00:00 - 18:0018:00 - 23:00

12:17 AM
@DavidCarlisle Does that help?
@DavidCarlisle Mine looks rather like that right now because I was, of course, certain that something was adding the space ....

12:48 AM
For those who can see deleted answers: wondering why this was deleted? tex.stackexchange.com/questions/226999/… (IMO we can close the question as offtopic because it's asking about installing fonts, but the deleted answer precisely did answer the question asked.)

1:10 AM
@cfr thanks, it works great!

@egreg Spaghetti alla carbonara with cream?! But who on earth…
3

1:31 AM
@ShreevatsaR I don't think the question is off-topic and I don't see any reason it should be closed unless it is a duplicate. The answer is not very good, although I'm not sure it deserved to be deleted. It should really be a comment. The question clearly thinks this is a TeX question and a good answer, IMNSHO, would explain the difference between the ways different engines use fonts and what that means for finding, managing and installing them. (Or at least point in the right directions.)

@cfr Yes I agree with you. :-) (Only noticed this one because it showed up as "Related question" when I was looking at something else.)

2 hours later…
3:42 AM
@GustavoMezzetti The Americans, of course! And they dare call it Italian food hahaha

1 hour later…
5:01 AM
! Undefined control sequence.
\dpthimport ->\ExplSyntaxOn \tl
_gclear_new:c {g_hobby_achos2_path}\tl _gput...
l.635 ...641771023086}}\ExplSyntaxOff }\dpthimport
^^M
?
! Missing $inserted. <inserted text>$

2 hours later…
7:03 AM
@cfr you are too late, the argument has already been read and the catcode is frozen.

7:25 AM
in other words (just guessing): you can't do something like
\newcommand{\dpthimport}{\ExplSyntaxOn \tl_gclear_new:c ...}
though you can do
\ExplSyntaxOn \newcommand{\dpthimport}{\tl_gclear_new:c ...}

7:42 AM
@cfr it helped me, but Symbol was a bit quicker:-)

0

How can I insert name in every page of on the top right document \documentclass[11pt,a4paper,oldfontcommands]{memoir} ? I have tried this: \usepackage{scrpage2} \pagestyle{scrheadings} \ohead{my name} but this is not working.

Any suggestions?

@ShreevatsaR It was deleted for "does not answer the question" by 5 people. Do you want me to vote to undelete?

@DavidCarlisle No I think it's fine to leave it as it is (it's not such a great answer anyway and just duplicates what is already in the comments); I was just curious why multiple thought it "does not answer the question". I guess... those words are just a proxy for "this is a bad answer". Or maybe it looked like an ad of some sort.

@ShreevatsaR well I've already voted undelete anyway, might make some people think twice about voting answers delete just because "community" flags it as possibly low quality:-)
@cfr \ExplSyntaxOn is like \makeatletter or \verb and ca't be used in the argument of a command

@DavidCarlisle guess there may be a "bandwagon" or "confirmation bias" effect: once someone else has voted one way, we tend to agree and go along :-)

8:49 AM
I get the feeling I'm not programming with TeX the right way… is there a right way?

@Moriambar Just \relax ;-)
2

@ChristianHupfer -.- :P
the error messages are sooo useful :)

@Moriambar Blame Leslie Lamport and other guys ;-)

@ChristianHupfer the l3 guys you mean? :)

@Moriambar TeX's a macro expansion language: the errors available are different from those of procedural approaches

8:56 AM
@Moriambar Oh, you meant L3 ... yes some other guys , but I will give no names here @JosephWright @DavidCarlisle ;-)

@JosephWright yup. TeX programming is not for me. I'm not able to be efficient, either there's something I do wrong, or perhaps I simply cannot look at it from the correct perspective
as long as I finish this part of the package, I'd better stick with being the "end-user"

@Moriambar There's a reason the LaTeX team have created expl3 ;) Also if you are willing to go LuaTeX-onlythen you can use Lua of course

@JosephWright well I use only expl3 but the message fail me anyway. Expl3 is fantastic but still I find myself not efficient, I think I'm losing much much time. I think I will try and go full lua.

@Moriambar So you want to be another victim of Lua? :-(

@ChristianHupfer I'm currently a victim of improper alphabetic constant

9:06 AM
@Moriambar I was not victim of that yet

0

i.e. the moderncv-package has several sty-files (i.e. moderncvbodyi.sty). Apparently, I can not call \usepackage{moderncvbodyi} from another document than a moderncv-document. This means, that the visibility of moderncvbodyi is limited to moderncv.cls. The basic question is: What defines the acc...

The claims in the comments are confusing. But the question seems clear enough to answer. Any takers?

I am really quite hungry and have NOTHING in my pantry :(
And its Sunday here

@ChristianHupfer lucky man! Anyway I've been using LuaLaTeX only for quite a bit.

