TRPG General Chat

10:02 AM

Back when I was skimming Kickstarter for the Timely RPGery, I saw a lot of people in the exact same situation: One person had played a particular game or narrow set of similar games, and then designed their own system to fix all of the problems with RPGs.

Dec 23 '16 at 23:39, by BESW

"In most role-playing systems, the spell list is rigid and uninteresting, never magical." Let me stop you there, Kickstarter pitch.

Oct 9 '16 at 23:22, by BESW

> The Book of Tor has more options without sacrificing complexity. That's right, our classes are just as, if not more intricate than our competitors, yet also more abundant. You have much more free range to create a character, and to tell a story.

eimyr

"Sacrificing complexity" is clear evidence of getting the wrong picture.

BESW

Oct 9 '16 at 23:27, by BESW

I also like the one that says it's systemless, then lists four systems it supports and says you can vote for more systems if you back it.

Jan 4 at 4:34, by BESW

This Kickstarter advertises adventures usable with "any table-top system" by virtue of system-to-system conversion charts. I'd like to link them to our "scope of the RPG landscape" meta.

Skyler

@eimyr ok, im not seeing the point about chase sequences being highly situational. I'd say that they are situational in tabletop because they are usually poorly addressed. I'd expect most combat to actually end in chases (or retreats) if we were being realistic. Once you start losing a battle you're not going to stay there to die.

eimyr

@Skyler I don't think I said chases are highly situational, and if I did, I did not mean to. I meant that that saying it's a problem in "most RPGs" is a gross exaggeration, to the point of selective blindness.

Skyler

@eimyr how is it generally addressed? I've only got a limited palette of experience, though so far I've never seen it done in any 5e I've played

at least systematically

generally its been a pair of contested rolls, without much tension or fanfare

eimyr

10:13 AM

Particularly the "usually poorly addressed" is not something I agree with. Would you say it's poorly addressed in Fate family? In PbtA? In the myriad of indies?

@Skyler Ah, that's precisely the fallacy I'm pointing out. If you only play D&D, you can be under an impression that "most RPGs" have classes, d20 vs DC roll, saving throws etc. which is demonstrably false

Skyler

I'm still pretty new to the rpg scene but it seems like they dont get a quarter of the attention of actual combat

BESW

Well, for example, D&D 4e would probably use a skill challenge: a series of skill rolls, with each participant taking a turn, describing what they're doing to participate in the chase and rolling the appropriate skill against a DC set by the GM. The first "side" of the chase to get a target number of successes wins.

Skyler

also based off the questions I've seen posted

eimyr

That's true, D&D places huge emphasis on combat.

Skyler

@BESW this was roughly what i sketched out when i first started considering chase scenes for DMing

eimyr

10:15 AM

Sometimes to the detriment of other elements of the narrative.

BUT that's not evidence that other RPGs also do so.

Skyler

personally I like this guide I found more than what I had set up olddungeonmaster.wordpress.com/2015/01/17/…

eimyr

Take Cthulhu Dark. It says , and I quote the rules directly:
"If you fight any creature you meet, you will die. Thus,
in these core rules, there are no combat rules or health
levels. Instead, roll to hide or escape."

Skyler

so an rpg with no combat has chase mechanics

eimyr

yes

Skyler

id probably like to hear you elaborate more on fate

doppelgreener

10:18 AM

@BESW To this particular Kickstarter's credit, the developers did have experience with other systems, but it looked like it was just someone who had played D&D a few times and concluded every RPG was alike, which would draw ire and skepticism from anyone familiar with any game which has its origins in this century.

Skyler

since it seems like that may be closer to what i pictured you were getting at

JuneShores

Hi hi.

doppelgreener

@JuneShores Hi!!!

eimyr

Fate is a generic system, but I'd be foolish to talk about it if @BESW or @doppelgreener are nearby

doppelgreener

@eimyr You triggered my trap card! Fate isn't a generic system at all!

BESW

10:19 AM

Dogs in the Vineyard / The Princes' Kingdom would use the same betting mechanic it uses for every other kind of conflict, wherein you can escalate dangers and involve more things/people of value to you to gain an advantage if you're willing to risk them.

