1:49 AM
You know I'm invested in Chem.SE when I'm willing to type up a mammoth thing like this with no rep on the line at all. <grouse> Stupid fun community anyways.
10

In his answer to a question about crossing out units in dimensional analysis, Loong notes that the \cancel{} LaTeX command can be enabled in MathJax by using \require{cancel} at the start of a MathJax block. What other commands/features can be enabled in MathJax through the use of \require{}, or...

FINALLY, it's done.
@M.A.R. @Martin-マーチン @Jan @mhchem @ortho You all may be interested to take a look at the final product, since you engaged at various points in the process.

Hey @hBy2Py

Hiya!

How much do you know about latex formatting
I'm trying to make an array with a partial row, but I can't figure out how to implement it on the SE
I found the function \cline{}, but it won't let me use it :(

I know a fair bit, but most of my effective table wrangling skills don't apply to the subset of latex that MathJax supports.

Argh

1:54 AM
Yeah, it's really frustrating
All it implements is \begin{array}, I think
Not even \begin{tabular}, and definitely not \begin{tabu}

:|
What I'm trying to do isn't even that crazy
Oh well

Others on here might know more, though
@Jan or @penta could be good resources.

Yeah Martin and Loong seem to know a lot

<nod>
Or, they might just be equally frustrated at the limited subset of latex that the site supports. :-P
!!flip/Limited LaTeX Support

(∿°○°)∿Ꞁᴉɯᴉʇǝp Ꞁɐ⊥ǝX Snddoɹʇ

1:57 AM
you mean like \usepackage{multicolumn}?

\usepackage{} isn't supported either :/

I have no idea, this is why I have summoned you, oh genie.

I know very little tbh
I have many opinions and few facts.

Ahhk.
Penta doesn't know, @ringo.
;-)

You say opinions, I say alternative facts

2:01 AM
For example, here is an opinion: MathJax is bad
but even the Markdown features here are borked...references and footnotes don't work...that's Stack Exchange's fault
we could argue that a lot of this functionality is not the domain of MathJax, since "MathJax isn't LaTeX", but we really want this: manuels.github.io/texlive.js

@pentavalentcarbon Mighty macaroni that's slow.

@ringo you'll have to use nested arrays. It's ugly, ineffective, and tedious, but the only way.

because JavaScript is slow and bad

@pentavalentcarbon Good thing most of the Internet is built on it.

The goal here is to support rudimentary maths support so that you don't have to revert to Unicode and manual stacking. Everything else is overkill fit normal and new users

2:17 AM
@Martin-マーチン Oooooo
Ok

And don't forget, other sites are way worse with markup and interlinks...

thanks!!!

@hBy2Py lucky for you I have another opinion: the Internet is very slow and mostly sucks...most websites are bad; this is connected to the prevalence of JavaScript IMO

@ringo my advice: if it's not strictly necessary, avoid it...

@pentavalentcarbon Craptacular Pile of Programmatical Mishmash™
Its gradual agglomerative buildup over many years is quite evident.

2:19 AM
You can look at my post in the first sandbox, I've typeset a periodic table there. It's not pretty and it was a lot of work...

@Martin-マーチン To some, that sounds like a challenge!

@Martin-マーチン You are right, it is ugly
I'm not going to continue with it

Well... You can try... Btw. @ringo you could always ask such questions on meta.chem if you're stuck. It's not on topic at Tex.sx, because MathJax is not run by LaTeX

Oh I didn't know that
Thanks

2:22 AM

> And this is why, ladies and gentlemen, you don't use browser engine to render rich UI.
@hBy2Py uhhhh.........?!

That is amazing. :-)

Haha that's awesome

Renders fine here, Win7 Chrome

I don't like the internet very much
this is Firefox Nightly on a Mac
Chrome is fine, must be a Firefox problem
oh my this whole meta post is totally broken...