@Moriambar so you have \zzz instead of a
@kan @PauloCereda recommends duck

@DavidCarlisle it was a bit more complex than that. The real problem was that the error was far away from where I was looking

9:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle Fan, especially when BBQ-ed.

@Moriambar well no that is exactly the error although of course there could be an error earlier which is why tex got to that state.

@DavidCarlisle thanks anyway
@DavidCarlisle yes an expl3 function with nnnn signature was called only with three parameters

@Moriambar TeX errors seem a lot more reasonable if you think about them from TeX's perspective not from yours:-)
5

@DavidCarlisle well of course. That's what I meant when I said that I'm being inefficient and probably that I'm not looking the things from the right angle
@DavidCarlisle also I find it difficult to understand the TeX perspective, especially through expl3

@Moriambar rather than wonder why tex gives an error about badly formed numeric literals because you omitted one argument to a function, think of it as tex helpfully telling you that you have constructed a badly formed numeric literal then work back from there and (hopefully) realize that an argument was missing and (presumably) some quote was picked up and used in the wrong context.

9:23 AM
@JosephWright Creating macro for double-Sig rune (SS)? What to do with that one?

@DavidCarlisle well the problem is that all arguments were numbers and the first thing I thought was that the function itself was doing something wrong, then I worked back and forth on local and global evaluations of fp_eval:n{round(\l_tmp_fp,3)} thinking that it was the "round" part that couldn't be passed as an argument. Then, by chance, via strategic comments I found out that in one case it was trying to parse \bottomrule.
I thought that nnnn meant that there was some kind of brace control for parameters

@Moriambar Yup: there are four of them

@JosephWright yes but I was calling \zzz:nnnn{1}{2}{3} and the error was not about the missing parameter but about something else

@Johannes_B OT? Really about creating a font, no?
@Moriambar Well yes that would be an issue

@JosephWright One could do this with TikZ. But i don't like the symbol. It was banned here a while ago :-)

9:28 AM
@JosephWright What I meant was I thought ->improper alphabetic constantyou jackass missed to call the function with all the parameters. I could've expected the "improper…" if it was an N parameter.
But of course it's not that way :)
@Johannes_B it's also used in KISS (the rock'n'roll band) logo

@Moriambar But of course you didn't: TeX simply looks for 'balanced text'

@Moriambar True that :-)

@JosephWright yes, as I said: TeX/expl programming is not for me.
I'll revert to the "end-user" status soon enough :)
@Johannes_B are they banned in Germany?

@Moriambar I don't think so.

@Johannes_B I know that Wolfenstein 3d was banned for having the nazi runes and whatnot (even if you were fighting them)

9:34 AM
@Johannes_B There's no need to write the SS runes, in my point of view

@Johannes_B Provided a CW answer. No image.

@Moriambar Of course they are banned, as is the Nazi cross.

@ChristianHupfer so KISS are banned?

@Moriambar I know that KISS uses them, but I am unsure whether they were allowed to show that logo on tour in Germany

@ChristianHupfer that's what I was asking, thanks ;)

9:36 AM
@egreg Thanks.

@Moriambar: There's even a ban on car number plates: There are no district abbreviations with SS or SA

@ChristianHupfer oh, ok

This is allowed ... The flag of the Front of German Apples, an organisation to spoof and mock nazi parties

0

I'm trying to convert a paper of mine to the LNCS computer science style outlined by springer. I'm struggling on how to do this, i must state i'm not really well versed in the subtleties of latex. So far i tried changing the documentclass from {article} to {llncs} all this did was stop showing my...

Takers?

@ChristianHupfer lol. But this means that red flags with white round centers and black symbols in them could be not allowed (even if they're not nazi)?

9:42 AM
@ChristianHupfer Never heard of them before.

@Moriambar They are allowed as long as there is no nazi symbol in it. You may fortunately not show any Nazi symbol in public, i.e. in the streets.
The Front Deutscher Äpfel (short F.D.Ä.; German for Front of German Apples), also called Apfelfront (Apple Front) is a satirical organisation, founded in Leipzig in 2004. It satirizes right extremist parties, especially the Nationaldemokratische Partei Deutschlands (NPD). In the style of former and existing right extremist organisational structures it is subdivided into numerous sub-groups like the youth organisation Nationales Frischobst Deutschland (NFD; National Fresh Fruit of Germany), the women's organisation Bund weicher Birnen (B.W.B.; League of Soft Pears, compare League of German Girls...

@Johannes_B I could make my comment an answer, not sure there is a lot else to be said in that generality, or close as unclear?
@egreg of course no cream, everyone knows it's best with yoghurt.