Skyler

handlebar batman is photogenic as heck

eimyr

@doppelgreener it's a generic system for creating interesting stories, with an adventure bend

better?

doppelgreener

@eimyr it's setting-generic, but has very strong inclinations about the kind of stories it should be telling, so to me that disqualifies it from having a "generic system" label (but that's fine, no harm, to me "generic system" is not a good thing)

BESW

@Skyler Fate would probably use the contest structure for most chases, which seems superficially like the D&D 4e skill challenge but is noticeably different because of the mechanics underlying it--for one thing, each roll has a four-point grade of possible situation-altering outcomes rather than D&D's binary pass/fail.

@JuneShores [wave]

eimyr

@Skyler PbtA is played like a freeform until specific conditions are met, when a Move is triggered. Moves are specific actions central to the genre and the kind of story the game is about, which force you to display a specific behaviour. The games using this system are usually small in scope and very focused.

BESW

10:22 AM

What's new?

doppelgreener

@BESW I just recalled: Eimyr has been running a Dogs in the Vineyard game. I created a character with "2d6 I'm a good cook" as a trait, which we thought might not be useful, and it turns out it has, indeed, never been useful so far. Until a couple of nights ago when someone attacked us with a hot saucepan. I decided if it was ever going to be used, this is the time. :D

eimyr

@JuneShores Yo

BESW

@doppelgreener That sounds like the GM throwing the player a bone.

JuneShores

I woke up today with a mighty need to make a Dragon Ball hack for Cortex Prime.

eimyr

@doppelgreener I imagine it will be hugely useful when you roll your massive Fallouts

doppelgreener

10:23 AM

@eimyr oh right......... [sweats]

eimyr

I hoped Jonah would die, but he didn't. Now let's see how you guys do

Skyler

I have a substitute character who is a veteran and cook in my 5e campaign, party loves to ask him to make them breakfast

eimyr

he rolled like 11 on 9d8 keep 2 highest

Skyler

7'8" 850 lb pink amphibian fatty who eats like a monster

doppelgreener

@JuneShores And it has been a joy reading your thoughts on it.

JuneShores

10:25 AM

Thanks, @doppelgreener.

Skyler

btw guys, anybody ever done anything like power-ups or transformations in 5e

eimyr

@Skyler I once played a Morts character who was a chef turned zombie hunter. He had a flamethrower called The Brulee and a number of kitchen puns as stunts. The group told me to get out when I wanted to give him Seasoned In Battle advancement

Skyler

not exactly polymorph perse

I'd say almost more like a magical girl powerup of sorts, limited duration though

@eimyr ha

BESW

@eimyr That was amusing.

Skyler

basically i am trying to think of something like a rage but instead for someone who casts spells

(5e)

doppelgreener

10:29 AM

@BESW And then you nearly brulee'd my character. :D

He was the only living member of the party, and your chef guy almost saw to changing that.

BESW

On fire is the official aspect of Fate.

eimyr

I love self-compelling. You should remember that if we're to play again.

doppelgreener

And it can even be used in good ways!

Erik

@Skyler the raging equivalent of a Wizard is sort of like a Sorceror, I guess. Less subtlety, more things exploding.

Skyler

@Erik so then how would you do a raging wizard, given that the goal is for a temporary spike in badassery for an otherwise studious character

eimyr

10:38 AM

@Skyler Rage for Wizards is generally called Wild Magic. Otherwise, if you want a full spellcaster who, when angry, turns into a monster and kicks your ass it'd be "Druid"

Erik

I'd temporarely replace his spell list with only explodey spells at increased power, probably. Forget everything you know; here, cast Fireball from a 1st level spell-slot for one minute.

Skyler

@Erik thats exactly what I was thinking tbh

Erik

Might work even better thematically if you use primarily cones and lines, so that the spells clearly trace back to the caster.

Skyler

@Erik yea, i was thinking chromatic orb

eimyr

Lvl 3: I cast a spell.
Lvl 7: I turn into a bear.
Lvl 12: I cast a spell then turn into a bear.
Lvl 17: I turn into a bear and then cast a spell.

Skyler

10:40 AM

potentially rolling a dice to determine element cast

i also was thinking that they gain some rage like bonuses, but every turn must cast a spell as an action, or make a wisdom saving throw to perform the interact action.