2:28 AM
That post would probably be a good MathJax stress test.

so it starts getting messed up after this and just propagates downward:

> Much the same effect can be achieved with the \bbox command. As with \bbox, the output is sometimes ill-behaved, especially when adding borders:

@pentavalentcarbon as far as I can see it's fine in the app

@pentavalentcarbon This all would maybe be good to edit into the posts?

I am too lazy to quit Firefox Nightly and try Firefox but it works fine in an ancient Safari

Not sure if that would be overshooting it, Brian, there are oh so many browser options out there, it's almost impossible to include all... And it might change quickly

2:33 AM
<nod>
And, oh wow, it is so bad on regular Firefox here.
Definitely is the bordered \bbox that's doing it.

There should be - maybe - a disclaimer about MathJax in general...

I thought it would be the Nightly doing it but you're right

Example:

Yes, a warning like "if you know enough about LaTeX to try \bbox then you are responsible for fixing any messes you leave behind"
3

Lol -- By writing this post up I've apparently opened Pandora's \bbox
4

2:36 AM
Have a star for that!

@hBy2Py UGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The joke just writes itself, I couldn't not.

The potential of MathJax to break things is awesome... It's like a ticking time bomb
2

It's a fine example of the fragility of digital systems which, while in theory deterministic, give the appearance of random behavior due to the near infinitude of subtle different fiddly bits they contain.

5 hours later…
7:58 AM
@hBy2Py Nice. The "may" in "other sites may load an older version of mhchem" is not 100% correct. It is definitely a "will". IF you use \require{mhchem} AND we still have MathJax v2.x (I guess, for a couple of years, we will) AND no other mhchem version is loaded THEN this will load the "legacy" version on mhchem.

@hBy2Py Can't write this twice

8:19 AM
Gah, I meant upvote.
Stupid brain

3 hours later…
11:24 AM
@M.A.R. "Won't write this twice" would be reasonably accurate, though.

@hBy2Py Nah, ''can't upvote'' is correct
And accurate

@mhchem Edited. Look ok?
@M.A.R. If the SE database should hock a hairball and this post and all its answers were to disappear, I would be very anguished but no way in hell would I write all that up again.
Probably.

3 hours ago, by M.A.R.
Gah, I meant upvote.

I know. I was hijacking your brain fart to make my own polemical statement.
Cranial pneumatic appropriation