@DavidCarlisle Very sour, of course

@DavidCarlisle Too broad? There is no real answer but, as daleif said, rewrite.

@Johannes_B its a year old so OP probably doesn't want an answer anyway now, I voted too broad

9:55 AM
@DavidCarlisle Alright, thanks.

10:12 AM
Anybody up for closing References in bibtex don't work as duplicate?

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

@Johannes_B Yeah, voted for it.

@DavidCarlisle @egreg well I mix the eggs with some cream in my carbonara sauce, imho it makes it smoother and I like this. But I call it \__uf_spaghetti_carbonara_sauce: so I don't think it interferes with other modules ... and I would never dare to call it italian.
5

10:46 AM
@UlrikeFischer A couple of spoons of the cooking water do better

11:08 AM
@egreg a bit of boiling water gives an exquisite taste to everything ;-)

@UlrikeFischer :)

@UlrikeFischer I... don't understand French. :(
It's about olive oil and boiling water, I guess...
I have exact one week for my trip, I am so nervous!

@PauloCereda The left (british!) woman says, what I wrote below the picture: That she thinks, that adding boiling water gives an exquisite taste to everything ;-). The right (spanish) that she does all her cooking with olive oil.

@UlrikeFischer ooh

-2

Are u really sure this s*** is better than MSWord?

@JosephWright Something for you ^^?

11:21 AM
@TeXnician Removed

@JosephWright Oh it was you. I just wondered why my delete vote made it disappear ;-)

@UlrikeFischer A German who posts to an Italian a French comic about a Spanish and a British? This is superb!
5

@Moriambar -- in your edit to this question you moved the closing parenthesis too far to the right. the final period (definitely) belongs outside. (i'm not really sure the parenthesis should have been moved at all, but only the op can say that for sure.)

@barbarabeeton Right, I may have been careless, sorry, I'll revert to what it was before and ask about it to OP

11:40 AM
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer I think the XeTeX business should work with
\def\Gscale@start%
{%
\special{x:gsave}%
\special{pdf:btrans matrix \Gscale@x\space 0.0 0.0 \Gscale@y\space 0 0}%
}
\def\Gscale@end%
{%
\special{pdf:etrans}%
\special {x:gsave}%
}
which is a minimal change from what we have now: can you check?
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Assuming it is, I'll adjust xetex.def and the expl3 driver and send to CTAN

@JosephWright ah using btrans rather than literal pdf cm so the driver knows the coordinate change? Will test now...
@JosephWright and dvipdfmx.def as well I guess
@JosephWright seems to work with the tests I had yesterday, thanks

@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle Yes
@DavidCarlisle Cool: seems to be OK here and still avoids using the non-invertable matrix approach
@DavidCarlisle I'll commit later on

11:57 AM
@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle: I get the wrong output in the \infinitesquares question. Does it work for you with the new code?

@UlrikeFischer I was just thinking I should test that as well

:37231024 Ah no. Will have to add this.

@UlrikeFischer actually it's using resizebox testing now...
@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer's right that blows up the small scale example again :(

@JosephWright what are the changes for the expl3 drivers? I'm not quite sure how to translate them

@UlrikeFischer I was wrong (I mis-read my own answer) the scaling there is using xetex.def

12:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle But the l3xdvipdfmx-driver is read so for the tests it would be better if both are correct/doing the same thing.

@JosephWright @UlrikeFischer if you add \ifnum\dimexpr\Gscale@x pt\relax=0 \OOOPS\fi you find the scale factor is zero if you use tex arithmetic which is I guess what is happening here. It might be enough to use btrans normally but detect this case and use literal pdf for stupidly small scale factors ?

@DavidCarlisle Ah, that was what worried me, but I couldn't remember what the example is
@DavidCarlisle That can't be right: the change to using the PDF literal still uses \Gscale@x

@JosephWright yes but it passes the string 0.0000001 to pdf which uses higher precision arithmetic so it isn't zero there

@DavidCarlisle I'm confused!

@JosephWright \Gscale@x isn't 0 it just underflows if you use it as tex pt units using tex arithmetic
@JosephWright in the above Gscale@x ends up being 0.000006615914435153441
@JosephWright so if you pass that to pdf in a cm matrix it survives but if you do the arithmetic in tex (or a tex-like driver) starting out with \dimen0=0.000006615914435153441pt to hold the float then \dimen0 is 0pt and things go bad

12:25 PM
@DavidCarlisle So the (x)dvipdfmx driver is doing something odd with the value?