Erik

If you want the "uncontrolled power" feeling, I'd use the dice to determine the amount of energy, not the type. Casting Burning Hand and accidentally depoying a 120ft cone that incinerates the entire battlefield sounds more "uncontrolled" then not knowing if you'll freeze or burn a specific area.

Skyler

Hmm, I want to maintain a semblance of balance. This is an NPC companion of the PCs and a potential substitute character if two people who dont have characters show up (the pink vet is the primary substitute character)

but good point

Erik

Roll a die for which spell slot to use, then. Still balanced that way; if you don't have a slot available you use the highest type you still have left.

The magic will flow chaotically, then slowly sputter out and die as he runs out of slots.

Skyler

a predetermined level 1 spell isnt too much more powerful than a cantrip though by like level 5

its about the damage bonus a barbarian would receive, so if they are limited to one spell (of my choosing) unlimited casting for a short duration isnt ridiculous

Erik

You want to give unlimited casting? I was assuming it'd still require normal spell slots while raging

Skyler

10:51 AM

@Erik if it was 1 spell, like chromatic orb, by then its like +3 over something like firebolt, you know what i mean

2d10 vs 3d8

are there any balance issues with that?

OOOOOHHHH

I GET what you were saying

use 1st level spell slot

for a higher level spell

I like that actually way better then what i was talking about

and the finiteness is good

with that type of boost

Erik

Yeah. Something like
During the rage, your spell list is replaced by: Burning Hands, Fireball, Cone of Cold, <more explodey spells>
Whenever you want to cast a spell, roll a d6. You must cast the spell at that level, but you expend a spell slot 1 level lower. (Ie; roll a 5, cast any spell in a level 5 spell slot, but lose a 4th level slot off your sheet)

Skyler

thats pretty cool

Erik

And if you don't have a 4th level slot because you spent them and only a 3rd level remains; you have to use that, and the spell is cast as if it were a 4th level slot. So it's unpredictable, but it slowly drops in power as the rage goes on.

Skyler

i see i see

clap clap

doppelgreener

12:21 PM

What happens when u wear a green tie on TV 😭 https://t.co/gAohulqeck

Tweeted by McJesse on March 16, 2017 at 9:04 PM

trogdor

lol

NautArch

12:38 PM

it almost makes Spicer look like a good guy

so i finished converting my NPC to a Ranger-Hunter Conclave...and gotta say it's a pretty cool looking class

trogdor

@NautArch I don't see how it helps him at all XD

Erik

I didn't see it helping either...

trogdor

I don't imagine that treatment helping anyone

NautArch

12:54 PM

@trogdor @erik when you're as low as he is on my like scale, if I'm smiling you're improving.

Erik

Heh. I think he'd need to improve a lot before he could look like a good guy, though.

NautArch

I don't think it's possible. Not even in a bunny suit.

That no long rest question is rough. I wonder if the dm has a larger plan on mind or if they're just a dick.

Erik

Or just inexperienced

NautArch

or just don't understand the rules

doppelgreener

It sounded to me like a lack of experience, as well as not understanding the rest rules (or mistakenly understanding them from discussions around another edition). "This is totally realistic, and something I read about on the internet, and surely this is fun and thrilling!"

KorvinStarmast

1:17 PM

I think it's not understanding the rest rules. Our first 5e campaign it took us a while to go back and review the LR rules about attacks in the night.

Adam

1:40 PM

@NautArch Never assume malice what can be explained by ignorance.

Yuuki

To be fair, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

Adam

There is a corollary which goes something like "Never assume malice what can be explained by ignorance, but don't rule out malice"

But I don't feel that not assuming malice necessarily means that you are ruling it out.

godskook

There's an additional corollary that's not widely used:

Yuuki

> Don't eat fish for lunch at work.

godskook

"Never assume ignorance, what can be explained by intentional and reasonable decisions."

Yuuki

1:50 PM

> Passive Perception is always on. Its impossible to roll an active Perception check that is below your passive score. If you're rolling, its just to see if you can roll higher than your passive score.

Thoughts (5e)?

Miniman

Definitely not true.

godskook

Unrealistic.

Adam

Most certainly incorrect

eimyr

It's the best thing ever.

godskook

lol

Miniman

1:51 PM

If nothing else, you can have a passive Perception that is higher than you can possibly roll.

eimyr

I couldn't help myself.

In four lines we captured why internet is such a terrible place.