11:55 AM
LOL
-1

enter code hereenter code heresession_start(); enter code here$username=""; enter code hereif($_SESSION['username']==true){ enter code here $username=$_SESSION['username']; enter code here$conn=mysql_connect('localhost','user','passwd') enter code here`or ... @M.A.R. amazing that apparently they even made an account for that answer 12:28 PM @hBy2Py Well, erm, yes. Almost. Kind of. I am okay with the text. The full story is: I created a new mhchem version. This is used at Chem.SE (and was explicitly loaded). For the \require command, my new version will be loaded with MathJax v3. Currently we are at v2.7 and we did not want to secretly change the behavior. So for the time being, \require will load the legacy version. BTW, You don't need to link to my comments/chat messages. Just do the proof yourself (test that \require loads a different version than Chem.SE uses) and you could claim the fact without citing me, which would make the sentence much easier to read :-) 1:13 PM Hey @Mart what do you say about a probably one-time chat event to edit/close away homework-tagged questions? CC @Ortho @Jan @hBy2Py @Penta @DSVA @Gan @Hexa @Loong @Zhe @Not @Mith @Mel Damn that was a lot of people to ping for a quiet chat @Chemobot 1:26 PM Please don't spam ping. If you do it again I will... More seriously, we only need to clear questions that have homework as their only tag, i.e. the same thing we did with TRE 1. I haven't checked how many there are. @orthocresol 24 non-closed questions with [homework] I was thinking of more like a process that a room in SO, SO Close Vote Reviewers, does when burninating a tag Mass-moderating questions while they remove the tag. Lots of pain, and a slow process. But it's awesome 1:44 PM @M.A.R. I would be for that I haven't participated much in editing/meta-related activities yet and I figure I should get started on that should I just generally be editing HW questions, or did you want to have this all be done at the same time as an event? can you point me towards a meta thread describing what I should do with HW posts? 2:12 PM @M.A.R. Ah, okay. I know of the existence of SOCVR, but I am not too acquainted with it. How do you guys decide which questions to look at? 2,800 questions may be a bit too formidable Score? -2 I am God. What I say takes place. Bow to me puny humans. Be scared of me. For when my angels will come the righteous will be victorious. This is one of my deepest secrets. And you shall obtain the answer only by hardest work. Um... @M.A.R. I am currently more concerned with doing the reaction tag. Sorry from that, I'm still on holiday, so I'll be thinking about it from Monday on again. Also, we need to decide what to cull in the process. I'm talking about those questions that get answers with pity up votes... @M.A.R. what about the closed ones that won't get deleted? 2:51 PM @M.A.R. just FYI, if I do a search for Mith that shows up highlighted for me ;) 1 hour later… 3:58 PM Hi 2 I want to know the configuration and hybridisation of the compound, hexaaquavanadium (III) ion that is$\ce{[V(H2O)6]^{+3}}$. In this Vanadium is in$+3$oxidation state its electronic configuration is$\mathrm{[Ar]4s^0 3d^2}$. So there are$3$more empty$\mathrm{d}$orbitals. Hence the hybri... Can anybody help me in this . What is still unclear? @Mithrandir Shit . . . Sorry @gannex Same time as an event 64 What happens, or what should I expect, when I ask the community to remove ("burninate") a tag from the system? Is there an established process for the community to follow? Return to FAQ Index CC @Ortho @penta @Mart Fixed it 4:29 PM We can skip a lot of formalities there though as there are much less people and no one wants to abuse anything, really. I'll wait for a couple of days for further possible pings to that message and then write up a meta post. Current status of responses: Wanting to get something done @orthocresol Yep, and we'll ignore dupes, closures and downvoted ones. Hmm, this gives 1691. Only 30 results for questions with more than 10 votes. Question; should we make another chatroom for the event(s)? If someone wanted to come to the room during the event and talk about the topic, Haikus are awesome / Chemistry's even better / So pull up a chair, they're technically in the right might be a good idea to have a separate chat sorry, I havne't been paying too much attention to what yo've been saying; but I'll come back later and see Sure, no deadlines here I have to think of the process, and telling people what they need to know 4:52 PM O.o Star rain 5:11 PM I.... ew. 0 I'm looking for a chemical hardener that I can add to breastmilk to turn it into a stone. I have seen others use one but they will not share what they are using. In their video they add about 1ml of secret solvent to 15ml of breastmilk and heat it on low heat for a couple minutes. It hardens comp... @hBy2Py LOL, I'm gonna write a meta post about these. @M.A.R. Are you thinking of