@JosephWright just using tex or single precision arithmetic instead of double. (but even with double you are only really avoiding an error the actual result must be all rounding error)

@DavidCarlisle I'd have to check, but I'd assume that the PDF-based specials use a double (seems logical)
@DavidCarlisle We seem to have something of an impasse: the hyperlink code can't know that there is a scaling, and so only the driver-native scaling code can get the position right, but that means we can't reliably use small scales

@JosephWright possibly allow that on input but clearly the driver is underflowing somewhere, even with double it will underflow in the end, I wonder if the graphics package ought to refuse to let the scale factor go less than (say) 0.00001 and just set it to that

@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer I guess on balance we have to take that: broken hyperlinks in all scaling cases are worse than broken scaling in edge cases
@DavidCarlisle Would be a reasonable position

@JosephWright yes but does anyone really need to scale a hyperlink by 0.000006? as i say we could drop to using cm for small scales or just refuse to allow the scale factor to be that small

12:31 PM
@DavidCarlisle We can at least document that with a reason: 'Not all drivers can reliably scale below <factor>'
@DavidCarlisle Both reasonable approaches: I guess I favour point-blank refusing on the grounds there may be other 'nasties' lurking in the drivers in this regard (basically say 'all values need to be 'TeX-like')

@JosephWright yes adds a bit of complication as you need to allow negative, and test x and y separately. But for 2e, do it in graphics rather than the driver?

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I think in graphics is best: we can then be consistent across engines (I wonder how dvips works in some of these edge cases, in addition to (x)dvipdfmx)
@DavidCarlisle I'll adjust the expl3 code shortly

@JosephWright probably gets out by luck, even if the matrix is not invertible (eg \scalebox{0}{zzz} it will work in some drivers if they use some kind of grouping to restore the coordinates at the end, if you try to scale the text and then restore by scaling by the inverse things are not so good.

1:08 PM
@DavidCarlisle So I'm looking for somewhere where \ExplSyntaxOn occurs inside the definition of a macro?

@cfr Yes

@JosephWright I have always been confused by dvipdf, dvipdfm, and dvipdfmx.

@JamesBond dvipdfmx is the only important one nowadays
@JamesBond Caveat: for actually writing driver code you need the manual for dvipdfm too :)

It appears that pgf has stopped expanding its features for now.

@cfr you posted a log showing that
@JosephWright xdvipdfmx

1:12 PM
Anyway, I think for the near future I won't need anything other than pdflatex. =)

@DavidCarlisle Yes, I know: I meant of the set dvipdf, dvipdfm, dvipdfmx

@cfr I don't know the context but you showed
\dpthimport ->\ExplSyntaxOn \tl
_gclear_new:c {g_hobby_achos2_path}\tl _gput...
l.635 ...641771023086}}\ExplSyntaxOff }\dpthimport

@DavidCarlisle I posted a log showing that to others. It didn't show that to me.
@DavidCarlisle So something like
\def \dpthimport {\ExplSyntaxOn \tl _gclear_new:c {g_hobby_achos2_path}\

@cfr which means that \dpthimport  has \ExplSyntaxOn in its definition
@cfr that won't do anything useful

@cfr The problem is similar to \def\foo{\makeatletter\@foo\makeatother}

1:14 PM
@egreg and my exact wording was:

@DavidCarlisle It is from the .aux. I can't get rid of it directly.

Instead of \makeatletter\def\foo{\@foo}\makeatother

So far I have not found a single spelling mistake on tug.org. I think people interested in typography care about spelling too. =)

5 hours ago, by David Carlisle
@cfr \ExplSyntaxOn is like \makeatletter or \verb and ca't be used in the argument of a command
@egreg ^^

@DavidCarlisle Well, not completely true. ;-)

1:15 PM
don't tell @JamesBond that I can't spell can't
@egreg shhh.

@egreg Carbonara is my favourite Italian food. But I don't know whether mine has cream in it or not. I can't even fry an egg!

@JamesBond Don't you know that @barbarabeeton is the best proofreader in the universe? Besides all her other uncountable qualities.

@cfr ? why can't you fix whatever is writing it to the aux file?

@DavidCarlisle @egreg So \dpthimport seems to be from PGF/TikZ? And I assume the macros with hobby are from the Hobby library.

@DavidCarlisle Oh, if misspelled, it can be very vulgar, so be careful. =)

1:16 PM
@DavidCarlisle Because I don't know what it is.