Adam

Next you'll be telling me that my passive strength is always on, so I'm just rolling attacks to see if I crit

godskook

I thought rule 34 covered that, @eimyr

Yuuki

Then why roll? "Roll Perception." "Nah, I'll just pretend I'm not really paying attention and use my Passive Perception."

eimyr

Please don't.

Yuuki

1:53 PM

@Adam Which would be a valid argument if Passive Strength was an actual mechanic.

godskook

What does "passive perception" mean exactly?

Yuuki

But you're just constructing a strawman.

diego

> A passive check is a Special kind of ability check that doesn’t involve any die rolls. Such a check can represent the average result for a task done repeatedly, such as searching for secret doors over and over again, or can be used when the GM wants to secretly determine whether the characters succeed at something without rolling dice, such as noticing a hidden monster.

eimyr

I'm really not trying to start an argument, but I think Perception rolls (and similar rolls along the lines of "roll to have fun") are awful.

Adam

@Yuuki I played in a game once where that would happen. A player took a feat to boost his passive perception to 20, and whenever we were told to make a perception check, his character would just bury his nose in a book and ask to use PP.

Yuuki

1:54 PM

@godskook 10 + WIS (Perception) modifier.

Not counting feats and such.

godskook

@eimyr, "rolls to have fun" could be used to decribe teh entire system.

Adam

@Yuuki Any ability check can be passive. So you are correct...for attack rolls it is a bit of a straw man. But you do have a passive strength ability check

doppelgreener

Actually, yeah, how is it possible to get an active perception roll beneath passive perception?

Aren't you treated as always perceiving at your passive perception score?

So if it's something beneath your passive perception score, you've already detected it and a roll is redundant.

If it's above your perception score to detect, and you're actually actively looking out for something, your roll is to see if you notice it now.

eimyr

"OK, I'll take a look, but, like, REALLY take a look."

Adam

@doppelgreener If you roll a 9 or lower, your active check is lower than your passive

doppelgreener

1:57 PM

@Adam Yes, indeed, and it does nothing, right?

I don't un-see the thing my passive perception said I already saw.

Adam

It's supposed to reflect the "Wait I thought I saw something! ...Nevermind, I guess it was nothing" moments

But as a player, you know that if there was a check, there was something to find. So you know you've missed something

Yuuki

I don't think you can argue that it's supposed to represent anything.

doppelgreener

So I guess that yes, I can roll beneath my passive perception, surely such a roll wouldn't change anything if it went below.

godskook

@Yuuki, if diego's rule quote covers what a "passive" perception check is, then that's only applicable in two situations:
1.DM wants the roll secret
2.When a PC does a task repeatedly.

Yuuki

@godskook I would argue that looking at things is a task I do repeatedly.

In fact, it's something I do almost constantly roughly two-thirds of the time I'm alive.

Adam

1:59 PM

twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/…

eimyr

@Yuuki How about ditching a system that even has Perception rolls (and other horribleness, like Initiative) and trying something else? Is that feasible?

Adam

Passive checks are supposed to be a DM tool, not a player tool

godskook

"repeatedly" in this context does not mean "a behavior I do often, context-lessly"

Adam

So why they are even on the player's sheet is beyond me

Yuuki

@Adam See, I didn't want to bring in Sage Advice because I know how a lot of people here feel about it.

godskook

2:00 PM

It means the same context, repeated until success.

Yuuki

But the reason why I'm asking is that it was recently brought up on Sage Advice.

Although during a podcast/audio thing.

Adam

I know, I didn't want to either. But it's an important window into what the developers were thinking. Especially with a mechanic like passive checks where it's really really hard to tell why you would ever make an active check sometimes

ShadowKras

I just got in, but let me say that Passive Perception is one of the worst ideas they had for 5ed as a whole.

Adam

Nobody knows what passive checks are really for, and every single interpretation of it has problems.

ShadowKras

Not the mechanic, but how they introduced and explained it.

It. is. bad.

Yuuki

2:02 PM

@Adam I'm trying to find the exact timestamp, but they said that you only roll Perception to see if you can beat your Passive Perception.

doppelgreener

@ShadowKras So the mechanic is OK, but the explanations of it could do with some work?

