@RakeshJoshi You can't cheat Chandala here. Chandala is Shiva.'

i can only quote from his life incidents and books ..

@RakeshJoshi Which books? Shankara Digvijaya?

other commentaries and granthas of his

@RakeshJoshi Be specific. There are many things (only Gods knows how many of them are real) attributed to Adi Shankara.

dont worry i will say only from those things which are accepted by mutts :)

@Rickross oh! Yes, ok

ibiblio.org/sripedia/kbhtml/Agamas.html

@RakeshJoshi @Rickross @RohitSinghRathore @Tezz Which view is correct?

B might be ...

veda was one then divided into four

@RakeshJoshi what four?

rik yaju sama etc

They are mantras right?

ohh 3 types of mantras and?

You mean Samhita only?

knowledge is one .. u can classify it thoyugh

veda then classified into upa vedas and 3-4 categories etc

however vedics believe that vedas are more authority and tantrics believe agama more authority

buddhism and jaiism also support agama

ok.

@TheDestroyer Option b is correct. But that does not mean both are the same.

@Pandya