@JamesBond well I seem to have spelled it as cat

@DavidCarlisle That's not a problem. Even cant is also a safe word. =)

@cfr ah. In that case you just need to write \ExplSyntaxOn yourself, earlier in the file. (The one inside the definition doesn't do anything very useful but isn't actually harming anything)

@DavidCarlisle I am not sure how to do that because the tikz stuff won't like it. Hobby does this, which I'm guessing is somehow causing the problem:
\cs_new:Npn \hobby_save_path_to_aux:n #1 {
\bool_if:nT {
\tl_if_exist_p:c {g_hobby_#1_path}
&&
! \tl_if_exist_p:c {g_hobby_#1_path_saved}
&&
\l_hobby_save_aux_bool
}
{
\tl_clear:N \l_tmpa_tl
\tl_put_right:Nn \l_tmpa_tl {
\ExplSyntaxOn
\tl_gclear_new:c {g_hobby_#1_path}
\tl_gput_right:cn {g_hobby_#1_path}
}
\tl_put_right:Nx \l_tmpa_tl {
{\tl_to_str:c {g_hobby_#1_path}}
}
\tl_put_right:Nn \l_tmpa_tl {
\ExplSyntaxOff
}

I have been thinking of sending an email to the creator of Texmaker to ask him to consider to change it to TeXmaker, but I never got round to doing it.

1:22 PM
So Hobby is constructing a token list which includes \ExplSyntaxOn and \ExplSyntaxOff and then PGF's code is somehow wrapping that into a \def? Is that right?

@cfr Yes. looks like this. Hobby probably wants to write it directly.

@UlrikeFischer So I need to somehow something. I don't think I can just put \ExplSyntaxOn earlier in the file as @DavidCarlisle suggested, though, because the file is basically a tikzpicture, which doesn't seem likely to work.

@cfr \dpthimport is from the external library.
@cfr Can you make a minimal example?

@DavidCarlisle I guess for the expl3 drivers I also need to adjust rotation in XeTeX (same problem of tracking links): I'll work on this and commit later

@UlrikeFischer Just managed ...
\documentclass [12pt] {article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{hobby,external}
\tikzexternalize
\begin{document}
\begin{tikzpicture}[Hobby externalise]
\draw (0,0) [curve through={(1,1)}, save Hobby path=path]to (2,2);
\draw [xshift=1cm] (0,0) [restore and use Hobby path={path}{}];
\end{tikzpicture}
\end{document}
@DavidCarlisle @UlrikeFischer I guess that I need to switch Hobby's externalisation off if I'm using PGF's?

1:38 PM
@cfr possibly although I expect the package could detect this and write out something better, will look later

@cfr You somehow doing double externalisation, once with \tikzexternalize and once with [Hobby externalise].

From pgfcoreexternal.code.tex:
            \if@filesw
{%
\toks0={#1}%
% believe it or not, but the
% \def\dpthimport{...}\dpthimport *makes* a
% difference! In ensures any occuring ##' characters are properly expanded to #'.
\immediate\write\@auxout{%
\noexpand\def\noexpand\dpthimport{\the\toks0}\noexpand\dpthimport}%
}%
@cfr ^^^^^

1:55 PM
@egreg -- the author of the pgf documentation could use some spelling review. (also, probably, just typing practice.)

@UlrikeFischer I was using Hobby's to speed compilation while working on the pictures individually, but I'm externalising pictures as whole pictures once included into the main document. Since Hobby discusses both kinds of externalisation without mentioning any incompatibility, I didn't realise this would be problematic. And \HobbyDisableAux can't be used to switch it off globally, either. I have to get all of the Hobby externalises out of the TikZ code, it seems.
@egreg Which is, yes, where the problematic \defs in my .auxes comes from ....

@cfr btw the main problem is not the missing \ExplSyntaxOn, but that the writing introduce spaces: you get \tl _gclear_new:c instead of \tl_gclear_new:c in the aux. But I don't know what triggers the writing to the aux, you don't get it with normal pictures.

@DavidCarlisle This would be fantastic, since it seems not possible to turn Hobby's off globally.

@UlrikeFischer The space is caused by the lack of correct tokenization ....

@UlrikeFischer Ah, which is why it complains about \tl in isolation?

2:00 PM
@JosephWright I know, but this means that injecting an \ExplSyntaxOn in the aux as suggested by @DavidCarlisle earlier won't help.

2:23 PM
@cfr Yes. You can use \pgfkeys{/pgf/images/aux in dpth=false} to disable the writing to the aux-file. (You need to empty/delete the old dpth file to).

2:37 PM
@cfr which will avoid the error but also no longer write the hobby code to the aux-file (no completly unexpected as you the compilation is done with a different jobname) so probably no really useful.

Had a barbecue. :) I wonder if @AlanMunn prefers a typical American BBQ or a gaúcho one. :)

@DavidCarlisle no :)

2:55 PM
@PauloCereda what's the difference?

@DavidCarlisle Hopefully 2e driver updates make sense: now working on reordering the expl3 ones (again)

@Moriambar I will leave that to Alan. :)
@DavidCarlisle: 8 days to Portugal

@PauloCereda do you need any help with the language?