questions only tagged ? Like ortho said? @hBy2Py This one event will be about the [homework] tag. It might metamorphosize to TRE II, and it might not. But if you mean that that's going to be the only filter, no 41 mins ago, by M.A.R. http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/search?tab=votes&q=%5bhomework%5d%20is%3aq%20‌​closed%3ano%20duplicate%3ano%20score%3a1.. I'm looking for suggestions on how to boil it down to 1000 or less though, without harming it much. Are you removing questions which have homework tag ? Not wholesale 5:21 PM @TrYiSCheM We're getting rid of the [homework] tag, and getting rid of some of the questions it's on as well. But I need to think of an efficient process Mar many questions are asked under category of homework tag @TrYiSCheM Yep. If you remove them all , then the progress of site become slow Well, we're wanting to tighten the definition of what homework is/isn't, I think. Too much gets closed as "homework" that isn't let me see Yeah many questions are closed So what would be the new changes to be applied 5:27 PM The word "homework" came before everybody had a computer in their home. AFAIK we're still ironing that out Yes skull What other sites have done such as mathematics.se , physics.se All the other sites are struggling with the definition of "homework." @TrYiSCheM They have struggled and given up on it mar on what skull so no one has proper definition 5:31 PM Not that I know of. It's a tough question. may be Opinions vary a lot. and egos get in the way yeah Not to mention some institutions calling this site a cheating website. why 5:36 PM Finding answers to "homework" questions :-) so whats cheating in that Some students don't know about this site. Actually I think they say these comments because they are jealous . skull what are your views I'm still on the fence. 5:39 PM Both sides have valid arguments. ohk !!beer Let's have a beer :-) Tbh I am getting tired of homework in general. :/ I don't know whether it's possible to pull up stats about RemoveAbandonedClosed, but I'd wager that a large proportion of homework questions that come in end up as that. 5:49 PM @orthocresol Probably it's SEDE-able Perhaps. However, I don't think there's much that can be done about that. There are no barriers to asking. I've thought about trying to ask some (hopefully) more interesting questions myself. One day I will get along to it. haha I'm reading Weinhold's NBO book now. It's germinated a couple of potential questions in my mind I guess there is not much point in complaining. If I want something to happen (question quality to improve), then I have to try and do something about it. The really frustrating thing with a lot of these basic questions is the feeling that there has to be a duplicate question somewhere around. But unless I've happened to have interacted with one, it's such a pain to try to track anything down. So, if it's a pain for me as an established user, it's only going to be more of a pain for someone who isn't familiar with the site or with the SE search functionality (ping @ortho) 6:05 PM The good news is if you can't find it and then answer it, there's definitely a duplicate for next time. @M.A.R. 78 questions right now tagged only with : @hBy2Py 24 of which are non-closed But good start. We could break it down pair-tag by pair-tag? Hmm. First non-closed only tagged with homework, then closed only tagged with homework. We'll probably just vote to delete ones with a negative score, unless the answer has a score of more than or equal to 3. Some of the closed ones, if they have good answers, can be reopened. Of course, I haven't taken a look at any of them. Yeah, pretty much. 6:39 PM Query for questions with exactly two tags, and : Then, if people want, we can continue with tag pairs, as you said Brian Yay! Didn't spell you as 'Brain' I spell myself as 'Brain' a lot. :-) eternal typo Query for questions with n tags: , , and n-2 others: Queries bookmarked here: ### SEDE Queries for [homework] Questions 39 mins ago, 38 minutes total – 17 messages, 3 users, 1 star Bookmarked 19 secs ago by hBy2Py @Mart, I've gotten started with SEDE, and now my productivity has crashed. HALP. @M.A.R. I think these three queries should allow reduction of the task to highly manageable chunks. Relatively few of them return more than 100 questions, at least in my fiddling @M.A.R. Mm, should I revise those queries to not return dupes, closures or downvoteders? @hBy2Py Only closures. Dupes is included in the closure I think 1. Edit questions with the only tag being homework which are non-closed 2. Edit questions with the only tag being homework which are closed but don't have a negative score. 3. Delete vote all the questions with the only tag being homework and which are closed but not ones with an answer score of at least 3. 4. Delete vote all the questions with [homework] that have a negative score unless there's an answer with a score of at least 3. 