Adam

Who? Your quote? that is certainly not what rolling perception is for

ShadowKras

@doppelgreener how it should be used, who can use it, etc. Yes

the mechanic is fine, iv been using the same mechanic for pathfinder for years

Yuuki

@Adam Did you actually click through? The same Jeremy Crawford you're picking that tweet from.

diego

@Adam I like the AngryGM way of using passive rolls. He uses passive perception (and knowledge) for providing descriptions of rooms or monsters or whatever (basically 'You see [thing]' if [ability >= Y] 'You know [something] about [thing]', or 'You also see [other thing]')

ShadowKras

2:04 PM

whenever i want to roll something against the player without asking them to roll for it (and accept all the metagaming involved), i simply assume they are taking-10 whenever not actively using that skill and roll against that number as the DC for the check.

works wonders.

Adam

@Yuuki I got that tweet from this page: sageadvice.eu/2015/11/30/how-to-use-passive-checks

Which says nothing about rolling only to see if you beat your passive check

ShadowKras

But Passive Perception being something on the character sheet is the first bad idea they had.

doppelgreener

Ok so coming back to the original discussion point:

15 mins ago, by Yuuki

> Passive Perception is always on. Its impossible to roll an active Perception check that is below your passive score. If you're rolling, its just to see if you can roll higher than your passive score.

ShadowKras

Players shouldnt even have to be asked their passive perception, the GM should have those noted down.

doppelgreener

It seems to me the matter under discussion is this idea:

- Things around you have a perception score to notice them.
- If your passive perception is high enough, you automatically have already noticed them.
- You might try an active perception roll to see if you notice additional stuff that requires a higher result. So, if your passive perception is 10 and a doodad requires perception 15 to notice, actively rolling perception gives you a chance to notice that thing.
- You *can* roll beneath your passive perception (you *could* roll a result of 9) but it doesn't alter what your passive perception already let you notice.

To clear up a possible communication breakdown, active perception isn't tested against my passive perception (so it's not that sense of "roll to see if you beat your passive perception"). It's to see if you're noticing additional things you would have missed if you didn't take some time to actively search around.

Adam

2:12 PM

@doppelgreener That I can most certainly agree with

doppelgreener

So let's suppose this scenario. My perception modifier is +0, my passive perception is 10, my maximum active perception result is 20. I'm walking down a dark street:
- 5 perception: see the cat crossing the dark street.
- 15 perception: hear the argument going on in the nearby bar.
- 25 perception: realise there's someone following me. (They're very good at following people.)

When I'm walking down this street, I have already noticed the cat. I decide to do an active roll to see if there's any funny business around here: I could roll a 15+, and that means I notice that argument going on. I could roll a 3, but I've already noticed the cat, so if I do, nothing special happens - I just don't also notice the argument happening. I can never roll high enough to spot the person following me, but I was hoping I would do so if someone was!

Does all that make sense and seem accurate to the active/passive perception rules to everyone?

Yuuki

Okay, finally found the timestamp. He starts talking more in-depth about Passive Perception at 22:24 and talks specifically about rolling active Perception being only to see if you can get higher than your passive Perception at 24:00.

Adam

@doppelgreener I +1 this interpretation

Joshua Aslan Smith

@doppelgreener 100 percent agree correct

Yuuki

@doppelgreener Yeah, that seems to be my understanding and what the spirit of the original post was.

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:17 PM

@doppelgreener yeah good example

Yuuki

17 mins ago, by Yuuki

But the reason why I'm asking is that it was recently brought up on Sage Advice.

16 mins ago, by Yuuki

Although during a podcast/audio thing.

doppelgreener

Sweet. Those are also some nice intuitive rules, since I haven't read the D&D 5e passive score rules in years & was open to the idea I'd get something wrong.

Adam

@Yuuki I'm blind and missed it in the chat! Sorry about that :p

Yuuki

@Adam Clearly, you need a higher passive Perception :P

Adam

I will now go whip myself till I bleed from my eyes

good bye

doppelgreener

2:19 PM

Oooer.

No need for that!

Yuuki

So, departing from rules stuff, I have an idea for a cosmology.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Adam be careful remember its 40 lashes minus 1

so 39 lashes

I may be coming to chat with a workshop idea for some dungeon world stuff soon, Im super rusty at actually gming and making fronts

so I might need some help

Yuuki

The ancient Greeks knew, or at least strongly suspected, the world was round/spherical (i.e. not flat) and had actually performed calculations that got roughly close to the actual circumference of the earth.