@DavidCarlisle I might need somre help, actually. :) My regionalism might put me into serious trouble. :)

@JosephWright I'll try to get an update into graphics. I'm wondering if should allow an explicit 0 as in \scalebox{0}{...} (for drivers where it doesn't blow up it will do something and if it does blow up it's clear why) but not allow a non-zero scale factor to be so small it is zero if coerced to a number...

3:07 PM

@Moriambar This is a very complex thing to answer, partially because "American BBQ" has a lot of regional varieties. Although the best American BBQ is not really a home BBQ because it requires hours of slow cooking.

@AlanMunn Sorry for leaving you in the eye of the hurricane. :)

@PauloCereda :)

@Alan: in 8 days, Madeira. :)

@Moriambar Gaúcho BBQ is extremely good and very simple: just lots of excellent meat cooked over charcoal. And if you go out for it, then the meat just keeps coming and coming until you are completely stuffed. This, I suspect would not be considered a good thing in Italy. Of course since you don't like red meat, I think you wouldn't like it at all.
@Moriambar Classic American BBQ is very different, and comes in two main types, roughly (South) Eastern and Western. In the East, pork is the main meat of choice but in the west (especially Texas) beef is the meat of choice. And for both, ribs (slow cooked for hours until the meat falls off the bone) are king.
@Moriambar And then there's the sauce debate, which is like emacs vs. vim.

3:15 PM
@AlanMunn :set sauce-mode on

@Moriambar So in conclusion, both very good, but not really comparable.
@PauloCereda You really have nothing to fear. :)

@PauloCereda (eat 'duck)

@AlanMunn ooh I seew what you did there
@DavidCarlisle oh no

@AlanMunn BBQ tofu, tempeh and vegetables are very, very good. The coop store I lived near in North Carolina did excellent vegan/vegetarian BBQ on their front lawn.
(They did meat on a separate grill. I don't know what that was like.)

@cfr No comment. :)
@cfr Were you at UNC?

3:21 PM
@cfr ooh misoshiru

@UlrikeFischer Commenting out the Hobby externalise occurrences in all the relevant places seems simpler ...

@AlanMunn here we're more like of a gaùcho style, pork-only, sometimes there are ribs but rarely they're cooked that long. But sometimes they are cooked really long. I do like some kind of pork sausages which are done in bbqs, but I eat a little in bbqs so they're good for my health. Sauce debate is easier here: no sauce.

... at least until @DavidCarlisle comes up with something.
@AlanMunn Yes. CH.

@PauloCereda all you need to know:

3:23 PM
@cfr Me too for a year.

@AlanMunn thanks a lot

@DavidCarlisle ooh :) Alan quoted this very song too. :)
@egreg mum included it too. :)

@PauloCereda ?

@cfr it's a tofu soup, from Japanese cuisine. I love it. :)

@AlanMunn Ah. I was there much longer.
@PauloCereda <3

3:24 PM
7 mins ago, by Alan Munn
@PauloCereda You really have nothing to fear. :)

@AlanMunn oh yes:-)

@DavidCarlisle I am expecting @Alan and I performing F&S live at TUG 2018. I just need a piano nearby. :)

@cfr I really liked it but it was a one year job.

@cfr It is certainly the best, mixing this two externalisation methods looks like an hell of a complication.

@DavidCarlisle I like how he corrected himself flat apartment because of the American audience. :)

3:30 PM
@DavidCarlisle my risky click of the day

@Moriambar it's worth. :)

@PauloCereda This is also a great song for zeugma.

@AlanMunn ooooh

@PauloCereda why are there laughs in background?

@Moriambar it's a live presentation.

3:35 PM
@PauloCereda yes but it's not funny at all

@Moriambar well, I find it very amusing, but it's another emacs vs vim battle. :)

@PauloCereda Well I guess is something like english humour which is a kind of humour that does not amuse me at all
@PauloCereda also everything is clearly better than vim even carving letters into stones
:P

@Moriambar well, can you carve letters on stones? :)

@PauloCereda it's hard but I did

@Moriambar :)

3:39 PM
@PauloCereda I haven't written poems, just some acronyms onto it.
@PauloCereda I'm thinking about how to name my new duck friend
Are there any names that ducks like/dislike?

@Moriambar Signore Papero. :)

@PauloCereda it should be "Signor" but ok

@Moriambar Pardon my Italian, my spoken attempts are better than my written ones. :)

@UlrikeFischer I just wish I could switch off Hobby's externalisation globally or have it just not do anything when externalising the pgf way. I realise I could enable and then disable Hobby's externalisation globally, but I was hoping to keep it local. And I'd still need to switch it while working on the pictures individually, so I'd still have to deal with keeping it out when compiling the whole thing.
That is, I hope @DavidCarlisle will come up with something :-).