5. If all the above was successful, proceed to use tag pairs as Brian suggested 6:59 PM I wonder. Would the caesium anion be a good nucleiphile? It is very large. 7:42 PM 2 I don't know if it's some visionary dude coming up with a revolutionary idea, some lunatic who wants to prove sciencez is wrong and water can be a fuel, a curious "chemistry layman"1 who aims to understand how glues work, or someone in dire need of a miracle worker substance. They come up with so... 7:58 PM When we're a few years further into the site, I would probably make a 'Memes of Chem.SE' meta post @StevenStewart-Gallus If you could somehow isolate it stably, yes, probably. That would be really hard to do, though. @M.A.R. SEDE queries are updated; see what you think. They don't fully cover your seven step program, though. Think? I never think. I just spit ideas. @M.A.R. How do you delete vote a question? @hBy2Py Sounds good. It doesn't cover my seven steps? It seems to do so tho'. The only little tweak being we'll start with 2 tags, then 3, then 4 etc. Well, right now they're edited so that they only return open questions 8:04 PM @hBy2Py Badger mods or 10k rep users The first steps I have another query for. @M.A.R. Pompous hi-rep chumps and their fancy privileges. I miss beta when 2k was enough. I felt like a God. Aaaand, now I get the joke about "1,3-feeds" A bit late, but better late than never 8:09 PM \o Look who's here Who ? Oh I see him now, he looks really nice :D Someone who likes to plenken Plenken is a German typographical term for the insertion of inappropriate spaces before a punctuation mark. Its counterpart is Klempen, the incorrect omission of a space after punctuation marks. == Etymology == Plenken is derived as a borrowed word from the English blank. Its antonym klempen combines plenken and klemmen ("to clamp"), exchanging the K and P in such a way as to suggest both phonetically and orthographically its relationship and opposite meaning. Both are internet coinages, dating from Johannes "Jödel" Leckebusch's introduction of plenken on MausNet in 1988 and now widely used on... I'm French, I have an excuse :D @Hippalectryon OK, now get back to work and fixing Chemobot What's wrong with chemobt except unicode and the scholar command ? 8:12 PM Also some feature-requests @hBy2Py Probably easiest to bring it to mod attention, since you need multiple 10k's to delete a question. And not all that many 10k's check the review queue too often (I know at least Jan, Klaus, ron do). I'm sure many more do but not so regularly, hence it can take a while. @orthocresol Ok, <nod>, so if there's going to be deletion happening then we'll really want mod involvement in this grand event of ours. Yeah. I think the fastest way would be to do it in a separate chat room, which has already been set up by @M.A.R. and ruined by me. It's not full ruin. Just half-ruin And I was thinking it would be a draft for me to poop my thoughts in for the event The official event chat would've been different. @M.A.R. I've been away for centuries so I'll need a recap of the feature requests :-) 8:16 PM But we can change it to the event chat if you want @Ortho Yes. I thought as much, from your room name. Let's keep it separate @Hippalectryon Huh, now I can't think of stuff I just wanted to make a joke about ruining your room haha Ask @Jan He's been absent lately. Oh crap, prolly doing real work! @M.A.R. e_e 8:26 PM @M.A.R. SEDE queries updated to allow custom inclusion/exclusion of open/closed questions. Jun 15 '16 at 13:00, by Jan !!cake Jun 15 '16 at 13:05, by Jan @Jan @Hippa! ! Pinging himself. Then we say organic chemists aren't crazy. How many of you have encountered a previous chat message of yours and suddenly have gone 'OH SHIT HAVE I REALLY SAID THAT'? @orthocresol done :D !!cake 8:40 PM Well, that'd do. 8:55 PM @Hipp another image @Chemobot Oh man, I don't want to laugh at the person who did this, because I've made worse cakes myself. @M.A.R. I've already edited the cake command to show decent cakes :P !!cake !!cake 9:02 PM @orthocresol Either you're my sock, or I'm yours. I'm going for the former, because I think I have a fully functional separate brain. Get out of the internet, sock. Or you can be my friend, because you and I think a lot alike. I don't like this possibility. Neither do I. 9:57 PM 0 Smith and Martell obtained a series of data for the binding of trivalent lanthanide ions,$\ce{Ln^3+}$, with various carboxylic acid ligands (amongst them the well-known EDTA).1 A graph of the formation constants is attached ($K_\mathrm{f} = [\ce{Ln(edta)-}]/[\ce{Ln^3+}][\ce{edta^4-}]\$): Due t...

So, it only took me a year or so to post this thing that I had been wondering about.
Expect to see another question from me in 2018...

10:43 PM
I feel bad for breaking the cake theme here, but -- why do we have ? 31 questions, really?

@hBy2Py Because all metals are silver, duh.
Silver-coloured, that is.
Seriously? No clue..