Could they determine whether or not they were on the inside of a Dyson Sphere-like object?

diego

22

Q: How and when could a Dyson sphere civilization figure out the shape and size of their sphere?

Kinda inspired by the non-disappearing ship question, but I actually asked this particular question on an unrelated forum a few years ago. Reposting it here (well, paraphrasing, really, since I don't actually recall much of the original specifics) because I'm interested in the opinion of this par...

Anaphory

@Yuuki Not with that same argument, but positive curvature is consistent with the horizon and ships turning up top-first. The inside of a negative curvature would look different. (That's thinking hollow-earth, not Dyson-sphere size objects.)

Yuuki

2:32 PM

@diego Huh, I forgot about the shell theorem.

Oh well, it's D&D so I can just say "it's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain <EXPLETIVE>".

But the day/night cycle was definitely something I was considering.

Hmm... since it's D&D, I can use something other than a star as the thing at the center of the Dyson sphere.

And so for day/night cycle, it fades to darkness and slowly brightens in the morning rather than use sun shields.

diego

@Yuuki Does it fade at the same time everywhere inside the sphere, or is it acting like a lighthouse and spinning around?

Yuuki

@diego My first thought is the former. But the latter might have some more interesting theology-cosmology threads.

diego

Also there was a Hollow World Campaign Setting in a previous edition. If you can get your hands on a copy of that it might provide some ideas for how to set up some geography/ecology type things

Joshua Aslan Smith

@diego you instantly reminded me of the craziest batman comic Ive ever seen in which batman and robin go into a the hollow earth(our earth) and ride dinosaurs

comicsalliance.com/batman-odyssey-neal-adams-insane

doppelgreener

@diego Does it have secret lizard people?

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:45 PM

doppelgreener

@JoshuaAslanSmith this is incoherent

diego

@doppelgreener I don't remember, I have the box, but it has been years since I've looked at it. If you really want to know remind me later when I'm at home and I can look.

SPavel

@JoshuaAslanSmith What

doppelgreener

@diego it's alright, not important. was joking around a bit.

diego

@doppelgreener That's what I assumed, but figured I would offer just in case

doppelgreener

2:49 PM

@diego thanks. :D

Joshua Aslan Smith

@doppelgreener it has troll people with cornrow dreads

its entirely terrible and problematic on multiple thematic, literary, and execution levels

doppelgreener

that did seem concerning

and i was going to ask whether i should be concerned......

because that sounds like special varieties of racism

Joshua Aslan Smith

in non-fantasy racism fronts it also has batman using guns and bringing guns on purpose to things

giving guns to robim

its very unbatman

comics alliance has a series beasically making fun of/detailing its inanities and terribleness without you having to actually read it

doppelgreener

3:17 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith oh wait are we talking about the batman comic or that hollow earth campaign setting?

@JoshuaAslanSmith there are so many problems with this image.

so many.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@doppelgreener the batman comic that involves a hollow earth theory because the guy who wrote it is a hollow earth believer

all of my comments were about the batman comic

I have no experience with the hollow earth setting I was just commenting on how it reminded me of this batman comic with all of its craziness

godskook

"hollow earth believer"?

These people exist?

Yuuki

So do flat earthers.

And young earthers.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Hollow Earth

The Hollow Earth hypothesis proposes that the planet Earth either is entirely hollow or otherwise contains a substantial interior space. The scientific community has dismissed the notion since at least the late 18th century. The concept of a hollow Earth recurs many times in folklore and as the premise for subterranean fiction, fake news, and a subgenre of adventure fiction (A Journey to the Center of the Earth, At the Earth's Core). It is also featured in some present-day pseudoscientific and conspiracy theories. == Hypotheses == In ancient times, the concept of a subterranean land inside the...

AND dogpile

0

A: Can I make the Level Up move not require so much time without breaking the game?

The intent is that players level during a moment of rest and reflection This mirrors both the old school D&D feel that the setting is based on and many other fictional sources where the heroes catch a respite and train or think about what they've experienced and apply new ideas. Mechanically th...

godskook

3:35 PM

I can't decide if Hollow or Flat earthers are the dumber. On the one hand, gravity, photosynthesis and knowledge of how basic geology should satisfy anyone's concerns about the overall hollowness of the earth, but on the other, we've been to space, from far enough away to know for an absolute fact that the earth isn't flat.