@cfr looking

3:45 PM
@PauloCereda I'm always tolerant about foreigners trying to speak Italian and failing. It's Italians failing to speak their native language that infuriates me

@cfr: I sent you an email with Fubá. :)

@PauloCereda Truncation is quite difficult to master for non native speakers.
@PauloCereda “bel papero”, “bei paperi”, “bello zufolo”, “begli zufoli”. ;-)

@egreg oh my

@PauloCereda For very strange reasons, the adjectives “bello” and “quello” are spelled like the articles.

@egreg ooh

3:57 PM
@PauloCereda Also, truncation in words ending in “ore” (with tonic o) is quite common; so we'd say “professor Papero”. However, in southern Italy (especially Sicily) it's more common “professore Papero”.

@egreg interesting!
@egreg: I mentioned signore because of a song by Edoardo Vianello. :)

@cfr Sorry I'm not sure I understand your problem "Hobby externalise" is a simple boolean key and should be possible to set and unset it whenever you want. Similar with pgf-externalisation.
@DavidCarlisle Doesn't look easy. the dpth-file can contains lots of things and moving this to the aux-file under various catcode regimes could get messy.

No idea if this works in general but it doesn't give an error here (@cfr @UlrikeFischer)
\documentclass [12pt] {article}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{hobby,external}
\tikzexternalize

\makeatletter
\expandafter\ifcat\expandafter\noexpand\pgf@first\relax
% Ah -- the first token is a control sequence. It belongs to
% the .aux file.
%
\expandafter\ifx\pgf@first\pgfexternal@restore

4:14 PM
@DavidCarlisle The main problem is that pgfexternal redirects the whole aux-file of the image to the depth-file. This means that in this dpth there can be anything that can also be in a normal aux-file. E.g. \immediate\write\@auxout{\noexpand\def\noexpand\blub{Hello World}} in the tikzpicture will give a \def \blub {Hello World}. So a general \ExplSyntaxOn could do a lot harm. Have to go now, looking macbeth tonight ...

@UlrikeFischer yes so I see but probably in an image there should not be a lot of space tokens needed in the aux file I would guess?
@UlrikeFischer don't want to spoil the plot but don't trust macbeth

Does anyone know how the package descriptions on the CTAN website are generated?
Can a package author choose what to put there?

@Marijn they're chosen by the author and discussed and refined with the CTAN staff

@Marijn The CTAN team come up with something when first uploaded
@Marijn Normally they'll adjust the text if you request it

So they are not automatically generated from the documentation/the source?

4:29 PM
@UlrikeFischer It is just inconvenient. It isn't technically difficult - just humanly error-prone.

@Marijn No, how could they be?

@DavidCarlisle The anti-nazi scout girl is under a lynch threat :-( The police takes action to protect her

From the abstract of the documentation, for example, with some pdf-to-html magic

@Marijn Depending on the age of the docs and the target format(s), that could be very tricky!
@Marijn The original database was mainly written by Robin Fairbairns; since he retired from CTAN work the load has been spread across all of the current team

the reason for asking is tex.stackexchange.com/questions/368587 where the description on CTAN, which is the same as in the documentation of the selnolig package, contains invisible utf-8 SOFT_HYPHENs, and Mico claims this is not the fault of the package (and that I am accusing him that it is :) )
but if I understand correctly he provided this text manually to CTAN? using e-mail or a form or something?

4:33 PM
@Marijn selnolig is relatively new: presumably some copy-pasting somehwere
@Marijn Yes, probably, or the CTAN people simply wrote/copied something themselves

so, if the copy-pasted text contains invisible hyphens, and the text is copied from a pdf generated by (lua)latex (with fontspec), then latex has generated these invisible hyphens, right?

@DavidCarlisle Well it is used for labels, so references could look odd. Imho one should look nearer at the  \pgfkeys{/pgf/images/aux in dpth=false}  and check what happens with the hobby code with it.
@DavidCarlisle ;-) and also not his wife.

@UlrikeFischer yes, probably.
@yo' sorry to hear that

@DavidCarlisle I don't know whether that's a safe assumption. My .dpth files are pretty boring, but I don't know that has to be the case.

@Marijn they are added dynamically by the site to allow page size changes
@cfr it worked for all my test case(s)......
@Marijn no they are created by javascript implementation of tex's hyphenation algorithm:-)

4:39 PM
@DavidCarlisle I now really pray she'll be ok.

@DavidCarlisle I see it now, oh wow :D that is so not html-like

@yo' oh my!