Yuuki

@godskook Also, shell theorem would mean that even if there was a hollow earth, it certainly wouldn't have water or people.

godskook

The second conclusion of shell theorem is not intuitive to me.

I'd have expected gravity to be a net draw to the shell, not to cancel out completely.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@godskook usually if one believes in an extreme conspiracy one believes in multiple interlinked conspiracies

so flat earth types probably believe in the moon landing was a hoax as well

Yuuki

@godskook The shell is also on the other side of you. In fact, there is considerably more mass above your head than there is below your feet if you're standing on the inside of a shell.

godskook

@Yuuki, yeah, but gravity is proximity based. Distance is a factor here.

Not that I'm arguing the conclusion. I'm just saying its not intuitive.

Yuuki

3:44 PM

I'm saying it's intuitive if you think about the differences between standing on the outside of the shell and standing on the inside.

If you stand on the outside, you are pulled towards the shell because all of the shell is "below" your feet.

So you are pulled down.

Whereas if you stand on the inside of a shell, you are pulled "up" because most of the mass is "above" you.

godskook

@JoshuaAslanSmith, to believe the moon landing hoax requires assumptions about mass delusion on the order of assuming that one lives in a Matrix or similar.

Like.....the video footage of the moon landing could not have been faked at the time the moon landing happened. We couldn't have simulated the gravity, we couldn't have created rolls of film that big, etc, etc.

The hard facts are so difficult to deal with that you basically have to assume that the public record as a whole is conspiring competently to hide the truth.

Adam

Eyes have stopped bleeding, so I came back :p

What is our stance on reviewing homebrew? rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/99019/…

The querent is confused because they are looking at a complete homebrew revamp of the ranger

diego

4:05 PM

@Adam In order to avoid dog-piling would you be willing to ask them something like 'I see about 10 differences just looking at the table of contents, what exactly is it you are confused about?'

MadMAxJr

"I see as a ranger, you've chosen your favored enemy to be 'persons who use 'should' and 'of' incorrectly'..... I'm not sure that's a valid choice."

Adam

@diego Sure. I can do that

I saw that and was like "wait...rangers dont get find familiar, do they?"

spent the next 15 minutes making sure I wasn't missing some super secret 20th level ability or something that would give a beastmaster a familiar, and a companion

diego

I was doing pretty much the same thing, and was about to post a comment similar to your, but you beat me by a few minutes

CM_Dayton

4:23 PM

@MadMAxJr I see. What about "persons who use the word 'Literally' when they should use the word 'figuratively' or 'metaphorically' or 'not really' or literally anything else besides 'literally' " ?

eimyr

@MadMAxJr Luckily this choice is synonymous with "Aberrations"

Also, loose/lose people.

CM_Dayton

...and to/too/two people. And their/they're/there people. and...
Damn. Now we need a Grammar Ranger variant class. Sigh.

Adam

@CM_Dayton A new paladin oath maybe? "Oath of Grammar"

CM_Dayton

The Grammarians were always a powerful, if unpopular, Paladin order.

Chemus

We don't need to be popular, merely respected. Feared is OK in a pinch.

Yuuki

4:36 PM

@Adam I mean, you could re-flavor Oath of the Crown...

CM_Dayton

Is the Blue Book of Grammar your holy text?

Chemus

@CM_Dayton Any properly edited text is Holy to our Order.

CM_Dayton

:)

The Oracle

0

Q: How should the answers on the question about Throne card be handled?

This question about the Throne card from the Deck of Many Things has attracted three answers which all say the same thing. That is, all three answers are duplicates of each other. How should the Stack vote for these answers, and should the question be closed for attracting them? What is the norm...

discussion answers specific-question closing-questions up-votes

CM_Dayton

Then there's the berserker who only goes into a rage after a spoken grammar fail. "Oooh! Split infinitives make me SO MAD! AAAAAAAARRRRRR!!!" Though, obviously, they can't speak in their rage state; that might make them use bad grammar by accident. You know, in the heat of the moment.

Chemus

4:45 PM

Re: the Oracle's Post there, I laughed out loud when I saw that it was marked as a duplicate. (He apparently did so himself...)