@PauloCereda yes :-( So far it's only on some shitty internet discussions but still

@Marijn I think you will see it more and more html/css is encroaching on traditional tex typesettiing areas. I first saw this here tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2014/03/16/New-Hyphenation

@DavidCarlisle Would it be possible to get Hobby to detect PGF externalisation and not try to do the save thing in that case? Obviously, a perfect solution would allow combining the two methods, but @UlrikeFischer seems to think that may not be really possible. In that case, the second best thing would be if Hobby could just ignore Hobby externalise etc. If it were expl3, I'd think maybe of making Hobby externalise a .meta rather than .bool_set key and set the boolean only if not ...
... pgf externalising. But, sadly, it is pgfkeys which are part of the dark arts.

4:46 PM
@cfr Should be easy.

@UlrikeFischer with .code?
@DavidCarlisle not .meta, of course.

@cfr it's a turing complete language. anything is possible but I know nothing about this code at all, I just made the above by adding some tracing and staring at the log then working back from there:-)
@cfr and I've never actually used any of this externalize stuff (or tikz:-)

@cfr I don't know yet and I'm on my way out, but it should be easy. Hobby externalize is a simple key.

5:07 PM
ooh Bender B. Rodriguez is here
Je suis Napoleon
@gman: hi!

5:18 PM
@PauloCereda Je suis un penguin.

@Johannes_B ooh

PC users: I need to buy a PC laptop, but I know nothing about them at all. Criteria: real HD (not SSD) (because I need a lot of space), sturdy/reliable (will be used in the field). Also, how much memory is usually needed for Windows 10, plus regular apps?

@AlanMunn Windows? first flaw :-)

@AlanMunn Stay away from windows. You can run Linux on a perfectly polished piece of stone.
Sorry

5:23 PM
@Johannes_B This is non-negotiable, unfortunately.
@Johannes_B If I had free choice, it would be 'stay away from PCs'. But it's not. :)

@AlanMunn I am just thinking about the Who smashing guitars. Is there a Windows aquivalent?
:-p

@Johannes_B the vast majority of people survive quite happily using windows, it's not as bad as you make out
@AlanMunn range is rather wide it just comes down to money really

@DavidCarlisle Well I need reliability over price I think. I'm used to Apple hardware which is pretty indestructible.
@DavidCarlisle But looking at what's out there there are way too many choices.

@AlanMunn with windows of course the hardware vendor isn't so constrained so you can get some box for 300 pounds from some manufacturer you've never heard of or get something with allegedly the same spec from a manufacturer you have heard of 1000, but the keyboard lasts more than a day... at work we always get dell or lenovo, the boy ended up with a HP last year, with 1TB hard disk and 225 SSD (better than my machine, but main selling point was a funky red backlight to the keyboard:-)

5:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle Yup: currently likely to be the next system for me

@DavidCarlisle Ok. Thanks. That was my impression. Any thoughts on minimum memory to run the OS and other apps nicely? Apple always low-balls their minimum memory requirements; they're never really enough.

@AlanMunn These days I'd suggest 8G, but I wouldn't be too worried with 4G if it's the configuration of a notebook you like otherwise.

@AlanMunn I have 8MB on this machine but it's win8 I'd probably get a bit more for win 10, (although M's win10 HP is 8Mb and can apparently cope with streaming pointless youtube videos with ease)

@AlanMunn I just bought a Lenovo laptop for about 300 USD only. 4 GB RAM and Intel Celeron processor. I prefer Windows because I want to use Office. =) Lenovo laptops are generally cheap and decent.

@DavidCarlisle 8MB? Hard-core machine!

5:45 PM
@DavidCarlisle ya mean GB right?

I leave the units to @JosephWright. 8 something

@JamesBond Which office? TSWNMNBMH?
2

@TeXnician Microsoft Office, lol.

@JamesBond Those people mentioning whole names (@ChristianHupfer) ...

@TeXnician 007 refers to the Federal Bureau Office of Investigation, better known as FOI ;-)

5:51 PM
@AlanMunn also it depends what you are doing, for me switching to an ssd saved me well over an hour every time I do a build, generating tens of thousands of small files is much quicker on an SSD (for more important than the processor spec, really)

@TeXnician My first PC in the mid of the 90s had 4Mb RAM ;-) I bought an extra RAM chip with 16Mb for 300 DM at that time. My 'new' machine has 16 GB ...

@TeXnician FWIW, I often prefer Microsoft Office to TeX, LOL.

@ChristianHupfer 640K....

All new PCs has at least 4 GB RAM, that is the basic minimum to run very well.

@DavidCarlisle 512K Mac Plus. :)

5:52 PM
@JamesBond Blasphemy!
3

@ChristianHupfer @JamesBond is a heretic!

@JamesBond Abjure your wrong religion or thou shalt never be allowed to come back in here ;-)

LOL

French election "results" in a few minutes...

Will Le Pen win because of Putin hacking?

5:59 PM
@JamesBond Hopefully not... We don't need this populist scum all over the world

Macron = The big macro in French?

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