MadMAxJr

4:58 PM

And now I need to create the clan of grammatically incorrect goblins.

It will make one of my players clutch his ears and fall to the floor while the rest of the party is dumbfounded about what's killing him.

CM_Dayton

ROFL

But can you do that without making them all talk like Yoda?

Chemus

@MadMAxJr I kinda assumed that goblins' Common was commonly a bit broken already.

And I'd likely be the dying player

Were I in that game.

MadMAxJr

"Well now, warriors. You should of asked asked for mercy." "SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR MERCY, YOU AWFUL BEAST." And then the paladin launched a genocide.

CM_Dayton

5:14 PM

No atonement required. Totally justified.

MadMAxJr

"I believe Sarenrae would understand."

Says the paladin covered in blood from the throat down.

2

Chemus

@MadMAxJr *waist down. (goblins)

CM_Dayton

I'd have to play a rogue who spoke in constant run-on sentences that, while grammatically correct, were difficult to parse, thereby forcing the paladin to constantly review my statements to determine whether she or he needed to act out against me, or whether my statements were innocuous to the Oath of Grammar.
Like H.P. Lovecraft's fiction.

Chemus

Best of the Paladin were a 3.5 Buomann

@CM_Dayton Or J.R.R Tolkein's...

CM_Dayton

Yes, but Tolkein's writing wasn't about driving people to madness. I felt Lovecraft was more appropriate to the discussion.

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:21 PM

@Chemus tolkien uses grammar

hes no corman mcarthy

CM_Dayton

Tolkien creates his own grammar!

Chemus

@JoshuaAslanSmith ...Lots and lots (and lots of lots and lots) of grammar...

Joshua Aslan Smith

do you have a specific example or examples of what you mean?

CM_Dayton

I bet the king of the Grammatically Incorrect Goblin horde likes to use words like "Bigly"

Joshua Aslan Smith

like are you referring to the grammar for quenya and such or do you mean his overall prose grammar style

Chemus

5:23 PM

@CM_Dayton FYI, I believe that Bigly was intentionally conflated w/ Big League. From the outside

@JoshuaAslanSmith I really just meant that reading Tolkein was a bit of a slog at times.

MadMAxJr

@Chemus That's what makes blood from the throat down even more unnnerving.

Chemus

@MadMAxJr [grumble] ...bloody paladins...

CM_Dayton

Vampires love bloody paladins.
But nobody loves bloody paladin vampires. Not even goths.

Chemus

Goths don't love anything, do they? Or am I confusing them for emos?

Yuuki

Goths love high vaulted ceilings.

And sacking Rome.

Chemus

5:31 PM

@Yuuki LOL (Chuckling quietly)

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Yuuki more the visigoths really

CM_Dayton

lol

Joshua Aslan Smith

insert other historical pedantry

Yuuki

The Ostrogoths played an important part too.

So technically all of the Goths sacked Rome.

Chemus

@JoshuaAslanSmith I will not!

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:33 PM

Everybody was doing it

all cool germanic tribes got in on the action

Adam

@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm sure every goth that didn't sack Rome was a poseur, so they all had to sack Rome to prove themselves to each other

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Adam Their goth-hood was questioned, they had to prove themselves

Adam

Though, much like today, they were probably all still accusing each other of poseur-hood, even after everybody got in on the sacking

Chemus

@Adam "sacking"...is that a euphemism?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Chemus are you not familiar with the historical term?

CM_Dayton

5:37 PM

I bet they didn't really sack Rome at all. They just left home for a month, drank lots of beer, and came home with tourist claptrap and told their wives how brave they were.

Yuuki

Well, modern-day Goths do sacking of a different kind.

Chemus

@JoshuaAslanSmith ...I was acting like a 12 yr old boy... that's all

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Chemus understood

Chemus

@Yuuki That's modern!?

Yuuki

@Chemus I mean, from a holistic anthropological standpoint, 10 or 20 years ago is still modern.

Chemus

5:42 PM

But that was ages ago! ;)

Ryan

@SevenSidedDie don't know how strict this community is but answers are back in comments on here; which is extra fun since you commented not to lol - rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/98875/…

CM_Dayton

15 years is like a dozen internet ages.

It's all about that unit of measure.

Ryan

ps Wow, that person is going to hit the hundo with that answer

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